General Poker Thread

[Theresa]

Isn't that the opposite of what you want?

Smaller pot:stack ratio in position FTW I would have thought...

I guess I should have said, most of, if not all the time I'll rarely try and steal against a big fish! No need! Wait for a hand and raise big for value because they'll call with worse and it makes it easier to get the dough in.

[Emmet]

Where are you playing atm Emmett? Still on iPoker?

yup, can't ignore the deal I have, considering I only play ~ 5/10 days a month...

Only played 4k hands last month

[Emmet]

Thoughts on this hand. It all went a bit jammy when I decided that the pot was getting too big to play mtw, and wanted to fold out the pfr and play vs the other guy.

Is my CR a bad play here? I have to put one of them on at least TPgk and the other probably on a draw, combos, fds and straight draws..

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($22.60)
Button ($27.37)
Hero (SB) ($35.03)
BB ($21.93)
UTG ($27.72)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, J
UTG bets $0.80, MP calls $0.80, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.70, 1 fold

Flop: ($2.60) 8, J, 10 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $1.60, MP calls $1.60, Hero raises $4.60, UTG calls $3, MP raises $20.20 (All-In), Hero folds, UTG calls $17.20

Turn: ($50.80) A (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($50.80) Q (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $50.80

[Bubbleking]

I hate these spots. opinions on how this was played? this is only my 3rd round of the table so no notes on villain. hes 36/36 and has opened every BTN so far - means nothing really but anyway

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Party-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (SB) ($26.29)
UTG ($8.09)
MP ($25.90)
CO ($26.94)
BB ($25.35)
Button ($25.50)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, Q
3 folds, Button bets $0.75, Hero raises $2.90, 1 fold, Button raises $6.75, Hero calls $4.50

Flop: ($15.25) 3, 9, 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $9.50, Hero raises $18.79 (All-In)

Total pot: $34.25

[Guest]

Ship preflop, get it in as played. Non-event of a hand. QQ btn vs blind is just one to chalk up to variance.

[Bubbleking]

Ship preflop, get it in as played. Non-event of a hand. QQ btn vs blind is just one to chalk up to variance.

merits to shipping pre over flatting the 4bet?

[Guest]

merits to shipping pre over flatting the 4bet?

flatting 4bets is pointless. You shouldnt be putting in 30% of your stack and folding unless you're bluffing and calling ain't bluffing. If you flat it and the flop contains an A or a K you stand to miss out on all the money you would have made vs JJ if he was feeling frisky and wanted to get that in. Also because he's IP you'll get bluffed off the best hand on such flops a ton by his 4b bluffs.

[Bubbleking]

flatting 4bets is pointless. You shouldnt be putting in 30% of your stack and folding unless you're bluffing and calling ain't bluffing. If you flat it and the flop contains an A or a K you stand to miss out on all the money you would have made vs JJ if he was feeling frisky and wanted to get that in. Also because he's IP you'll get bluffed off the best hand on such flops a ton by his 4b bluffs.

cool thanks my line of thinking was way off

[Emmet]

Thoughts on this hand. It all went a bit jammy when I decided that the pot was getting too big to play mtw, and wanted to fold out the pfr and play vs the other guy.

Is my CR a bad play here? I have to put one of them on at least TPgk and the other probably on a draw, combos, fds and straight draws..

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($22.60)
Button ($27.37)
Hero (SB) ($35.03)
BB ($21.93)
UTG ($27.72)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, J
UTG bets $0.80, MP calls $0.80, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.70, 1 fold

Flop: ($2.60) 8, J, 10 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $1.60, MP calls $1.60, Hero raises $4.60, UTG calls $3, MP raises $20.20 (All-In), Hero folds, UTG calls $17.20

Turn: ($50.80) A (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($50.80) Q (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $50.80

BUMP the above
and question this

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($5.22)
CO ($6.60)
Hero (Button) ($58.52)
SB ($20.10)
BB ($20)
UTG ($20.58)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5, 5
2 folds, CO bets $0.60, Hero calls $0.60, 1 fold, BB raises $2.80, 1 fold, [color=#CC3333]Hero ???

3better is a very liberal squeezer. AT+ and KJ+ in his range to squeeze here.

I can't call profitably, do I fold, do I 4bet, or do I shove?

[Bubbleking]

Thoughts on this hand. It all went a bit jammy when I decided that the pot was getting too big to play mtw, and wanted to fold out the pfr and play vs the other guy.

Is my CR a bad play here? I have to put one of them on at least TPgk and the other probably on a draw, combos, fds and straight draws..

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($22.60)
Button ($27.37)
Hero (SB) ($35.03)
BB ($21.93)
UTG ($27.72)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, J
UTG bets $0.80, MP calls $0.80, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.70, 1 fold

Flop: ($2.60) 8, J, 10 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $1.60, MP calls $1.60, Hero raises $4.60, UTG calls $3, MP raises $20.20 (All-In), Hero folds, UTG calls $17.20

Turn: ($50.80) A (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($50.80) Q (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $50.80

I dont think I raise the flop emmet you have a strong hand with backdoor equity but I think its better to pot control right now

BUMP the above
and question this

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($5.22)
CO ($6.60)
Hero (Button) ($58.52)
SB ($20.10)
BB ($20)
UTG ($20.58)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5, 5
2 folds, CO bets $0.60, Hero calls $0.60, 1 fold, BB raises $2.80, 1 fold, [color=#CC3333]Hero ???

3better is a very liberal squeezer. AT+ and KJ+ in his range to squeeze here.

I can't call profitably, do I fold, do I 4bet, or do I shove?

why cant you call? I think that's the best option here

[Emmet]

effective stacks at 100bbs, playing my hand as a bluff catcher is going to be incredibly tough considering his entire range is face cards.

I don't get paid enough when I hit my set to make it profitable to setmine, and I don't have the odds to setmine either.

[Guest]

Calling there is brutal. You've got about 50c in implied odds when you hit if he's a serial squeezer. Just fold, your hand is pretty much face up as a middling PP when you backraise here, and he can play accordingly. Flat AA next time and back raise. Easy game.

In the other hand I'd just flat, board sucks and you're crushed or flipping when you get it in. I'd call now as you have an overlay and he never plays a strong made hand like that unless Qc9c.

[Theresa]

The AJ hand you overplayed your hand somewhat. Deciding the pot is too big to play multiway and then raising for that reason doesnt make any sense.

Second hand. Yeah dont ever ever call. Just fold. Easy game.

[Emmet]

No support for a backraise all in?

Has to have a decent amount of FE, when we're called we're flipping mostly, and crushed the odd time. He 3bets say JJ+ AT+ and KJ+. Say he folds AT/AJ and KJ, and calls with the rest.

That's definitely a +EV play?

EDIT - 55=22=99 here. Would you fold 99 in this spot?

[Emmet]

The AJ hand you overplayed your hand somewhat. Deciding the pot is too big to play multiway and then raising for that reason doesnt make any sense.
.

mtw and soaking wet board were the reasons.

I call, and the turn comes a club, I'm almost always c/f. Turn comes a 9,T,Q and I'm c/f too.

Maybe pot controlling is the best line here, and knowing that I will have to fold on later streets a hell of a lot of the time?

[Theresa]

mtw and soaking wet board were the reasons.

I call, and the turn comes a club, I'm almost always c/f. Turn comes a 9,T,Q and I'm c/f too.

Maybe pot controlling is the best line here, and knowing that I will have to fold on later streets a hell of a lot of the time?

Primarily, You're either raising for value, or as a bluff? Pick one?

Then, you might raise for protection sometimes too(its player dependent), but raising for protection when an UTG raiser was called in two spots and cbet on a board like this and was called usually means someones not going to fold and against any realistic range for this spot. You're goosed. Especially at 20nl. So you've effectively turned a hand with a hell of a lot of showdown value into a bluff.

Yeah I'd call and then your playing poker.

[Bubbleking]

I dont think flatting the 55 hand is overly bad considering we have position - but I do suck

[Guest]

No support for a backraise all in?

Has to have a decent amount of FE, when we're called we're flipping mostly, and crushed the odd time. He 3bets say JJ+ AT+ and KJ+. Say he folds AT/AJ and KJ, and calls with the rest.

That's definitely a +EV play?

EDIT - 55=22=99 here. Would you fold 99 in this spot?

if he folds 30% of the time and you've 40% when called then:

EV when he folds: = 0.3 x $4.10 = $1.23

EV when he calls = 0.7 x [(0.4 x 21.2)-(0.6 x 19.4)] = -$2.21

so total EV is -$1 or so. Even if you're in better shape or he folds more often, its still just a variance fest for no gain.

[tipp86]

What to do here ? Villian is 20/16 3 bet 2.8 no notes and thats over 500 hands


No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($18.25)
MP ($50.75)
CO ($113.45)
Button ($50.60)
SB ($56.74)
Hero (BB) ($142.51)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, J
3 folds, Button bets $1.50, 1 fold, Hero raises $4, Button raises $49.10 (All-In), 1 fold

Total pot: $9.25


Any thoughts on this hand bit of an annoying one.

My thoughts

Flop - folding has to be seen as very weak

Turn - guess here is where the debate begins really. Should i flat his bet again on the turn is raising bad?

Villian is 19/15/3.0


No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($164.86)
CO ($76.06)
Button ($50.75)
SB ($32.94)
BB ($70.26)
Hero (UTG) ($93.27)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q, Q
Hero bets $2, 1 fold, CO calls $2, 3 folds

Flop: ($4.75) 9, 8, 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $2.50, CO raises $7.50, Hero calls $5

Turn: ($19.75) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $14, Hero raises $31, CO calls $17

River: ($81.75) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $52.77 (All-In), CO calls $35.56 (All-In)

Total pot: $152.87

[Emmet]

Hand 1, 3bet to 5.50. Folding is good to a 4bet shove without any reads.

Hand 2, Cbet bigger, 3.25/3.50, call the raise. as there's tonnes of hands he raises there we're still ahead of.

I probably lead the turn though. He has to have a lot of FDs in his hand, and checking allows him to take a free card.

67 and JT are the only hands you're losing to, and 55,77,99 and some combos are all calling a turn lead and maybe even raising.
If you C/R the turn, you have to shove river imo. He has sets and JJ way more than he has straights.

[Opr]

1. Snapping the 4bet Button Vs Blinds. Don't 3bet if you not going to get it in.

2. Fine apart from maybe bet sizing. I would fold flop against some people as its a horrible spot to be OOP with the streets to run on that board when raised. I would also think about checking the flop sometimes.

Opr

[Guest]

1. I fold and 3b bigger. @ opr: you're not getting nearly the right price here.
To make a profit in this spot he has to be capable of doing this with 99+ and KQ+ which is dreamland with no history imo. I don't mind the 3b as he will continue with worse but only shove better/flipping hands.


2. Deepish and oop I'm happy enough to fold to the flop raise. His range has got you crushed.


Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

19,800 games 0.034 secs 582,352 games/sec

Board: 9s 5h 8h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 24.081% 23.49% 00.59% 4652 116.00 { QdQs }
Hand 1: 75.919% 75.33% 00.59% 14916 116.00 { 99-88, 55, AhQh, AhJh, AhTh, Ah9h, KhQh, KhJh, JhTh, 76s }

Don't like leading as he can correctly fold his FD's and he's likely to barrel I think. Raise sizing is meh you're nearly pricing him in, just ship.
Checking the flop just gives him open season to barrel and put us in terribad spots so dont like that either.

[Opr]

1. I fold and 3b bigger. @ opr: you're not getting nearly the right price here.
To make a profit in this spot he has to be capable of doing this with 99+ and KQ+ which is dreamland with no history imo. I don't mind the 3b as he will continue with worse but only shove better/flipping hands.

You may be right but I think loads of the time people show up with tonnes of retarded stuff in these spots button versus blinds. Value hands are heavily weighted towards AQ/AK since he shoved. I think you very rarely see KK/AA but do see QQ a fair bit. Also Villain shoving means its likely he at least has retarded tendencies

If he 4bets normally do you fold Zuu ?

Opr

[Guest]

I shove AA there the odd time to make it look like AK so people spazz with weaker pairs then they normally would when you plant that seed of doubt, but there would have to be history or a perception that I was tilted. I've also seen people do it with AA and KK a bit lately.
If he 4b to a reguar size I'd be more inclined to shove as people have 4b bluffs but no one has 4b bluff shoves, but really getting JJ in pre- in a low stakes game is probably breakeven at best, but good for image concerns if there's a smallish player pool or if you've a lot of history with the guy. I don't hate 3bet/folding it just to save the variance

[digiman]

Im snapping the JJ hand. Would never even enter my head to fold. I think people in this forum should start calling more!!!

[Sledgejammer]

Yeah I hadn't even considered folding when I read it tbh. I think the shove definitely takes some combos of AA and KK out, and increases the likelyhood of AK or a medium pair that the villain will find too tricky to play so just shoves, especially at a lower level.

[Opr]

"Save the variance" - you should be embracing the variance

btw would like both some more views on this hand. I think its one of the most interesting hands posted lately.

http://www.irishpokerboards.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6281

Opr

[Bubbleking]

"Save the variance" - you should be embracing the variance

btw would like both some more views on this hand. I think its one of the most interesting hands posted lately.

http://www.irishpokerboards.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6281

Opr

that hand is just a cold deck there is nothing you can do about it

[Opr]

that hand is just a cold deck there is nothing you can do about it

Your completely wrong. The way the action has gone its hard to have any worse value hands than ours.

Opr

[Caf]

that hand is just a cold deck there is nothing you can do about it

Is it really? Should we get to the turn at all? How good is our hand to a reraise on he flop v an unknown?

I've been thinking about it a good bit and tbh wish I had thought about it for a while longer before posting in the thread.

I definitely don't think it can be written off to a cold deck since we are not short stacked and facing someone else who isn't either.

The more I think about it the more I think it's a fold on the flop.

[Opr]

Is it really? Should we get to the turn at all? How good is our hand to a reraise on he flop v an unknown?

I've been thinking about it a good bit and tbh wish I had thought about it for a while longer before posting in the thread.

I definitely don't think it can be written off to a cold deck since we are not short stacked and facing someone else who isn't either.

The more I think about it the more I think it's a fold on the flop.

While I agree with with your post in general I don't think we can ever fold on the flop. Its pretty in vogue at the moment to raise dry A high boards as a bluff and it always was something people like to do so I thinking calling the flop is mandatory. The turn only changes our hand in respect of the weighting you assign villain having A2 and A6 (Surely this is small calling a raise from UTG) and maybe some spaz weighting towards AK. That means he needs to have a pretty big bluffing range on the turn.

Opr

[Caf]

While I agree with with your post in general I don't think we can ever fold on the flop. Its pretty in vogue at the moment to raise dry A high boards as a bluff and it always was something people like to do so I thinking calling the flop is mandatory. The turn only changes our hand in respect of the weighting you assign villain having A2 and A6 (Surely this is small calling a raise from UTG) and maybe some spaz weighting towards AK. That means he needs to have a pretty big bluffing range on the turn.

Opr

We have no read/history though, and for this reason I think it's better to play it safe(even though I've often 'donked' here myself).

We do have a nice stack to go deep and win it.

I agree with mellor that we should be making our decision on the flop.

Like you, I would be interested to hear what others think about the hand.

[AndyFatBastard]

What to do here ? Villian is 20/16 3 bet 2.8 no notes and thats over 500 hands


No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($18.25)
MP ($50.75)
CO ($113.45)
Button ($50.60)
SB ($56.74)
Hero (BB) ($142.51)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, J
3 folds, Button bets $1.50, 1 fold, Hero raises $4, Button raises $49.10 (All-In), 1 fold

Total pot: $9.25

Easy fold for me. A guy 3betting 2.8% over 500 hands is highly unlikely to be 4bet overbet bluffing. Make a note against the player and move on.

Any thoughts on this hand bit of an annoying one.

My thoughts

Flop - folding has to be seen as very weak

Turn - guess here is where the debate begins really. Should i flat his bet again on the turn is raising bad?

Villian is 19/15/3.0


No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($164.86)
CO ($76.06)
Button ($50.75)
SB ($32.94)
BB ($70.26)
Hero (UTG) ($93.27)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q, Q
Hero bets $2, 1 fold, CO calls $2, 3 folds

Flop: ($4.75) 9, 8, 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $2.50, CO raises $7.50, Hero calls $5

Turn: ($19.75) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $14, Hero raises $31, CO calls $17

River: ($81.75) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $52.77 (All-In), CO calls $35.56 (All-In)

Total pot: $152.87

Yeah I would definitely flat the turn hoping to boat up and evaluate river. I don't hate the raise, but you have to accept that sometimes villian has already made a straight when you do it. I'm never folding on the flop. Villian is aggro and his range is still wide open.

[Guest]

Im snapping the JJ hand. Would never even enter my head to fold. I think people in this forum should start calling more!!!

When you're of the keyboard smashing disposition like me, you're better off to steer away from the close spots that lead to 20 buyin swings either way that you enjoy so much!

[Guest]

Yeah I hadn't even considered folding when I read it tbh. I think the shove definitely takes some combos of AA and KK out, and increases the likelyhood of AK or a medium pair that the villain will find too tricky to play so just shoves, especially at a lower level.

If you take out most combos of AA and KK and leave in all of AK,AQ,QQ,JJ, TT, 99 then we're about 52%. Close enough I guess. Just seems to me there are plenty of guys who are equally happy not to even play a flop with AA and risk having it 'cracked' as there are those who do it with 99.
Certainly every time I call here they have it!

[digiman]

People shove here with 22 upwards, I seen Krantz or one of those guys do this in a video before so no doubt more people are doing it now as well.

[Bubbleking]

Is it really? Should we get to the turn at all? How good is our hand to a reraise on he flop v an unknown?

I've been thinking about it a good bit and tbh wish I had thought about it for a while longer before posting in the thread.

I definitely don't think it can be written off to a cold deck since we are not short stacked and facing someone else who isn't either.

The more I think about it the more I think it's a fold on the flop.

well we cant fold flop because we have decent equity against villain whos range is still pretty wide.

I dont think we can fold the turn because we are behind 3 combos of 22 and 3 of 66 - I think villain reraises AA pre and I doubt he raises the flop with QQ. we are ahead of 4 combos of AK and 2 of AJ (assuming villain raises AJ and continues on turn 1/2 of the time) we are also chopping with the other 2 combos of AQ.

So thats 6 times we are behind, 6 times we are in front and twice we are chopping. It leans more to us being in front if you throw in some random bluffs and worse 2 pair hands that the villain might have.

[digiman]

Any thoughts on this hand bit of an annoying one.

My thoughts

Flop - folding has to be seen as very weak

Turn - guess here is where the debate begins really. Should i flat his bet again on the turn is raising bad?

Villian is 19/15/3.0


No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($164.86)
CO ($76.06)
Button ($50.75)
SB ($32.94)
BB ($70.26)
Hero (UTG) ($93.27)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q, Q
Hero bets $2, 1 fold, CO calls $2, 3 folds

Flop: ($4.75) 9, 8, 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $2.50, CO raises $7.50, Hero calls $5

Turn: ($19.75) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $14, Hero raises $31, CO calls $17

River: ($81.75) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $52.77 (All-In), CO calls $35.56 (All-In)

Total pot: $152.87

That flop bet sizes is really bad, are you trying to induce something by it? I would rather check than bet that amount. You should be betting $4 here. I don't like the turn CR, you are repping JT when you do that, you have kinda over repped your hand here, its not that strong anymore on this board and its going to be hard to see him call you light here. Some of the people on here would probably say to 67 is now a fold if they were the villan
I would rather turn my hand into a bluff catcher from here, there are way more combos of hands that beat us than we beat when he calls imo.

[Theresa]

People need to realise that because a range is wide, it doesn't meant it cat have us crushed.

In the QQ hand, the range at which he value raises has us crushed, his semi bluffs have us in a very very marginal spot with 2 street to come and he is quite aggro making it very hard for us to profit.

He doesn't stone cold bluff here very often at all. Tipp opened UTG so it makes him less likely to try a bluff in this spot given the weighting on tipps range.

[Emmet]

Emmet opened UTG so it makes him less likely to try a bluff in this spot given the weighting on emmets range.

What chu talkin bout willis?

[Guest]

People shove here with 22 upwards, I seen Krantz or one of those guys do this in a video before so no doubt more people are doing it now as well.

at 50nl? Jaysus I'm out of the loop. That shit didn't even happen much at 400nl 2 years ago

[Guest]

67 is now a fold if they were the villan
I would rather turn my hand into a bluff catcher from here, there are way more combos of hands that beat us than we beat when he calls imo.

8 combos of straights and 9 of sets and no one ever folds sets so I'm ok with it.

[digiman]

at 50nl? Jaysus I'm out of the loop. That shit didn't even happen much at 400nl 2 years ago

Well I don't play 50nl, so maybe my replies are out on based on that. But I think people just disregard the fact that people do crazy shit a lot more often that they think and the only way you see it is when you call them down a lot. Like for all you know this guy is after getting 3b the last 3 hands in a row on other tables and has folded and now he sees 33 and is like ship it in here. Like hes IP, it would be a pretty bad player that 4b shoves QQ+ here, just makes no sense to do that, and if you think he would make a bad play like that with QQ+ well then why don't you think that he would do the same with 22+. To ever think of folding here is just crazy talk.

[AndyFatBastard]

at 50nl? Jaysus I'm out of the loop. That shit didn't even happen much at 400nl 2 years ago

I've just moved up after 60k hands of 50nl Rush on FT and I can safely say that this is not happening. The worst hand I've seen all in pre was KQs and it was me holding it. (I had a solid read and was priced in). I mean I still make a note on a player if I see them get AK all in pre.

[Emmet]

I mean I still make a note on a player if I see them get AK all in pre.

+1, especially people calling 5bet shoves with AK.

Nobody 4bets light, less 5bet light.

The regs are crazy weak tight at 50nl and down.

[Bubbleking]

+1, especially people calling 5bet shoves with AK.

Nobody 4bets light, less 5bet light.

The regs are crazy weak tight at 50nl and down.

oh thats me thats me

[Guest]

Rush is some craic. I put $50 on just to try it out and spun it up to $250 in 1k hands or so. I've seen at least two people 4b shove with AA and KK. What do you make of it Andy, better than 10 tabling ipoker with high RB? Certainly seems fishy enough. People don't seem to fight for pots in it. You wouldn't be doing much wrong by raising every flop where you called a raise pre imo!

[colquhom]

Rush is some craic. I put $50 on just to try it out and spun it up to $250 in 1k hands or so. I've seen at least two people 4b shove with AA and KK. What do you make of it Andy, better than 10 tabling ipoker with high RB? Certainly seems fishy enough. People don't seem to fight for pots in it. You wouldn't be doing much wrong by raising every flop where you called a raise pre imo!

Rush is the greatest thing thats ever happened. Its so easy to gt in 6K hands plus a day, not having to worry about getting on waitlists and all the associated bullshit makes everything so much easier, I also don't really gameselect so it also makes me feel less guilty about not doing so as everyone is on a level playing field in that regard. The only bad thing is that lately they moved to some weird contributed method of rakeback thats different to the ipoker contributed method that you take a huge rakeback hit if u dont play like 32/28. Like you prob drop from 27% to 20% rb which is pretty terrible and i don't play nitty at all, the nittier you play the worse it is. If you 12 table + on ipoker it may not be worth it, but anything less and theres no contest IMO.

[AndyFatBastard]

Rush is some craic. I put $50 on just to try it out and spun it up to $250 in 1k hands or so. I've seen at least two people 4b shove with AA and KK. What do you make of it Andy, better than 10 tabling ipoker with high RB? Certainly seems fishy enough. People don't seem to fight for pots in it. You wouldn't be doing much wrong by raising every flop where you called a raise pre imo!

Rush is great for two reasons:

1. No table selection - The fish come to you, tables never fall apart, it doesn't take an hour to get a game dynamic going and you're never stuck with someone tricky to your left.

2. Easily exploitable players who think that nobody's using HEM so they can 3bet 20% and raise every flop.

[Bubbleking]

I dont like rush. I prefer 4 tabling normal 6 max.

[shano_88]

Im playing 25nl and I have regulars stacking off with aj/a10 bvb and bu vs blinds. I think people are becoming alot more aggro in theses spots.

[bp_me]

What do you make of it Andy, better than 10 tabling ipoker with high RB?

Over 7.7k hands at 5NL I have paid $30 in rake in this month. This is $8.10 in rb ignoring the effective rb from other bonuses. A looser player would obviously earn a lot more but you can extrapolate from there.

[digiman]

8 tabling rush is nice, 1500+ hands in an hour is hard to beat.

[Bubbleking]

8 tabling rush is nice, 1500+ hands in an hour is hard to beat.

If I play over 400 hands an hour my win rate is directly proportional to the amount of extra hands I play. My head gets fried and I cant concentrate.

I also never play a session longer than 70 minutes unless I have a Jesus seat as I need to clear my head and go again

[AndyFatBastard]

+1, especially people calling 5bet shoves with AK.

Nobody 4bets light, less 5bet light.

The regs are crazy weak tight at 50nl and down.

Yeah 4bet bluffing is the business at 50nl. So many guys are 3betting 8%+ and never 5 bet bluffing. So very, very profitable.

[Emmet]

Over 7.7k hands at 5NL I have paid $30 in rake in this month. This is $8.10 in rb ignoring the effective rb from other bonuses. A looser player would obviously earn a lot more but you can extrapolate from there.

You can't really extrapolate, as the rake changes as you move up. You're definitely paying more rake as a percentage of a buyin than someone playin 25nl for instance.

There's a great comparison page on pokertableratings.com but I can't link it on my phone

[colquhom]

Oh, also another possible negative point is that you can play in Euros on ipoker and not on FT obv, as its obv nice to play at a technically higher stake with the same level of competition. I tried to do a bunch of calculations when it first came out to see which was better and its almost impossible to have the same hourly non-rush unless you mega mega multitable even with the higher rb and higher currency denominations. And i cant play more than 8 tables w/o my head exploding so its a no brainer i think.

[Emmet]

Yeah 4bet bluffing is the business at 50nl. So many guys are 3betting 8%+ and never 5 bet bluffing. So very, very profitable.

What kind of hands should we 4bet bluff actually?
Never really thought much into it, as I'm usually the aggro 3bettor at the table and nobody adjusts so I don't have to worry about it

[colquhom]

What kind of hands should we 4bet bluff actually?
Never really thought much into it, as I'm usually the aggro 3bettor at the table and nobody adjusts so I don't have to worry about it

Ax ones that you don't call with are usually the best, suited is a plus if they're not in your calling range too to give some added playability when some mongo flats your 4bet.

Also, depending on their range 8% is not a high enough number to consider4bet bluffing, like blinds on button or button on cutoff it needs to be situationally 11% at least to even consider it, which is a mistake people make i think.

[AndyFatBastard]

If I play over 400 hands an hour my win rate is directly proportional to the amount of extra hands I play. My head gets fried and I cant concentrate.

I also never play a session longer than 70 minutes unless I have a Jesus seat as I need to clear my head and go again

Another reason why Rush is great is that you can play for 20 minutes, take a 10 minute break, and pick up exactly where you left off. I only play two tables and get frazzled quickly, so this is how I do it.

Me and Digiman discussed this the other day in the BBV. Adding extra tables in Rush is a case of diminishing returns, because the biggest limiter to your hands-per-hour is the time it takes you to click Autofold after your hand is dealt. IMO 8 tabling Rush is madness, but he seems to be ok with it. Obviously he's a much sicker grinder than me.