Originally posted by Hectorjelly
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Using Pushbot charts, this call has a positive ROI if he's shoving wider than 15%, which is 55+, A2s+, KJs+, QJs, A8o+ and KQo. I'd say this is a fairly narrow range for him here, and you should call it off.
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Quick one. Playing a 3x turbo into the Sunday Million. 140 left. Im a little below average atm. Just moved table aswell so no reads on villian only that I searched him when he shoved and he was playing 5 other turbo rebuy sats.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 1.65 Tournament, 20000/40000 Blinds 4000 Ante (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
CO (t302200)
Button (t531516)
SB (t174632)
BB (t204459)
UTG (t460200)
UTG+1 (t699172)
Hero (MP1) (t203400)
MP2 (t485560)
MP3 (t36800)
Hero's M: 2.12
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q, A
1 fold, UTG+1 bets t695172 (All-In),
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Originally posted by shano_88 View PostQuick one. Playing a 3x turbo into the Sunday Million. 140 left. Im a little below average atm. Just moved table aswell so no reads on villian only that I searched him when he shoved and he was playing 5 other turbo rebuy sats.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 1.65 Tournament, 20000/40000 Blinds 4000 Ante (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
CO (t302200)
Button (t531516)
SB (t174632)
BB (t204459)
UTG (t460200)
UTG+1 (t699172)
Hero (MP1) (t203400)
MP2 (t485560)
MP3 (t36800)
Hero's M: 2.12
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q, A
1 fold, UTG+1 bets t695172 (All-In),
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Quick MTT line check.
Both villain and myself playing 5k. Villain is a decent thinking player. Blinds 40/80
Folded to me in the CO and i make it 220 with 98s, BB defends
Flop is K75r. Checked to me and i bet 330, BB calls
Turn pairs the 5, board still rainbow. BB checks.
Is it a good spot to check behind or to barrel again?
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Originally posted by Flushdraw View PostQuick MTT line check.
Both villain and myself playing 5k. Villain is a decent thinking player. Blinds 40/80
Folded to me in the CO and i make it 220 with 98s, BB defends
Flop is K75r. Checked to me and i bet 330, BB calls
Turn pairs the 5, board still rainbow. BB checks.
Is it a good spot to check behind or to barrel again?
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eh a lot of it depends on the type of player to be honest. realistically when the board pairs on the turn it isnt a great barrelling card against most opponents. If you check in that spot you can nearly be always guaranteed to be facing some sort of river bet but at least then you can decide whether or not to call/fold/raise
If we bet the turn here do we have to bet rivers too?
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Was just watching it in a video, and he barrels 780 and the BB folds. His reasoning was 'the calling range from the BB includes some pairs, some Kings from 9 to Q and Ace high. He says that the BB is thinking that there's not a lot of semibluffs the CO can continue with because he's barrelled this brick that changes nothing'
Originally posted by Bubbleking View Posteh a lot of it depends on the type of player to be honest. realistically when the board pairs on the turn it isnt a great barrelling card against most opponents. If you check in that spot you can nearly be always guaranteed to be facing some sort of river bet but at least then you can decide whether or not to call/fold/raise
If we bet the turn here do we have to bet rivers too?
I suppose if we get called on the turn, we only continue if we hit the nuts and we can call a bet if we hit our 8 or 9 and think it could be good. There's also a minimal chance we're ahead of 86 i suppose. Was just thinking that it's not a standard double barrel when the board pairs and said i'd get some opinions in here
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[QUOTE=TheDrunkenOne;509892]Originally posted by Flushdraw View Postwe only continue if we hit the nuts /QUOTE]
paired board no nuts for you
paired board hard for a call if you barrel again, imho he has to fold or check raise then unless hes super strong
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Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
I suppose if we get called on the turn, we only continue if we hit the nuts and we can call a bet if we hit our 8 or 9 and think it could be good. There's also a minimal chance we're ahead of 86 i suppose. Was just thinking that it's not a standard double barrel when the board pairs and said i'd get some opinions in here
The board pairing is relatively good, as it means he can't pick up any extra equity in terms of straight draws with his pair. It's not ideal because your perceived range doesn't get any better.
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Whether or not to do it relies on so many factors. Loads of questions that are put here are so broad as to be meaningless.
Its a good bet if the villain is likely to get to the turn with a load of hands he will then fold to. Try and think of the reasons/times when this is a good or bad plan.
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trying to remember how to play cash (read as bust student trying to build a roll so I can get to a level worth playing at)
line check here with the boots
villain is 22/18 over 400 hands. fold to 3bet 73%. aggression 7.2 we have no history but he is really solid imo.
edit - I know preflop is too small its my standard when someone opens 3x but i didnt see him making it 4x
Poker Stars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
SB ($15.33)
Hero (BB) ($10)
UTG ($10.37)
MP ($8.09)
CO ($10.50)
Button ($10.43)
Preflop: Hero is BB with A, A
UTG bets $0.40, 4 folds, Hero raises $0.90, UTG calls $0.60
Flop: ($2.05) Q, 10, 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.20, UTG calls $1.20
Turn: ($4.45) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $2.20, Hero calls $2.20
River: ($8.85) K (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $3
Total pot: $8.85
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I'd be 3-betting more than that oop, both with big hands and otherwise. I'd also fire the turn also, that river really sucks but getting suck good odds I'd probably call, but not expect to be good very often, but I think we're okay just about enough to make it good."In the world, there are many kings but there is only one God. I am God, I am El Tren" :{)
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Originally posted by shano_88 View PostBet/calling the turn. #i think I fold the river. so many Jacks and 2 pairs in his range.
3bet bigger pre as you said but even If he did 3x my standard is 10bbs.
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Quick line check from memory
ITM in a 4max MicroMillion. Level 1k/2k/250.
UTG(100k)
HeroButt(225k)
SB(350k)
BB(60k)
Not sure of where we are exactly but not near enough the decent money to be worried about pay jumps. The avg is somewhere between 110k and 140k fwiw.
Hero dealt AKo
UTG limps, Hero raises to 6k
SB 3bets to 48k, UTG folds, Hero folds.
SB is a donk, plain and simple. He's been playing pretty much every pot and not well imo. Has made a couple of monster 3bets but not many and all have taken it down PF. He has changed his 3bet sizing a lot though, he's clicked it back sometimes, 2x, 3x, 4x and then the over bets thrown in for good measure. I doubt he's 3betting complete rags in general as he has flatted a lot of opens too, but no doubt he would over-value rag aces etc...I'm just not sure if he'd over value a hand with a mammoth bet like this. It's def his biggest 3bet so far btw.
I've been opening every button since it's my only spot to play a hand against him in position. And with any limper I'd still pop it up to 3x with a fairly wide range.
UTG is new to the table btw.
Does anyone flat/4b here? Is AK too strong a hand to fold 4 handed?
I tank folded thinking I've decent stack and I should be able to chip up(On a different day I might have shoved). Also I'm clueless as the range for this. If I shove do I see AQ/AJ enough of the time or will it more than likely be a flip/crushed.
I was reading another thread(the WTF sizing one) and it got me thinking about this hand.
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Smallest 4b we can make is to 90k which is strong with stacks.. If he had made it like 40k I think cib/call>shove, but idk, assuming villain is clueless to that kind of thing cib/c may still be best. Overall raise > fold >>> call as we can't really set out to avoid high variance +EV spots in a 4max"c'est en faisant n'importe quoi qu'on devient n'importe qui"
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Curious to others decisions here.
11 left, 10 payed.
Min cash €1.7k
Blinds 1200/2400/300, due to go 1500/3000/400 in 6 mins.
6 handed
Stacks -
1/200k
2/500k
3/60k
Villain/60k Button
Hero/29k SB
6/27k BB
(after blinds & antes out)
Info - Seat 2 has opened circa last 8 hands to 5.1k uncontested bar 1 reshove from villain. Other table all have over 100k each.
Folded around to button as Seat 2 has missed hand due to watching other table during the H4H process. BB (shortie's) hand is declared dead for same reason as Seat 2.
I havent seen any paint since H4H started. Had my calling range ready once I heard BB was dead (announced by TD but only really clarified as Seat 3 looked to be folding)
Villain (recent UKIPT winner) ships button. I look at A3o.
Decision?
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Originally posted by Dice75 View PostCurious to others decisions here.
11 left, 10 payed.
Min cash €1.7k
Blinds 1200/2400/300, due to go 1500/3000/400 in 6 mins.
6 handed
Stacks -
1/200k
2/500k
3/60k
Villain/60k Button
Hero/29k SB
6/27k BB
(after blinds & antes out)
Info - Seat 2 has opened circa last 8 hands to 5.1k uncontested bar 1 reshove from villain. Other table all have over 100k each.
Folded around to button as Seat 2 has missed hand due to watching other table during the H4H process. BB (shortie's) hand is declared dead for same reason as Seat 2.
I havent seen any paint since H4H started. Had my calling range ready once I heard BB was dead (announced by TD but only really clarified as Seat 3 looked to be folding)
Villain (recent UKIPT winner) ships button. I look at A3o.
Decision?
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Originally posted by Dice75 View PostCurious to others decisions here.
11 left, 10 payed.
Min cash €1.7k
Blinds 1200/2400/300, due to go 1500/3000/400 in 6 mins.
6 handed
Stacks -
1/200k
2/500k
3/60k
Villain/60k Button
Hero/29k SB
6/27k BB
(after blinds & antes out)
Info - Seat 2 has opened circa last 8 hands to 5.1k uncontested bar 1 reshove from villain. Other table all have over 100k each.
Folded around to button as Seat 2 has missed hand due to watching other table during the H4H process. BB (shortie's) hand is declared dead for same reason as Seat 2.
I havent seen any paint since H4H started. Had my calling range ready once I heard BB was dead (announced by TD but only really clarified as Seat 3 looked to be folding)
Villain (recent UKIPT winner) ships button. I look at A3o.
Decision?
Its a call from me anyhow id be calling with any pair an jq+ here.
The guy is decent he should really be shoving any 2 here and your ahead of any 2 cards. here.
At the moment its looking like your or the bb for the bubble and im sure with the 500k stack your blinds are going to get attacked regularly.
I can see peoples reasons for folding but i think its a call.
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I'd fold here on the bubble. You're ahead of his shoving range, but even if he shoves blind, you're still only 56% to win the hand. Even if he shoves 80% of hands, you're still only 53% to win. I'm not sure how comfortable your roll is, but if i'm going to bust on a €1.7k bubble over 45% of the time, i think i fold. I know we shouldn't be playing the game if we can't afford to bubble blah blah, but it's a fold for me and i feel quite good about it.
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Originally posted by Flushdraw View PostI'd fold here on the bubble. You're ahead of his shoving range, but even if he shoves blind, you're still only 56% to win the hand. Even if he shoves 80% of hands, you're still only 53% to win. I'm not sure how comfortable your roll is, but if i'm going to bust on a €1.7k bubble over 45% of the time, i think i fold. I know we shouldn't be playing the game if we can't afford to bubble blah blah, but it's a fold for me and i feel quite good about it.
Problem is going forward that CL is going to keep opening every hand & with very few going to play back against him do you really want to be stuck in a race to the bottom with the shortie to my left to min cash (even if you were desperate for the min cash) hoping to pick up a premium hand?
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Originally posted by Moneymaker View PostI prob CiB to try induce him to spazz. I'd be making a very small 4bet anyway.
Folding there is WAYYYYYYYYYYY too nitty.Originally posted by Hurricane Fly View PostJam on him. You'll need all the chips to win so get his nowOriginally posted by Winning! View PostSmallest 4b we can make is to 90k which is strong with stacks.. If he had made it like 40k I think cib/call>shove, but idk, assuming villain is clueless to that kind of thing cib/c may still be best. Overall raise > fold >>> call as we can't really set out to avoid high variance +EV spots in a 4max
What range would you be happy getting it in with here?
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Originally posted by Caf View PostThanks lads.
What range would you be happy getting it in with here?"c'est en faisant n'importe quoi qu'on devient n'importe qui"
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Originally posted by Dice75 View PostWanted to hear the fold argument.
Problem is going forward that CL is going to keep opening every hand & with very few going to play back against him do you really want to be stuck in a race to the bottom with the shortie to my left to min cash (even if you were desperate for the min cash) hoping to pick up a premium hand?
We don't have a lot of FE with 12bigs, and not much more than we'd have with 8bigs which would be probably be in about 6/7 hands. I don't mind getting the chips in with A3 but wouldn't be calling it off. If you were to fold to 20k and then get your double up, you'd be putting pressure on the 2 smaller stacks. I wouldn't drop to much more than this before getting them in. The possible plus (or negative point) is that both yourself and the other shortie would be pushing into the 2 biggest stacks on your left so there's a definite possibility that both could call to either bust or triple up either of you.
If the mincash doesn't mean much to you, calling there is the right play as it gives you a better chance of going deeper, but if you'd like to lock up a cash before going for it, then i'd tighten my calling range and hope to pick up a top 15% hand to get them in with. TLS ftw
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Originally posted by Flushdraw View Postbut a mincash of €1.7k would allow me to pay for entry into the UKIPT Dublin, Killarney and 2 Fitz EOMs.
You absolutely have to call here.
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Originally posted by Hurricane Fly View PostAnd then what, do the same in those events. You don't get down to the final 10/11 players often enough to pass up this kind of edge when your short.
You absolutely have to call here.
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We're marginally ahead nearly all of the time here,I think we all agree on that.
However,I'm always folding here. Would all of you who are saying snap put 1700 on a (slightly weighted) coin flip?
It just depends what 1.7k means to you I guess.My calling range is very tight on this bubble but my shoving range will be relatively wide when folded to me since we have two ways of winning.
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Originally posted by zuutroy View PostI'd imagine he should be theoretically shipping with ATC here so A3 is the nuts.Originally posted by Hurricane Fly View PostSnappageOriginally posted by SICKPUPPY View PostIts a call from me anyhow id be calling with any pair an jq+ here.
The guy is decent he should really be shoving any 2 here and your ahead of any 2 cards. here.
At the moment its looking like your or the bb for the bubble and im sure with the 500k stack your blinds are going to get attacked regularly.
I can see peoples reasons for folding but i think its a call.Originally posted by Bubbleking View Postah yeah easy enough call with A3 so. Bubble factor considered Id imagine Q9 is the cutoff here? In a vacuum is it Q3 sooooted?Originally posted by Flushdraw View PostI'd fold here on the bubble. You're ahead of his shoving range, but even if he shoves blind, you're still only 56% to win the hand. Even if he shoves 80% of hands, you're still only 53% to win. I'm not sure how comfortable your roll is, but if i'm going to bust on a €1.7k bubble over 45% of the time, i think i fold. I know we shouldn't be playing the game if we can't afford to bubble blah blah, but it's a fold for me and i feel quite good about it.Originally posted by Bubbleboy View PostWe're marginally ahead nearly all of the time here,I think we all agree on that.
However,I'm always folding here. Would all of you who are saying snap put 1700 on a (slightly weighted) coin flip?
It just depends what 1.7k means to you I guess.My calling range is very tight on this bubble but my shoving range will be relatively wide when folded to me since we have two ways of winning.
He had 95o which flipped better. Next time I'll call quicker as its due to hold
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€160 game in Maynooth and we're down to 18 with 15 paid. Payouts are a little funky until we get to the FT where 9th is bagging €400 and then it starts to jump a little with €4100 up top. There's also 4 of us left in the last longest which is €180 and would probably get chopped 2 ways, maybe 3 if that makes any difference.
I've been quite enough since 25 left, and lost 1 hand with A9<A6 AIPF to leave me on 135k with blinds 3k/6k/500. I'm probably about 10/18 at this stage
Chris (AKDonk) opens UTG to 18k. It's the first time i've seen him 3x open but it looked a bit like a semi tilt open as he's lost the last 2 hands he played and probably dropped ~100k in those 2 hands. He's been opening 2.2-2.5x up to that stage. I look down at AQs UTG+1?
First instinct was to shove, 2nd instinct was to flat as i'd imagine that it would oversell the strength of my hand because he wouldn't expect me to flat there unless i'm trapping, and i didn't have a 3rd instinct tbh. I ended up raise/calling but seeing as this is a spot that comes up a bit in tournaments a bit, does anyone have a general line here?
Shove >Raise call >Call >Fold
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Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
Shove >Raise call >Call >Fold
Given that there was 3 micro stacks (5-10 bigs) left trying to fold to the money I might go with the flat call here.... I might put up my AK hand later
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Guest
Quick one. Guy was playing 36/22 with 59% steal. Had previously r/c me with J8o for 13bb eff. Ante is 100
Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $1,000(BB) Replayer
SB ($132,170)
Hero ($19,050)
UTG ($74,131)
UTG+1 ($1,746)
CO ($32,560)
BTN ($93,784)
Dealt to Hero J Q
fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to $2,500Last edited by Guest; 08-04-12, 19:49.
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Guest
One more: Guy playing 29/16 over 50 with one 3bet so far.
Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $300(BB) Replayer
SB ($6,370)
BB ($6,725)
UTG ($5,553)
UTG+1 ($13,505)
Hero ($9,195)
MP1 ($24,702)
CO ($22,628)
BTN ($7,228)
Dealt to Hero A:heart: Q:spade:
fold, fold, Hero raises to $740, fold, CO raises to $1,800,
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Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post€160 game in Maynooth and we're down to 18 with 15 paid. Payouts are a little funky until we get to the FT where 9th is bagging €400 and then it starts to jump a little with €4100 up top. There's also 4 of us left in the last longest which is €180 and would probably get chopped 2 ways, maybe 3 if that makes any difference.
I've been quite enough since 25 left, and lost 1 hand with A9<A6 AIPF to leave me on 135k with blinds 3k/6k/500. I'm probably about 10/18 at this stage
Chris (AKDonk) opens UTG to 18k. It's the first time i've seen him 3x open but it looked a bit like a semi tilt open as he's lost the last 2 hands he played and probably dropped ~100k in those 2 hands. He's been opening 2.2-2.5x up to that stage. I look down at AQs UTG+1?
First instinct was to shove, 2nd instinct was to flat as i'd imagine that it would oversell the strength of my hand because he wouldn't expect me to flat there unless i'm trapping, and i didn't have a 3rd instinct tbh. I ended up raise/calling but seeing as this is a spot that comes up a bit in tournaments a bit, does anyone have a general line here?
Shove >Raise call >Call >Fold
As ste said. Shove is probably best play against me here as I wake up with a9s+, 55s+ and garbage the odd time due to the tiltiness. I also thought it a bit strange that you didn't shove and left ~40k behind.
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Originally posted by AKDonk View PostTBH. I was a bit tilted by the previous hands but I don't remember 3xing here. My standard open for the tourney was min 2.1-2.25x, 2.5x with 1 limper and 3x with 2. If I did 3x it was a mistake.
As ste said. Shove is probably best play against me here as I wake up with a9s+, 55s+ and garbage the odd time due to the tiltiness. I also thought it a bit strange that you didn't shove and left ~40k behind.
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Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post€160 game in Maynooth and we're down to 18 with 15 paid. Payouts are a little funky until we get to the FT where 9th is bagging €400 and then it starts to jump a little with €4100 up top. There's also 4 of us left in the last longest which is €180 and would probably get chopped 2 ways, maybe 3 if that makes any difference.
I've been quite enough since 25 left, and lost 1 hand with A9<A6 AIPF to leave me on 135k with blinds 3k/6k/500. I'm probably about 10/18 at this stage
Chris (AKDonk) opens UTG to 18k. It's the first time i've seen him 3x open but it looked a bit like a semi tilt open as he's lost the last 2 hands he played and probably dropped ~100k in those 2 hands. He's been opening 2.2-2.5x up to that stage. I look down at AQs UTG+1?
First instinct was to shove, 2nd instinct was to flat as i'd imagine that it would oversell the strength of my hand because he wouldn't expect me to flat there unless i'm trapping, and i didn't have a 3rd instinct tbh. I ended up raise/calling but seeing as this is a spot that comes up a bit in tournaments a bit, does anyone have a general line here?
Shove >Raise call >Call >Fold
I don't hate getting it in pre in these circumstances, but given that anotehr poster said there were 3 shorties trying to fold to the money, I think I would prefer to go after their dwindlling stacks which your 22bb stack probably lets you do.
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Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post€160 game in Maynooth and we're down to 18 with 15 paid. Payouts are a little funky until we get to the FT where 9th is bagging €400 and then it starts to jump a little with €4100 up top. There's also 4 of us left in the last longest which is €180 and would probably get chopped 2 ways, maybe 3 if that makes any difference.
I've been quite enough since 25 left, and lost 1 hand with A9<A6 AIPF to leave me on 135k with blinds 3k/6k/500. I'm probably about 10/18 at this stage
Chris (AKDonk) opens UTG to 18k. It's the first time i've seen him 3x open but it looked a bit like a semi tilt open as he's lost the last 2 hands he played and probably dropped ~100k in those 2 hands. He's been opening 2.2-2.5x up to that stage. I look down at AQs UTG+1?
First instinct was to shove, 2nd instinct was to flat as i'd imagine that it would oversell the strength of my hand because he wouldn't expect me to flat there unless i'm trapping, and i didn't have a 3rd instinct tbh. I ended up raise/calling but seeing as this is a spot that comes up a bit in tournaments a bit, does anyone have a general line here?
Shove >Raise call >Call >Fold
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