Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - Mammy told me not to come.

[Lazare]

Canada the PC capital of the world has changed its national anthem to make it gender neutral. Nothing is scared.

You are.

[Hectorjelly]

HJ, this would be a fairly liberal/lefty forum on the whole correct?

No not at all. I think the forum is pretty representative of a random collection of smart Irish males. The abortion debate proved that this is actually a pretty conservative grouping.

The vast majority disagree with you completely on the above topic where you are deciding what way women should act and think.

Do you ever for a second look at the arguments presented to you? Ever wonder if maybe you might be wrong?

The arguments I'm presenting are in no way extreme - nothing I've said is in the least bit controversial. There are many groups of people where what I'm saying would be considered crazy, because it isn't extreme enough. Also, on these subjects there is often no objective truth. Maybe we should live in a patriarchal society where women are treated as slaves. I'm not sure you can prove that belief is somehow wrong.

It just seems that once you have decided on something then there is no moving and everyone else is an idiot. Makes you come across as an arrogant prick.

I haven't heard anything that I haven't already read or considered - possibly it got lost amongst all the nonsense.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[Hectorjelly]

This is such a horrendous comparison similar to HJ's Child Labour one.

Women who are proud of their looks getting well paid to show them off is not hurting or offending anyone.

You think this...many don't. If you saying it somehow proved anything then we could move on.

Are you a prude? Is sex something that should be hidden and shunned?

This is a bit of a silly strawman argument. The problem isn't with sex.

If women want to be models (and there is no distinction here, the Pit Girls/Darts girls are models.) then what gives you the right to decide it is wrong?

Apples are fruit, but not all fruit are models. Get what I'm saying?

[eoghan104]

Your aggressive and angry argument style doesn't lend itself well to back and forth debate Eoghan. Not just in this instance, you regularly argue that way.
You missed my point in your first paragraph while backing it up.
You then asked me a ridiculous passive aggressive question, 'Are you a prude?'. Again not really getting any point at all.

As I said, other people are doing a better job with the argument than me.

Didn't mean to be aggressive and still think you're topman!

[Hectorjelly]

What is wrong with using sex to glamorise things?

Serious question.

Perhaps nothing, personally I find it distasteful and demeaning, but I suppose the real problem isn't with this, but more along the lines of how Strewelpeter put it, the practice objectifies women.

[KevIRL]

Am I still allowed to despise tinkers? Male and female ones.

[Emmet]

Am I still allowed to despise tinkers? Male and female ones.

Only the unsexy ones

[Guest]

All job interviews should be conducted with people wearing a bag over their head to remove benefits of beauty\handsomeness privilege.(body will have to be concealed so non fatsos don’t benefit from thin privelege)also voice will have to be run through a gender neutral Steven hawking style speaker so you cant tell the gender and remove any geography privilege that might be realized from the persons accent. AlUntil we do all this there will be no such thing as equality

[RichieM]

Only the unsexy ones

no buying anything from the sexy ones tho

[Guest]

Semi topical,Joanne Cantwell is new Sunday game presenter,I’m sure that will trigger a few out there.shes a good presenter. (And whisper it,

SPOILER

not bad looking either

Sorry lads tried to put nsfw tags around that last bit for lax and hj but they wouldn’t work

[Lazare]

As I said, other people are doing a better job with the argument than me.

Didn't mean to be aggressive and still think you're topman!

I obviously think you're a top bloke too bro, I'm glad I didn't offend you as I didn't intend to.

[CHDad]

Am I still allowed to despise tinkers? Male and female ones.

You're from Waterford, therefore you're a pikey.

[RichieM]

All job interviews should be conducted with people wearing a bag over their head to remove benefits of beauty\handsomeness privilege.(body will have to be concealed so non fatsos don’t benefit from thin privelege)also voice will have to be run through a gender neutral Steven hawking style speaker so you cant tell the gender and remove any geography privilege that might be realized from the persons accent. AlUntil we do all this there will be no such thing as equality

There was someone trying to petition for photos to be removed from LinkedIn as they felt it was contributing to bias in who recruiters were approaching. Got a bit of traction before it faded away.

[jack90210]

Any The Chase fans? The Dark Destroyer has been renamed The Destroyer for PC reasons. Soon it will be Chaser A, Chaser B etc.

The Beast that’s clearly demeaning to fat people, the vixen well that is sexualising a smart woman, the governess well that is stereotyping older women and the sinnerman is that slur on Asians?

Everything can be offensive if you want it to be.

[Guest]

Take the Mayweather-McGregor fight recently, the girls in bikinis after the fight advertising beer I think were there to look sexy nothing more. The fact that it turned so creepy as their rictus like smiles stayed in place for so fucking long it ruined the illusion only highlights how they are perceived by their employers and indeed how the employers see us the consumer .

.

That one was bizarre they were standing in the background with the exact same rictus smile for half an hour straight at one stage

[The Situation]

I never find myself particularly disagreeing with much of what Hectorjelly says, but just find it all so joyless and very difficult to relate to, almost on disingenuous levels. Otherwise day to day life must be a real struggle for you if you genuinely react to things to the levels of what I read on the daily here in your never ending pursuit of the fundamental rightness of absolutely everything.

[eamonhonda]

Any The Chase fans? The Dark Destroyer has been renamed The Destroyer for PC reasons. Soon it will be Chaser A, Chaser B etc.

The Beast that’s clearly demeaning to fat people, the vixen well that is sexualising a smart woman, the governess well that is stereotyping older women and the sinnerman is that slur on Asians?

Everything can be offensive if you want it to be.

His name is Paul Sinha i.e. the sinnerman

[Strewelpeter]

All job interviews should be conducted with people wearing a bag over their head to remove benefits of beauty\handsomeness privilege.(body will have to be concealed so non fatsos don’t benefit from thin privelege)also voice will have to be run through a gender neutral Steven hawking style speaker so you cant tell the gender and remove any geography privilege that might be realized from the persons accent. AlUntil we do all this there will be no such thing as equality

Its political correctness gone mad I tells ya

[Strewelpeter]

His name is Paul Sinha i.e. the sinnerman

Nah Shaun Wallace

any site with stats on how the chasers perform?

I've reduced my viewing of the Chase to just the Final chase. Jump in @50 mins and if there happens to be a big amount go back and watch that leg.
It makes a great 8 minute show.

[Trippie]

Two things:

I've read all these posts and a lot of the points seem to be scattered. I'm trying to understand why there could be outrage at the removal of said women from darts and F1. How does it actually impact your viewing experience of the sport? I was a massive F1 fan and whether or not the "grid girls" are there had no impact on whether or not I watched it.

I think we can all agree that the harassment of women is wrong and shouldn't occur. If by getting rid of these positions, we reduce the risk of women being harassed such as the darts women groped or the girl at the Tour of Flanders whos ass Peter Sagan grabbed live on tv. Then surely thats a positive thing? We need to change the system that allows this to happen and not bury heads in sand saying that was just one bad person. (Catholic church for example).

Leading Change is a very good book detailing out why people can be resistant to change. Well worth a read, especially those confused about societal change.

Second point, I'm married to a woman who became a industry leader in an all male industry and also worked in DC concurrently. She wrote a letter to Al Franken after his stuff came out saying that what he did was nothing like what she experienced coming up through the industry. She was distraught when Trump became president not because of him but because of the "legitimisation of the illegitimate". She has first hand knowledge and experience of what it was like when the deck was stacked against you as a woman or minority. She "battled" (and i use that word uneasily as its a very antagonistic word) to be considered equal even though she was smartest and hardest working person in the board room.

My wife had one of those door locking/unlocking desk buttons because her office was very big and it was a hassle of getting up and down to close the door, it was not a harassment button to lock people in her office but she is sure some people abused it. She happily would have given it up if it meant a young woman 10 states away couldn't be locked in a room and assaulted.

[eamonhonda]

Nah Shaun Wallace

any site with stats on how the chasers perform?

I've reduced my viewing of the Chase to just the Final chase. Jump in @50 mins and if there happens to be a big amount go back and watch that leg.
It makes a great 8 minute show.

How dare you question my Chase knowledge and then be wrong. Dark Destroyer = Shaun Wallace. Sinnerman = Paul Sinha.

Some person did a stats spreadsheet that I had come across before but not sure how updated it was. No idea where it was I'll see if I can find it. Dark Destroyer was worst and The beast was the best.

[Solksjaer!]

How dare you question my Chase knowledge and then be wrong. Dark Destroyer = Shaun Wallace. Sinnerman = Paul Sinha.

Some person did a stats spreadsheet that I had come across before but not sure how updated it was. No idea where it was I'll see if I can find it. Dark Destroyer was worst and The beast was the best.

Can we still call frosty knickers the Governess?

[eamonhonda]

Oh I'm wrong actually Governess was top.

http://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/the-chase-chaser-statistics_uk_573b1a74e4b01359f6877f4e

[LuckyLloyd]

Vintage bbv though it has to be said. Just missing Lloyd.

I actually fall somewhat on Darragh's side on this one, though I think it's a complex issue. I remember being in my late teens and early twenties and I knew lots of girls who were able to garner easy part time cash from doing "promotions" work. It was obviously based on them being young and female but it suited them to take advantage of it. Generally involved turning up somewhere for a couple of hours, being mildly enthusiastic about something and getting paid for it. Meanwhile I was lugging heavy boxes around storerooms; shifting kegs about the place or doing security to make my few quid to pay for college. I know which jobs were easier, and if you were doing what they were doing you were gaining some direct experience of sales and marketing.

There is a chicken and egg component to the entire debate like. If you stop having jobs like this you remove the possibility of women being influenced by it; but starting that process denies a paying opportunity to women who are more than willing to do the work and fundamentally like and want to be oogled for their looks. Of course, that desire is borne from this sort of thing being an undercurrent in society. So it's quite the merry go round.

The elephant in the room will always be the fact that there is a percentage of women who genuinely don't want to be treated equally. Not all women are feminists, as mad as that may sound. They understand from an early age that their looks can gain favour from men and they can manipulate that favour to their advantage - financial and otherwise. That remains true in very serious professional environments. The focus post weinstein is on women being manipulated, and each case of that is dead wrong, but it does and will continue to go the other way were women are a willing participant - happy to trade their sexuality for a part or a promotion or whatever.

What to do? I think you go Darragh's route, but it leaves me uneasy. We will never have true equality of outcomes due to many factors, but partly because people don't want equality of outcome or even opportunity. But yeah, it's definitely not as black and white and cut and dried as some would like it to be.

[Guest]

Actually hdont have any issue with losing the girls from F1 /darts ,don’t watch either,only sports I watch with similar are mma/boxing and would make any difference to me if the ring girls were dropped
I do have a problem with some of the inferences being made in the discussions that accompany these decisions mainly this picture that is painted of a patriarchal dystopia ,”aren’t men just beastly” etc. I dunno I work in a workplace where women are a majority,wife ,sisters other women I know I don’t recognize them in a lot of the more deranged commentary I see online.

[Solksjaer!]

The Shinnerman has spoken.

[Theresa]

I never find myself particularly disagreeing with much of what Hectorjelly says, but just find it all so joyless and very difficult to relate to, almost on disingenuous levels. Otherwise day to day life must be a real struggle for you if you genuinely react to things to the levels of what I read on the daily here in your never ending pursuit of the fundamental rightness of absolutely everything.

You're not big on self awareness are you?

[LuckyLloyd]

The Shinnerman has spoken.

Is that me?

[Theresa]

The job of a "server" in bars in Canada is a female dominated industry. Males don't have a chance.

I have never once seen a male server but have heard of it. Women can make tonnes of cash in tips here as a server. Some girls I know bank $1000 a weekend in tips.

Their ability to make tips is based entirely on their gender, and good looks increases the average % tip. How does this fall into the debate?

[eamonhonda]

[Solksjaer!]

Is that me?

Hmmm either him Or the Beast.

[Guest]

But yeah, it's definitely not as black and white and cut and dried as some would like it to be.

The world is shades of grey floating on the tide of time
You go with it or you don't
On each subject you can be subjective
or not
That's life, that's all it is!

[Strewelpeter]

Oh I'm wrong actually Governess was top.

http://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/...b01359f6877f4e

List is more or less as I imagined it I'd say Paul is gone past Mark for No 2 spot, Mark seems to be falling to pieces more often these days.
They all get very upset when they lose, I wonder if they are paid on performance?

[6starpool]

Anyone thinking that most people are:

a) outraged
b) annoyed that this will detract from darts/F1 etc enjoyment

Are either not reading posts properly or deliberately misrepresenting them to make the something they are not.

The point that I am trying to make anyhow, is that if someone pays someone who willingly does it, what business is it of mine or anyone else's? It is no bad thing that it I off the telly, but the reasons for stopping it are less than noble (legal and financial have been mentioned).

On a similar, and more complex note, if two fully consenting adults (of any gender) want to exchange money for sexual acts, why should anyone object? This doesn't mean that most prostitution isn't forced exploitation of women and rightly criminalised, but people actually choosing to engage in it is none of my business.

This is a similar argument to drug legalisation. If people choose to, then off with them, I don't care, but I won't be partaking.

[NoRiverRequired]

Thoughts on Rachel Riley on countdown then lads surely her dresses must disgust some of you??

SPOILER

No further comment.

[Hectorjelly]

Anyone thinking that most people are:

a) outraged
b) annoyed that this will detract from darts/F1 etc enjoyment

Are either not reading posts properly or deliberately misrepresenting them to make the something they are not.

The point that I am trying to make anyhow, is that if someone pays someone who willingly does it, what business is it of mine or anyone else's? It is no bad thing that it I off the telly, but the reasons for stopping it are less than noble (legal and financial have been mentioned).

On a similar, and more complex note, if two fully consenting adults (of any gender) want to exchange money for sexual acts, why should anyone object? This doesn't mean that most prostitution isn't forced exploitation of women and rightly criminalised, but people actually choosing to engage in it is none of my business.

This is a similar argument to drug legalisation. If people choose to, then off with them, I don't care, but I won't be partaking.

None of these things are the same, you are missing the crucial point that has been made a few times. I too would legalise drug use and prostitution, but I don't think the F1 winner should be awarded their trophy by a naked prostitute mad out of it on PCP. Although actually that would be pretty cool.

That reminds me, I read the reddit thread on this subject last night, there was a great suggestion; replace the bikini clad women with doggos.

[jack90210]

List is more or less as I imagined it I'd say Paul is gone past Mark for No 2 spot, Mark seems to be falling to pieces more often these days.
They all get very upset when they lose, I wonder if they are paid on performance?

Hmmm that’s list isn’t fully accurate for a few reasons:

1. It’s important to note how they do in first round as well and how much cash they concede.
2. I reckon the longer serving chasers are at an advantage on the long term stats as the series have progressed players would have learnt better strategies etc.

Without looking at the stats I would have said the top to bottom most feared would be 1. Beast 2. Dark destroyer 3 sinnerman 4 frosty knickers 5 vixen

Would be interested to know if they get a performance bonus alright.

[6starpool]

What are doggos?

[Tar.Aldarion]

None of these things are the same, you are missing the crucial point that has been made a few times. I too would legalise drug use and prostitution, but I don't think the F1 winner should be awarded their trophy by a naked prostitute mad out of it on PCP. Although actually that would be pretty cool.

That reminds me, I read the reddit thread on this subject last night, there was a great suggestion; replace the bikini clad women with doggos.

Great then it would be my turn to post about puppies seeing these bikini clad doggos* on tv





*dogs

[Strewelpeter]

Hmmm that’s list isn’t fully accurate for a few reasons:

1. It’s important to note how they do in first round as well and how much cash they concede.
2. I reckon the longer serving chasers are at an advantage on the long term stats as the series have progressed players would have learnt better strategies etc.

Without looking at the stats I would have said the top to bottom most feared would be 1. Beast 2. Dark destroyer 3 sinnerman 4 frosty knickers 5 vixen

Would be interested to know if they get a performance bonus alright.

Another interesting angle would be how they do against a total, Shaun and Paul both seem to me to get themselves under more pressure when they are facing 18+ especially if they make any stupid mistake. Thats why Anne is the best she mostly lets the mistakes roll off her.

[Hectorjelly]

What are doggos?

Reddit/meme/internet name for dogs

[DeadParrot]

All job interviews should be conducted with people wearing a bag over their head to remove benefits of beauty\handsomeness privilege.(body will have to be concealed so non fatsos don’t benefit from thin privelege)also voice will have to be run through a gender neutral Steven hawking style speaker so you cant tell the gender and remove any geography privilege that might be realized from the persons accent. AlUntil we do all this there will be no such thing as equality

in reality how is this any different that ending the practice of putting address, martial status and in some places, a photo on a CV.

Ideally, yes you want people judged on intellect, skills and actions. How is that a bad thing?

[DeadParrot]

That reminds me, I read the reddit thread on this subject last night, there was a great suggestion; replace the bikini clad women with doggos.

What are doggos?

Sign me up

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[Guest]

Photo is standard on a CV nowadays, no?

I've been looking around at jobs lately and I haven't come across that as a suggestion.

I would have thought it's unnecessary given so many people attach their LinkedIn and most will have a picture.

[6starpool]

I have no photo on my cv, wouldn't even cross my mind. I don't have marital status or hobbies either. I only put relevant things on it. I have my photo on LinkedIn though, and I doubt there is anyone else with the same name as me on there.

[6starpool]

Reddit is a weird place.

[eamonhonda]

Somebody recommend me a solid documentary

[MrsFlushdraw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgll-XTqcS4

[Guest]

I have no photo on my cv, wouldn't even cross my mind. I don't have marital status or hobbies either. I only put relevant things on it. I have my photo on LinkedIn though, and I doubt there is anyone else with the same name as me on there.

I had a picture on it but it was a cropped pic of me on the beer on reflection I figured no pic was possibly better.

LinkedIn came in before Xmas with a photographer to give a talk and free profile pics. Most of the class showed up for that, it's a good idea to attract people to those types of talks.

Somebody recommend me a solid documentary

Definitely Jim Carrey's Andy Kaufman documentary if you havent seen it. One of the best I've seen.

[eamonhonda]

I haven't, that'll do cheers

[Flushdraw]

Photo is standard on a CV nowadays, no?

I got about 20 CV's in over the past 3-4 weeks for a position we're hiring for. 4 had photos (3 guys/1 girl)

I don't think you need one.

One guy applied for a writing position. I opened his CV and the first thing i saw was a colour photo from the shoulders up, and a guy the image of Pablo Escobar. He referenced in his cover lever about 'why am i sending you a shirtless picture of myself, with a tache that makes me look like Pablo Escobar'

I wasn't sure what to think, but the gaming industry is weird anyway!

[ionapaul]

In Ireland photos on CVs are almost unheard of. The only times I've seen them is when 'them out foreign' apply for jobs.

[Wombatman]

What is wrong with using sex to glamorise things?

Serious question.

And there you have it folks. Kids and other women see women wearing skimpy outfits. Emmet sees sex.

Pretty sad really that a women in a bikini, holding up a board with a number on it, in a room full of men, means 'sex' to some people.

BTW Laz there are more female doctors in the UK than male. If you want to balance the books get them to become car mechanics, but I'm guessing that career choice might be a little too blue collar for you. What ever happened to wanting your kids to be happy, healthy, smart, confident people?

[Emmet]

And there you have it folks. Kids and other women see women wearing skimpy outfits. Emmet sees sex.

Pretty sad really that a women in a bikini, holding up a board with a number on it, in a room full of men, means 'sex' to some people.

BTW Laz there are more female doctors in the UK than male. If you want to balance the books get them to become car mechanics, but I'm guessing that career choice might be a little too blue collar for you. What ever happened to wanting your kids to be happy, healthy, smart, confident people?

ehm...

You are conflating two distinct things. Handsome people selling things is not the same as a job made specifically for one gender that uses sex to glamourise something.

What is wrong with using sex to glamorise things?
Serious question.

[Guest]

What else would a woman in a bikini indoors at night in a room full of men mean?

[Raoul Duke III]

What else would a woman in a bikini indoors at night in a room full of men mean?

I googled this very question and got some sage advice.

[luckforsome]

Somebody recommend me a solid documentary

...I've just finished watching dirty money- 6 separate documentaries about different things... I think the one about Valeant and the one about the racing car driver scott tucker were excellent, also a decent one about the Maple Syrup heist... Would recommend all except the trump one...

[Raoul Duke III]

I am glad you are all struggling with questions of gender identity.

I'm opening a book on which one of you first comes out as gender fluid (Tar a non-runner). Mike Bullocks currently evens favourite. I've seen things.