Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - Mammy told me not to come.

[Guest]

What about your neighbours?

No neighbors

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

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[Goodluck2me]

No, it''s not 'selective.

Debt in 2006 was ~40bn
Debt in 2012 was ~200bn.

Yet you claim 'the majority' was run up in the pre-Cowen era. Simply wrong.

Ok, you’re correct the majority was run up in the Cowen years. My point is that the reasons for the run up in debt were set in train many years before. There is no politician that wouldn’t have run up similar levels of debt in that time and circumstances in my view.

[Goodluck2me]

Ah! I was visiting prof on the MSc aviation finance or some such thing in Smur$it last year. Those guys are smart as buttons.

Interesting. Yes, I hired one to my team last month. Been a great hire.

[Raoul Duke III]

Lols. The UK is destroyed. It's no comparison between the two.

Politically, yes.

But our recent implosion was far, far deeper and catastrophic.

You could make a decent argument that the UK has been in long-term decline since 1914.

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[Raoul Duke III]

Ok, you’re correct the majority was run up in the Cowen years. My point is that the reasons for the run up in debt were set in train many years before. There is no politician that wouldn’t have run up similar levels of debt in that time and circumstances in my view.

Actually the truly insane clientelist spending took place in the years 2000-07. When Cowen was the No 2 to Bertie's No 1 (and Minister for Finance for most of the period).

We had nutty FF overspending in the late 70s and early 80s. But by the late 90s, we were in a very virtuous place with our public finances.

We could literally have been another Switzerland. But we went with Bertie, Cowen and bribing people with their own money. Thanks lads.

[Goodluck2me]

https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/ireland/tax-revenue

This shows the drop in tax receipts from $71bn to $50bn in two years, it was always going to be debt that filled the gap.

I can’t embed the pic for some reason.

[Goodluck2me]

Actually the truly insane clientelist spending took place in the years 2000-07. When Cowen was the No 2 to Bertie's No 1 (and Minister for Finance for most of the period).

We had nutty FF overspending in the late 70s and early 80s. But by the late 90s, we were in a very virtuous place with our public finances.

We could literally have been another Switzerland. But we went with Bertie, Cowen and bribing people with their own money. Thanks lads.

Oh to be clear I’m defending Cowens position as Taoiseach not FF!

[Goodluck2me]

Actually the truly insane clientelist spending took place in the years 2000-07. When Cowen was the No 2 to Bertie's No 1 (and Minister for Finance for most of the period).

We had nutty FF overspending in the late 70s and early 80s. But by the late 90s, we were in a very virtuous place with our public finances.

We could literally have been another Switzerland. But we went with Bertie, Cowen and bribing people with their own money. Thanks lads.

Just checked the same source, tax take nearly tripled between 2000 and 2007, which surprised me. I’m genuinely not sure it would have been politically possible not to increase spending significantly with that backdrop.

[Raoul Duke III]

Oh to be clear I’m defending Cowens position as Taoiseach not FF!

I can see that.

On a 'not his fault, it all happened years before' basis. Which is completely incorrect.

Cowen was a major architect of the bust. Look up what spending was when he started as MinFin vs when he finished.

I'm not sure why you're defending him tbh.

[Raoul Duke III]

Just checked the same source, tax take nearly tripled between 2000 and 2007, which surprised me. I’m genuinely not sure it would have been politically possible not to increase spending significantly with that backdrop.

Yeah, sustainable tax take from a viable broad tax base.

Oh, no. Not.

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[Raoul Duke III]

Actually you are performing a valuable public service Goodluckforme.

You're demonstrating how the passage of time, even for intelligent people, can obscure how appalling FF's record in government is and why they should never, ever be trusted again.

[Strewelpeter]

Tweet about the guy who is leading LeTour with 20K to go in stage 1

[Denny Crane]

It’s also worth noting that of the ~€200bn of debt Ireland had today only around $45bn relates to the bank bailout, the majority is from overspending which took place in the decades before Cowen came in.

It was about 45bn when he became Taoiseach

[Raoul Duke III]

Colour of the cat an important missing detail.

[Denny Crane]

Ah, nevermind new page.

[Hectorjelly]

Ah we all know how Cowen performed at his job and have had plenty of time to let him know what we think of him. When he is in hospital gravely ill isn't really the time to be discussing it.

Also anyone who could say

is displaying woeful ignorance of both the person and the subject on which they are pontificating.

How so? I mean he literally did what I said so I find it hard to understand the point you are making.

[Dice75]

In Rolys. Dragons Den lad either side, spot 5 cranes out the window....crash must be imminent.

[ghostface]

Party Down was a mighty fine show, add this to your list folks only lasted two seasons but it was money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rChLGkUcPw

Was coming on to post that when saw the word jigger

[Raoul Duke III]

How so? I mean he literally did what I said so I find it hard to understand the point you are making.

Not corrupt though as you said earlier.

[Dice75]

Pint price watch...€6.40 in the Old Stand...holy moly..#back

[Goodluck2me]

Actually you are performing a valuable public service Goodluckforme.

You're demonstrating how the passage of time, even for intelligent people, can obscure how appalling FF's record in government is and why they should never, ever be trusted again.

Haha, nice try. I wouldn’t trust Bertie again, and I really liked Noonan and like Donoghue but Stephen Donnelly and McGrath also come across well. Rebranding wouldn’t change my mind.

Yeah, sustainable tax take from a viable broad tax base.

Oh, no. Not.

One is an Economic call the other is a political one. What party do you think would have transformed us into Switzerland with the tax take tripling, however unsustainably, in that period of time?

It was about 45bn when he became Taoiseach

I’m aware of that, but tax revenues, again albeit unsustainable, were also very high. It’s like if you don’t take out car insurance and just because you didn’t crash for three years, that the fourth year was the issue.
I think Bertie and McCreevy have more to answer for than cowen.

[tylerdurden94]

@tyler - you seem to be misunderstanding the rules. You don't see hotspur, he sees you.

It's an ever evolving game.

Was coming on to post that when saw the word jigger

Gets me every time. Just got around to finishing season 2 of Atlanta during the week I won't be leaving any of the new seasons on the backburner the breath the season took was incredible, the episode "Teddy Perkins" superb!

Pint price watch...€6.40 in the Old Stand...holy moly..#back

Drop in the ocean compared to your gin rounds

[Denny Crane]

It's pretty much the opposite of what you said, 45 was from the decades before. The rest can be attributed to his tenure as MoF and taoiseach. He ramped up current spending off a variable tax base, he can't turn around and say oops when it went wrong.

[elbows]

McGreevy with the SSIA.

In fairness he tried to tackle the public service and got banished to Europe

[Dice75]

They still run a cash table in Aquarium?

1st time in town proper since November...God im gettin old

[Raoul Duke III]

It's pretty much the opposite of what you said, 45 was from the decades before. The rest can be attributed to his tenure as MoF and taoiseach. He ramped up current spending off a variable tax base, he can't turn around and say oops when it went wrong.

In fairness, Goodluckforme has been walking back his original assertions all day. Nearly back to reality now.

I did find his admiration of Stephen Donnelly rather hilarious - he is detested inside FF.

[Guest]

Back when reality TV had the hint of social experiment about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C9v6__0K-0

Well worth a watch

Then read this:

https://www.theguardian.com/global/2019/jul/06/are-you-really-the-real-you-and-how-can-we-best-become-our-true-selves

If you read first(as I did), you will still enjoy but probably wish you watched first

[CHDad]

I did find his admiration of Stephen Donnelly rather hilarious - he is detested inside FF.

Go on...

[Hectorjelly]

Not corrupt though as you said earlier.

Before Cowengate referred to his hungover shambles of an interview on live radio it was a allusion to the time he awarded a company a mining license that he happened to own shares in. More importantly than that any senior member of that party at that time can't escape responsability for the endemic corruption that reigned supreme for decades.

[hotspur]

Didn't see you at the Lighthouse show I went to. I didn't really dig Hereditary but I thought Midsommar was excellent absolutely baffling stuff. Did you see the Maradona documentary?

Damn it. You didn't see it in the Lighthouse on Friday at 7pm did you? I was walking to see it there from Clontarf and ran out of steam, opting for Cineworld at 7:15.

Yeah I saw the Maradona documentary but was a bit disappointed with it. Thought it started well but then got less insightful.

Went to Metal Heart with a couple of female friends and little enthusiasm today, but really enjoyed it. Dublin set coming of age job with some very funny stuff in it.

[Strewelpeter]

Data is beautiful

[Raekwon]

Hey Dudes. Anybody got a link to watch the UFC? Thanks.

[Wombatman]

If he only discussed Anglo while out golfing with Seanie Fitz, we could be living in Switzerland now.

[Raoul Duke III]

Before Cowengate referred to his hungover shambles of an interview on live radio it was a allusion to the time he awarded a company a mining license that he happened to own shares in. More importantly than that any senior member of that party at that time can't escape responsability for the endemic corruption that reigned supreme for decades.

Hmmm. So unlike Bertie and Haughey then. Rumour. Allusion.

this is a man who has always had rumours of corruption around him.

There is a rumour that you are prone to making stuff up.

[Guest]

First hike in a couple of months yesterday, generally pretty prepared but took Slieve Donard on very casually.

Weather was mild enough to begin with but heated up quite quickly. It ended up much tougher than I expected, quite steep in places, not enough water and I'm a glowing red this morning.

Still a lovely hike though and Newcastle is a nice spot, definitely will be returning albeit more prepared.

[Wesley Harms]

Haven’t been to the Fitz very often recently but had a couple of hours to kill so was in the this week. Played the 50 Holdem cash game. There is one particular dealer who kept getting sent back, she was absolutely horrendous, I mean she was grand dealing but never watched the action, didn’t know what was going on, organizing her breaks and shouting to the other staff to order her food ect. I was watching something on my phone and she leaned in to watch rather than following the action. Slowed the game up terribly.

When did this become a thing in there, always remember it to be on point for the most part.

[mocata]

Donard is beautiful, I would say every single person who attempts in on a whim gets a bit of a gentle shock.

In other Northern Dispatches, the Catholic Workingmens Club in Newry is still healing the wounds of a long bitter grumbling session about the decision to up price of a Guiness from 2.50 to the Benefits-decimating heights of 2.70.

[Goodluck2me]

McGreevy with the SSIA.

In fairness he tried to tackle the public service and got banished to Europe

Ive often wondered how differently the economy would have turned out had the SSIAs matured in 2009/10.

In fairness, Goodluckforme has been walking back his original assertions all day. Nearly back to reality now.

I did find his admiration of Stephen Donnelly rather hilarious - he is detested inside FF.

I’m not sure why that amuses you, that he is detested doesn’t mean he’s wrong.

As the facts change my opinion changes as they say . I actually didn’t realize he was MOF in 2004 - 08, so that changed my conviction somewhat. Ok so let’s agree he was a terrible MOF, who would have been better?

Leaving my volte face aside, I was wondering what could any party at that time have done with the money (that would be acceptable politically) during a period of tripling of tax revenues. I actually went back to FGs 2007 election manifesto there to see what they were advocating in 2007. They were going to reduce stamp duty and increase NV spending by 13% in 2007, 10% in 2008 and 8% in 2009. This isn’t a pop at FG who I think are the most financially prudent party but if even they were doing do it highlights what was going on at the time.

What annoys me most about FF isn’t the mistakes made in government, it’s the stink of corruption. I think most people would have found the recession a little more palatable if it wasn’t seen to be just a recession for some, and that were all in it together. The brown envelope and cronyism is why I wouldn’t vote for them, to because they made mistakes during the greatest economic upcycle well ever see.

[Goodluck2me]

First hike in a couple of months yesterday, generally pretty prepared but took Slieve Donard on very casually.

Weather was mild enough to begin with but heated up quite quickly. It ended up much tougher than I expected, quite steep in places, not enough water and I'm a glowing red this morning.

Still a lovely hike though and Newcastle is a nice spot, definitely will be returning albeit more prepared.

It’s class, a tougher climb from the non-car park side, took us about 3-4hours when we did it. The views from the top are spectacular on a clear day so hopefully you got them. Give Carrantouhill a go aloe, especially on a clear day.

[Dice75]

Haven’t been to the Fitz very often recently but had a couple of hours to kill so was in the this week. Played the 50 Holdem cash game. There is one particular dealer who kept getting sent back, she was absolutely horrendous, I mean she was grand dealing but never watched the action, didn’t know what was going on, organizing her breaks and shouting to the other staff to order her food ect. I was watching something on my phone and she leaned in to watch rather than following the action. Slowed the game up terribly.

When did this become a thing in there, always remember it to be on point for the most part.

Funny enough I went in last night about 2am and bought in for 150 i think and bust with QQ.Opened wallet and only had 45 in cash so threw that on the table, blinds went through me and stepped over to ATM (theres one in the Fitz now). Took out some loots and went to sit back down. Dealer calls floor. Floor rules I cant use more money as rule is one short buyin and you are out after that. Whole table scratching their head & i have to leave. Confusing place that Fitz.

[Hectorjelly]

Funny enough I went in last night about 2am and bought in for 150 i think and bust with QQ.Opened wallet and only had 45 in cash so threw that on the table, blinds went through me and stepped over to ATM (theres one in the Fitz now). Took out some loots and went to sit back down. Dealer calls floor. Floor rules I cant use more money as rule is one short buyin and you are out after that. Whole table scratching their head & i have to leave. Confusing place that Fitz.

That is technically the rule, but the dealer should have warned you about it, and the floor should have let it go this time since you weren't informed and the amount was so insignificant (50 is considered a normal buyin). I bet I can guess who the supervisor was.

[Dice75]

That is technically the rule, but the dealer should have warned you about it, and the floor should have let it go this time since you weren't informed and the amount was so insignificant (50 is considered a normal buyin). I bet I can guess who the supervisor was.

Fair enough so, not something id be aware of. No big deal anyway. Dont be in there enough to know any staff really, he was a foreign lad i think.

[Hectorjelly]

Fair enough so, not something id be aware of. No big deal anyway. Dont be in there enough to know any staff really, he was a foreign lad i think.

As Wilde says, knows the price of everything and the value of nothing

[Raoul Duke III]

Navigating my 12 y/o through Dublin airport on the phone, on her way to Geneva.. Modern technology definitely a winner here, she'd be a 1/10 shot to get lost otherwise.

[Strewelpeter]

Navigating my 12 y/o through Dublin airport on the phone, on her way to Geneva.. Modern technology definitely a winner here, she'd be a 1/10 shot to get lost otherwise.

Did you leave her detailed instructions like this mother?

You should probably save this for future reference, won't be long before you need it

[Raoul Duke III]

On the plane, job done.

Couple beside me in the cafe are completely aghast at the notion of letting a 12 y/o travel alone. GFY Strangers.

[Trippie]

On the plane, job done.

Couple beside me in the cafe are completely aghast at the notion of letting a 12 y/o travel alone. GFY Strangers.

My wife had her friend and friends mother come visit us from Dallas. I couldn't even imagine either of them travelling alone and one is in her 50's. At least a 12 yr old has common sense about using phones

[tylerdurden94]

Damn it. You didn't see it in the Lighthouse on Friday at 7pm did you? I was walking to see it there from Clontarf and ran out of steam, opting for Cineworld at 7:15.

Yeah I saw the Maradona documentary but was a bit disappointed with it. Thought it started well but then got less insightful.

Went to Metal Heart with a couple of female friends and little enthusiasm today, but really enjoyed it. Dublin set coming of age job with some very funny stuff in it.

Nah I went to the afternoon showing on Thursday, surprisingly busy.

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[Trippie]

What'll she do in Geneva?

wonder where it all went wrong in irish politics and question why she couldn't grow up in a place that fulfilled it's potential through good politicians and policies.

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[Raoul Duke III]

Ah I just remembered Raouls sister lives there.

Montreux actually, at least for a few more weeks at which point they have rather inexplicably decided to move to Dublin.

[Raoul Duke III]

There's Grade A jazz wankery going on in Montreux all week but I doubt a 12 y/o can be turned from the true path of pop-dom. Laz would probably love it.

[Guest]

Donard is beautiful, I would say every single person who attempts in on a whim gets a bit of a gentle shock.

In other Northern Dispatches, the Catholic Workingmens Club in Newry is still healing the wounds of a long bitter grumbling session about the decision to up price of a Guiness from 2.50 to the Benefits-decimating heights of 2.70.

It wasnt so much a whim but just less prepared than normal.
It was pretty hot and brought too little water and I'm far too soft to be drinking out of the stream even though I know it's pretty much fine.
Certainly back up to do one of Commedagh, Binnian or Bearnagh soon.

It’s class, a tougher climb from the non-car park side, took us about 3-4hours when we did it. The views from the top are spectacular on a clear day so hopefully you got them. Give Carrantouhill a go aloe, especially on a clear day.

That's the Blood Bridge car park I'm guessing. Fantastic views, very fortunate with the weather.
She has done the highest in each province now over the past 2 months, she thought Donard was tougher than Carrantouhill though.
She's off to trek around Mt Blanc soon for 10 days, pretty much daily 1000m ascents and descents so I'm the training partner in the lead up
Very much enjoying them though tbf.

[pgodkin]

Hi

Would it be an unpopular position to propose another vote on both abortion and Gay marriage and when they pass (and both would pass) the second time ask all these C8nts to STFU?

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0706/1060550-rally-for-life/

Hello Everyone by the Way!!

[Raoul Duke III]

What's the problem?