I think you played it fine
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Originally posted by bubbleking View PostRe value raising the river - whats calling me?
if anything villain 2 is the only one in the hand likely to have anything but i doubt he'd pay me off with KJ/K10
Raising river is less mad.
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Villain is 22/12/2 after 50 hands. No history. I hate when this happens. Is this way too wide a range to give him. I need about 38%. Is he shipping hands like AQ, KQ here or even AJ? Or is he much more likely to have TT+
Board: Ts Jc 4d
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.422% 43.78% 00.64% 338088 4942.50 { AKo }
Hand 1: 55.578% 54.94% 00.64% 424227 4942.50 { TT+, AQs-AJs, KJs+, QJs, JTs, AQo-AJo, KJo+ }
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No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
CO ($73.30)
Hero (BB) ($100)
UTG ($198.22)
Button ($113.25)
MP ($20)
SB ($112.38)
Preflop: Hero is BB with K, A
2 folds, CO bets $3, 2 folds, Hero raises $9, CO calls $7
Flop: ($20.50) 4, J, 10 (2 players)
Hero bets $10, CO raises $63.30 (All-In),
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Originally posted by BobSloane View PostVillain is 22/12/2 after 50 hands. No history. I hate when this happens. Is this way too wide a range to give him. I need about 38%. Is he shipping hands like AQ, KQ here or even AJ? Or is he much more likely to have TT+
Board: Ts Jc 4d
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.422% 43.78% 00.64% 338088 4942.50 { AKo }
Hand 1: 55.578% 54.94% 00.64% 424227 4942.50 { TT+, AQs-AJs, KJs+, QJs, JTs, AQo-AJo, KJo+ }
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No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
CO ($73.30)
Hero (BB) ($100)
UTG ($198.22)
Button ($113.25)
MP ($20)
SB ($112.38)
Preflop: Hero is BB with K, A
2 folds, CO bets $3, 2 folds, Hero raises $9, CO calls $7
Flop: ($20.50) 4, J, 10 (2 players)
Hero bets $10, CO raises $63.30 (All-In),
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 37.990% 37.54% 00.45% 249744 2998.50 { AKo }
Hand 1: 62.010% 61.56% 00.45% 409539 2998.50 { TT+, AQs-AJs, KJs+, QJs, JTs, AJo, KJo+ }
FWIW, my default cbet size with these stacks on this flop would be ~ $15 (sizing for 2 streets of betting).
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Well I called and he had KK but i binked an A anyway because I'm gutsy and fortunate
Main Entry: gutsy
Pronunciation: \ˈgət-sē\
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): guts·i·er; guts·i·est
Date: circa 1893
1 : marked by courage, pluck, or determination <a gutsy little fighter> <a gutsy decision>
Main Entry: for·tu·nate
Pronunciation: \ˈfȯrch-nət, ˈfȯr-chə-\
Function: adjective
Date: 14th century
1 : bringing some good thing not foreseen as certain : auspicious
2 : receiving some unexpected good
synonyms see lucky
odd post but im quite out of it
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Villain is 42/20/2 after less than 100 hands. He has played some hands weird donking at some point in the hand and not being looked up. Should I shove the turn myself? I dont know what his range is but he's taken a line like this a few times against different players so I imagine its wider than 2 pair+. The river is a total brick so I dont see how I can fold but maybe I should?
My real question is about the turn though. Should I shove this v this player or call and bluff catch river
No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Hero (MP) ($104.55)
UTG ($141.80)
Button ($100)
BB ($100)
SB ($95.50)
Preflop: Hero is MP with A, K
UTG bets $3, Hero raises $10, 3 folds, UTG calls $7
Flop: ($21.50) 4, 10, A (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $14, UTG calls $14
Turn: ($49.50) Q (2 players)
UTG bets $23.75, Hero calls $23.75
River: ($97) 2 (2 players)
UTG bets $47.50, Hero calls $47.50
Total pot: $192Last edited by BobSloane; 11-04-10, 20:55.
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BobSloane against a player lie that Id be betting bigger for value. If he is going to call that flop for 14, he is going to call it for 16 and probably 18 too. Perhaps even higher.
That way if he donks the turn as such stacks are good for a shove.This may or may not be an original thought of my own.
All efforts were made to make this thought original but with the abundance of thoughts in the world the originality of this thought cannot be guaranteed.
The author is not liable for any issue arising from the platitudinous nature of this post.
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I almost folded flop but now Im at the river
Villain is 22/18/2.7 who has played 250k hands since middle of feb. <1bb/100 winner. AF by street 2.6/2.5/5 I only looked that up for posting the hand though and think i would fold flop if I knew at the time. River? My hand is face up as a decent jack or QQ+ and although he is repping a narrow range he prob has it alot.? I expect he will shove KQ here as well as the boats. Having called flop, should I just fold turn when he fires again as he's prob gonna ship the river anyway. i wish i folded flop
No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
SB ($100)
MP ($135.30)
Hero (UTG) ($135.47)
Button ($243.50)
BB ($100.60)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with J, A
Hero bets $3, MP calls $3, 3 folds
Flop: ($7.50) J, 3, 10 (2 players)
Hero bets $5, MP raises $15, Hero calls $10
Turn: ($37.50) 10 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $25, Hero calls $25
River: ($87.50) 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $92.30 (All-In), Hero folds
Total pot: $87.50
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Now don't scron the moron but would leading out on the flop or the turn be wrong and why?
I know certain reasons but as a newbie still really learning the ins and outs or why not to do something i'd rather hear a more intelligent player tell me why.Last edited by MegaSin; 13-04-10, 10:35.
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Originally posted by Semibluff View Postcbeting and folding that flop to heat, has to be wrong?!?
Its one of those situations where it doesn't make much difference whether you have the best hand or not, your opponent has such a huge advantage it doesn't make sense trying to protect the relatively small pot. Your hand is weak vs his value range, the only hand you have outs against is TJ, and your outs in that case make a straight possible meaning you aren't going to get paid off.
Megasin, do you mean leading on the turn having called the flop raise?
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If they limp call with anything it will be free money when you are in position and have initiative.
I will iso raise any limper the first time he does it and as much as I can after. It is free money from the word go. So basically limp calling is exploitable so it is always exploitable.Last edited by RoadSweeper; 13-04-10, 11:58.
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Just checking the "standardness" of these spots. Obviously lost both, but think my play was right, always nice to have someone say yes or no though.
Rush Poker - no reads
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Hero (CO) ($25)
Button ($29.42)
SB ($27.13)
BB ($25)
UTG ($12.84)
MP ($23.72)
Preflop: Hero is CO with J, 10
1 fold, MP bets $1, Hero calls $1, 3 folds
Flop: ($2.35) A, 9, Q (2 players)
MP bets $2, Hero raises to $6.70, MP raises to $22.72 (All-In), Hero calls $16.02
Turn: ($47.79) 2 (2 players, 1 all-in)
River: ($47.79) 6 (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $47.79 | Rake: $2.38
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
SB ($34.95)
Hero (BB) ($39.79)
UTG ($26.10)
MP ($30.68)
CO ($10.57)
Button ($17.19)
Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, Q
1 fold, MP bets $0.85, 1 fold, Button calls $0.85, 1 fold, Hero raises to $3.50, 1 fold, Button raises to $7, Hero raises to $39.79 (All-In), Button calls $10.19 (All-In)
Flop: ($35.33) 4, 2, 9 (2 players, 2 all-in)
Turn: ($35.33) J (2 players, 2 all-in)
River: ($35.33) 10 (2 players, 2 all-in)
Total pot: $35.33 | Rake: $1.76
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This fine? Or should I be bet/folding the river?
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button ($37.84)
Hero (SB) ($94.98)
BB ($25.57)
UTG ($26.91)
MP ($24.94)
CO ($32.79)
Preflop: Hero is SB with A, A
UTG bets $0.85, 3 folds, Hero raises to $2.50, 1 fold, UTG calls $1.65
Flop: ($5.25) 4, 6, Q (2 players)
Hero bets $3.50, UTG calls $3.50
Turn: ($12.25) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks
River: ($12.25) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $7, Hero calls $7
Total pot: $26.25 | Rake: $1.31
Results:
Hero had A, A (two pair, Aces and Queens).
UTG had Q, K (three of a kind, Queens).
Outcome: UTG won $24.94
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Line check
Villain is 19/17 with an aggression factor of 14 over 150 hands.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button ($10.45)
SB ($15.70)
BB ($10)
UTG ($10)
Hero (MP) ($17.85)
CO ($13.10)
Preflop: Hero is MP with 8, 8
UTG calls $0.10, Hero bets $0.40, 1 fold, Button calls $0.40, 1 fold, BB calls $0.30, UTG calls $0.30
Flop: ($1.65) 3, 5, 5 (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $0.80, Button calls $0.80, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.80
Turn: ($4.05) 3 (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks, Button bets $2, 1 fold, Hero folds
Total pot: $4.05 | Rake: $0.20
Results:
Button didn't show
Outcome: Button won $3.85
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Originally posted by emmet02 View PostThis fine? Or should I be bet/folding the river?
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button ($37.84)
Hero (SB) ($94.98)
BB ($25.57)
UTG ($26.91)
MP ($24.94)
CO ($32.79)
Preflop: Hero is SB with A, A
UTG bets $0.85, 3 folds, Hero raises to $2.50, 1 fold, UTG calls $1.65
Flop: ($5.25) 4, 6, Q (2 players)
Hero bets $3.50, UTG calls $3.50
Turn: ($12.25) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks
River: ($12.25) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $7, Hero calls $7
Total pot: $26.25 | Rake: $1.31
Results:
Hero had A, A (two pair, Aces and Queens).
UTG had Q, K (three of a kind, Queens).
Outcome: UTG won $24.94
When he checks back the turn i think his range is a lot of mid pairs that want to get to showdown that will check back the river so i prefer betting than check calling.Originally posted by ArmaniJeansI like this heat - some proper music innit.
None of the 'black disabled lesbian warbling backwards' stuff that the other players inflicted on me.
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Originally posted by bubbleking View Postshould I be happy I have a very healthy looking EV line or be devastated I'm running 7 BI's below it?
And I definitely c/c the AA hand. I think its a much more cohesive line, and your hand is face up when you bet imo. You'll induce bluffs from the missed, and even thin VBs from like 88+.
I think that would be much better than betting.Foldaramus et foldarabimus
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Dont normally post hands but this is really annoying me today.
Live donkament, 34 runners, 7 left on FT. Blinds 1500/3000, avg 38k. 1st €500, 2nd €350, 3rd €200
My stack is 33k, and to my direct left are 2 of the bigger stacks, 60k and >80k
My image would be pretty TAG, started FT with 1.5x avg, only hands I've been involved in I have opened three or so times only for the CL to ship over the top. Had to lay down medium pairs etc.
This hand, MP (loose enough generally but hasn't done much at this FT so far, playing 75k) opens to 7k, folded to me in SB and I ship 33k with A3.
Thoughts on this? Am I being over aggro trying to get back to avg, or is 11BB's enough to sit tight at this stage?
Thoughts please!
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Originally posted by NewApproach View PostThanks. What would be a decent range for shipping in this spot do you reckon?Foldaramus et foldarabimus
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Anyone have a problem with weaktight where it doesnt show up options of where to stop the action in the hand?
Its really getting to me as I cant figure it out at all. I have spoken to people with the same options ticked that have no problem. When I click on the field it looks like this
Anyone that knows weaktight will see that there should be more options of where in the hand to stop the action- these are just menu headings and not actions.
Any help appreciated.
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Originally posted by emmet02 View PostThis fine? Or should I be bet/folding the river?
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button ($37.84)
Hero (SB) ($94.98)
BB ($25.57)
UTG ($26.91)
MP ($24.94)
CO ($32.79)
Preflop: Hero is SB with A, A
UTG bets $0.85, 3 folds, Hero raises to $2.50, 1 fold, UTG calls $1.65
Flop: ($5.25) 4, 6, Q (2 players)
Hero bets $3.50, UTG calls $3.50
Turn: ($12.25) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks
River: ($12.25) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $7, Hero calls $7
Total pot: $26.25 | Rake: $1.31
Results:
Hero had A, A (two pair, Aces and Queens).
UTG had Q, K (three of a kind, Queens).
Outcome: UTG won $24.94
Flops ok.
I'd bet/fold the turn I think your missing a ton of value there. People at this level will call with a lot of underpairs when the board pairs and a lot will continue with whatever draws they have. Obv fold if he raises. If he calls the turn, I see on the river but prob check fold. I might call against certain types.This may or may not be an original thought of my own.
All efforts were made to make this thought original but with the abundance of thoughts in the world the originality of this thought cannot be guaranteed.
The author is not liable for any issue arising from the platitudinous nature of this post.
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Originally posted by CaptainPlanet View Post3 bet bigger pre.
Flops ok.
I'd bet/fold the turn I think your missing a ton of value there. People at this level will call with a lot of underpairs when the board pairs and a lot will continue with whatever draws they have. Obv fold if he raises. If he calls the turn, I see on the river but prob check fold. I might call against certain types.
I don't mean this as snide comment btw, I'm genuinely curious.
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Originally posted by daire View PostWhy do you bet the turn for value and c/f most rivers? This doesn't make an awful lot of sense to me.
I don't mean this as snide comment btw, I'm genuinely curious.
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Originally posted by daire View PostWhy do you bet the turn for value and c/f most rivers? This doesn't make an awful lot of sense to me.
I don't mean this as snide comment btw, I'm genuinely curious.
But on a simpler level, I bet the turn because he can call with a lot worse and often.
I check the river because he can't.
He might bet worse for value (unlikely) and he might bluff(a little more likely but still unlikely) but when he bets the river after being checked to he is nearly always betting a better hand than AA.This may or may not be an original thought of my own.
All efforts were made to make this thought original but with the abundance of thoughts in the world the originality of this thought cannot be guaranteed.
The author is not liable for any issue arising from the platitudinous nature of this post.
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Originally posted by BobSloane View Posthe will never raise our bet with like TT or whatever and he will probably not bet TT himself if we check.
As I said I don't play online cash and i'm genuinely curious.We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then is not an act, but a habit.
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Originally posted by dannydiamond View PostI don't play onine cash anymore but is this standard? This doesn't seem right to me against anyone decent.
As I said I don't play online cash and i'm genuinely curious.This may or may not be an original thought of my own.
All efforts were made to make this thought original but with the abundance of thoughts in the world the originality of this thought cannot be guaranteed.
The author is not liable for any issue arising from the platitudinous nature of this post.
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My post above is a long way off the mark. On the turn the amount of Qs in his range is much less as there are two out there - if he is caling pre with QJs,KQ,AQ. But then again there is no info on villain in op so he could be a mongoloid 60/15 or a total nit 9/7 but most likely somewhere in between.
But anyway if we bet the turn and he calls his range on the river - besides unlikely bs doulble floats - is weaker made hands, a queen, missed draws. Most players will check back their weaker made hands(but not call a big bet anyway) and be glad to get to showdown. Most will bet a queen or better and some will take a stab with their missed draws but because we have the ace of spades and there aren't many draws for an utg raise/calling range if he bets he most likely has a queen.
Danny I'm not sure what you are getting at. If he has TT on Q46Qss do you expect him to raise our turn bet? Or bet if we check to him because he puts us on AK and wants to protect against the 6 outs? Or turn it into a bluff so we might fold JJ,KK,AA? I'd consider checking it back to be standard but I could be the one thats wrong!
Given that the turn went check/check emmet could bet/fold the river or check/call. He cant check/fold as his hand is so under repped and villain could now def be value betting worse.
I rather bet the turn like captain planet says because we are missing a ton of value from the pairs that will call and we are missing value again on the river by checking basically hoping he will value bet worse or bluff and despairingly trying to get our AA to sd instead of betting it like a man and making ourselves more aggressive and harder to play against
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Checking back TT on the river is def standard,similarly checking the turn behind if checked to is standard too.
I cant see any reason you'd raise the turn/bet the river, especially if your decent. I can see a very very good player perhaps turning it into a bluff (and making us fold AA because "when he bets the river he always has a better hand that AA") but its very rare someone would even consider that. Despite the board, TT still has relatively good showdown value.This may or may not be an original thought of my own.
All efforts were made to make this thought original but with the abundance of thoughts in the world the originality of this thought cannot be guaranteed.
The author is not liable for any issue arising from the platitudinous nature of this post.
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The thing is that on the turn a flush draw is only a very small part of his range - more so because we have the ace of spades. We are value betting to get value from the 88-JJ part of his range. Unfortunately we are value-towning ourselves against the Qx part of his range. There is little merit to checking to let him value bet worse(imo) because he won't value bet the 88-JJ part of his range. Against a spewy player who will just auto bet if checked to we can check/call turn and river because he may bet TT because you have checked and he thinks he should bet for some reason or he can't help but bluff with some hand he floated with or whatever. You can play it a few ways I suppose depending on what type of villain you have and what he thinks of you. But I prefer to bet/fold the turn and check/fold the river vs standard small stakes guys i encounter who will play their hands fairly honestly and face up for the most part
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Fairly standard spot i suppose. original raiser is 39/16/2 with a fold to 3b% of 0 after 100 hands. Button is 22/17/2.4 with 3b% of 10 after 100 hands and seems decent so far.
No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button ($165.75)
BB ($102.15)
Hero (SB) ($100.50)
UTG ($124.08)
CO ($56.55)
MP ($110.87)
Preflop: Hero is SB with J, J
1 fold, MP bets $4, 1 fold, Button raises $12, [color=#666666][i]
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Originally posted by BobSloane View PostFairly standard spot i suppose. original raiser is 39/16/2 with a fold to 3b% of 0 after 100 hands. Button is 22/17/2.4 with 3b% of 10 after 100 hands and seems decent so far.
No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button ($165.75)
BB ($102.15)
Hero (SB) ($100.50)
UTG ($124.08)
CO ($56.55)
MP ($110.87)
Preflop: Hero is SB with J, J
1 fold, MP bets $4, 1 fold, Button raises $12, [color=#666666][i]"I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson
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Firstly, I am a chump when it comes to draws.
Secondly, I never know what the right line is here.
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
UTG ($70.35)
MP ($26.85)
CO ($37.25)
Hero (Button) ($53.80)
SB ($77.85)
BB ($55.70)
Preflop: Hero is Button with 9, 8
UTG bets $1.75, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.75, 2 folds
Flop: ($4.25) 9, 6, 7 (2 players)
UTG bets $3, Hero ????
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Originally posted by emmet02 View PostFirstly, I am a chump when it comes to draws.
Secondly, I never know what the right line is here.
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
UTG ($70.35)
MP ($26.85)
CO ($37.25)
Hero (Button) ($53.80)
SB ($77.85)
BB ($55.70)
Preflop: Hero is Button with 9, 8
UTG bets $1.75, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.75, 2 folds
Flop: ($4.25) 9, 6, 7 (2 players)
UTG bets $3, Hero ????
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likewise this hand. Difference is I am the pfr here
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button ($12.30)
SB ($29.75)
BB ($50)
UTG ($134.10)
MP ($32)
Hero (CO) ($56.40)
Preflop: Hero is CO with 10, J
2 folds, Hero bets $1.50, 2 folds, BB calls $1
Flop: ($3.25) 7, 9, J (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2.50, BB calls $2.50
Turn: ($8.25) Q (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $5, BB calls $5
River: ($18.25) 3 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks
Total pot: $18.25 | Rake: $0.90
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Not that I dislike your line, but why are you betting the turn? That's the key question and knowing the answer to it is what will improve your game. It's a genuine question by the way, not meant in a why on earth would you do that kind of way and I'm not saying it's right or wrong"In the world, there are many kings but there is only one God. I am God, I am El Tren" :{)
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