Bad beat/Moan/Venting Thread - BBV Archive 2

[Flushdraw]

Some lasting images for the Olympics

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[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

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[Bubbleking]

Btw I've no intention of becoming a GP when I finish college so my views aren't as biased as they appear

[colquhom]

HJ bitchslapping everyone in the bbv today, wp wp, I learned to not argue with him on the forum some time in 05.

Disagree, he tried to indicate that GPs are awful based on a sample size of 2 self diagnoses, one which turned out to be made up. If the argument was reversed I'd imagine he'd be shouting lol sample size as usual.

Also, fundamentally diagnosing yourself is so retarded, that no matter the quality of his writing , he'll still be utterly wrong.

[davepoke/her]

Sleep more obv

No

But Im glad you brought it up. In fact everyone is wrong. The first guy just has a cold and the second guy isn't getting enough sleep.

If anyone else needs medical advice just hit me with a pm, will do it free of charge.

[Teddie]

shortness of breath has indicated lung cancer, heart failure, pneumonia and histoplasmosis to name a few

Now same patient but different illness. Now instead he is constantly tired. Now whats the diagnosis?

This has a point btw

The GP won't know what's wrong with you either though. He won't know until he sends you off to some else to give you more tests/has better knowledge/equipment. Basically paying €50 for nothing other than his ability to refer you.

[Bubbleking]

How much do GPs receive for a medical card visit?

sorry missed this earlier. They get paid at a reduced rate for the first 3 visits a year AFAIK after that they dont get anything. I'm sure you can see how this is problematic if you have a surgery that is mainly attended by medical card holders and its the reason why the fee is high for the rest of the public to keep the business afloat

[Bubbleking]

what a very strange point.

HJ said that the internet would say 'go to the doctor as there could be loads of reasons for this, including some serious ones', in which case the person would go to the doctor and find out that they are grand. Its only if the internet says 'don't worry about it' that its a problem.

and yet you seem to think you've 'tricked' him in some way?

you missed my point (because I made it badly obv).

I didnt trick anyone I gave people a random symptom and asked the internet to give me a diagnosis. The internet gave me a list of the worst possible things and told me to go to the doctor.. Can you not see how negative that is and not really beneficial

The GP won't know what's wrong with you either though. He won't know until he sends you off to some else to give you more tests/has better knowledge/equipment. Basically paying €50 for nothing other than his ability to refer you.

Any GP can strike off the more serious conditions pretty quickly. Sure it might take more tests to get to the root of the problem but they should be able to fix a lot of minor conditions and reassure you that you will be alright

[eamonhonda]

Should be a backup bbv for times when topic in the main one are boring you.

[Foxy]

Ah come on - nearly all back pain is met with a diagnosis of 'go home and rest'. Even the NHS says not to bother them for the first six weeks.

Although that sounds like an excellent GP. Unfortunately there is no way for people to know who is a good GP and who is a bad GP apart from word-of-mouth as there is no ability to review GPs. Surely it would be beneficial if more people could know that this particular GP has good abilities?

It's the TFT that this particular muscle was unusual to pull is what led to the diagnosis. A lot of back pain probably does just require rest ( I'm in absolutely no way able to talk about medical matters so don't hold me to that statement if I'm completely wrong!). It's experience of dealing with situations that makes GPs opinions extremely valuable. Isn't it always better(sorry for the upcoming cliche btw) to be safe rather than sorry?

[Foxy]

Dear god *TFT=fact.

[Hectorjelly]

I kinda think you're just being pointlessly contrary at the moment, while the informational disadvantage has obviously diminished, which is a good thing obviously, your use of the description "real estate salesman" is pretty much designed to be offensive and I think you know that.

The internet hasn't really made any part of their job redundant, it has given patients the opportunity to be more informed and thus engage in a more comprehensive dialogue with their doctor and arrive at better outcomes but it in no way replaces any part of the job that the GP does, which is to appropriately appraise the information presented and come to a diagnosis.

What bubbleking is trying to get at with his example is that there are a number of different things that signs/symptoms could represent and it can often be difficult to differentiate between them.

Christ, if a doctor trained in the job for 40 years can make a mistake as you are so keen to point out, why do you think that you're going to do any better?

Also, your decision to not go to the doctor for minor ailments - if they're minor, why would you go?

It's not designed to be offensive, I didn't pluck it out of thin air - real estate agents are often used as an example of an industry that has been hurt by the internet. On the other hand, you and BK are showing many of the signs of any industry that has been threatened, defensiveness and scare tactics. Both a future GP, and the son of a GP are almost uniquely placed to be unable to judge matters like this evenly.

In my case I did a better job because I took the time to do it properly. What was maddening though was having to go back to the doctor to get a prescription for an ailment that I had diagnosed myself. It was only a minor ailment, in that I wasn't going to die - That may be "meh" to you, but it was weeks of being extremely uncomfortable and not an insignificant amount of money.

Disagree, he tried to indicate that GPs are awful based on a sample size of 2 self diagnoses, one which turned out to be made up. If the argument was reversed I'd imagine he'd be shouting lol sample size as usual.

Also, fundamentally diagnosing yourself is so retarded, that no matter the quality of his writing , he'll still be utterly wrong.

I never said they were awful, and you have yet to give one good reason, or even argument for why self diagnosing is "retarded".

[Teddie]

Any GP can strike off the more serious conditions pretty quickly. Sure it might take more tests to get to the root of the problem but they should be able to fix a lot of minor conditions and reassure you that you will be alright

Not to pushed if they can strike off more serious condition, I could do that myself with the aid of the internet tbh. That's the problem I have with them, they basically need someone else to do their job for them all the while charging €50 for their reassurance.

[max_power]

I realised not to argue with colquhom in 2004.

[Hectorjelly]

you missed my point (because I made it badly obv).

I didnt trick anyone I gave people a random symptom and asked the internet to give me a diagnosis. The internet gave me a list of the worst possible things and told me to go to the doctor.. Can you not see how negative that is and not really beneficial
t

Since the alternative to looking it up on the internet and ending up in the doctor is just going straight to the doctor, then no I can't really see how that is negative.

[Foxy]

HJ, by self diagnosing, do you concede that you're taking an unneccesary risk?

[max_power]

Would like to see how often guys in their twenties/early thrirties go to the gp.

Think I've been once in the last ten years.

[CHDad]

You should all be having this debate at a normal time like 2.37pm or 11.42am.

Get out.

[Hectorjelly]

HJ, by self diagnosing, do you concede that you're taking an unneccesary risk?

Of course not? I'm sure everyone would agree that a certain amount of self diagnosis is necessary. It's not hard to tell the difference between a small cut, or something that may need stitches.

[Hectorjelly]

You should all be having this debate at a normal time like 2.37pm or 11.42am.

Get out.

So you lads can talk about the wolf pack and ask each other what's for dinner? GTYO

[Bubbleking]

yeah I'll admit defeat on this one I've set up a poor defense and looking twenty moves ahead I will most like be facing defeat or at best a stalemate

So I guess self diagnosis is ok once you dont need an objective assessment and just a subjective one where the resource you are using is extremely detailed

[Foxy]

Of course not? I'm sure everyone would agree that a certain amount of self diagnosis is necessary. It's not hard to tell the difference between a small cut, or something that may need stitches.

Well that stuff is obviously fairly self evident. I was talking about stuff like pains or unusual aches. Colds, cuts and all that minor stuff, I doubt anyone really goes to the doctor over. I'd be shocked if they did anyway, cos that would really be quite pointless. So, over things like that, I'd have to agree with you. But over more difficult things to diagnose would you trust the Internet over a doctor?

[Hectorjelly]

yeah I'll admit defeat on this one I've set up a poor defense and looking twenty moves ahead I will most like be facing defeat or at best a stalemate

So I guess self diagnosis is ok once you dont need an objective assessment and just a subjective one where the resource you are using is extremely detailed

Here is the most amazing game video I've seen recently as a peace offering - don't be put off by the title!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEJHrmliVQw

[colquhom]

It's not designed to be offensive, I didn't pluck it out of thin air - real estate agents are often used as an example of an industry that has been hurt by the internet. On the other hand, you and BK are showing many of the signs of any industry that has been threatened, defensiveness and scare tactics. Both a future GP, and the son of a GP are almost uniquely placed to be unable to judge matters like this evenly.

In my case I did a better job because I took the time to do it properly. What was maddening though was having to go back to the doctor to get a prescription for an ailment that I had diagnosed myself. It was only a minor ailment, in that I wasn't going to die - That may be "meh" to you, but it was weeks of being extremely uncomfortable and not an insignificant amount of money.



I never said they were awful, and you have yet to give one good reason, or even argument for why self diagnosing is "retarded".

I don't see myself becoming a GP, I couldnt imagine anything more boring, so I haven't much to be defensive about. My reason for disagreeing with you (or rather HH) is that I think advocating self-diagnosis is irresponsible and I wanted to make that point. And I would have made the same point prior studying medicine.

Some of the reasons self-diagnosis is not a good idea

1) You can't always see all of your symptoms. If you go to a consultation with your doctor, it allows them to see plenty of visual info about your symptoms. Like if you had a temp/fever your doctor can assess your facial color, general appearance, and lots of other aspects of how you present that you are probably not aware of because you don't have the experience of looking for them


2) Can you always be objective about your own health - do you ever write stuff off or engage in wishful thinking? Maybe that lump will go away if I leave it etc

3) You can get it wrong, if the doctor can get it wrong I presume it means you're more likely to - you must admit that? Unless you think years of training puts you at an actual disadvantage which seems quite odd.

4) Theres a problem of "somatization" - Somatization disorder is a long-term (chronic) condition in which a person has physical symptoms that involve more than one part of the body, but no physical cause can be found.The pain and other symptoms people with this disorder feel are real, and are not created or faked on purpose.

I can't remember the stats but this affects a fairly large chunk of consultations - do you not think that symptoms like that would provoke some fairly interesting diagnoses from random googling?

I'm sure theres more reasons but that will do for now

And i almost think we're not even arguing the same point because you seem to agree that GPs are useful for some things - the breathlessness example, i mean thats a pretty common complaint so even that would go as far as to make GPs not "redundant" and I think apart from that example you mentioned about the rash, which must have been frustrating, the things you are "diagnosing" yourself with on the internet don't really warrant going to the GP.

[CHDad]

So you lads can talk about the wolf pack and ask each other what's for dinner? GTYO

Not just that.

What is GTYO?

[tipp86]

sorry missed this earlier. They get paid at a reduced rate for the first 3 visits a year AFAIK after that they dont get anything. I'm sure you can see how this is problematic if you have a surgery that is mainly attended by medical card holders and its the reason why the fee is high for the rest of the public to keep the business afloat

What a joke of a system. I know of certain people who will be at the doctors every second week.

I personally have a medical card with about two years. Id imagine i might visit a GP 3 times a year.

I really wish there was some fee to be paid by medical card holders €10/20 maybe. It would rid the waiting room of a lot of time wasters.

[Hectorjelly]

Not just that.

What is GTYO?

Gestión de Tiempo y Ocio

[CHDad]

Gestión de Tiempo y Ocio

Bad save.

That would be GTO BTW IMO K?

Go to bed, start again tomorrow.

[Hectorjelly]

Bad save.

That would be GTO BTW IMO K?

Go to bed, start again tomorrow.

Game theory optimal, by the way, In my opinion K?

Not sure what exactly this means but I like it

[Hectorjelly]

I don't see myself becoming a GP, I couldnt imagine anything more boring, so I haven't much to be defensive about. My reason for disagreeing with you (or rather HH) is that I think advocating self-diagnosis is irresponsible and I wanted to make that point. And I would have made the same point prior studying medicine.

Some of the reasons self-diagnosis is not a good idea

1) You can't always see all of your symptoms. If you go to a consultation with your doctor, it allows them to see plenty of visual info about your symptoms. Like if you had a temp/fever your doctor can assess your facial color, general appearance, and lots of other aspects of how you present that you are probably not aware of because you don't have the experience of looking for them


2) Can you always be objective about your own health - do you ever write stuff off or engage in wishful thinking? Maybe that lump will go away if I leave it etc

3) You can get it wrong, if the doctor can get it wrong I presume it means you're more likely to - you must admit that? Unless you think years of training puts you at an actual disadvantage which seems quite odd.

4) Theres a problem of "somatization" - Somatization disorder is a long-term (chronic) condition in which a person has physical symptoms that involve more than one part of the body, but no physical cause can be found.The pain and other symptoms people with this disorder feel are real, and are not created or faked on purpose.

I can't remember the stats but this affects a fairly large chunk of consultations - do you not think that symptoms like that would provoke some fairly interesting diagnoses from random googling?

I'm sure theres more reasons but that will do for now

And i almost think we're not even arguing the same point because you seem to agree that GPs are useful for some things - the breathlessness example, i mean thats a pretty common complaint so even that would go as far as to make GPs not "redundant" and I think apart from that example you mentioned about the rash, which must have been frustrating, the things you are "diagnosing" yourself with on the internet don't really warrant going to the GP.

I didn't say GP's were redundant, we might be arguing at cross purposes less if read what I exactly said.

None of the reasons you gave are reason not to self diagnose. Think about what you are arguing here, you are saying it's a bad idea to educate yourself about your body and what may be wrong with you and just traipse to the doctor like a zombie anytime you think something may be wrong. The internet means that you know have quick access to a huge amount of information that allows you to decide whether you need to go to the GP or not. I'm not suggesting you download a begginers guide to catching cancer and ruthlessly follow it.

[colquhom]

I didn't say GP's were redundant, we might be arguing at cross purposes less if read what I exactly said.

None of the reasons you gave are reason not to self diagnose. Think about what you are arguing here, you are saying it's a bad idea to educate yourself about your body and what may be wrong with you and just traipse to the doctor like a zombie anytime you think something may be wrong. The internet means that you know have quick access to a huge amount of information that allows you to decide whether you need to go to the GP or not. I'm not suggesting you download a begginers guide to catching cancer and ruthlessly follow it.

You said a large part of their reason for existing was redundant, which i'll admit is slightly different but I still disagree with it for reasons stated.

I mean, they absolutely are reasons not to self diagnose.

Where in the name of god did I advocate not educating yourself about your body and nor am I saying you should traipse to the doctor every time something is wrong. In fact I repeatedly said that I thought you were probably "self-diagnosing" things that I would assume wouldnt warrant a trip to the GP.

I don't advocate going to the GP for much in fact, certainly not anything "you" can diagnose with certainty. I do advocate going to the GP for things only a GP could diagnose.

And that beginners guide to catching cancer comment means absolutely nothing and is totally pointless.

I don't think I'm the reason for the crossed wires tbh

[Lord Sir Banter]

hi

[Icarus152]

hey wait - how's that going to affect the honeymoon? you should be kinda-grand by Sunday, yeah?

FML, up again with this pain in my back. Took Solpodeine for the first time yesterday, which helped, but when they wear off the pain is twice as bad so will have to review this.

Doc said I was grand for the honeymoon, just keep the rash covered.

1. Take pic of self
2. Upload to http://www.tineye.com/
3. Save €50 on cowboy GPs who'll do the exact same thing

While this is maybe a bit extreme, I pretty much agree with your opinions on GP's, hence why I refered to them as vets. FWIW, Google told me I had shingles, I just needed the GP to proscribe/confirm. Visit was over in 3 minutes.

Me: I think I have shingles.

Doc:Take off tee shirt......You have shingles.

If the rash goes right around and meets in the middle you'll die... just saying.

One of the sorest things I've ever experienced, if it is early in the outbreak try to get the doc to prescribe a high dose of acyclovir

She has me on some shit like that. Back pain is what's fucking me up at the mo. Will post irregular updates on how this progresses.

Get well soon btw.

Thank you kindly. Me having to get out of bed to respond to all you cunts is not helping though.


TL;DR missing a leg = GP's good. Don't know what's wrong with you before you go in = GP's bad.

[Icarus152]

If anyone else needs medical advice just hit me with a pm, will do it free of charge.

Any suggestions for neuralgia?

I might go back to bed soon.

[TheDrunkenOne]

brand new acute hospital my area

with parking/staff etc its not going well

patient care aint up to much either.....

http://www.impartialreporter.com/news/roundup/articles/2012/08/09/397625-man-with-fingers-chopped-off-told-go-on-home-now/

[Icarus152]

Took one solpo instead of 2, fuck all use so far. Think I'll try find a cake.

[Icarus152]

brand new acute hospital my area

with parking/staff etc its not going well

patient care aint up to much either.....

http://www.impartialreporter.com/new...o-on-home-now/

He should have given them the finger.

[Icarus152]

Thought Mellor would be here by now to chime in on the Vet v's Internet debate....

[TheDrunkenOne]

missing the olympics ..

[eamonhonda]

Is doctor debate over. Just spun 10er up to half a shifts wages on paddy power games. Quit while I was ahead. Decent use of my time at work

Edit: crafty folk at paddy power mysteriously can't load the withdraw page after a quick win. I have the right mind to load blackjack up again and take them for a few more quid

[Lord Sir Banter]

Everybody does not love Raymond.

[davepoke/her]

Any suggestions for neuralgia?

I might go back to bed soon.

wtf? How would I know anything about shagging dead bodies.

[Lord Sir Banter]

[KevIRL]

Jesus thats some rain out there

[SatNav]

Up since 8 to check the pup. Great little pup no whining last night at all. I opened the kitchen door and she was still asleep and woke up wagged the tail happy out. no poo or wee anywhere in the kitchen so took her straight out to the garden and she did both straight away!
I'd hardly be that lucky that she is house trained already? Lovely little thing she is Loving my new slippers she is !

[Emmet]

I agree but there is a difference between actual knowledge and information presented in a way that could lead to false ideas

just as a point of order here.

Most qualified dieticians practise and preach a combination of misinformation provided by heavily involved studies prompted and promoted by the food industry itself.

Though there isn't (and imo can't be either) as much of this in modern medicine, there certainly does exist many examples of company-sponsored research etc that is used to 'teach' (tell) trainees stuff.

Without the internet, and being able to read my own research on diet and how to eat, and what your body needs etc, had I just decided to attend one of perhaps 80% of the qualified dieticians in Ireland, I would have been told utter bullshit about what I should be eating.

Again, this isn't on a similar scale to modern medicine, and certainly shouldn't be a like-for-like comparison, but some of what Hitch has said is true (a lot not!), especially regarding the out-dating of ideals. The modern lifestyle, diet, food processes, chemical creation etc means that there's plenty of brand new shit that a GP just can't keep up with!

There's certainly a place for both your own research and the guidance and experience of a GP though.

or basically this

The internet hasn't really made any part of their job redundant, it has given patients the opportunity to be more informed and thus engage in a more comprehensive dialogue with their doctor and arrive at better outcomes but it in no way replaces any part of the job that the GP does, which is to appropriately appraise the information presented and come to a diagnosis.

[BallymoreChris]

This is it. When i checked lobby, i thought it was the £1000 buyin game, but then found out it's a £120 game with £880 expenses which i'm not crazy about.

I might play the one at the weekend that has 5 x £1k packages gtd, and if i can't transfer the ticket, i'll just take a hit on it and settle for the £880 expenses and be happy with that. I won't be going anyway. Would need to finish top 20 or something just to break even for the trip!

Will the bu;lk of the £880 not be in hotel expenses though? the tournament runs for 5 days.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

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[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

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[ArmaniJeans]

Short of breath, struggling to finish a round of golf, nagging wife?

Well the official diagnosis is that you should enter the IPB Premier League Predictions Competition.
All you have to do is merely predict the scorelines in Premier League matches each week.

http://www.irishpokerboards.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14936

Remember this is the only IPB competition that gives you an interest in every single Premier League match.

[KevIRL]

Remember this is the only IPB competition that gives you an interest in every single Premier League match.

Fantasy Football says hello

[Zod]

lol, guy just opened his Leaving Cert results live on TV3. That's a risky little move. Although he might have been self-selected as he had six A1s and two A2s.

no chance he hadn't opened the envelope already.

[MrsFlushdraw]

Up since 8 to check the pup. Great little pup no whining last night at all. I opened the kitchen door and she was still asleep and woke up wagged the tail happy out. no poo or wee anywhere in the kitchen so took her straight out to the garden and she did both straight away!
I'd hardly be that lucky that she is house trained already? Lovely little thing she is Loving my new slippers she is !

What did you call her?

[Zod]

What did you call her?

Damo72

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

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[Zod]

I don't know - his hands were properly shaking!

Drugs.

[SatNav]

What did you call her?

Daisy, I told Mia pick it and thought it was perfect

[Rufio]

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/f...us-563034.html The photo amuses me.

[MrsFlushdraw]

Daisy, I told Mia pick it and thought it was perfect

Our little Pom is Minnie and it's perfect for her too. I call her Mouse half the time. She is just so tiny lol. Daisy is a lovely name. We are getting a Disney collection now with Daisy added lol

[6starpool]

Fantasy Football says hello

Technically, no participants might have any players from a specific game. Unlikely, but possible. 7 fully paid entries so far.