Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - Mammy told me not to come.

[ArmaniJeans]

Obvs.

Well done on your pedantry though. Go high five all your friends.

I don't think its pedantry really.
Using the terms 'pro-aborts' rather than 'pro-choicers' is a definite tactic of some on the non-repeal side of the debate.
And the repeal side have tried to get 'anti-choice' rather than 'pro-life' to be used to dismiss their opponents.

[Keane]

Obvs.

Well done on your pedantry though. Go high five all your friends.

Jesus, I didn't mean to rustle your jimmies.

You literally said 'I don't think most people are anti-abortion'. I think that statement is 100% incorrect. I think it is a fairly important point.

There are zero women sitting around today planning to get pregnant in order to get an abortion. Everyone is anti-abortion.

[6starpool]

Nobody is pro-abortion.

I'd maybe flip the words and say very few people are pro-abortion, in that they don't think abortion is something to be cheered. But are still pro-choice.

Edit : As said above by Keane.

Ya this is more my point, that very few people are totally blasé and casual about it.

[Denny Crane]

Nobody is pro-abortion.

I do remember seeing a photo from one of the recent marches with a poster with "I had an abortion and I'm proud of it"

[Keane]

I do remember seeing a photo from one of the recent marches with a poster with "I had an abortion and I'm proud of it"

Presumably there's a story there that is nuanced and doesn't fit on a placard. A stupid poster though.

Could also be Youth Defence.

[jack90210]

Is it proposed that abortion without a reason will be funded from public funds?

[poprock]

. Everyone is anti-abortion.

I wouldn't say everyone is.

[jack90210]

Nobody is pro-abortion.

I don't think that is true https://www.salon.com/2015/04/24/i_a...nd_the_choice/

[Denny Crane]

Is it proposed that abortion without a reason will be funded from public funds?

This is a poor attempt. Were the kitesurfers who went out during the storm charged for the cost to the rescue services?

[jack90210]

This is a poor attempt. Were the kitesurfers who went out during the storm charged for the cost to the rescue services?

It's a honest question, I haven't heard it answered yet.

And I don't know if they were but they should have been, I know the fire brigade does charge for their services.

[Denny Crane]

It's a honest question, I haven't heard it answered yet.

And I don't know if they were but they should have been, I know the fire brigade does charge for their services.

Just gives a bad impression of your worldview if it's only pregnant women that should have to pay for a medical service caused by their own agency.

[jack90210]

Just gives a bad impression of your worldview if it's only pregnant women that should have to pay for a medical service caused by their own agency.

I asked a question, I didn't express an opinion.

[Raoul Duke III]

I got given an Amazon voucher for £300.

Any suitably frivolous recommendation for blowing this loot?

[RichieM]

I got given an Amazon voucher for £300.

Any suitably frivolous recommendation for blowing this loot?

whiskey

[eoghan104]

I got given an Amazon voucher for £300.

Any suitably frivolous recommendation for blowing this loot?

Crypto.

[Guest]

Gonna be a long few months for those of us that dgaf. Actually maybe I'm the only one.

[eoghan104]

Ok so enough people genuinely thought I meant people are pro abortion rather than pro choice?

Cool.

#jimmiesrustled

[mocata]

I got given an Amazon voucher for £300.

Any suitably frivolous recommendation for blowing this loot?

Sony 1000 xm2 or Bose QC35 bluetooth noise cancelling headphones. A whole new universe has been revealed to me last few months, looks just like old one but with better soundtrack and less gobshites

[eamonhonda]

I got given an Amazon voucher for £300.

Any suitably frivolous recommendation for blowing this loot?

Projector in time for the six nations

[eamonhonda]

Is it proposed that abortion without a reason will be funded from public funds?

Hopefully

[ComradeCollie]

I got given an Amazon voucher for £300.

Any suitably frivolous recommendation for blowing this loot?

Audio Technica ATLP120. Get your retro vinyl buzz started.

[eamonhonda]

'Public transport is cool': new Adidas trainers double as Berlin transit passes

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/jan/16/adidas-eqt-trainers-transport-tickets-berlin?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Interesting, before they even have a decent tap on tap off travel card.

@hitch, with your argument about entitlement to a refund if your phone doesn't last the length of your phone contract, would you think you'd be entitled to a refund if these runners fell apart before year end after wearing them all day everyday?

[eamonhonda]

I asked a question, I didn't express an opinion.

An algorithm will be able to post for you soon. You can sit back and focus fully on hate.

[Keane]

I don't think that is true https://www.salon.com/2015/04/24/i_a...nd_the_choice/

I think we're talking at crossed purposes.

I didn't read the whole thing admittedly - does she advocate getting pregnant and having an abortion as preferable to not getting pregnant?

Ok so enough people genuinely thought I meant people are pro abortion rather than pro choice?

Cool.

#jimmiesrustled

I didn't mean to come off snarky or glib, apologies if I did. I do think the distinction is important because there do honestly seem to be people out there who think the country is full of slappers who don't give a shite if they get pregnant because spooning it out is so easy. It's a delicate topic - people are and have been directly affected by this so it's worth getting our terms right IMO.

[Mellor]

I asked a question, I didn't express an opinion.

Sure you did.
Just like the downs syndrome comment was just random trivia.

[eamonhonda]

I think we're talking at crossed purposes.

I didn't read the whole thing admittedly - does she advocate getting pregnant and having an abortion as preferable to not getting pregnant?



I didn't mean to come off snarky or glib, apologies if I did. I do think the distinction is important because there do honestly seem to be people out there who think the country is full of slappers who don't give a shite if they get pregnant because spooning it out is so easy. It's a delicate topic - people are and have been directly affected by this so it's worth getting our terms right IMO.

Definitely, this thought that abortion is gonna become a legitimate form of contraception for people is a bit ridiculous. And if there is people like that it's for the greater good that they dont raise a child, I'll happily donate my tax euros to that

[Strewelpeter]

I got given an Amazon voucher for £300.

Any suitably frivolous recommendation for blowing this loot?

https://www.amazon.com/Mauviel-France-MHeritage-6502-21-1-9-Quart/dp/B0002L5FQG

[6starpool]

https://www.amazon.com/Mauviel-Franc.../dp/B0002L5FQG

Look up frivolous in the dictionary there is a link to that.

[DeadParrot]

Look up frivolous in the dictionary there is a link to that.

even better if you use the UK link

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mauviel-France-MHeritage-6502-21-1-9-Quart/dp/B0002L5FQG

[Emmet]

I asked a question, I didn't express an opinion.

Classic.

The socratic method is it?

[Emmet]

Are people who support the use of amputation in extreme circumstances pro amputation?

[The Situation]

There's a wasp flying around in the snooker and Murphy is absolutely crapping himself every time it comes near him

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[Strewelpeter]

The actor Peter Wyngarde died this week, looking back at his life and career opens up some wonderfully bizarre corners of the 70's that perhaps Collie amongst others might enjoy.

Cinema blogger and fan Neil Young has lots of links including this Russell Harty interview

A few quotes from the Guardian obit

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2018/jan/18/peter-wyngarde-obituary

A reputable actor, whose television roles had brought an intriguing hint of decadence, had come to believe his own publicity...

In 1975, he was found guilty of gross indecency in a bus station toilet.

Five years later a tabloid newspaper reported that he was out of work, and “the mop of hair – thinning now – was covered with a flat cap … and he used a tie to hold up his trousers”.

Wyngarde claimed he had been born in Marseille – though despite evidence pointing to Singapore – and that his French mother, who appears to have been called Marcheritta (nee Ahin), was a racing driver.

His father, who may have been Henry Goldbert, though Peter claimed he was a British diplomat named Wyngarde,
...
Wyngarde claimed to have read law at Oxford, but there is no record of him having studied there in the postwar years. His first acting credit was as a policeman at the Buxton Playhouse in May 1946, making nonsense of the 1933 birth date he claimed.

[jack90210]

Other questions than haven't been answered to my knowledge: will there be a mandatory waiting period, will there be parental notification, will there be mandatory/optional counselling, will there be mandatory/optional ultrasound display?

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[jack90210]

12 weeks makes a lot of sense. I do get quite squeamish about the UK allowing abortions for any reason up to 24 weeks, given it is undeniably a person at some point in the second trimester. I wouldn't protest against extending it to 24 weeks, but would feel it was wrong. Up to the end of the first trimester though is a non issue. It's an indecipherable blob at 12 weeks. It may turn into a beautiful person, but it's just a blob at that stage, and there's no shortage of cum and eggs to make more blobs.

It's really not though just a blob.

[Emmet]

Other questions than haven't been answered to my knowledge: will there be a mandatory waiting period, will there be parental notification, will there be mandatory/optional counselling, will there be mandatory/optional ultrasound display?

Will all be up to the Dail to legislate on.

Why would there be a mandatory ultrasound?

[eoghan104]

I'm starting to regret going to bat for Jack a little.

[6starpool]

Other questions than haven't been answered to my knowledge: will there be a mandatory waiting period, will there be parental notification, will there be mandatory/optional counselling, will there be mandatory/optional ultrasound display?

I'm pretty sure no actual proposals are out there yet, the framing of the question in the referendum isn't even known.

Your last question in particular is preposterous. Why would there be mandatory ultrasound? Just so a priest can point out the murder victim?

[Tar.Aldarion]

How would investing for somebody else work taxwise? Seems like a mess. I mean even them transferring me money is a grey area to me.

[jack90210]

I'm pretty sure no actual proposals are out there yet, the framing of the question in the referendum isn't even known.

Your last question in particular is preposterous. Why would there be mandatory ultrasound? Just so a priest can point out the murder victim?

It is part of the procedure in some States in the USA. I didn't say I agreed with any of those procedures but I won't be deciding on how I vote until all the information is available.

[Emmet]

It is part of the procedure in some States in the USA. I didn't say I agreed with any of those procedures but I won't be deciding on how I vote until all the information is available.

The vote will be on whether or not to remove it from the constitution.

Not on what will be replacing it in legislation.

If the amendment is deleted, the Dail will decide the legislation regarding how or how not things are permitted to work.

So you will be waiting until after a referendum to make up your mind if you are deciding after the information is available.

[ArmaniJeans]

It is part of the procedure in some States in the USA. I didn't say I agreed with any of those procedures but I won't be deciding on how I vote until all the information is available.

I think we know your vote jack.

[Kayroo]

Other questions than haven't been answered to my knowledge: will there be a mandatory waiting period, will there be parental notification, will there be mandatory/optional counselling, will there be mandatory/optional ultrasound display?

This referendum isn't about that. Actually your questions are an excellent way of demonstrating why the 8th Amendment needs to be repealed. Ideally it should be replaced with an enabling provision as suggested by David Kenny and Fiona DeLondras to the Oireachtas Committee.

You cannot legislate in a constitution. It's not practical or even remotely workable. Let the Oireachtas decide the details and put it into legislation. Then all of your questions can be posed to the chamber and debated, answered and decided upon.

Politically it might help to have a draft bill before the referendum to give some idea to people what is envisaged but in reality the bill could be changed or altered before passage anyway so it would be little more than a guide for the debate. In reality this amendment is probably slightly more likely than not to pass.

I don't quite get why those against the 8th being repealed are so concerned. At the moment the 8th mandates abortion must be allowed in the State. The propose enabling provision would do more than make the issue of abortion solely one for the Oireachtas. What happens then is up to your democratically elected representatives.

[Keane]

This referendum isn't about that. Actually your questions are an excellent way of demonstrating why the 8th Amendment needs to be repealed. Ideally it should be replaced with an enabling provision as suggested by David Kenny and Fiona DeLondras to the Oireachtas Committee.

You cannot legislate in a constitution. It's not practical or even remotely workable. Let the Oireachtas decide the details and put it into legislation. Then all of your questions can be posed to the chamber and debated, answered and decided upon.

Politically it might help to have a draft bill before the referendum to give some idea to people what is envisaged but in reality the bill could be changed or altered before passage anyway so it would be little more than a guide for the debate. In reality this amendment is probably slightly more likely than not to pass.

I don't quite get why those against the 8th being repealed are so concerned. At the moment the 8th mandates abortion must be allowed in the State. The propose enabling provision would do more than make the issue of abortion solely one for the Oireachtas. What happens then is up to your democratically elected representatives.

Cliffs on enabling proposal?

[Kayroo]

Cliffs on enabling proposal?

State that the Oireachtas has exclusive power to legislate for abortion and the judicial branch of government shall have no power to invalidate any law made regarding abortion by reference to any other constitutional right.

This would effectively immunise any abortion laws, whether they be to allow for it or to ban it, from being challenged in the courts. It is, effectively, what the Citizens' Assembly recommended. There are laws immune from judicial consideration as it stands but the acceptance of carving out categories of laws from being subject to judicial oversight is a little troubling to me, albeit I appear to be in a minority even within my own profession in that regard.

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[DeadParrot]

It is part of the procedure in some States in the USA. I didn't say I agreed with any of those procedures but I won't be deciding on how I vote until all the information is available.

is a mandatory ultrasound a factor in deciding which way you will vote here?

Is there a realistic scenario whether you have will vote to repeal as long as there is mandatory scan?
Will you vote not to repeal if there is one?
Ditto if it reversed?
If someone HAS to get a scan before termination will you say, oh no, I want drive through abortions or no abortions at all?

Apart from needless histrionics, what actually is the plan for this line of questioning?

[V for Vendetta]

Funking for some renegade economist to come out with a report on the benefits to the economy of performing terminations locally rather than spending all that cash in the UK.

Wasn’t there a good study done in the states on the link between pro rata crime statistics falling and the correlation with the wider availabilty of abortions?

[DeadParrot]

Wasn’t there a good study done in the states on the link between pro rata crime statistics falling and the correlation with the wider availabilty of abortions?

freakanomics I believe

[V for Vendetta]

Other questions than haven't been answered to my knowledge: will there be a mandatory waiting period, will there be parental notification, will there be mandatory/optional counselling, will there be mandatory/optional ultrasound display?

Will all be up to the Dail to legislate on.

Why would there be a mandatory ultrasound?

Future employment opportunity for Jack. Forcing pregnant ladies to confront what they might be considering doing.

[V for Vendetta]

freakanomics I believe

Yes it was mentioned in the book but there was an underlying study I thought.

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[hotspur]

An algorithm will be able to post for you soon. You can sit back and focus fully on hate.

Other questions than haven't been answered to my knowledge: will there be a mandatory waiting period, will there be parental notification, will there be mandatory/optional counselling, will there be mandatory/optional ultrasound display?

Technology proceeds at some pace these days!

[MrsFlushdraw]

Musical/Ice skating interlude between your abortion chat!
For those not on FB. This is spectacular!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKkVETYgTfs

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[Ed]

There's definitely a significant group of ardent pro-choicers that need to be kept in the background if they're not to scare off potential swing voters. Big success of marriage equality referendum was the inclusive nature of it, but there's some of the pro-choice that seem to be approaching it as 'this is a women's issue, so men better do what they want'. It's quite alienating, and the opposite of what's needed to win this type of nuanced referendum where people recognise that abortion is a rather horrible idea, but also a necessary service to have.

That's par for the course with most debates now. Each side points at the fringe assholes from the other side as examples of what everyone on a particular side is like and the ones who shout loudest glory in the attention they get. Why give a voice to a moderate sensible person from a given side when you get better ratings by letting some maladjusted mental midget prattle on