Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - Mammy told me not to come.

[Guest]

Margaret Cash case is ridiculous really. It's so ridiculous, it's probably not even worth discussing:



She turned down perfectly good accomodation in Meath. Then refused to top up her HAP by €100 per month to get accomodation - rather play the media game and shoot for a council house.

As a taxpayer, you kinda expect to be taken for a ride. But this level is special, then with added entitlement and bullshit outrage on top. This, by the way Eamo, is part of the reason you can't afford a house.

The bolded is something that really does irk me. The idea that a person who is benefiting from the state to such an extent turns down perfectly fine accommodation(whatever the reason) is ridiculous.
I'm not sure of exactly what the repercussions should be as removing someone from the housing list for example isn't the answer.
I understand that being around family/community is important but it's a sacrifice that should be forced upon people as the their need for housing supersedes it.

[luckforsome]

...Apple did their yearly release today, with the Apple watch an interesting advance... They've really vamped up the health aspect of it, including now being able to do ECG's through your watch!... Fitbit share price dropped nearly 6.5% in 90 minutes of the release...
...Phone wise, the usual crap with better camera, look etc, but nothing significant...Will stick to my Samsung phone for a good while, but the watch excites me for 2019...

[Raoul Duke III]

The bolded is something that really does irk me. The idea that a person who is benefiting from the state to such an extent turns down perfectly fine accommodation(whatever the reason) is ridiculous.
I'm not sure of exactly what the repercussions should be as removing someone from the housing list for example isn't the answer.
I understand that being around family/community is important but it's a sacrifice that should be forced upon people as the their need for housing supersedes it.

This goes back to the point that Denny's man was eloquently making.

If your grandparents, your parents and now you get everything handed to you by the State, then it becomes very easy, natural in fact, to assume that you are fully entitled to this in perpetuity.

Thus, it's entirely understandable that Margaret Cash thinks she's entitled to get a large, free house for life in a place of her choosing. I doubt she has ever given a moment's thought to the suckers paying for it. And why should she?

This is absolutely not what the welfare state was intended to be.

[Lazare]

You'd enjoy this one too


Just as it is easier to recognize ill health in someone you haven't seen for some time rather than in someone you meet daily, so a visitor coming into a society from elsewhere often can see its character more clearly than those who live in it. Every few months, doctors from countries like the Philippines and India arrive fresh from the airport to work for a year's stint at my hospital. It is fascinating to observe their evolving response to British squalor.


At the start, they are uniformly enthusiastic about the care that we unsparingly and unhesitatingly give to everyone, regardless of economic status. They themselves come from cities—Manila, Bombay, Madras—where many of the cases we see in our hospital would simply be left to die, often without succor of any kind. And they are impressed that our care extends beyond the merely medical: that no one goes without food or clothing or shelter, or even entertainment. There seems to be a public agency to deal with every conceivable problem. For a couple of weeks, they think this all represents the acme of civilization, especially when they recall the horrors at home. Poverty—as they know it— has been abolished.


Before very long, though, they start to feel a vague unease. A Filipina doctor, for example, asked me why so few people seemed grateful for what was done for them. What prompted her question was an addict who, having collapsed from an accidental overdose of heroin, was brought to our hospital. He required intensive care to revive him, with doctors and nurses tending him all night. His first words to the doctor when he suddenly regained consciousness were, "Get me a fucking roll-up" (a hand-rolled cigarette). His imperious rudeness didn't arise from mere confusion: he continued to treat the staff as if they had kidnapped him and held him in the hospital against his will to perform experiments upon him. "Get me the fuck out of here!" There was no acknowledgment of what had been done for him, let alone gratitude for it. If he considered that he had received any benefit from his stay at all, well, it was simply his due.

https://www.city-journal.org/html/wh...rty-11845.html

I have a HAP neighbour this piece was written for.

[Raoul Duke III]

I have a HAP neighbour this piece was written for.

You should knock on his door, show him your P60 and demand gratitude.

[Lazare]

You should knock on his door, show him your P60 and demand gratitude.

It's a girl. I would if I hadn't found out her father and brother are in prison for beating pensioner farmers with crowbars to steal their guns for the McCarthy Dundons.

An absolute scumrunt of the highest order.

Owner has a For Sale sign up since April but agent can't gain access to put it up for sale.

Beautiful folk there before her, two artists. We are actually considering moving.

[Solksjaer!]

The bolded is something that really does irk me. The idea that a person who is benefiting from the state to such an extent turns down perfectly fine accommodation(whatever the reason) is ridiculous.
I'm not sure of exactly what the repercussions should be as removing someone from the housing list for example isn't the answer.
I understand that being around family/community is important but it's a sacrifice that should be forced upon people as the their need for housing supersedes it.

I'd rather die of thirst outside a hotel than reside as a Meath man

[Lazare]

She somehow got the neighbour beside her's wifi password some months ago, willingly given afaik.

Neighbour switched provider recently.

Cunt banged the door down aggressively wanting to know why she cut her internet off.

Not paying for bins, filling everyone else's, flicking butts down onto people's doorsteps. Roaring all over the place with that fucking horrible vomit accent.

Beautiful neighbours everywhere, bar this one one bed apartment above a duplex.

Neihbour below, who we had a great relationship with moved on because of her.

'Here you go, here's life for free'

'Grand, fuck you"

Have dreams of her dying horribly.

[Guest]

This goes back to the point that Denny's man was eloquently making.

If your grandparents, your parents and now you get everything handed to you by the State, then it becomes very easy, natural in fact, to assume that you are fully entitled to this in perpetuity.

Thus, it's entirely understandable that Margaret Cash thinks she's entitled to get a large, free house for life in a place of her choosing. I doubt she has ever given a moment's thought to the suckers paying for it. And why should she?

This is absolutely not what the welfare state was intended to be.

I couldn't agree more, it's not what it is intended for. I grew up amongst it, I knew (probably know) enough people legally & illegally milking the state for all it's worth but that still doesn't change my mind that continued social support is necessary in order to change the current situation.

It's quite clear that the countries that have the highest levels of well being, lowest crimes and most sought after social & economic situations are those that have the highest levels of social support.

There is certainly a deep rooted sense of entitlement amongst people here that needs to be changed but it's not a system that needs less support, it's simply a system that needs better support imo.

[Raoul Duke III]

I couldn't agree more, it's not what it is intended for. I grew up amongst it, I knew (probably know) enough people legally & illegally milking the state for all it's worth but that still doesn't change my mind that continued social support is necessary in order to change the current situation.

It's quite clear that the countries that have the highest levels of well being, lowest crimes and most sought after social & economic situations are those that have the highest levels of social support.

There is certainly a deep rooted sense of entitlement amongst people here that needs to be changed but it's not a system that needs less support, it's simply a system that needs better support imo.

To put it very succinctly: of course we need a welfare system, but we need one with very different outcomes.

Nobody wins from a culture of lifelong dependency.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

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[Raoul Duke III]

Starting school from age of two. Let kids be there 8am to 6pm, give them good lunches and good ideas. Then summer camps where they can go all summer and learn empowering things and be treated like proper kids. You fairly quickly break the generational cycle then. Leaving them pretty much to themselves until age of 5 though and just having minimal professional contact through limited school hours - with four months of summer hanging around the estate - and its no wonder the dysfunctional ideas win out.

^^^ this is the standard continental model. We largely just throw cash and no proper services except interventions at generational families of non-workers and then wonder why they don't cope themselves on.

Yeah, the Parisian banlieues really seem like a model of enlightened policy.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

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[Solksjaer!]

We've never had It so good

SPOILER

They used to use urine to tan animal skins, so families used to all pee in a pot & then once a day it was taken & Sold to the tannery.......if you had to do this to survive you were "Piss Poor"
But worse than that were the really poor folk who couldn't even afford to buy a pot......they "didn't have a pot to piss in" & were the lowest of the low. The next time you are washing your hands and complain because the water temperature isn't just how you like it, think about how things used to be.

Here are some facts about the 1500s:

Most people got married in June because they took their yearly bath in May, and they still smelled pretty good by June.. However, since they were starting to smell . ...... . Brides carried a bouquet of flowers to hide the body odor. Hence the custom today of carrying a bouquet when getting Married.

Baths consisted of a big tub filled with hot water. The man of the house had the privilege of the nice clean water, then all the other sons and men, then the women and finally the children. Last of all the babies. By then the water was so dirty you could actually lose someone in it.. Hence the saying, "Don't throw the baby out with the Bath water!"

Houses had thatched roofs-thick straw-piled high, with no wood underneath. It was the only place for animals to get warm, so all the cats and other small animals (mice, bugs) lived in the roof. When it rained it became slippery and sometimes the animals would slip and fall off the roof... Hence the saying "It's raining cats and dogs."

There was nothing to stop things from falling into the house. This posed a real problem in the bedroom where bugs and other droppings could mess up your nice clean bed. Hence, a bed with big posts and a sheet hung over the top afforded some protection. That's how canopy beds came into existence.

The floor was dirt. Only the wealthy had something other than dirt. Hence the saying, "Dirt poor." The wealthy had slate floors that would get slippery in the winter when wet, so they spread thresh (straw) on floor to help keep their footing. As the winter wore on, they added more thresh until, when you opened the door, it would all start slipping outside. A piece of wood was placed in the entrance-way. Hence: a thresh hold.

In those old days, they cooked in the kitchen with a big kettle that always hung over the fire.. Every day they lit the fire and added things to the pot. They ate mostly vegetables and did not get much meat. They would eat the stew for dinner, leaving leftovers in the pot to get cold overnight and then start over the next day. Sometimes stew had food in it that had been there for quite a while. Hence the rhyme: Peas porridge hot, peas porridge cold, peas porridge in the pot nine days old. Sometimes they could obtain pork, which made them feel quite special. When visitors came over, they would hang up their bacon to show off. It was a sign of wealth that a man could, "bring home the bacon." They would cut off a little to share with guests and would all sit around and chew the fat.

Those with money had plates made of pewter. Food with high acid content caused some of the lead to leach onto the food, causing lead poisoning death. This happened most often with tomatoes, so for the next 400 years or so, tomatoes were considered poisonous.

Bread was divided according to status. Workers got the burnt bottom of the loaf, the family got the middle, and guests got the top, or the upper crust.

Lead cups were used to drink ale or whisky. The combination would Sometimes knock the imbibers out for a couple of days. Someone walking along the road would take them for dead and prepare them for burial.. They were laid out on the kitchen table for a couple of days and the family would gather around and eat and drink and wait and see if they would wake up. Hence the custom of holding a wake.

England is old and small and the local folks started running out of places to bury people. So they would dig up coffins and would take the bones to a bone-house, and reuse the grave. When reopening these coffins, 1 out of 25 coffins were found to have scratch marks on the inside and they realized they had been burying people alive... So they would tie a string on the wrist of the corpse, lead it through the coffin and up through the ground and tie it to a bell. Someone would have to sit out in the graveyard all night (the graveyard shift.) to listen for the bell; thus, someone could be, saved by the bell or was considered a dead ringer.

[dobby]

After catching up on today's ramblings. This thread is relevant

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057881611/1

Hi people, sorry i havent replied to any comments on the thread.my head was melted and it came to a point were i sent a particular sinn fein group on the northside of dublin a message giving out stink to them about my situation. They had known about my situation from early days of me being homeless,they were the onea that told me to go into merchants quay for food etc.
So anyway i gave out to them and i got a phone call from one of them and he was amazed how i was still homeless and still staying where i was staying so he said hed get back to me that he was going to get onto parkgate house, he rang me back about an hour later and told me to go into parkgate house to talk to someone and said that they gonna put me on some kinda priority thing. So i went in and was talking to a man in there and told him about not being able to get anywhere with that HAP sh*te. So he said he was gonna find me a thing they call a 6 month bed but ita for as long as i need it. He said there was one in swords so i said if you can get me that id take it.
He rang me a few days later which was friday just gone and said there was a room after coming up in that place and has me booked in for monday (today) if i want it. I said yes ill take it.
So i checked in thismorning. Have a room to myself.its very quiet,staff are very nice.
So ill be here till i get somewhere on the HAP rental.

Just thought id let youse know my situation now. Next is job hunting or if a HAP accomidation is offered i be taken that.

Thanks for everyones input ðŸ‘

[Guest]

Pretty sure having a 2 year old spend 10 hours a day away from parents isn't the solution to much.

[Solksjaer!]

You have to consider scale here. They bring a huge amount of families successfully into living nice happy lives each year, but more just keep coming and coming. These things take time.

Dublin has pretty much had the same small set of families that they've consistently ignored generation after generation.

I thought the French were struggling to breed and crying out for kiddies

[Zod]

fuckin g lol at accepting a graph by FF Wicklow PR grifter Stephen Kearon at face value, and assuming the benefits are equivalent to cash in hand.

[Denny Crane]

I thought it was great that the Sinn Féin spokesperson for Justice was complaining about men in balaclavas.

[6starpool]

The apartment I have is rented out to someone getting a hefty hap payment. It wasn't what I had in mind but she is a working single mother from a good family in castleknock who is a personal friend of the letting agent who vouched her her, so I have some moral high ground with little risk (hopefully). She even replaced some old carpet with wood flooring at her own expense.

Hap is the future!

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

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[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

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[RichieM]

Speaking of people who don’t contribute to society having babies. This recruitment consultant has just had his first, a son.

It’s an incredible feeling just to watch him sleep

[ionapaul]

Ah, congrats man! That's great news

[oleras]

Congratulations Richie !

You did well the first time, had the heir...wrap it up..gg.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

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[Guest]

Thinly veiled 'my newborn sleeps' brag.

[TheJiggaman]

DJ did the dirty on Paulina Gretzky

[eamonhonda]

DJ did the dirty on Paulina Gretzky

Again? Hardly surprising, wasn't there rumours it was someone else's wife from the tour the last time?

Why do these gobshites get married when they wanna sniff coke and ride around

[Silver-Tiger]

Why do these gobshites get married when they wanna sniff coke and ride around

Sergio had his mother on his arm at a Ryder cup. You wouldn't catch DJ at that carry on. Hope he has the new piece of tail on his arm in Paris in two weeks!!

DJ has used about 50% of his potential in his career so far imo. Man doesn't give a fcuk.

Seen a good question on twitter.

If DJ and Brooks retired tomorrow. Who's career is better?

DJ - 19 PGA tour Wins Inc 1 Major and 5WGC, Reached World #1

Brooks. 4 PGA Tour wins inc 3 Majors. 1 Euro Tour Win.

[Raoul Duke III]

In any case wanting to either continue doing the same thing that's causing the current problems (throwing cash rather than smart care at problem), or make it even more punitive, is never the answer to solving societal problems (just like prison has pretty much never solved anything). People need positive motivation, it's not much use with adults but hugely useful with changing future paths of kids.

I'll fully agree with you on that. Let (force? Push?) people to realise their potential and become positive actors.

The whole 'hand up vs handout' thang...

[TheJiggaman]

If DJ and Brooks retired tomorrow. Who's career is better?

DJ - 19 PGA tour Wins Inc 1 Major and 5WGC, Reached World #1

Brooks. 4 PGA Tour wins inc 3 Majors. 1 Euro Tour Win.

DJ

[Raoul Duke III]

The apartment I have is rented out to someone getting a hefty hap payment. It wasn't what I had in mind but she is a working single mother from a good family in castleknock who is a personal friend of the letting agent who vouched her her, so I have some moral high ground with little risk (hopefully). She even replaced some old carpet with wood flooring at her own expense.

Hap is the future!

On the downside, you are now a bloodsucking vampire leech preying on people's misery who will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.

UL

[Silver-Tiger]

DJ

I'm not sure.

This way different to the Would you take Shaun Micheel / Ben Curtis Career over West / Monty because they have one Major. No fcuking way would you.

3 time Major Winners is a serious group to be in.

Brooks is 6 years younger than DJ too.

[DeadParrot]

Speaking of people who don’t contribute to society having babies. This recruitment consultant has just had his first, a son.

It’s an incredible feeling just to watch him sleep

I know exactly what you mean, congrats man.
You will no doubt be told, sleep when the baby sleeps.
I didn't but dont regret a jot of it as I got to coo and simper to my hearts content watching her

[Zod]

You know instead of attacking the person who delivered the facts, why not share your alternative facts.

Also, benefits not being equal to cash in hand. I'd love for you to elaborate on thst as well. Were they asking her to barter butter vouchers for a 4 bed semi in Rathgar.

These figures are being put forward as if she is earning 50k into her pocket from the state, when the bulk of that money is going to landlords and what isn't is for feeding and clothing herself and her family.

If you're not looking at the ideology of those creating such graphs and their reasons for sharing them then you are blinding yourself from important information in judging the situation.

And to be honest I'd rather have a hot poker put up my hole than discuss anything political with you. It's impossible to determine whether you're on the level or at it, and that's not a good thing because if your bullshit is indeterminable from your actual beliefs it makes you look like a complete shithead.

[Denny Crane]

These figures are being put forward as if she is earning 50k into her pocket from the state, when the bulk of that money is going to landlords and what isn't is for feeding and clothing herself and her family.

Less than a third of it was for housing? How many single people get 50k after tax?

[Denny Crane]

What's the best option for lodging a cheque in dollars for a few k? Just in the local AIB or is there more efficient options?

[Strewelpeter]

These figures are being put forward as if she is earning 50k into her pocket from the state, when the bulk of that money is going to landlords and what isn't is for feeding and clothing herself and her family.

Wat?Money is money and income is income what difference does it make that a benefit is paid directly for accomodation
If you or I earn 50K a year and pay half of whats left after tax as mortgage or rent thats is money that comes into our pockets and goes back out.

In what way are the figures inaccurate? Perhaps in the one off payments, schemes and allowances available to those who know how to play the system effectively that are not included?


Given that a single mother of 7 is such an outlier its probably a spurious question but if you have that level of benefits coming into a household do you pay tax on them the same as you would if there was someone in the home out working for 50K a year ?

[Zod]

Less than a third of it was for housing? How many single people get 50k after tax?

She isn't getting 50k after tax.

[RichieM]

Thinly veiled 'my newborn sleeps' brag.

Have been told it dosnt last

[Zod]

Wat?Money is money and income is income what difference does it make that a benefit is paid directly for accomodation
If you or I earn 50K a year and pay half of whats left after tax as mortgage or rent thats is money that comes into our pockets and goes back out.

In what way are the figures inaccurate? Perhaps in the one off payments, schemes and allowances available to those who know how to play the system effectively that are not included?


Given that a single mother of 7 is such an outlier its probably a spurious question but if you have that level of benefits coming into a household do you pay tax on them the same as you would if there was someone in the home out working for 50K a year ?

The very fact she is an outlier is used by people like Kearon to suggest she is undeservant of aid, that she is somehow unworthy of having kids beyond a certain number.

Yes, there is a total benefit cost to the state, but there are more important and wider impacting reasons that figure is at the level it is and it's not the number of kids that is causing it.

[6starpool]

The very fact she is an outlier is used by people like Kearon to suggest she is undeservant of aid, that she is somehow unworthy of having kids beyond a certain number.

Yes, there is a total benefit cost to the state, but there are more important and wider impacting reasons that figure is at the level it is and it's not the number of kids that is causing it.

Do you think people having kids (whether 1 or 7) largely so that the state will give them housing and enough benefits to not have to work is a good thing that should be funded without question?

I know things are painted into a corner in terms of they can't be left to starve in the gutter, but it shouldn't be an alternative that is attractive enough to be viable.

[Strewelpeter]

The very fact she is an outlier is used by people like Kearon to suggest she is undeservant of aid, that she is somehow unworthy of having kids beyond a certain number.

Yes, there is a total benefit cost to the state, but there are more important and wider impacting reasons that figure is at the level it is and it's not the number of kids that is causing it.

I'm certainly not talking about any individual and I think the consensus here is that no matter how ridiculous the behaviour of parents its important that the state protect children and do whatever possible to help them achieve a decent future.

At the same time you appear to be distorting reality by stating that benefits are not directly equivalent to after tax income.

[Zod]

I'm certainly not talking about any individual and I think the consensus here is that no matter how ridiculous the behaviour of parents its important that the state protect children and do whatever possible to help them achieve a decent future.

At the same time you appear to be distorting reality by stating that benefits are not directly equivalent to after tax income.

I'm saying that using HAP figures to demonise individual cases as if it was money directly into their pocket to spend has an ideological background to demonise all social welfare recepients

[Keane]

There was a discussion a little while ago about different types of whiskeys to add to the cupboard. I am down to my last few bottles and wouldn't mind trying out a few of the suggestions.

Is there any website that is typically best price or is it just a case of keeping an eye in grocery shops and offies hoping to pick up a lucky bargain?

[TheJiggaman]

I'm not sure.

This way different to the Would you take Shaun Micheel / Ben Curtis Career over West / Monty because they have one Major. No fcuking way would you.

3 time Major Winners is a serious group to be in.

Brooks is 6 years younger than DJ too.

I get you, but if you were to ask 100 people, I'm guessing at least 70 would say DJ right now.

[Zod]

Despite what you might like, your subscription to the below thesis doesn't really wash. It might work in your echo chamber, but it doesn't really work in the real world.

And your echo chamber is representative of the real world? ok. Like, ffs that isn't even my thesis but again you're either claiming that it is in order to wind me up or you actually believe it, either case just makes you look like a dick.

Facts absolutely do matter. I'm not saying the cost to the state in the figures are wrong, I'm stating the use of the figures to demonise a particular case is driven by ideological reasons.

[Denny Crane]

I'm saying that using HAP figures to demonise individual cases as if it was money directly into their pocket to spend has an ideological background to demonise all social welfare recepients

She isn't getting 50k after tax.

These figures are being put forward as if she is earning 50k into her pocket from the state, when the bulk of that money is going to landlords and what isn't is for feeding and clothing herself and her family.

I really don't get this Zod. Most people spend a substantial portion of their income on rent or mortgage, does it not count as income for them either?

Her 50k from the state is far more than most people take home, it's higher than the average industrial wage before any deductions!

[Zod]

tell us what she is getting so? So far I've seen one person quantify her benefits on a factual basis, and I've seen one person saying that she isn't getting it but providing no basis that that assertion.

If you insist on seeing "She's costing 50k a year" as the fault in this situation there's no point in me continuing.

[Zod]

Ah there you go again. Do you have any other approach to this other than to attack the individual? It is the lowest form of debate. But maybe if you don't have anything else to rely on to support the assertions you are making then you are forced to go this route.

Go back and look at the cartoon you posted and claimed it's a thesis I suvbscribe to, and that i live in an "echo chamber" and not the real world and get back to me about not attacking the person.

[Guest]

If you insist on seeing "She's costing 50k a year" as the fault in this situation there's no point in me continuing.

I critiqued some people about their opinions of this situation yesterday but you are way off the mark and are making very little sense tbh.

[Raoul Duke III]

She isn't getting 50k after tax.

'Tax' is not an issue in this case.

Zod, you've thrown around plenty of insults and determinedly played the men instead of the ball. If this was a courtroom, the case would be over.

Put up or shut up with some numbers.

[Zod]

I really don't get this Zod. Most people spend a substantial portion of their income on rent or mortgage, does it not count as income for them either?

Her 50k from the state is far more than most people take home, it's higher than the average industrial wage before any deductions!

She isn't earning 50k though. The benefits are costing the state that amount. She gets what her children are entitled to through our social welfare program, and those figures are being used to attack her for not uprooting her family to another county, or to not move into substandard accommodation, or to continue on a scheme with no security of tenancy.

[Strewelpeter]

I'm saying that using HAP figures to demonise individual cases as if it was money directly into their pocket to spend has an ideological background to demonise all social welfare recepients

that's idealogical nonsense, and you know it.

facts are facts and the only difference between a lad working 120 days a year to pay the rent and someone who minds a family and has the rent paid by the state is where the money comes from.

[Raoul Duke III]

tell us what she is getting so? So far I've seen one person quantify her benefits on a factual basis, and I've seen one person saying that she isn't getting it but providing no basis that that assertion.

Her husband also costs the State a lot of money.

€60k per anumn for food and board.

[Zod]

'Tax' is not an issue in this case.

Zod, you've thrown around plenty of insults and determinedly played the men instead of the ball. If this was a courtroom, the case would be over.

Put up or shut up with some numbers.

i've said that when it's indeterminable if what a person says is their own opinion or a wind up then it makes them look like a dick. If that hits home enough to personally offend someone then maybe the issue isn't with me.
I've not said the figures in the sheet are wrong, I've said the way they are presented has issues.

And yes, I'll happily play the man and not the ball with Kearon, a man who was charging the state tens of thousands of euro a year to manage a web page for a TD when he then attacks someone else for costing the state tens of thousands of euro.

[Western_Sean]

i've said that when it's indeterminable if what a person says is their own opinion or a wind up then it makes them look like a dick. If that hits home enough to personally offend someone then maybe the issue isn't with me.
I've not said the figures in the sheet are wrong, I've said the way they are presented has issues.

And yes, I'll happily play the man and not the ball with Kearon, a man who was charging the state tens of thousands of euro a year to manage a web page for a TD when he then attacks someone else for costing the state tens of thousands of euro.

I find the idea of treating all forms of state largesse as equal to be intuitively very pleasing. HSE managers and TD / TDs secretaries as recipients of "administrative welfare" is somehow more satisfactory as one of the poor amadans paying for it all.

[Zod]

that's idealogical nonsense, and you know it.

facts are facts and the only difference between a lad working 120 days a year to pay the rent and someone who minds a family and has the rent paid by the state is where the money comes from.

HAP is an unsustainable band-aid for a system that is at breaking point. I can't believe pointing this out is a controversial point here but again, maybe that's just my echo chamber.

[Raoul Duke III]

i've said that when it's indeterminable if what a person says is their own opinion or a wind up then it makes them look like a dick. If that hits home enough to personally offend someone then maybe the issue isn't with me.
I've not said the figures in the sheet are wrong, I've said the way they are presented has issues.

And yes, I'll happily play the man and not the ball with Kearon, a man who was charging the state tens of thousands of euro a year to manage a web page for a TD when he then attacks someone else for costing the state tens of thousands of euro.

It's clearly not a wind-up.

It reads like exasperation at someone who has waded into a debate throwing insults but brings zero actual facts or analysis.

If you went into a work meeting in this frame of mind, you would be told to STFU quicksmart. And rightly so.