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Originally posted by Kayroo View PostThe simple fact is that theft is morally wrong. There are any number of ways to justify why someone would steal, but the act itself does not become a moral good just because of those reasons.
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Originally posted by Silver-Tiger View PostYeah this. @hotspur what are you on about? Sounds great and Keane loved it but you never had it like this. Ever.
You had MOTD. You still have that.
Murdoch, and as Kayroo rightly said, the top clubs screwed us, and have been doing ever since. The consequences are crippling wages and success the plaything preserve of billionaires around the world.
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Originally posted by hotspur View PostYou are assuming a binary that either Murdoch makes people pay through the nose for how it is now, or that it would currently exist as it was pre-1992. I can imagine something else.
Murdoch, and as Kayroo rightly said, the top clubs screwed us, and have been doing ever since. The consequences are crippling wages and success the plaything preserve of billionaires around the world.
I just paid €40 for what will be a 80 minute gig and think that is good value. I would and i'm sure you have will pay > 80GBP to got to the new Spurs Stadium. I think €80 a month for > 20 hours of top quality sport is probably one of the better value products i pay for.
Spotify for a tenner prob the best in fairness.
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Originally posted by hotspur View PostWhat is your system of ethics that is leading you to the above conclusions?
I suppose the difference exists in what is morally and ethically right, one can agree with an ethical principle such as "one should never steal" but that doesn't mean it should be adhered to in the event that it conflicts with a fundamental and likely universally held moral value.
I think Lord Sumption covered some of this concept though not completely the same as everyone agrees with stealing to avoid starvation(I think) but not everyone with assisted dying but when questioned by a lady who helped her husband in assisted dying:
Originally posted by Sumption View Post“I think the law should continue to criminalise assisted suicide, and I think that the law should be broken from time to time,” he said.
“We need to have a law against it in order to prevent abuse. It has always been the case that it’s been criminal, but it’s also been the case that courageous friends and families have helped people to die. That is an untidy compromise few lawyers would adopt but I don’t believe there’s a moral obligation to obey the law. Ultimately it’s for each person to decide.”Last edited by Guest; 02-08-19, 12:38.
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Originally posted by hotspur View PostWhat is your system of ethics that is leading you to the above conclusions?You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by Lazare View PostIt's as morally wrong as stealing Travelyan's corn.
Your argument is pedantic.
Also, 'not morally wrong' does not equal morally good.You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by Kayroo View PostStealing to save oneself from starvation is justifiable (by mitigation, rather than the act). Stealing cause I wanna watch the Arsenal play Burnley... not exactly the same thing
The simple fact is that theft is morally wrong. There are any number of ways to justify why someone would steal, but the act itself does not become a moral good just because of those reasonsI hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that
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Originally posted by Lazare View PostAhem, a very wise man once said this....
It is morally wrong to steal. But there are conflicting moral obligations or justifiable imperatives that can mitigate how morally blameworthy someone’s actions are.
The two examples of stealing you gave are morally wrong in my view. But the former (to feed a starving man) can be justified by conflicting imperatives. The latter cannot.You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by Kayroo View PostAside from Marxism is there an ethical system that doesn’t lead to the above conclusion?Originally posted by Kayroo View PostThe simple fact is that theft is morally wrong.
So, quite simply, yes there are many ethical systems that don't lead to that conclusion. I am asking because it is not clear why you believe that, what your thought process is.
No-one is arguing that stealing is wrong is not a good rule of thumb, and no-one is arguing anything about the law. But these lower order absolutes are ethics for children.
"Lying is wrong"
Does it take any adult more than 10 seconds to realise that this rule of thumb is not a moral absolute? Is "Theft is wrong" a similar order category? It certainly is in my opinion.
So I am asking about your ethical system from which you came to the conclusion behind your statement "theft is wrong" as an absolute. I wouldn't with others because I assume they probably haven't studied ethics, but imagine you may have.
It may be that illegally streaming football is wrong, perhaps even wrong due to a form of moral absolutism, but you have made no such case, and we have no insight into how you arrived at your conclusion that "theft is wrong" is a moral absolute in which justifications are irrelevant.
But I'm sure we all have better thing to do than argue about it anyway.
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Originally posted by AndyFatBastard View Post
This is Carlos Tevez's leaked payslip from 2012. Look how much tax he pays. The Premier League combined contributed a total of £3.3 billion in tax to the Treasury in 2016-17.
Soccer teams making money is a good thing. Let them make all the money in the world, and we can take half of it to pay for schools and hospitals.
AA Gill put it best: "All for something that is essentially worthless...You can tell more about a country by how it treats its lunatics than its footballers."
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Originally posted by Kayroo View Post
It is morally wrong to steal.
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Originally posted by Hectorjelly View PostIt's great that they pay tax, but what happens to the other half of that money? Do you see any problems with a system that means the clubs can't or won't pay a living wage to their ordinary staff, but their players make obscene amounts of money.
AA Gill put it best: "All for something that is essentially worthless...You can tell more about a country by how it treats its lunatics than its footballers."
I have no idea now but is it known that EPL teams aren't paying their normal staff a living wage?
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Originally posted by Murdrum View PostNot quite sure what range of clubs we're talking about here but given the example shown, I assume you're taking about EPL teams.
I have no idea now but is it known that EPL teams aren't paying their normal staff a living wage?
Mike Ashley has lost his battle to avoid paying the lowest paid Newcastle United full-time staff the living wage.
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Making out that something can be morally wrong but justifiable seems like a bit of a silly word game to me. Where does the action/outcome begin and end anyway?
Like, it's morally wrong to steal Anders Breveik's gun but justifiable because I know he's going to kill a hundred kids? That just reads like 'morally grand' with pointless extra words.
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Originally posted by Hectorjelly View PostI'm surprised that you have such a simplistic view on this. Both yourself and Murdrum have stated this as a self evident truth - but it's far from as simple as that. It may "feel" right but that's neither here nor there. At some stage if you go far enough back almost everything of value was taken by someone with no particular right to it. Then backed up by violence they created a code of laws that enshrined their right to the object from then on. Those laws have no more authority than we choose to give them. It's a strange and damaging way to look at the world as a system of objects to be owned and used.
What I said was "the act of stealing itself can never be viewed as being ethically or legally right", that seems correct to me, normative externally determined ethics cannot imo conclude stealing to be correct, there's a difference a subtle but important difference between ethics and morals.
I used ethics and morals specifically to avoid this precise assertion, one can agree with an ethical principle but believe that in certain situations that it's more justifiable to contradict those ethics.
I never stated stealing is morally absolute, I'm not quite sure how I feel about moral absolutism vs moral relativism tbh.
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Say you got a tipoff that someone was going to carry out a mass shooting and you broke into his house and stole the gun he legally owned. Is that morally wrong?
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Originally posted by Murdrum View PostWhere did I say stealing is a self evident truth?
What I said was "the act of stealing itself can never be viewed as being ethically or legally right", that seems correct to me, normative externally determined ethics cannot imo conclude stealing to be correct, there's a difference a subtle but important difference between ethics and morals.
I used ethics and morals specifically to avoid this precise assertion, one can agree with an ethical principle but believe that in certain situations that it's more justifiable to contradict those ethics.
I never stated stealing is morally absolute, I'm not quite sure how I feel about moral absolutism vs moral relativism tbh.Originally posted by Murdrum View PostWhere did I say stealing is a self evident truth?
What I said was "the act of stealing itself can never be viewed as being ethically or legally right", that seems correct to me,
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Originally posted by DeadParrot View PostYou can justify anything with Kant as long as you as specific with your maxim.
e.g
you could make the argument that Sky/BT are using people as a means to an end by demanding money of them in order for those people to observe events carried out that contribute to human happiness.. As such, satellite tv, and on a larger scale, free market capitalism, fails to adhere to Kant's principles in the formula of humanity.
Kant isa great man for absolutes but he falls down in the real world.
He was against wanking as it reduced the party to a means of sexual gratification
(I'm sure there is a getting your end away pun there )
People say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
Get a shiny metal Revolut card! And a free tenner!
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Originally posted by AndyFatBastard View PostHow's your Da doing DP?
Doing better now.
Was in hospital for a few weeks a month back as has developed nerve damage from the fall.
My Da is an old school tough cunt. Seeing him cry in pain and beg for painkillers is something I had a real struggle with.
He was feeling like his muscles were being pulled and torn by unseen hands. It lasted about 5 weeks and then seemingly suddenly stopped. He came straight off the pain killers (and anti depressants which they give for neuralgia which was a surprise), and is now more or less back to himself (post accident)
Cheers for asking m8People say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
Get a shiny metal Revolut card! And a free tenner!
https://revolut.com/referral/jamesb8!G10D21
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Originally posted by Murdrum View PostI'm sure you've used one at some point but I quite like the NBA/NFL League Pass option, I haven't signed up this year but I've shared the NBA pass with a mate, £12.50 a month each, 1200+ games, it can be obtained cheaper using a VPN but given the volume of games I feel it's good value.
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Originally posted by Elshambles View PostIf its not a depressing shithole, full of sad cunts and with dreadful food its not a proper Wetherspoons!"I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson
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Would anyone have a notion of the kind of cost to send clothes to India? An Indian friend of mine is setting up a school for Dalit (untouchable) children who are as poor as can be. It is a residential school and they will provide clothes (some kids might have 1 or 2 sets of clothes).
He was wondering about me collecting clothes here for the kids and sending them over, and I began wondering how cost effective it is to do so. I just don't have a clue on the kind of shipment cost (obviously I know it is weight related).
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Originally posted by hotspur View PostWould anyone have a notion of the kind of cost to send clothes to India? An Indian friend of mine is setting up a school for Dalit (untouchable) children who are as poor as can be. It is a residential school and they will provide clothes (some kids might have 1 or 2 sets of clothes).
He was wondering about me collecting clothes here for the kids and sending them over, and I began wondering how cost effective it is to do so. I just don't have a clue on the kind of shipment cost (obviously I know it is weight related).
@Dice
https://www.laptopsdirect.ie/ refurbished models are always fine, get a grade A to be safe or even openbox. i3 or i5 fine for general browsing, can recommend something more specific if you like.
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It's fuck all but at least they're kids clothes, small and light innit.
Certainly not the most effectively altruistic thing.
Perhaps contacting a charity, I imagine they have deals with couriers/free freight space etc?Last edited by Tar.Aldarion; 02-08-19, 19:52.
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Originally posted by hotspur View PostBoth pretty much the same price. 20kg doesn't seem like a lot of clothes for 80 odd quid. Mind you I've never weighed clothes and am only going by airline suitcase restrictions.﴾͡๏̯͡๏﴿
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Originally posted by hotspur View PostBoth pretty much the same price. 20kg doesn't seem like a lot of clothes for 80 odd quid. Mind you I've never weighed clothes and am only going by airline suitcase restrictions.Gone full 'Glinner' since June 2022.
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Originally posted by Dice75 View PostBasic laptop for her dad for home use and netflix (prob porn too)...local yahoos jn Galway looking cor €900 lol. Any recommendations?
You can get something for half the price (if that) that'll do the job.
I've half the people in my place working with these
Last edited by DeadParrot; 02-08-19, 20:31.People say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
Get a shiny metal Revolut card! And a free tenner!
https://revolut.com/referral/jamesb8!G10D21
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View PostSeems like an implied insult of Brighton there dude.
Last edited by ComradeCollie; 02-08-19, 21:20.Gone full 'Glinner' since June 2022.
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