SCOOP 7 L - 7.50 HU hand.

[AlanO92]

Never posted one of these but im kinda kicking myself about this hand,just wondering if you guys think its a bad play or what.

This was the longest of my three matches and this guy has been shoving pretty light(he's been in 4 times in the last 6 hands and shown complete air).

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 7.5 Tournament, 100/200 Blinds (2 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (BB) (t4670)
SB (t5330)

Hero's M: 15.57

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, 10
SB bets t400, Hero raises to t800, SB raises to t5330 (All-In), Hero calls t3870 (All-In)

Flop: (t9340) 8, K, 9 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: (t9340) 8 (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t9340) 6 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: t9340

[DrJFF]

interesting spot,

i don't like your sizing to be honest (its hard to know if its good or bad depends on gameflow etc), you can't 3bet/fold

i prefer to just jam over his open and i'd be doing that quite a bit and it creates a good dynamic for you

[eamonhonda]

If he has shoves several times with complete air calling wit A10 suited heads up is perfect in my book and i assume many others. Assume you ran into a monster ul gg

[AlanO92]

interesting spot,

i don't like your sizing to be honest (its hard to know if its good or bad depends on gameflow etc), you can't 3bet/fold

i prefer to just jam over his open and i'd be doing that quite a bit and it creates a good dynamic for you

Tbh the sizing comes from the fact that he has folded a good few hands to this size raise.

[DrJFF]

Tbh the sizing comes from the fact that he has folded a good few hands to this size raise.

just from my experience i love when i get min raised in hu sng ago's cos it usually means your playing a weak player, as there isn't many hands that you can't play in position given the shallowness of the stacks, and your not going to make a strong enough hand to play profitabilty oop,

jamming is so much more better

[Mellor]

I don't mind 3betting to induce a shove actually. But not the min-raise. I'd prob 2.5x it to 1000. But only if the gameflow/history allows it. If you've been 3 bet shoving you can't just switch to min 3bet or vice versa. Button should be opening pretty wide, so 3betting light-ish is profitable. I wouldn't make a habit of 3bet folding here but I would avoid it completely.

[Caf]

The min 3bet(or min + a click) is creeping into the game now just as the min open did, although I can't see it spreading in the same way. I'd like to hear the thoughts of those who use it, rather than the usual story of people saying it's not good or w/e. Both winning and losing players use it from my experience, where as I would only have ever seen it used by fish in the past. I played this yesterday and was up against a decent winning reg who only min 3bet, so he's playing more 3b pots v me OOP but has the betting lead to the flop.

It's an ineffective strategy imo but there are people making it work...


As for the hand, you answered your question yourself by saying he's been all in 4 times in the last 6 hands with air... making A,10 too strong to fold, but it's probably too strong to fold anyway HU. Depending on villain and history is how I would decide 3b size or just shove.

[Winning!]

3b-shove > 3b/c, you get snapped off by a wider range than shoves over a small 3b since it looks stronger/inducing when villain's been shoving a ton previously. Also prevents villain calling and having to play a 3b pot OOP with an SPR of 2.5, which sucks

[DrJFF]

The min 3bet(or min + a click) is creeping into the game now just as the min open did, although I can't see it spreading in the same way. I'd like to hear the thoughts of those who use it, rather than the usual story of people saying it's not good or w/e. Both winning and losing players use it from my experience, where as I would only have ever seen it used by fish in the past. I played this yesterday and was up against a decent winning reg who only min 3bet, so he's playing more 3b pots v me OOP but has the betting lead to the flop.

It's an ineffective strategy imo but there are people making it work...


As for the hand, you answered your question yourself by saying he's been all in 4 times in the last 6 hands with air... making A,10 too strong to fold, but it's probably too strong to fold anyway HU. Depending on villain and history is how I would decide 3b size or just shove.

when you talk about min 3bets are talking tourneys or hu sngs? or both?

[Caf]

when you talk about min 3bets are talking tourneys or hu sngs? or both?

I didn't mean HU SNGs. Both MTTs and HU MTTs(same as hu sngs?).

[DrJFF]

I didn't mean HU SNGs. Both MTTs and HU MTTs(same as hu sngs?).

well i think MTTs its much better cos there will be alot of factors in your favour,

however the same factors will not be in place in a hu sng/mtt

[Caf]

I was really just talking about the min 3bet in general, I'm not saying the format of the game is irrelevant, because it's obv not, but the min 3bet is coming into fashion and just wanted to hear the pros rather than the cons.

Like when the min open starting becoming the norm, someone would post a HH here and, for example, villain had min opened. There would be a note in almost every comment in the thread that people hate villain's line with a min open...no doubt the same folk are min opening now.

[DrJFF]

I was really just talking about the min 3bet in general, I'm not saying the format of the game is irrelevant, because it's obv not, but the min 3bet is coming into fashion and just wanted to hear the pros rather than the cons.

Like when the min open starting becoming the norm, someone would post a HH here and, for example, villain had min opened. There would be a note in almost every comment in the thread that people hate villain's line with a min open...no doubt the same folk are min opening now.

ah yeah i know what i mean, the main pro would be you have the lead in the pot and you can induce someone to spazz, i actually like it in tourneys, but i'd do it in position as opposed from say the sb or bb, i just think being oop position with shallow stacks is a situation i try to avoid!

hence why i love when someone does it vs me in a hu situation as i'll be in position and its easier for me to play close to perfect against them

[Mellor]

3b-shove > 3b/c, you get snapped off by a wider range than shoves over a small 3b since it looks stronger/inducing when villain's been shoving a ton previously. Also prevents villain calling and having to play a 3b pot OOP with an SPR of 2.5, which sucks

I think that really depends on history.
I dont think his range for calling a shove is very different to his range with which he 4bets over the top. The exact circumstances when he got it in with air would be a deciding factor too. As would OPs definition of air I suppose.

@Caf
I'll open and 3bet kinda shallow heads up. But I wouldn't min 3bet at 6max or FR. Basically the success rate of a min open is to be lower and you have people who fail to adjust properly. There's a similar carryover to the 3bet. It also keeps that aspect of the game in play longer, where you should have a bigger edge vrs fish. It's more likely to cause certain players to spaz out and shove. Like bad aggressive players (the villain in OP?) for example. They got away with it earlier and eventually get csught out of line or don't adjust to rising blind levels.

Edit:
Just to add. It's not a move I make religiously, prehaps not even by default. Often I shove because its better verses that guy, or makes the rest of the hand easier. The low 3bet is just another aspect I like to have there.

[TommyGunne]

GTO wise, minopening has an awful lot going for it. GTO wise, min 3balling sucks oop.