General Poker Thread

[Morihei]

On the flop there is no point in raising, you can't win the hand. If you raise and mp folds you haven't achieved anything, whilst risking your entire stack. The problem with calling is that you don't close the action, and if mp raises his raise will be pot committing. If you assume that MP just folds, then calling is going to be only a little better than neutral EV. Given that i'd just fold. If you somehow knew MP is going to just call and not fold or worse, three bet you could call. Or if you thought that he would three bet fold, (which I think is very unlikely ) then you could call and ship over any raise.

Remarkably accurate.

[tylerdurden94]

As for my hand I shoved and he eventually made the call with A8 which he seemed reluctant about, I got there when I flopped a Jack against his 8 and then I turned top two.

[Hectorjelly]

Remarkably accurate.

Did all the money get in on the flop?

[Morihei]

Did all the money get in on the flop?

I make it 175 (I think), he shoves.

After a long hard think, I convince myself it can't be a set or an overpair and I make the call on the basis that it can only be 34s (?) or 56 (might sound results based, but I named his hand before he turned it over.)

Kudos to Dice.

Kudos to yourself for reading it exactly with minimum of info.

[Dice75]

Did all the money get in on the flop?

I make it 175, he shoves.

After a long hard think, I convince myself it can't be a set or an overpair and I make the call on the basis that it can only be 34s (?) or 56 (might sound results based, but I named his hand before he turned it over.)

Kudos to Dice.

Kudos to yourself for reading it exactly with minimum of info.

As Morihei says.

This was my third stint at this particular cash table that weekend & I had been following the aggressive high variance route solemly(or not!) - think Mr Carr, IO.

Had been paying off pretty well as really only one player playing back (stacked him twice) until Mr Morihei busted the tourney & arrived. Still thought I could get him off 1010/JJ as he had been playing pretty snug since building up his stack. (We had 6 hours side by side in the tourney aswell).

Was fun.

[Bozzer]

25c 50c

I can't remember the villain, first orbit at the table but my notes on him are "Loose aggro moron, bluffs, min 3bet Q9s". It must have been from a while ago since I don't remember him.

I raise ATo from the cutoff, villain min 3bets me from sb. BB folds and I call. 7 in the pot, 60 behind each.

Flop is 8T2, two spades. Villain bets 1, I make it 6 and he calls.


Turn is a red Jack, villain bets 17 I call.

River is a blank, he shoves. I fold. He shoved for about 36

Anyone play the turn or river differently?

I don't really like call turn and fold blank river. With his sizing on the turn I expect him to shove river a lot (if he bet smaller on turn I could see QT/T9/98 stuff). I'd lean towards a turn fold here, particularly if we have the As.

quick one. Villian is a tag playing 18/14 over 1k hands. His flop and turn cbets are 57 and 52. Do you vb river and If so how much?


PokerStars - €0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: €51.25
UTG: €50.10
CO: €43.13
Hero (BTN): €75.04
SB: €45.41

SB posts SB €0.25, BB posts BB €0.50, BB posts ante €0.10, UTG posts ante €0.10, CO posts ante €0.10, Hero posts ante €0.10, SB posts ante €0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: €1.25) Hero has 8:spade: 8:club:

UTG raises to €1.25, CO calls €1.25, Hero calls €1.25, fold, fold

Flop: (€5.00, 3 players) T:spade: 9:club: T:club:
UTG bets €2.34, fold, Hero calls €2.34

Turn: (€9.68, 2 players) T:heart:
UTG checks, Hero bets €6.50, UTG calls €6.50

River: (€22.68, 2 players) 4:heart:
UTG checks

Betting river is too thin. Flop looks like is a fold as well. Nitty guy with low flop cbet betting a drawy flop 3way. Your equity just sucks there, even getting 3:1.

He could easily check 9x/overpairs on that turn (trying to induce vs draws), so I like a river ck back. Also, I don't think there's too many worse hands he calls us down with given that I expect a strong cbet strange.

[Caf]

HU micro mill.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 2.22 Tournament, 40/80 Blinds (2 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

BB (t4746)
Hero (SB) (t5254)

Hero's M: 43.78

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9, 9
Hero bets t173, BB raises to t4746 (All-In), Hero?

Needless to say villains stats aren't great. Not many hands played and villain has 3b shoved once in the 1st level.

[Morihei]

Guy seems pretty impatient. Fold now and he'll pay you off when you make a hand.

[Caf]

Guy seems pretty impatient. Fold now and he'll pay you off when you make a hand.

TY, I just felt it was too strong a hand to fold HU and with this being a hyper-turbo that my chances to out play him post flop might not come. I wasn't happy about calling or folding though.

[FeetMagic]

Snap call for me.

[eamonhonda]

The fact that this is a hyper turbo makes this a snap call for me. His range is probably Ax 22+

[Bubbleking]

This would be fairly standard against anyone half normal I would think but does your play change considering this guy is the rockiest rock that ever did rock?


PokerStars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($10.05)
SB ($11.72)
BB ($21.47)
UTG ($12.23)
Hero (MP) ($10)
CO ($10)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q, J
1 fold, Hero bets $0.30, CO calls $0.30, 2 folds, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.95) 9, 10, 4 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.70, CO raises to $2.10, 1 fold, Hero raises to $9.70 (All-In)

Total pot: $5.15

Results:

SPOILER

Hero didn't show Q, J.
CO didn't show

[FeetMagic]

Nope can't imagine it does.

[MegaSin]

Lay down right. No reads on villain. In the big27 on stars.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 27.5 Tournament, 20/40 Blinds (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO (t4500)
Hero (Button) (t2494)
BB (t2955)
UTG (t2970)
UTG+1 (t2985)
MP1 (t2675)
MP2 (t3200)
MP3 (t2790)

Hero's M: 41.57

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, Q
UTG+1 bets t105, 4 folds, Hero calls t105, 1 fold, UTG calls t65

Flop: (t335) 4, 5, 3 (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets t134, UTG raises to t440, 1 fold, Hero calls t306

Turn: (t1215) 2 (2 players)
UTG bets t720, Hero folds

Total pot: t1215

[Guest]

Whats standard play facing a fairly active opponent who open MR on the btn when you've TJo in the BB, 30bb deep?

[Hectorjelly]

Call

[Guest]

Call

What would be the bottom of your calling range there?

[Hectorjelly]

What would be the bottom of your calling range there?

Pretty low to a min raise, 78o etc

[Guest]

I assumme this is OK but no harm checking. €20 6 handed tourney. Guy has been playing 42/40 over 40 hands at the table but knows what he's doing and isn't a fish. Raised 4/10 CO so far. 25 left of 900 with 3.4k ftw. Avg stack is 700k.

http://www.holdemmanager.net

NL Holdem $20,000(BB) Winamax Game#141527675600943399

argent svp ($400,404)
isuskwe ($261,688)
DarKBlaDe69 ($589,718)
J3LLYFI5H ($1640,264)

argent svp antes $2,500
isuskwe antes $2,500
DarKBlaDe69 antes $2,500
J3LLYFI5H antes $2,500
argent svp posts (SB) $10,000
isuskwe posts (BB) $20,000

Dealt to argent svp Ac 4c
DarKBlaDe69 raises to $40,000
fold,
argent svp raises to $397,904 (AI)

[shano_88]

Looks fine to me

[Bubbleking]

yeah fwiw I think you can ship pretty wide there prob Q9+

[eamonhonda]

Only been at table for 4 or 5 hands and villains have been folding all hands. Average stack is about 4750.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 5.5 Tournament, 100/200 Blinds 25 Ante (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG (t1950)
UTG+1 (t4350)
MP1 (t7183)
MP2 (t1144)
MP3 (t2458)
CO (t2020)
Button (t1374)
SB (t5890)
Hero (BB) (t14679)

Hero's M: 27.96

Preflop: Hero is BB with 10, A
UTG bets t1925 (All-In), 4 folds, CO raises to t1995 (All-In), 2 folds, Hero ??

[Bubbleking]

Only been at table for 4 or 5 hands and villains have been folding all hands. Average stack is about 4750.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 5.5 Tournament, 100/200 Blinds 25 Ante (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG (t1950)
UTG+1 (t4350)
MP1 (t7183)
MP2 (t1144)
MP3 (t2458)
CO (t2020)
Button (t1374)
SB (t5890)
Hero (BB) (t14679)

Hero's M: 27.96

Preflop: Hero is BB with 10, A
UTG bets t1925 (All-In), 4 folds, CO raises to t1995 (All-In), 2 folds, Hero ??

easy fold

[FeetMagic]

I'd gamble there 25% of the time.

[Guest]

Live tourney hand. €80 FO, very deep so still about 180/210 left.
200/400/50a playing 27k and its the effective stack for the hand.
Villain is playing about 70/30 and talking loads and limp-calling shit like K5o, He's been mostly calling and losing at showdown so no real shown down hands to get reads on other than the K5 and one or two others.
UTG1 limps for 400 and I make it 1400 with AsAd in mp.
Folded back to UTG1 who calls.


Flop (3800) As Qc 9s

I make it 2200 and he calls quick enough.

Turn (8200) Jd

I make is 4300 and he calls again a little slower this time.

River (16800) 3s

He thinks for about 20 seconds and leads for 10200.

[sixtwo]

Live tourney hand. €80 FO, very deep so still about 180/210 left.
200/400/50a playing 27k and its the effective stack for the hand.
Villain is playing about 70/30 and talking loads and limp-calling shit like K5o, He's been mostly calling and losing at showdown so no real shown down hands to get reads on other than the K5 and one or two others.
UTG1 limps for 400 and I make it 1400 with AsAd in mp.
Folded back to UTG1 who calls.


Flop (3800) Ac Qs 9s

I make it 2200 and he calls quick enough.

Turn (8200) Jd

I make is 4300 and he calls again a little slower this time.

River (16800) 3s

He thinks for about 20 seconds and leads for 10200.

shove and be very happy when he snaps you off with QJ off

[Hectorjelly]

Live tourney hand. €80 FO, very deep so still about 180/210 left.
200/400/50a playing 27k and its the effective stack for the hand.
Villain is playing about 70/30 and talking loads and limp-calling shit like K5o, He's been mostly calling and losing at showdown so no real shown down hands to get reads on other than the K5 and one or two others.
UTG1 limps for 400 and I make it 1400 with AsAd in mp.
Folded back to UTG1 who calls.


Flop (3800) Ac Qs 9s

I make it 2200 and he calls quick enough.

Turn (8200) Jd

I make is 4300 and he calls again a little slower this time.

River (16800) 3s

He thinks for about 20 seconds and leads for 10200.

Easy fold, he has a flush here almost all the time. About 10% of the time you are getting "bluffed" by two pair, but its much more likely he has a flush.

[Bubbleking]

Live tourney hand. €80 FO, very deep so still about 180/210 left.
200/400/50a playing 27k and its the effective stack for the hand.
Villain is playing about 70/30 and talking loads and limp-calling shit like K5o, He's been mostly calling and losing at showdown so no real shown down hands to get reads on other than the K5 and one or two others.
UTG1 limps for 400 and I make it 1400 with AsAd in mp.
Folded back to UTG1 who calls.


Flop (3800) Ac Qs 9s

I make it 2200 and he calls quick enough.

Turn (8200) Jd

I make is 4300 and he calls again a little slower this time.

River (16800) 3s

He thinks for about 20 seconds and leads for 10200.

frustrating fold unfortunately

[sixtwo]

so what was the outcome of the hand? i really think we have to call here, if villians as bad as you say, your ahead 80 90% of time....

[Hectorjelly]

so what was the outcome of the hand? i really think we have to call here, if villians as bad as you say, your ahead 80 90% of time....

No, your exactly wrong, if he is as bad as Zuutroy says we are behind 90% of the time. Just because a player is bad doesn't mean he doesn't occasionally have strong hands. He has played his hand EXACTLY like a flush. A good player might actually turn up with a bluff here, a bad player wont. If you call here you make his very loose calls on every other street profitable

[Flushdraw]

so what was the outcome of the hand? i really think we have to call here, if villians as bad as you say, your ahead 80 90% of time....

If you think he has K10 or a flush only 10 or 20% of the time, what hands does he has 80 or 90% of the time that we beat?

[Guest]

I've seen this line from fish a million times in cash games and I always end up calling out of frustration and I'm even more prone to it where you often have to wait two hours for a premium hand. Hated myself almost before the chips were over the line....He had QsJs. I figured he could have actually have been leading the non-flush QJ, Q9 or A9 there too but a flush is much more likely.

[Denny Crane]

Misdeal imo

[sixtwo]

I've seen this line from fish a million times in cash games and I always end up calling out of frustration and I'm even more prone to it where you often have to wait two hours for a premium hand. Hated myself almost before the chips were over the line....He had QsJs. I figured he could have actually have been leading the non-flush QJ, Q9 or A9 there too but a flush is much more likely.

Hard game with two Qs in the deck hard to put him on that

[Guest]

Hard game with two Qs in the deck hard to put him on that

oops sorry..was the As on the flop.

[RoadSweeper]

Standard fold. Anyone bet more on the turn? I think we should bet closer to 7k as there are a number of action killer river cards and it sets us up better for a shove too I think.

On the river when he donks it is, as HJ and you said already nearly always a flush. Along with this, looking at the board closer, there isn't many bluffs. JT, QT or whatever other gutters he may have on the flop have some showdown value and from what I gather from his description, players like this don't tend to turn pairs into bluffs.

[Bozzer]

Live tourney hand. €80 FO, very deep so still about 180/210 left.
200/400/50a playing 27k and its the effective stack for the hand.
Villain is playing about 70/30 and talking loads and limp-calling shit like K5o, He's been mostly calling and losing at showdown so no real shown down hands to get reads on other than the K5 and one or two others.
UTG1 limps for 400 and I make it 1400 with AsAd in mp.
Folded back to UTG1 who calls.


Flop (3800) As Qc 9s

I make it 2200 and he calls quick enough.

Turn (8200) Jd

I make is 4300 and he calls again a little slower this time.

River (16800) 3s

He thinks for about 20 seconds and leads for 10200.

You can bet bigger on that turn fo sho. I'd fold river.

[Bozzer]

I see roadsweeper beat me to it

[Bozzer]

In the spirit of the Olympics, my new PB for most hands played in a month.

SPOILER

[Denny Crane]

That's a pretty spectacular graph!

[Hectorjelly]

That's a pretty spectacular graph!

Its like its from 2007!

[Denny Crane]

Ha that was my first thought, I didn't think you could have those anymore!

[Bubbleking]

all the regs gone to vegas for the WSOP and all the fish wanna ball in the midstakes obv

[Winning!]

In the spirit of the Olympics, my new PB for most hands played in a month.

SPOILER

sick downswong at 50k Think I might pack in tournament poker, bozz at midstakes-NL instead

[Hectorjelly]

You're too clever to be playing tournaments winning

Bozzer, what stakes/site are you playing? No worries if its a secret

[Guest]

It must be $1/$2. If it was $2/$4 and he went through 75k hands with his biggest downswing being a little over $2k then he's a superuser! Even 10 bi max downswing is pretty sweet.

[Bozzer]

Its like its from 2007!

Ha, they don't all look this purty!

It must be $1/$2. If it was $2/$4 and he went through 75k hands with his biggest downswing being a little over $2k then he's a superuser! Even 10 bi max downswing is pretty sweet.

Yeah it was just grinding $1/$2 last month

[Line Us]

Thats a pretty unreal graph for 1/2 bozzer, wp.

You're too clever to be playing tournaments winning

Lol this reminds me of the old "loldonkaments" type threads from back on boards where people would argue who is better, a cash player or tournament player.

[Hectorjelly]

Ahh the good ole days!

[Dice75]

Spot that comes up from time to time, well into money, 75 left, tourney playing quite shallow. Folded to hero in SB with almost 30k in middle.........

No reads as only at table 3 hands.

Action?


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 6000/12000 Blinds 1200 Ante (9 handed) - Poker Hand Converter from PokerConverter.com



CO (t111884)
Button (t92746)
Hero (SB) (t102852)
BB (t74440)
UTG (t347316)
UTG+1 (t142235)
MP1 (t148768)
MP2 (t125550)
MP3 (t76990)

Hero's M: 3.57

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3, 5
7 folds,

[Winning!]

Spot that comes up from time to time, well into money, 75 left, tourney playing quite shallow. Folded to hero in SB with almost 30k in middle.........

No reads as only at table 3 hands.

Action?


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 6000/12000 Blinds 1200 Ante (9 handed) - Poker Hand Converter from PokerConverter.com



CO (t111884)
Button (t92746)
Hero (SB) (t102852)
BB (t74440)
UTG (t347316)
UTG+1 (t142235)
MP1 (t148768)
MP2 (t125550)
MP3 (t76990)

Hero's M: 3.57

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3, 5
7 folds,

Any two. Randoms don't call anywhere near correctly in spots like this, esp late-stages, and they need to be calling like top 35-40% to make it incorrect for us to shove. In any case with sub-10BB stacks (esp late in turbos where stacks and +EV spots dry up v quickly) we need to gamble in potentially -EV spots since a maneuverable stack is worth so much more in $EV given standard MTT payouts.

[Guest]

According to pushbot charts ATC is a shove even with a calling range of 40% Can that be right?

[Winning!]

According to pushbot charts ATC is a shove even with a calling range of 40% Can that be right?

Ah I thought we had eff stack, but yeah with BB effective its likely gonna be +EV with ATC

[Guest]

Anyone know any good video training series' for tourneys? I was never a serious tourney player and I'm kinda still stuck in the HoH days when it comes to tourneys and I'm particularly lost when stacks are 25-40bb, and wouldn't mind giving them a more serious shot and seeing what the good players are up to these days. Are there any good series' that give a general introduction to modern online tourney play?

[AndyFatBastard]

Looking for some comments/criticisms/reassurance on my live play. Been getting battered recently.

Live £1/2, 10 handed, I have £155. UTG limps, UTG+1 limps. Fairly bad loose player UTG+2 makes it 6. He has made a few of these "pot builder" raises which I assume are mostly small pairs looking for setmining value. I call in MP with As4s, button who is a bit of a rock, which means a lot coming from me calls, one of the limpers calls.

Flop is Ks3s2x. Limpers check, OR checks, I bet 14 into 29. Btn calls, OR calls. At this point I put button on a K or flush draw, as he is a bit of a rock, and OR on a medium pair with the occasional badly-played monster.

Turn is a red 9. OR checks, I bet 35 into 71. BTN makes it 75. OR folds. I shove.

[Hectorjelly]

Buy in full, fold pre, check back turn. Once you get raised he can never fold since you are so short, so there is no point in shoving, just call his raise and fold unless you hit something.

I don't like how you played it at all, it just seems like pointless aggression. I mean you assign them a pretty strong range and then fire again on a blank turn, why would they fold? You don't have enough money behind to even consider trying to push someone off a king, and in any case you're probably better off never trying to get someone to fold top pair on a board like that.

[Guest]

Looking for some comments/criticisms/reassurance on my live play. Been getting battered recently.

Live £1/2, 10 handed, I have £155. UTG limps, UTG+1 limps. Fairly bad loose player UTG+2 makes it 6. He has made a few of these "pot builder" raises which I assume are mostly small pairs looking for setmining value. I call in MP with As4s, button who is a bit of a rock, which means a lot coming from me calls, one of the limpers calls.

Flop is Ks3s2x. Limpers check, OR checks, I bet 14 into 29. Btn calls, OR calls. At this point I put button on a K or flush draw, as he is a bit of a rock, and OR on a medium pair with the occasional badly-played monster.

Turn is a red 9. OR checks, I bet 35 into 71. BTN makes it 75. OR folds. I shove.

Wih your stack id probably fold pre 150bb deep id call but live can be so boring i play too many hands.

Flop bet is fine id check the turn though nobody is folding a king probably and if a cheap spade comes you will likely get paid off by a worse flush without bloating the pot even if you have a strong draw.

On the turn after betting you can never fold given stack size.

Regarding getting battered playing live the variance can take months to even out unlike online where you can get lots of hands in.
Do you keep records of wins losses sometimes when on a downswing we can play bad and without coinfidence.


If your missing straight flush draws against multiple foes its hard to win sometimes.
Usual stuff of not playing tired drunk or when you dont really want too apply.

[AndyFatBastard]

FTR I did buy in full but lost a few. Also folding pre is pretty much out of the question on this table. The fact that there was only four to the flop was extremely surprising. I was easily getting about 7/1 on the call with implied odds. It's that kind of game.

[AndyFatBastard]

Check/call turn seems to make sense alright, thanks guys. Will have another one for ye later.

[Strewelpeter]

... folding pre is pretty much out of the question on this table...

No no no a thousand times no.
If you are there for a bit of craic and splonking a few quid playing cards as a preference to roulette than that's fine but if you are there to make money then its always a fold.