Originally posted by Caf
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Played the €35 deepstack in the voodoo last night and witnessed one of the most lol hands I've ever seen live
Player 2 min raises to ~$1.2k & gets 1 caller (player 1)
Flop 389
P1 bets out ~$1.2k & P2 insta re-raises to ~$5.2k & get called
Turn J
P1 checks & P2 ships it for about $25k
Now player 1 tanks for about 2 minutes & has player 2 covered by about ~$10k/$15k
Then WTF he folds 107 face up
Now seriously how the fuck could anyone even contemplate player2 could have Q-10 in this stop
If he did it would have to be surely Q10 but still no way I would fold this anyway in this spot?
Btw player1 knocks me out an hour later calling off my bluff for like 80% of his stack with I think 3rd pair on the turn
Good night thoughLast edited by Donkathon; 23-08-12, 19:18.
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Villian is a better reg. He folds to too many 3bets and his flop and turn cb are 82/60. His river cbet % is only 17%. I was planning on calling flops and turns and probably folding to a third barrel on the flop depending on run out. I decide not to raise the turn as I think he is barrelling quite a bit here and will fold to a raise. In Hindsight, I think Its probably a raise given I dont think hes going to bluff the river If he misses. River was a pretty easy bet for value and Im not expecting to get checkraised here alot. I have doublefloated him a couple of times already and taken It away from him on the river but I dont know If he was noticed this and If he has I think he would probably just fire a 3rd barrell to combat It instead of a checkraise. Anyway, Does anyone b/c river? What sort of hands would you expect Villian to turn up with here given his line? Also Vs this type of Villian would you ever just fold the flop with this hand because were expecting a turn bet most of the time.
Winamax - €0.50 NL (5 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
CO: €69.50
BTN: €119.93
SB: €72.54
Hero (BB): €49.75
UTG: €50.50
SB posts SB €0.25, Hero posts BB €0.50
Pre Flop: (pot: €0.75) Hero has T:heart: T:club:
fold, fold, fold, SB raises to €1.50, Hero calls €1.00
Flop: (€3.00, 2 players) 3:heart: K:heart: J:spade:
SB bets €2.25, Hero calls €2.25
Turn: (€7.50, 2 players) T:spade:
SB bets €5.00, Hero calls €5.00
River: (€17.50, 2 players) 4:spade:
SB checks, Hero bets €12.50, SB raises to €63.79 and is all-in,
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Originally posted by Hectorjelly View PostYou only beat a bluff, so it comes down to how often you think he is bluffing the river like this.
I think your hand is too strong to fold the flop, you also know that you will rarely face a river bet.
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PokerStars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button ($11)
SB ($8.97)
Hero (BB) ($8.04)
UTG ($7.64)
MP ($3.55)
CO ($1.81)
Preflop: Hero is BB with K, Q
4 folds, SB bets $0.15, Hero calls $0.10
Flop: ($0.30) Q, J, 10 (2 players)
SB bets $0.20, Hero calls $0.20
Turn: ($0.70) 5 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.50, SB calls $0.50
River: ($1.70) 9 (2 players)
SB checks Hero?airport, lol
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Originally posted by eamonhonda View PostPokerStars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button ($11)
SB ($8.97)
Hero (BB) ($8.04)
UTG ($7.64)
MP ($3.55)
CO ($1.81)
Preflop: Hero is BB with K, Q
4 folds, SB bets $0.15, Hero calls $0.10
Flop: ($0.30) Q, J, 10 (2 players)
SB bets $0.20, Hero calls $0.20
Turn: ($0.70) 5 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.50, SB calls $0.50
River: ($1.70) 9 (2 players)
SB checks Hero?
Given his line I find it hard to fold to a shove
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WCOOP-02 mega sat turbo
Hero is 87/280. 196 places paid, 195 tickets and $55 for 196th. Avg is 22k. 32k will be the avg with 195 players left.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 11 Tournament, 1500/3000 Blinds 300 Ante (8 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
saw flop | saw showdown
Button (t44737)
Hero (SB) (t25225)
BB (t30751)
UTG (t5321)
UTG+1 (t25902)
MP1 (t22879)
MP2 (t6667)
CO (t16067)
Hero's M: 3.66
Preflop: Hero is SB with 4, 9
6 folds, Hero?
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I thought it was pretty close tbh. This chart that you're working off, is it for sats? Ranges have to change from normal MTTs with the dynamics involved surely?
We're at a stage where our seat is close to a lock, but not gtd yet. With such a low avg stack my thoughts were that villain, with an above avg stack, would need a fairly tight range to make the call so shoving atc is a must here as it essentially locks up a ticket the times we get it through. I also thought, with the low avg, that we need to take every open shove we can BvB since it's rarely folded around to us to do so.
What would be your calling range be in the BB here? I know what mine is but I'm more than likely too tight in that spot.
FWIW I did shove, villain tank folded and I folded my way to a ticket.
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Guest
I think it's too early for sat dynamics to be relevant. You've only enough chips for 4 orbits and there's still 85 to be knocked out, I don't see how you're close to a lock.
My calling range would be roughly 22+, Ax, K5s+, K9o+, QTo+, Q8s+, JTs against someone who I thought was shoving as wide as a good reg should be.
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Originally posted by Caf View PostI thought it was pretty close tbh. This chart that you're working off, is it for sats? Ranges have to change from normal MTTs with the dynamics involved surely?
We're at a stage where our seat is close to a lock, but not gtd yet. With such a low avg stack my thoughts were that villain, with an above avg stack, would need a fairly tight range to make the call so shoving atc is a must here as it essentially locks up a ticket the times we get it through. I also thought, with the low avg, that we need to take every open shove we can BvB since it's rarely folded around to us to do so.
What would be your calling range be in the BB here? I know what mine is but I'm more than likely too tight in that spot.
FWIW I did shove, villain tank folded and I folded my way to a ticket.
If this was an MTT, then his range for calling your shove (knowing nothing about him) could be something like A2+, K10+, 22+ but that would be suicide in this sat. I'm happy to shove there almost every single time.
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Originally posted by zuutroy View PostI think it's too early for sat dynamics to be relevant. You've only enough chips for 4 orbits and there's still 85 to be knocked out, I don't see how you're close to a lock.
My calling range would be roughly 22+, Ax, K5s+, K9o+, QTo+, Q8s+, JTs against someone who I thought was shoving as wide as a good reg should be.
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Originally posted by zuutroy View PostNot according to the maths
That range you laid out is roughly a 30% range.
Just had a scan and saw this which is sort of relevant, but caf is never shoving 100% of the time in a normal MTT here, and anyone calling 30% in the BB will never be a winning player in sats because most people don't shove wide enough to make calling this wide profitable. We need to finish 195th, not amass chips to finish any higher than that.
100% is good against most calling ranges honestly.
(Even wider if the antes are more than 10% of the BB )
I just put in a 12bb stack with 9 players at the table.
Assume we shove 100% of hands, and the villain calls with 30% of hands. We have 38.737% equity vs 30% of hands.. We increase our stack by 9.57% on average each time we shove. It's a easy shove with ATC.
EDIT: I just put in 32o vs 30% of hands.. We have 29.973% equity vs that 30% calling range. It's still a +EV play with 32o.(+0.45 bb) (3.78% increase by shoving)
I believe this is what they call an unexploitable shove. If we shove 100%, and they call 100%, we have 50% equity. It's +EV to shove.. +1.2 bb per shove which is a 10% increase in our stack.
EDIT 2: On the opposite side of that spectrum, if he only calls with AA, it's a huge +EV shove. EV: +2.35 bb
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Guest
Well I plugged in a shoving range of
22+,A2s+,K2s+,Q6s+,J8s+,T8s+,97s+,87s,A2o+,K8o+,QT o+,JTo,T9o
for the SB and it spewed out a calling range close to that from my earlier post. We need 42% equity to call and K6o has 42.6%.
I'll admit I have little to no experience with sats, but with 280 left and a 10bb stack with antes I think it still plays like a straight MTT. In a normal MTT, shoving 100% of hands there is unexploitably profitable.
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Originally posted by zuutroy View PostWell I plugged in a shoving range of
22+,A2s+,K2s+,Q6s+,J8s+,T8s+,97s+,87s,A2o+,K8o+,QT o+,JTo,T9o
for the SB and it spewed out a calling range close to that from my earlier post. We need 42% equity to call and K6o has 42.6%.
I'll admit I have little to no experience with sats, but with 280 left and a 10bb stack with antes I think it still plays like a straight MTT. In a normal MTT, shoving 100% of hands there is unexploitably profitable.
Assuming it's an $11 FO, then there's $41980 in the prizepool so 3816 players entered and we're down to the last 280 so we're well into the final stages
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Guest
Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
Assuming it's an $11 FO, then there's $41980 in the prizepool so 3816 players entered and we're down to the last 280 so we're well into the final stages
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Originally posted by zuutroy View PostHmm, when you put it like that it sounds different! I still think because we're so short and the average is so short that things can change very quickly and we need to be attacking. If you stay quiet for a single orbit you could drop well below average.
He's 87/280 with 195 paid
He needs 85 players to bust, so everyone from 1-110 is just inside the cutoff at the moment. If obviously varies with shortstacks in blinds, doubling up etc, so adjust it by 20% again so 1-88 are in the fold to a ticket bracket. They don't need to take any unnecessary gambles unless things change drastically when it gets closer to the bubble. Caf could probably fold to a ticket as it is, but he's right on the cusp so i like his shove but would hate any of these guys to call any shoves light for a large % of their stacks
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Quick one here, can't find my hand histories on my comp
74 left and 73 paid, hero about 55/74. Blinds 500/1000 100 ante
utg+1 65k (opening and reraising most hands, playing stack well on bubble) utg+2 55k (loose enough player), sb 14k, bb (hero) 18k
UTG+1 opens to 2150, UTG+2 flats as does the sb. Hero has 99.... shove alright here?
Stakes are only small if that makes a difference
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Just played this hand in the Big 55.. Should I always be 3 betting here? If so, is my sizing ok? Does anyone call the shoves?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 55 Tournament, 50/100 Blinds 10 Ante (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
UTG (t3890)
UTG+1 (t6473)
MP1 (t2015)
MP2 (t3678)
MP3 (t1391)
CO (t6793)
Button (t1924)
Hero (SB) (t3874)
BB (t2400)
Hero's M: 16.14
Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, Q
UTG bets t215, UTG+1 calls t215, 5 folds, Hero raises to t777, 1 fold, UTG raises to t3880 (All-In), UTG+1 raises to t6463 (All-In), 1 fold
Flop: (t8727) 6, J, 4 (2 players, 2 all-in)
Turn: (t8727) K (2 players, 2 all-in)
River: (t8727) 8 (2 players, 2 all-in)
Total pot: t8727
Also, is it bad to 3 bet such a strong hand if I'm folding. I would have called the first shove FWIW.Last edited by KK82; 05-09-12, 20:28.
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Very quick question, rest of the hand doesn't really matter.
I check call the turn against a fish with pair and flush draw
River I get there, I have a 9 hi flush. The j and Q of my suit are also out.
Pot is 40, Effective stack 300 Board is Q 7 J 9 4 - I have 8 9
I check, villain bets 100.
Fold, Call or Shove?
Never seen villain overbet before. Don't know him very well
Here are my notes in their entirety
bad poker player
3bet Q9s IP
6bb raise with QA
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Originally posted by Hectorjelly View PostVery quick question, rest of the hand doesn't really matter.
I check call the turn against a fish with pair and flush draw
River I get there, I have a 9 hi flush. The j and Q of my suit are also out.
Pot is 40, Effective stack 300 Board is Q 7 J 9 4 - I have 8 9
I check, villain bets 100.
Fold, Call or Shove?
Never seen villain overbet before. Don't know him very well
Here are my notes in their entirety
bad poker player
3bet Q9s IP
6bb raise with QA"c'est en faisant n'importe quoi qu'on devient n'importe qui"
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Originally posted by Winning! View PostHis range is polarized with a lot more flush than set/straight combos, some of which may even find a fold if we jam. Calling seems fairly clearly best
We beat quite a lot of flushes, and I doubt he ever folds one to a jam.
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Pre and flop are kinda important for gauging the width of his value range there but in general I don't expect many worse flush combos since they kinda have to be connected, maybe one gap max.whereas there's gonna be a lot more Ax/Kxss combos. I expect sets and straights to bet less too since we call with worse so rarely. Guy is clearly a special case but without that knowledge originally shoving seems meh"c'est en faisant n'importe quoi qu'on devient n'importe qui"
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Originally posted by Winning! View PostPre and flop are kinda important for gauging the width of his value range there but in general I don't expect many worse flush combos since they kinda have to be connected, maybe one gap max.whereas there's gonna be a lot more Ax/Kxss combos. I expect sets and straights to bet less too since we call with worse so rarely. Guy is clearly a special case but without that knowledge originally shoving seems meh
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Advice on all streets
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 4.4 Tournament, 50/100 Blinds 10 Ante (8 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
MP2 (t7712)
CO (t1306)
Button (t2802)
SB (t3252)
Hero (BB) (t8808)
UTG (t10055)
UTG+1 (t12516)
MP1 (t4920)
Hero's M: 38.30
Preflop: Hero is BB with J, J
1 fold, UTG+1 bets t200, 1 fold, MP2 calls t200, 3 folds, Hero raises to t488, UTG+1 calls t288, MP2 calls t288
Flop: (t1594) 8, 7, 7 (3 players)
Hero bets t999, UTG+1 calls t999, MP2 calls t999
Turn: (t4591) 8 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets t1100, MP2 calls t1100, Hero calls t1100
River: (t7891) 2 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets t2100, MP2 raises to t5115 (All-In), Hero folds, UTG+1 calls t3015
Total pot: t18121airport, lol
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Your sizing pre is really small. It's gonna be 3way on the flop a ton with that sizing, which sucks when you have JJ oop. Make it $800 or so. The decision to sqz depends on how wide utg+1 is opening.
Flop is fine. I would just fold turn - at least 1 player has a boat there way too often to peel.
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Guest
Originally posted by Dice75 View PostCash game 1-2
Straddle €5 with 1 caller (I think)
Player to your right lifts his cards up so visible to me (KJs) & makes it €50
I have A2o (€150)
Do you say anything / whats your move?
If your still steaming from an expensive round of Desperados id shove
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Originally posted by Dice75 View PostCash game 1-2
Straddle €5 with 1 caller (I think)
Player to your right lifts his cards up so visible to me (KJs) & makes it €50
I have A2o (€150)
Do you say anything / whats your move?Pining for Wa'erford
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Originally posted by SICKPUPPY View PostJust fold like you normally would and tell him to cover his hand.
If your still steaming from an expensive round of Desperados id shoveOriginally posted by eamonhonda View PostWith nothing in the pot I fold as you would normally would to the bet and let the guy know about your honest deed
Nothing wrong with taking advantage here. Surprised nobody else overshoved as it was clear once his hand was tabled what was happening imo.
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Originally posted by AKDonk View PostThis particular player had been told numerous times before about covering his hand, and at least once while i was sitting at the table.
Nothing wrong with taking advantage here. Surprised nobody else overshoved.airport, lol
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Originally posted by peterswellman View PostSurely if you're going to take advantage, do it right and call? We know his hand we can play perfectly against him rather than just taking a 60/40?
Anyhow, announced to dealer that I'd seen his hand. Dealer calls floor. As he calls floor I shove. Floor asks me what cards were, verifys this and turns the KJ over so I'm not holding an advantage against anyone else at the table ( I knew this would be the case).
Few disgruntled folds and the KJ calls.
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Dice flips goodPeople say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
Get a shiny metal Revolut card! And a free tenner!
https://revolut.com/referral/jamesb8!G10D21
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Loads of mistakes
very active player only at table 2/3 orbits, playing most hands and opening/3betting/4 betting light. Both biggest stacks at table v early in tournament.
1. limp utg and call raise, 1st mistake oop? Or is this ok with k9s vs serial raiser pf?
2. my c/raise on flop wrong? his flop min raise cafuffled me. c/c and reassess turn instead?
3. prob a ton of other mistakes too
Cheers for the feedback
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 3.3 Tournament, 40/80 Blinds (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
BB (t3294)
Hero (UTG) (t11617)
MP (t4650)
CO (t17958)
Button (t1820)
SB (t3296)
Hero's M: 96.81
Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9, K
Hero calls t80, 1 fold, CO bets t240, Button calls t240, 2 folds, Hero calls t160
Flop: (t840) 9, A, K (3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets t160, 1 fold, Hero raises to t519, CO raises to t1038, Hero calls t519
Turn: (t2916) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets t1680, Hero calls t1680
River: (t6276) J (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets t15000 (All-In), Hero folds
Total pot: t6276Please prepare now for the developing economic and social unrest. Good day.
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Do you mainly play limit?
Firstly I'd never open limp pre
K9s is definitely a fold utg
Calling the raise oop is - EV
Post flop is ok, flop 3bet is pretty thin, especially since you clearly don't know what to do if he plays back at you. When check raising the pot will get very big very quickly, so its easiest to polarise your range so that its easy for you to know what to do. Check raising bottom two on a dry board is tricky as you kind of over represent your hand.
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2 Limpers, Cutoff raises. I 3bet on button with Q9 spades. Everyone folds and the cutoff calls. The flop is 938, 3 and 8 of spades. Cutoff donk pots the flop. The effective stack is exactly 1 buyin once he bets the flop. Call, fold, shove, minraise?
Edit: No notes on player, doesn't seem great.
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Originally posted by shano1888 View PostId shove anyway. Might get him to fold out a9, 10s or similar which might make sense given preflop action. You will obv be live if he snaps with an overpair or set etc. Im not folding v a random and im not flating given our aggressive line pre.
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Originally posted by shano_88 View PostVillian is never folding A9 or 1010 here Id imagine. I wouldnt be shoving trying to get him to fold them anyway.
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I did shove, but I immediately regretted it. I think call and get it in on the turn is much better.
There are two benefits to shoving. He can fold better, and I protect my equity. (Eg AK doesn't draw out on me)
I really doubt he ever folds better, I never expect anyone at low stakes to fold TT here given how they play it.
But the big benefit to calling is that I induce more bluffs, or bets from worse hands. He may just shove any pair all in on the turn, hoping I have AQ/K
Also there are a tonne of cards that make him a second best hand. Any Q or spade might give him a pair but he a better hand.
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