Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - Mammy told me not to come.

[ArmaniJeans]

What if they don't want to do what you designate as acceptable? Have you ever considered some women (and some men) enjoy been desired, envied etc. why shouldn't they? Who are we to judge. The women whose jobs have been taken would have loved the lifestyle and opportunities the job presented them.

As was hinted at before, feminism appears to be making women less liberated rather than more liberated. You can't wear this, you can't work as that.

F1 and Darts have made a business decision.
If the demand for darts or motorsport with walk-on-girls is still there then it will turn out to have been a terrible business decision and someone else will fill the void in the market.
Dressing it up as 'jobs taken away', or liberals saying 'you cant work at that' is a bit ott.

[Mellor]

Apparently places with more than two floors here have to have fire corridors between the top floor and the exit, which means fire doors along the route to the front door.

The place we are looking at doesn't have them so I'm trying to figure out just how much they cost. From a resale pov as much as anything.

I had a feeling that was it. It's something a lot of people miss when they convert the attic. In your case is it a converted attic or 3 normal stories.
You might not need to install entirely need doors. If they are reasonable solid doors, you might only need to install doors closers. The concealed type are cheap (€15) and don't stand out above the doors.

Actually, did you get certificates of compliance with building regs from the vendor? Should have flagged it. Might be able to squeeze them forbit.

[MrsFlushdraw]

SPOILER

https://media.giphy.com/media/IE4my1dfCBfMc/giphy.gif

Haha, I was actually going to put a comment about fat blokes, but since the clubs here are not really full of that since it is a young community area, I decided not to

My 24 year old cousin visited last year, good looking girl. First place her and her male friend went was the White Palace, said she had a great time lol

[Strewelpeter]

Are you a prude? Is sex something that should be hidden and shunned?

Whatever this is about it is not prudishness.

Women who are proud of their looks getting well paid to show them off is not hurting or offending anyone.

It would seem that this is exactly the reason darts and F1 are dropping the practice.

[Strewelpeter]

Why

It sounded clever
But yeah if you take sat the Wiki definition

Sexual objectification is the act of treating a person as a mere object of sexual desire. Objectification more broadly means treating a person as a commodity or an object without regard to their personality or dignity. Objectification is most commonly examined at the level of a society, but can also refer to the behavior of individuals.

Thats a pretty much open and shut case... key words being mere and commodity .
Obv there is much more to it than that and the problem is not just one for women its about how sex is used to sell everything. I mean who amongst us doesn't get a warm glow every time we see or hear of a Solar Guard product

[eamonhonda]

[Strewelpeter]

"I heard you can make a fortune working a few evenings at the White Palace, now that would be a decent way to make some €€€"

Now, the White Palace is a Gentlemans Club in St Julian's. both men and woman can go into this club, despite the name. She wants to be one of the girls who would be scantily clad and dancing.

How do I feel about it? I don't know. But I DO KNOW, it is her choice, and if she doesn't feel she is lowering herself to make some money, then fair play to her. She said she would rather that than working in Burger King frying pattys to make a pittance.

She had been discussing these things with her female friends, and this was the logic. Less hours for much more money and not coming home stinking of fat.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/ft-writer-madison-marriage-describes-groping-at-presidents-club-dinner-2018-1

[Emmet]

People in the past who stated things are 'open and shut', 'beyond debate', 'obvious to all', 'undoubted' etc who preach moral fortitude were priests mostly.

I always find it extraordinarily strange that people aren't willing to put a little bit of effort into convincing others of the merit of their great ideas, instead of simply berating others for not immediately agreeing with them. Ideas that go unchallenged go undeveloped, under utilised, become stale, become forgotten, become useless.

[Lazare]

This is such a horrendous comparison similar to HJ's Child Labour one.

The Black minstrels were white people imitating black people in order to mock them. That was inherently racist.

Women who are proud of their looks getting well paid to show them off is not hurting or offending anyone.

Are you a prude? Is sex something that should be hidden and shunned?

Basically I have a problem with people like you and HJ trying to define how people should feel. If women want to be models (and there is no distinction here, the Pit Girls/Darts girls are models.) then what gives you the right to decide it is wrong?

I assume you are pro-choice? Women should be able to choose what they do with their bodies? Why is this different?

It is baffling.

Your argument backs up the point that you missed.

[Guest]

Hector jelly and Lazare defo in the top 5 cunts in ipb throw in Mellor Ionapaul Eamon Honda in any order as we’ll discuss .

[Emmet]

Lazare @ #1 a given.

[jack90210]

F1 and Darts have made a business decision.
If the demand for darts or motorsport with walk-on-girls is still there then it will turn out to have been a terrible business decision and someone else will fill the void in the market.
Dressing it up as 'jobs taken away', or liberals saying 'you cant work at that' is a bit ott.

THats not true though. Barry Hearn stated yesterday he didn’t want to change it but was forced by the tv companies.

[Strewelpeter]

People in the past who stated things are 'open and shut', 'beyond debate', 'obvious to all', 'undoubted' etc who preach moral fortitude were priests mostly.
.

I've used open and shut to defend my saying I personally find objectification objectionable given a definition of objectification that treats people as mere sexual commodities.
Now if you want to argue why its ok to treat people as mere objects to be sexually exploited then come on with an argument for that but don't be comparing me to a fucking priest preaching moral fortitude.

[ArmaniJeans]

Hector jelly and Lazare defo in the top 5 cunts in ipb throw in Mellor Ionapaul Eamon Honda in any order as we’ll discuss .

I used to be your #1 back in the day, where did it go wrong?

[Strewelpeter]

Hector jelly and Lazare defo in the top 5 cunts in ipb throw in Mellor Ionapaul Eamon Honda in any order as we’ll discuss .

Ah hmm

[ArmaniJeans]

THats not true though. Barry Hearn stated yesterday he didn’t want to change it but was forced by the tv companies.

Eh, you've pretty much agreed with me yet started your sentence with 'thats not true'.
Darts made the business decision that whatever '+' they get from walk-on-giris wasn't enough to make up for the '-' they'd get from having to do a new raft of tv deals.

[Emmet]

I've used open and shut to defend my saying I personally find objectification objectionable given a definition of objectification that treats people as mere sexual commodities.
Now if you want to argue why its ok to treat people as mere objects to be sexually exploited then come on with an argument for that but don't be comparing me to a fucking priest preaching moral fortitude.

You are miles passed the conversation, projecting wild beliefs on people.

Let's start small.

Is there something wrong with finding people attractive?
Is there something inherently wrong about companies using the above to sell their product?
Is there something wrong with a person who wants to make use of their attractiveness to earn money?

That society has become over sexualised is not a good enough reason to flip the switch the other way imo.

[Solksjaer!]

Lazare @ #1 a given.

Deffo outside top 20. I bet though he goes to mass on the sly..juat in case.

[Solksjaer!]

Eh, you've pretty much agreed with me yet started your sentence with 'thats not true'.
Darts made the business decision that whatever '+' they get from walk-on-giris wasn't enough to make up for the '-' they'd get from having to do a new raft of tv deals.

Ah here AJ . How can you quantify an erection ?

[jack90210]

Eh, you've pretty much agreed with me yet started your sentence with 'thats not true'.
Darts made the business decision that whatever '+' they get from walk-on-giris wasn't enough to make up for the '-' they'd get from having to do a new raft of tv deals.

They were bullied by the liberal media into it.

[Strewelpeter]

That society has become over sexualised is not a good enough reason to flip the switch the other way imo.

As I said I'm not sure at all what the end game is here, this is largely about socially acceptable norms and if enough people find Walk on Girls unacceptable then they are unacceptable. This is not people writing laws to make women wear Burkas it is a commercial decision by TV companies for profit. People don't buy stuff that makes them cringe I guess.

Its political correctness gone mad, but political correctness is nothing more than codified good manners in a complex and diverse society.

Is there something inherently wrong about companies using the above to sell their product?

You already know that if I was King most advertising would be gone!

[eoghan104]

Your argument backs up the point that you missed.

OK if that is going to be your only response and you won't answer the questions that's a pity and pretty arrogant of you dude. I will just bow out.

Emmet doing a much better job than me anyway.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[Denny Crane]

This is not people writing laws to make women wear Burkas it is a commercial decision by TV companies for profit.

Are we sure about that? Seems more a political decision than commercial. I mean the BBC is in a spot of bother at the moment so maybe this is a way to try and placate people. How many dart fans were boycotting the sport over walk on girls?

I've definitely cringed when seeing UFC highlights, but banning people from jobs they've volunteered for and enjoyed seems like authoritarian paternalism masquerading as feminism.

[ArmaniJeans]

They were bullied by the liberal media into it.

Would be good if you left out the liberal/leftist buzzwords and made an actual case for what you are saying. Otherwise I don't think it merits a reply.

Anyway presumably there must be lots of articles by influential writers in what you call the 'liberal media' over the last 12 months such that both ITV4 and Sky made this decision? Links to these bullying articles?

Ultimately it's still a business decision though, if the demand from the mikebullocks/neanderthal side of the market is enough then someone else will provide the product.

[eamonhonda]

Hector jelly and Lazare defo in the top 5 cunts in ipb throw in Mellor Ionapaul Eamon Honda in any order as we’ll discuss .

It's nice to be recognised

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[Strewelpeter]

If you're uncomfortable with seeing scantily clad women having fun, it seems like the first thought should be why do you feel that way, and could it be your own moral perspective on how women should look.

There is a huge difference between consenting adults looking great and having fun and commercial sleaziness. Its those who can't differentiate those that need to take a long hard look at themselves.

[Solksjaer!]

Would be good if you left out the liberal/leftist buzzwords and made an actual case for what you are saying. Otherwise I don't think it merits a reply.

Anyway presumably there must be lots of articles by influential writers in what you call the 'liberal media' over the last 12 months such that both ITV4 and Sky made this decision? Links to these bullying articles?

Ultimately it's still a business decision though, if the demand from the mikebullocks/neanderthal side of the market is enough then someone else will provide the product.

I pretty much turn the darts off after the walk on . Best part. Then its over to the netball and sink my teeeth into a giant leg of turkey. If they stopped the groaning in the wimmins tennis id probably turn the sound off. When I grow out of this , then and only then may my epitaph be written.

[DeadParrot]

HJ's position may sound extreme, and his argument style may seem arrogant but I think he's correct.

I want my daughters to come of age in a society devoid of mysoginy, a mature truly equal society. We're lying to ourselves if we believe that exists now.

I want them to aspire to be doctors, professionals or artists.

I'd rather a world where wank fodder for greasy fat darts fans until their looks fade wasn't a career option for them.

To take it to it's extreme, dolly girls serve a no less objectifying role then the naked sushi girls.

They bring no value to the product other than eye candy, it's not an inspirational role really (pot noddle advert springs to mind, as that's the fucking joke).

Models are glorified coat hangers but sometimes (more than sometimes)the look of the model incites a sale because the buyer wants to look as good as the model. In that mind, the model actually beings value to the product , so I think that argument equating models with dollys (for want of a better word) isn't fair.

I mean no-one can look back on an old game show and think the pointers (glamour girls in revealing or barely there clothes that pointed to prizes) served any greater purpose than to give men something to look at and lust at.
Whats the difference?
Take the Mayweather-McGregor fight recently, the girls in bikinis after the fight advertising beer I think were there to look sexy nothing more. The fact that it turned so creepy as their rictus like smiles stayed in place for so fucking long it ruined the illusion only highlights how they are perceived by their employers and indeed how the employers see us the consumer .

This is all a bit rambling so I['ll stop for now as alt+tabbing means I'm losing my train of thought..

[ArmaniJeans]

Also whilst no-one in Sky/ITV4, the PDC or Barry Hearn will admit it, those of us who watch the darts will have seen a more likely reason for losing the walk-on-girls.

There were two occasions last year where they were assaulted (tits grabbed) by fans during the walk-on. This looked poor on live tv, and was going to end up with terrible publicity if it went to a court case, and there's likely been some hush money paid to prevent that happening already.

Stopping it now whilst it can be blamed on the liberal media is a win-win.

[Strewelpeter]

Are we sure about that? Seems more a political decision than commercial. I mean the BBC is in a spot of bother at the moment so maybe this is a way to try and placate people. How many dart fans were boycotting the sport over walk on girls?

I've definitely cringed when seeing UFC highlights, but banning people from jobs they've volunteered for and enjoyed seems like authoritarian paternalism masquerading as feminism.

I think the general trend is towards commercial organisations recognising that their interests are served by offending the fewest they can, So if you are right and it is authoritarian paternalism then we are on a slippery slope towards a dull grey mediocrity, or maybe its not and it is just a matter of respecting everyone equally.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[Solksjaer!]

I may be a Neanderthal but i draw the line at groping wimmin, especially thoze who festoon the dreariest of sports . E.g. Darts/F1. People who do this deserve to lose a testicle.

[Denny Crane]

I think the general trend is towards commercial organisations recognising that their interests are served by offending the fewest they can, So if you are right and it is authoritarian paternalism then we are on a slippery slope towards a dull grey mediocrity, or maybe its not and it is just a matter of respecting everyone equally.

The Dictatorship of the Small Minority. Class.

[Emmet]

Given that offense is taken, not always offered, how on earth is that ideal supposed to do anything but paralyse society?

There will always be someone who can claim that any action, thought or idea is offensive.

Are they really the people that we should be looking to for moderation and censorship going forward?

[DeadParrot]

Given that offense is taken, not always offered, how on earth is that ideal supposed to do anything but paralyse society?

There will always be someone who can claim that any action, thought or idea is offensive.

Are they really the people that we should be looking to for moderation and censorship going forward?

[mocata]

Rachel Riley squares a lot of these circles for me As did Carol Vordermann before her, long successful career built on her intelligence and personality, Oh also won "Rear of the Year"

[Keane]

Realistically the twitter loons are not deciding or moderating anything, and the first interaction they have with serious money making/costing issues and big business will disabuse them of the notion good and quick.

Dolly girls on darts/F1 serve essentially no purpose - no one would give a fiddler's fart if they disappeared unless you could squeeze some online argument out of it, so it's an easy one for the companies involved to pretend they're being bullied so they can get a bit of support from their core markets.

If, for some reason, the dolly girls were worth 20 million a year to F1 the chances they would bow to this 'pressure' are zero and the dopes who spend their lives being hysterical on twitter would be told to fuck right off.

Incidentally, this pressure I just mentioned - I have seen none of it. Have never seen a tweet or read an article calling for walk on girls to not be there. Makes AJ's guess that this is all smoke and mirrors to avoid a big lawsuit pretty convincing - incidentally reinforcing the notion that money is the ultimate driver here.

[Dice75]

People in the past who stated things are 'open and shut', 'beyond debate', 'obvious to all', 'undoubted' etc who preach moral fortitude were priests mostly.

I always find it extraordinarily strange that people aren't willing to put a little bit of effort into convincing others of the merit of their great ideas, instead of simply berating others for not immediately agreeing with them. Ideas that go unchallenged go undeveloped, under utilised, become stale, become forgotten, become useless.

[DeadParrot]

Given that offense is taken, not always offered, how on earth is that ideal supposed to do anything but paralyse society?

There will always be someone who can claim that any action, thought or idea is offensive.

Are they really the people that we should be looking to for moderation and censorship going forward?

I guess the real question is do you think or desire that society stays static in this regard?
Why?

[DeadParrot]

17

[Hooch]

Thoughts on Rachel Riley on countdown then lads surely her dresses must disgust some of you??

[Guest]

A stint managing women in the service industry and dealing with the shit they have to put up with from the types of guys who think darts walk on girls are harmless would do some of you the world of good!



*swearing removed for Dom

[Strewelpeter]

The Dictatorship of the Small Minority. Class.

Given that offense is taken, not always offered, how on earth is that ideal supposed to do anything but paralyse society?

There will always be someone who can claim that any action, thought or idea is offensive.

Are they really the people that we should be looking to for moderation and censorship going forward?

These are good questions but I doubt a dictatorship of mediocrity is a real threat, seriously who is being oppressed here?

Thoughts on Rachel Riley on countdown then lads surely her dresses must disgust some of you??

This is not a good question, this is not about in anyway about prudishness, victorian values or whatever, its just about respect.

[CHDad]

Hector jelly and Lazare defo in the top 5 cunts in ipb throw in Mellor Ionapaul Eamon Honda in any order as we’ll discuss .

Wat

[Denny Crane]

seriously who is being oppressed here?

[ionapaul]

Wat

Probably the only top 5 list of posters on IPB I'll ever make it into

[jack90210]

Liberalism so quickly involving into conservativism mad.

[Hectorjelly]

If you're uncomfortable with seeing scantily clad women having fun, it seems like the first thought should be why do you feel that way, and could it be your own moral perspective on how women should look. A lot of the feminists agitating for these types of changes do tend to be (and I hate to go there, but go there I must) middle-aged frumpy grumps. I wonder the extent to which they represent the people they claim to be representing.

Jesus hitch, this is like something Jack would post. This is a really embarrassing argument.

[Lazare]

OK if that is going to be your only response and you won't answer the questions that's a pity and pretty arrogant of you dude. I will just bow out.

Emmet doing a much better job than me anyway.

Your aggressive and angry argument style doesn't lend itself well to back and forth debate Eoghan. Not just in this instance, you regularly argue that way.
You missed my point in your first paragraph while backing it up.
You then asked me a ridiculous passive aggressive question, 'Are you a prude?'. Again not really getting any point at all.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[Lazare]

Probably the only top 5 list of posters on IPB I'll ever make it into

I made it into two top fives in one week.

[Hectorjelly]

It is close to precisely the same thing. Handsome people, of every gender are used to showcase various things, clothes, events whatever. Attractive people help sell an idea or a product. So what.

You are conflating two distinct things. Handsome people selling things is not the same as a job made specifically for one gender that uses sex to glamourise something.

[Hectorjelly]

Those things aren't even close to equivalent. Likening models who choose to do something to child abuse? Really?

Just because Jack thinks something doesn't automatically make it wrong, even if I do disagree with him on a lot of things.

You made this post:
"Admirable on the face of it, but removing the option of doing something is never that progressive imo"

And I gave you a list of things where removing the option to do something actually is progressive.

Those things aren't equivalent but they prove your sentence to be incorrect. Perhaps you might want to refine it further somehow?

[Emmet]

You are conflating two distinct things. Handsome people selling things is not the same as a job made specifically for one gender that uses sex to glamourise something.

What is wrong with using sex to glamorise things?

Serious question.

[Solksjaer!]

What is respect anyway ? Some of the old poker advice on the boards was downright insulting . Words like tard were regularly used.
It's seems somewhat ironic we all have to be uber respectful , when the use of the word is so selective, especially from the self same people.

GTFO

[Solksjaer!]

I see 8 sets of boobies all with inverted nipples .

More please

[elbows]

A stint managing women in the service industry and dealing with the shit they have to put up with from the types of guys who think darts walk on girls are harmless would do some of you the world of good!



*swearing removed for Dom

I 2nd that. Some of the stuff that goes on is unbelievable

[jack90210]

Canada the PC capital of the world has changed its national anthem to make it gender neutral. Nothing is scared.