Bad beat/Moan/Venting Thread - BBV Archive 2

[V for Vendetta]

Im getting the impression the goverment have their fingers in their ears and the eyes shut on this whole situation, can honestly see the scenario were interest will be accruing on peoples charge because hogan et al will refuse to back down regardless.

How they plan to enforce this is an entirely different issue but one thing is for sure it will be handled in the most ham fisted fashion possible.

It is going to cost more in legal fees then it raises and my lay legal view is the govt will lose spectacularly. Hilarious incompetence from our civil servants and so called experiences politicians.

[RasTa]

Also passion fruit juice is now the number 1 juice of all time and it's not even close. Just coming into season over here, yum yum.

Image may be large

SPOILER

[V for Vendetta]

Ignorance of the law is no excuse. You're not sent a TV license bill, nor an income tax bill. You are expected to pay charges levied against you by the State for the good of the public purse and it is not a prerequisite to ask you for it.

Nobody could credibly claim to not know about the existence of the charge. There may be an argument there on some basis (need more time to think about it) but the Government is deemed to have fulfilled its obligation to inform people of the law by publishing it in Iris Oifiguil, which they have done.

So if I'm dyslexic, of sick or just not interested in watching the news because the recession depresses me and I haven't heard about this thing in a 3 month period a court will find against me? Plenty of genuine reasons why someone wouldn't be aware. Income tax is a different story due to tax at source and established custom. You'd have a tough time making it stick Kayroo. Keep you in clover for a while though!!

[Guest]

Ignorance of the law is no excuse. You're not sent a TV license bill, nor an income tax bill. You are expected to pay charges levied against you by the State for the good of the public purse and it is not a prerequisite to ask you for it.

Nobody could credibly claim to not know about the existence of the charge. There may be an argument there on some basis (need more time to think about it) but the Government is deemed to have fulfilled its obligation to inform people of the law by publishing it in Iris Oifiguil, which they have done.

The TV license people send regular bills to 'the occupier', but they can't do anything until they establish the identity of the resident, and income tax is deducted at source due to an agreement between the employer and the state. Every month you get a detailed breakdown of how it was deducted and that the end of the year you get an 'invoice' addressed to your personally. The way I see it, I'm concerned no charge has been levied against me. Say I had a vacant property and was living in another country cut-off from the Irish media, what would happen then?

[bp_me]

Clearly the costs of having the household charge put in place will cos a fortune in year one as we need to summons half the house owning population if we can figure out where they live but once we have a database setup will save loads of hassle in the future.

An post pretty much have this. It's called the Geodirectory ( http://www.geodirectory.ie/ ).

They already know where every house is. Land registry should know who owns each property. It really shouldn't be an insurmountable task.

[RichieM]

Im getting the impression the goverment have their fingers in their ears and the eyes shut on this whole situation, can honestly see the scenario were interest will be accruing on peoples charge because hogan et al will refuse to back down regardless.

How they plan to enforce this is an entirely different issue but one thing is for sure it will be handled in the most ham fisted fashion possible.

tbh I think heavy or nothing. For those on state pensions, salaries or benefits they could look at a straight garnishing but that will of course a riot or I guess the Irish version of 30 protesters and a lot of grumbling. I think with child benefit and everything else most will be getting something from the state one way or the other.

Outside of this it is a long list of summons and tying our courts and police up for months. In terms of if it is legally enforceable Kayroo is your only man but I presume it is as I have not heard any legal types out to say it isn't and I presume someone would have stood up by now.

Basically this is probably going to end up costing the state money in the short term but in the long term will be of benefit.

[TheDrunkenOne]

Obviously you need to do more than just throw the grass seed on the bare patches. 2 weeks later and they still lying there

[Raoul Duke III]

You never told us that you joined Sinn Fein.

unemployed for a two months and he turns into Arthur Scargill

judging by that, I'll be turned into Trotsky by Derby Day

[V for Vendetta]

You never told us that you joined Sinn Fein.

Lol!

Personally I'd pay it if I owed it and I look forward to it going up over €1000 and sometime in the future being in the happy position that I owe it. My point is that my non legal mind can see more holes in this thing then Swiss cheese. I look forward to seeing the permanent govt in this country flail around trying to make it stick.

[Jaysoose]

tbh I think heavy or nothing. For those on state pensions, salaries or benefits they could look at a straight garnishing but that will of course a riot or I guess the Irish version of 30 protesters and a lot of grumbling. I think with child benefit and everything else most will be getting something from the state one way or the other.

Outside of this it is a long list of summons and tying our courts and police up for months. In terms of if it is legally enforceable Kayroo is your only man but I presume it is as I have not heard any legal types out to say it isn't and I presume someone would have stood up by now.

Basically this is probably going to end up costing the state money in the short term but in the long term will be of benefit.

Thats the thing though why not take the next 12 months to bring in a clearly defined and well worked out property tax that people can understand and have been given multiple payment channels etc to cover all bases.

What they are doing now is basically saying the below.

"give us a ton, we promise it will go to local services... we cant tell you which service exactly or how it will be spent but give us it anyway. Oh and yeah you have to register online and pay it all up front, you cant pay in instalments or through the post office.. your not getting a letter or a bill cos the compant in charge of this went tits up."

If they want an extra 100 they could at least break down what and where the money is going on...handing it to some council to spend it as good as burning it in my eyes...there is zero accountability or traceablilty where those lads are concerned.

[DeadParrot]

Think he meant the underclass people.

That is something I struggle with a lot to be honest.
I'm from an area generally thought of as underclass and I often feel frustrated and ostracized for having such diametrically opposed views to others around me.

[V for Vendetta]

unemployed for a two months and he turns into Arthur Scargill

judging by that, I'll be turned into Trotsky by Derby Day

Im really just pointing out how poor a job FG have done on some of the little things over the last 12 months. On the bigger things they've done nothing. This country is governed and run by a bunch of idiots. Lots of other countries are as well so we're not especially cursed I guess.

[shanno66]

You're not sent a TV license bill, nor an income tax bill. You are expected to pay charges levied against you by the State for the good of the public purse and it is not a prerequisite to ask you for it.

You may not be sent a tv licence bill but you do get a home visit notifing you about it and im sure jobs were you have to summit your own taxes make you well aware of it when you start the job,If you are setting up youre own bussines surely its up to you to find out you own tax requirements but its not really the same thing.This is a new tax being brought in,what are they going to say if people do say that they were not aware of this tax ? Your lying ? how could they ever prove that.People will have to be made aware of this tax before anyone can ever be punished for failure to pay.

[Kayroo]

So if I'm dyslexic, of sick or just not interested in watching the news because the recession depresses me and I haven't heard about this thing in a 3 month period a court will find against me? Plenty of genuine reasons why someone wouldn't be aware. Income tax is a different story due to tax at source and established custom. You'd have a tough time making it stick Kayroo. Keep you in clover for a while though!!

What?

Dyslexic, depressed or dumb; you have a civic responsibility to know the laws you are required to obey. Like I said, there may well be arguments against the charge as it relates to enforceability but ignorance is not among them.

[Zod]

the 100 euro charge will be a full blown property tax in the near future, and once they have the database the TV licence will go out the window and they'll start levying a general fee to support RTE. The current TV licence only applies for devices capable of recieving TV signal. with the move to digital and the growth of RTE online offering they will push for removal of the TV receiving capability stipulation and just levy everyone regardless.

[V for Vendetta]

when was the last time you received a letter telling you that you have to pay Income Tax, Duty on your fuel, VAT on your loaf of bread

go on Mary, go on, sure, sure.

I got 3 emails and 4 letters last month from the revenue, thanking me for my generous contribution and sending me a bit back!!

[V for Vendetta]

What?

Dyslexic, depressed or dumb; you have a civic responsibility to know the laws you are required to obey. Like I said, there may well be arguments against the charge as it relates to enforceability but ignorance is not among them.

I can't wait to see the state jailing a mentally retarded person for failure to pay in circumstances where they inherited a property. That will be a short lived govt that tries that. Lol.

[Icarus152]

You're not sent a TV license bill

You are.

Villagers,I just pinged us a Werewolf.

Kayroo.

[nicnicnic]

[Zod]

I can't wait to see the state jailing a mentally retarded person for failure to pay in circumstances where they inherited a property. That will be a short lived govt that tries that. Lol.

can you legally inherit property if you are not in compos mentis or would it have to be held in trust for them?

[shanno66]

there may well be arguments against the charge as it relates to enforceability but ignorance is not among them.

but ignorance is not the arguement,failure to properly notify the homeowners is.

[ionapaul]

Speaking of the TV licence... MAJOR BEAT

I cycled home from the Charlemont Luas stop on Monday and was putting my bike into our little bike shed outside the front door when a man with a list and pen in hand came up to me; it was the TV licence inspector and I was startled enough by his (completely unassuming) questioning that I told him my real name and admitted that we owned a TV. I did tell him we had just moved in, but I'll be getting a reminder in the post I'm sure, now that they have my name! Stupid, stupid ionapaul....

[V for Vendetta]

can you legally inherit property if you are not in compos mentis or would it have to be held in trust for them?

I know a mentally retarded gentlemen who inherited his home. I vey much doubt that a trust was involved but I might be wrong. Kayroo is the man to tell us.

[RichieM]

Thats the thing though why not take the next 12 months to bring in a clearly defined and well worked out property tax that people can understand and have been given multiple payment channels etc to cover all bases.

What they are doing now is basically saying the below.

"give us a ton, we promise it will go to local services... we cant tell you which service exactly or how it will be spent but give us it anyway. Oh and yeah you have to register online and pay it all up front, you cant pay in instalments or through the post office.. your not getting a letter or a bill cos the compant in charge of this went tits up."

If they want an extra 100 they could at least break down what and where the money is going on...handing it to some council to spend it as good as burning it in my eyes...there is zero accountability or traceablilty where those lads are concerned.

This would be completely unworkable. Goes into the kitty which funds council departments. Cant see why people are happy to have tax go into the main govt coffers and then split out. This is a much fairer system as if your council has 1% of the people you will get 1% of the take where as under the old system you had councils with better TD's or cabinet ministers in the area getting 2%.

The fact that local councils are in some ways inept does not mean that we shouldn't fund them rather people should chose their councilors better and perhaps we should have a clear out of the middle management like we need in so many other state departments but the 2 are really not linked.

People just need to pay their tax or departments will close facilities. I wish they would stop talking about libraries as if anyone gives a fuck since we all have broadband and kindles but instead talk about road repairs, road sweepers, life guards for beaches, support for the elderly, affordable child care and whatever else will actually push peoples buttons. No one actually wants to live in towns with pealing paint on the walls, filthy streets and kids drowning at sea during the summer.

[DeadParrot]

as for the household tax.
My views are simply thus;
1)We are running at a massive current account deficient.
2)This was part of our bail out agreement, part of the reason for the rush job
3)This isn't 'for the bankers' or paying off debts. It is to keep Ireland running day to day.
4)You COULD pay instalments on this, empty argument.
5)Ireland is the ONLY country in Europe that doesn't have a council tax on homeowners.
6)The money is needed, if it doesnt come from here, I've a feeling where the alternatives lie will hurt much more.

[Strewelpeter]

There will be no jailing, next month anyone who hasn't paid owes 110 the following month they owe 120.
No bills have been sent out, yet. Next month they will get a list of all the domestic connections that the ESB habe and probably the TV licence address list as well. They will then subtract the list of those who have paid and send out bills and threats of further fines to the rest.

This charge is about nothing except getting people registered as cheaply as possible for the property tax that will be levied from next year on at about €50 / month.

Its sort of insane that there isn't a single government owned database that has every property its owners and the services it receives linked. There will be next year!

[Icarus152]

income tax is deducted at source due to an agreement between the employer and the state. Every month you get a detailed breakdown of how it was deducted

A self employed person gets nothing.

[Kayroo]

I can't wait to see the state jailing a mentally retarded person for failure to pay in circumstances where they inherited a property. That will be a short lived govt that tries that. Lol.

If a person with a mental disability insufficient to render them incapable of being held criminally liable was charged then they are of sufficient capacity to understand the law. Similarly if they are capable of owning property then they are capable of obeying the law.

If, however, they are incapable of understanding the law or being held criminally liable then they will likely be wards of court and have their property administered by their relevant committee, including the responsibility to pay the charge.

Anymore hypotheticals you want me to dismiss as nonsense?

[RichieM]

I can't wait to see the state jailing a mentally retarded person for failure to pay in circumstances where they inherited a property. That will be a short lived govt that tries that. Lol.

mentally retarded people if it is severe enough that they are incapable of dealing with their own finances I don't think are treated as adults under contract law. As such I don't think they can actually own property could be wrong tho.

[Zod]

There will be no jailing, next month anyone who hasn't paid owes 110 the following month they owe 120.
No bills have been sent out, yet. Next month they will get a list of all the domestic connections that the ESB habe and probably the TV licence address list as well.

Neither of which would give an accurate owned property register.

[FeetMagic]

QQ for IT heads. How do you go about changing the title of the page shown in a browser tab, as per attachment, from index if the browser will only read the file as index? It has to be called index for the browser to recognise it as the starting page but having index in the tab is pretty shitty for a company site.

Also, how do you upload a logo to appear beside the title?

[Kayroo]

but ignorance is not the arguement,failure to properly notify the homeowners is.

Like I said above that argument doesn't fly either as the Government need only publish the law in Iris Oifiguil to comply with its obligations to inform the public of the law.

[Zod]

QQ for IT heads. How do you go about changing the title of the page shown in a browser tab, as per attachment, from index if the browser will only read the file as index? It has to be called index for the browser to recognise it as the starting page but having index in the tab is pretty shitty for a company site.

Also, how do you upload a logo to appear beside the title?

edit: originally I don't think I was right. As IPB uses Style sheets the header information is controled using the title tag

<title> Bad beat/Moan/Venting Thread - Literally totes amazeballs - Page 1364 - Irish Poker Boards</title>

[V for Vendetta]

If a person with a mental disability insufficient to render them incapable of being held criminally liable was charged then they are of sufficient capacity to understand the law. Similarly if they are capable of owning property then they are capable of obeying the law.

If, however, they are incapable of understanding the law or being held criminally liable then they will likely be wards of court and have their property administered by their relevant committee, including the responsibility to pay the charge.

Anymore hypotheticals you want me to dismiss as nonsense?

Yes please.

I'm out of the state for the last 3 months.
I don't have electricity or interact with society
Im blind and deaf.
My parents died and the will is unclear about who inherited the house.
I though i bought a house but the legal advice was so poor that it now appears the people I thought owned the house actually legally didn't so I am not now the legal owner.

[V for Vendetta]

If a person with a mental disability insufficient to render them incapable of being held criminally liable was charged then they are of sufficient capacity to understand the law. Similarly if they are capable of owning property then they are capable of obeying the law.

If, however, they are incapable of understanding the law or being held criminally liable then they will likely be wards of court and have their property administered by their relevant committee, including the responsibility to pay the charge.

Anymore hypotheticals you want me to dismiss as nonsense?

Btw I was referring to the political ability to jail the person not the legal ability.

[AndyFatBastard]

Obviously you need to do more than just throw the grass seed on the bare patches. 2 weeks later and they still lying there

It is unseasonably dry. Try watering them.

[Icarus152]

And a major lol at the petit bourgeois wannabes calling for more tax.Call yourselves Rightwing? Ha!

[V for Vendetta]

Kayroo another qn while you're on.

If I don't pay a speeding fine and an increased fine is therefore proposed by the powers that be. If I stand before a judge and tell him I emigrated to work in London and I wasn't aware of the originl fine but am now aware and willing to pay the lower fine. Will I be made to pay the larger fine or the original fine?

[V for Vendetta]

And a major lol at the petit bourgeois wannabes calling for more tax.Call yourselves Rightwing? Ha!

Lol the more the tax goes up the more house prices will plummet. Jack them right up I say!

I'm selling our 2nd car in order to avoid paying road tax on it in sept. The car is probably worth 3k but I'll happily let of go for 2.5k rather then pay 600 in tax. Same principle happens with homes in the US where the property tax can
Easily be >5% of the property value. Wait for the selling stampede at the lower end and on holiday homes when the property tax gets significant.

[DeadParrot]

QQ for IT heads. How do you go about changing the title of the page shown in a browser tab, as per attachment, from index if the browser will only read the file as index? It has to be called index for the browser to recognise it as the starting page but having index in the tab is pretty shitty for a company site.

Also, how do you upload a logo to appear beside the title?

1)<title> tag in HTML, should be fairly obvious once you look at the source code.
Depending on your site layout or software this might be even easier.
2)Upload your image, sized 16X16pixels to your root directory
save the file as favicon.ico

job done

reedit...never list your site as www.mysite.com/index.html just www.mysite.com it'll default to index anyway and shouldnt appear in the browser window

[FeetMagic]

edit: originally I don't think I was right. As IPB uses Style sheets the header information is controled using the title tag

<title> Bad beat/Moan/Venting Thread - Literally totes amazeballs - Page 1364 - Irish Poker Boards</title>

Ya all other pages are fine for the site just not the landing page. I'm working on it through Xara & there's only one option for naming pages so was kind of hoping there's some secret way of getting around the 'index' issue that I'm not aware of

[V for Vendetta]

as for the household tax.
My views are simply thus;
1)We are running at a massive current account deficient.
2)This was part of our bail out agreement, part of the reason for the rush job
3)This isn't 'for the bankers' or paying off debts. It is to keep Ireland running day to day.
4)You COULD pay instalments on this, empty argument.
5)Ireland is the ONLY country in Europe that doesn't have a council tax on homeowners.
6)The money is needed, if it doesnt come from here, I've a feeling where the alternatives lie will hurt much more.

Just in case anyone misunderstands me. I agree with all this BUT that doesn't mean others wont be able to avoid the property tax for some reason.

[shanno66]

Like I said above that argument doesn't fly either as the Government need only publish the law in Iris Oifiguil to comply with its obligations to inform the public of the law.

just because the government have complied with there obligations doesnt mean theirs no grounds to argue,people will not be saying i didnt pay because i didnt know about it.The will say the didnt pay because the werent made aware of it and if enough people put this arguement forward surely the government will have to take measures to change there obligations.I mean what are they going to do just suddenly arrive at youre door and say SURPRISE youre going to jail for not paying a tax you may or may not have knowing existed.

[Hectorjelly]

More people should vote in this http://www.irishpokerboards.com/foru...281#post517281

It's the best round so far. Some class tunes!

[TheDrunkenOne]

missing NFL..

epic fail ..

SPOILER

[ghostface]

There will be no jailing, next month anyone who hasn't paid owes 110 the following month they owe 120.
No bills have been sent out, yet. Next month they will get a list of all the domestic connections that the ESB habe and probably the TV licence address list as well. They will then subtract the list of those who have paid and send out bills and threats of further fines to the rest.

This charge is about nothing except getting people registered as cheaply as possible for the property tax that will be levied from next year on at about €50 / month.

Its sort of insane that there isn't a single government owned database that has every property its owners and the services it receives linked. There will be next year!

Where do you get 50 a month from?

[V for Vendetta]

Where do you get 50 a month from?

You don't expect it to stay at 100 for too long do you??

[MrsFlushdraw]

I could. But I'm a bit curious at this stage.

I would install one then if you are curious. I had the chat in class about how ethical this was and everyone agreed that it is your comp so whether it is ethical or not doesn't come into it as it is your person computer and you are doing nothing wrong. Someone using without your consent on the other hand...

work away and let us know!

[ghostface]

You don't expect it to stay at 100 for too long do you??

No, but I dont expect it to be 600 quid a year

[RichieM]

just because the government have complied with there obligations doesnt mean theirs no grounds to argue,people will not be saying i didnt pay because i didnt know about it.The will say the didnt pay because the werent made aware of it and if enough people put this arguement forward surely the government will have to take measures to change there obligations.I mean what are they going to do just suddenly arrive at youre door and say SURPRISE youre going to jail for not paying a tax you may or may not have knowing existed.

I dont get it their compliance means their is no ground to argue. Well argue successfully at least.

There will be no jail time handed out for this just initially a summons to court for a judge to decide on your case.

Some would say that going to court is not a punishment but a place to discover if you are indeed someone who deserves punishment or who is infact innocent.

Punishments will initially be fines and failure to pay court mandated fines and damages then falls into a different category which could result in jail. Just my understanding on a basic level as to how our legal system works.

In short if you end up in jail it will not be a surprise but a long drawn out process which will ensure that when you are released a few days later you will have racked up a nice bill through tying up court, police and possible jail space. I presume that due to full jails these offenders will simply be transported to a jail and sat in processing for 24 hours and driven back. I guess it all boils down too how you value your time. 1 day in court + 1 day hanging around jail >100 dont pay and have a criminal record barring your from entry to a load of countries. If not pay.

[MrPillowTalk]

Surely there are a load of privacy and data protection concerns with this whole "get the homeowner through the utilities" thing, can't imagine it's legal for a company I have a utility contract with handing over my details to the govt.

[RichieM]

No, but I dont expect it to be 600 quid a year

really within I would say 3 years I would expect it to be this to bring us in line with our euro buddies. Obv more in big cities as their will be more requirements and less in the stick where you are not on the sewage mains or piped water.

[ghostface]

really within I would say 3 years I would expect it to be this to bring us in line with our euro buddies. Obv more in big cities as their will be more requirements and less in the stick where you are not on the sewage mains or piped water.

Surely that is what development contributions pay for?

[RichieM]

Surely that is what development contributions pay for?

Used to be but I think this will encompass a lot of fragmented charges into one in quite soon. Less departments collecting for different small things thus less double jobbing and a more efficient collection process.

Lots of small taxes and charges annoy people more than one big one which I kinda think is the problem here.

[shanno66]

I dont get it their compliance means their is no ground to argue. Well argue successfully at least.

There will be no jail time handed out for this just initially a summons to court for a judge to decide on your case.

Some would say that going to court is not a punishment but a place to discover if you are indeed someone who deserves punishment or who is infact innocent.

Punishments will initially be fines and failure to pay court mandated fines and damages then falls into a different category which could result in jail. Just my understanding on a basic level as to how our legal system works.

In short if you end up in jail it will not be a surprise but a long drawn out process which will ensure that when you are released a few days later you will have racked up a nice bill through tying up court, police and possible jail space. I presume that due to full jails these offenders will simply be transported to a jail and sat in processing for 24 hours and driven back. I guess it all boils down too how you value your time. 1 day in court + 1 day hanging around jail <100 dont pay and have a criminal record barring your from entry to a load of countries. If not pay.

i agree with this post,the grounds to argue is your personal circumstances as to why you didnt pay e.g a homeowner who has been abroud for the last 6 months would have to right to argue any late fees or prison time so even though the government have complied with their obligations people will still have to right to argue there case

[one ill cat]

really within I would say 3 years I would expect it to be this to bring us in line with our euro buddies. Obv more in big cities as their will be more requirements and less in the stick where you are not on the sewage mains or piped water.

I assume our income tax rate is somewhat in line with the rest of Europe, would that be right?
Also, would it be standard across Europe to pay a 'universal social charge'?

[Fullof..It]

QQ

Going to take the plunge and start watching breaking Bad. What kind of parental guidance rating would it have?

[davepoke/her]

[ghostface]

QQ

Going to take the plunge and start watching breaking Bad. What kind of parental guidance rating would it have?

I'd go with 16+ with all the drugs/violence

[ghostface]

Towards the end of Season 3 of BSG now. Really is quite the hit and miss show now. Some excellent episodes and then some absolutely pointless ones.