Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - Mammy told me not to come.

[Guest]

Not long out of a school meeting re confirmation , mental health , healthy eating among other stuff.
Principle a cool dude said confirmation is not mandatory and is between a child and their parents . so came home had a chat . she was due to get confirmation in Feb.
we had chat and decided we are going to celebrate an Atheist day , shes not going ahead with it. Heading off shopping and a dinner while the rest pray, Bouncy disco castle still goes ahead . and heres to her going foward in her adult life knowing em there is no God!

Told her best thing in life be positive , be nice and religion is a load of shite! She agreed .
I love the way she just doesnt give a shite about what others do . Her own person and hope she always stays that way.

no more religion in this house!

Surely the correct play is to let them just go through the charade and collect all the sweet Confo money from extended family.atheists need to invent a day where you get envelopes of cash for fuck all

[ComradeCollie]

Think you might be onto something there,he was mad to ban E cigs,even though they are clearly far less harmful

In fairness to Strewelly he wasn't alone in this. Ecigs are still banned in all hospital campuses here, and the likes of UCD. And yeah outdoors too.

[SatNav]

Surely the correct play is to let them just go through the charade and collect all the sweet Confo money from extended family.atheists need to invent a day where you get envelopes of cash for fuck all

she not bothered ,she needs new laptop and we were planning to get her one for her confirmation . I am still getting her one. all she seemed to care about was this disco bouncy castle yolk. actually looking forward to that myself

[Guest]

In fairness to Strewelly he wasn't alone in this. Ecigs are still banned in all hospital campuses here, and the likes of UCD. And yeah outdoors too.

But they look even cooler than smoking cigs.and that’s a pretty high coolness bar

[ComradeCollie]

But they look even cooler than smoking cigs.and that’s a pretty high coolness bar

Nah

[ArmaniJeans]

Why is it very hard to enforce? Why can't the bookmaker can't just withhold 40% of the winnings on behalf of the revenue.

Reasons I gave earlier, the industry can move abroad within the EU and tax treaties would apply.

Some portion of business would remain obviously as there is an amount of cash-only punters who like b&m shops. At 40% tax (or even 20% tax) the industry would be fucked. The bookie needs the person who 'gets up a yankee' on the first 4 races of the day to spend the rest of the day dribbling it back over the counter. If 40% of winnings are immediately locked away for the government then the bookmaker economics are destroyed. Its not in the governments interests to do this to any industry.

[Strewelpeter]

Why do you want to take money out of poor people's pockets for the gain of large retailers when the science shows it won't change their habit?

Suspect you really just want this out of some puritan urge to punish people that drink alcohol rather than any logical reason.

I have no interest in punishing anyone or in preventing people from doing whatever it takes for them to enjoy themselves or just make it through the day but I don't want to pay for their choices or be deprived of healthcare as a result of their choices.
The reason I support the bill is simply that every single person involved in dealing with the harm reduction want to try it. That is good enough reason to give it a spin IMO.

I have no clue about the economics of why its not implemented as a straight tax but as the biggest chunk of the unit price is excise I'm sure the revenue know what they are doing.

[ArmaniJeans]

I have no clue about the economics of why its not implemented as a straight tax but as the biggest chunk of the unit price is excise I'm sure the revenue know what they are doing.

Will this be a new Strewelpeter attitude going forward - when a government office or someone in a position of authority makes a decision that you don't fundamentally understand then you'll choose to accept it as correct as they appear to be knowledgable people.

[Strewelpeter]

Will this be a new Strewelpeter attitude going forward - when a government office or someone in a position of authority makes a decision that you don't fundamentally understand then you'll choose to accept it as correct as they appear to be knowledgable people.

It's not coming from government it's coming from medical professionals who are dealing with the consequences of almost free booze.

I do fully understand why those health professionals want to do this.
The bit i don't understand why they structured the pricing model the way they did but listening to the hysterical reaction from lads who are going to lose a few quid a month I can well imagine how it would have gone down if they'd increased excise by a blanket percentage to get the same results.

[Dice75]

Reasons I gave earlier, the industry can move abroad within the EU and tax treaties would apply.

Some portion of business would remain obviously as there is an amount of cash-only punters who like b&m shops. At 40% tax (or even 20% tax) the industry would be fucked. The bookie needs the person who 'gets up a yankee' on the first 4 races of the day to spend the rest of the day dribbling it back over the counter. If 40% of winnings are immediately locked away for the government then the bookmaker economics are destroyed. Its not in the governments interests to do this to any industry.

Plus if a punter dumps a monkey and then get a hundred bet up to three fiddy and has to give 40% of that back the drain would be circled pretty quick.

[Mellor]

There was another fundamental problem which is highlighted by this conversation: What level of analysis is appropriate for making our conclusions about the world? If you take it at the highest possible level: gay marriage won the vote, then it would be reasonable to conclude that Australia is a great place and totally down with the gays. But then you break it down further, and note that 38% of the electorate voted against it, and 28% didn’t vote, so who knows what they think? But then you break it down even further, and note that people who live in certain areas were more likely to vote no, and this tells you even more about it.

That's a fair point. When you consider the no votes its roughly 50 Yes v 30 No v 20 (no vote). You have to assume that the 30% mostly don't care if they didn't bother to vote.

Whether that will help us decide if it's okay to have a go at the Aborigines for being homophobic, or if it's still too soon to be "not racist" is less clear. We would have to input values for whether racism or homophobia is currently the worse cultural crime.

It's considered improper to use "Aborigines" (the noun) by some. Others are fine with it.
People complicated

[KevIRL]

Not long out of a school meeting re confirmation , mental health , healthy eating among other stuff.
Principle a cool dude said confirmation is not mandatory and is between a child and their parents . so came home had a chat . she was due to get confirmation in Feb.
we had chat and decided we are going to celebrate an Atheist day , shes not going ahead with it. Heading off shopping and a dinner while the rest pray, Bouncy disco castle still goes ahead . and heres to her going foward in her adult life knowing em there is no God!

Told her best thing in life be positive , be nice and religion is a load of shite! She agreed .
I love the way she just doesnt give a shite about what others do . Her own person and hope she always stays that way.

no more religion in this house!

Will pray for you all on Sunday.

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[Lazare]

Bravo Mia, little miss Sunshine.

[Guest]

I was at a work related wedding last week and the amount of scientists going up for communion amazed me.

[Denny Crane]

I presume Scotland's health authorities are also in on the conspiracy and that's why they're introducing minimum pricing on alcohol too.

Plus this recent article reviewing all prior minimum alcohol studies in the British Medical Journal is also part of the scam.

As one Scottish Twitter user pointed out yesterday, “People with problems will get what the need even meaning cutting out necessities to do so.”

The empirical evidence supports this. This 1995 paper found that the heaviest drinkers’ responsiveness to price changes was statistically indistinguishable from zero, though it was based on very old data from the 1980s. This more recent one found that hazardous and harmful drinkers (people who consume more than 17.5 units per week) had a very low response to price changes. And this 2013 review of 19 studies found only two that found a significant and substantial reduction in drinking rates in response to alcohol price rises – “and even these two showed mixed results”.

This 2016 PhD thesis, by Dr Robert Pryce, found that heavy drinkers’ price elasticity of demand was only barely distinguishable from zero, and concluded that:

the quantity results show that price-based measures will have little effect in reducing heavy consumption because of their small absolute price elasticity, whilst simultaneously having a large negative effect on consumer surplus for the light drinking majority, because of their large absolute price elasticity

Not only do the advocates of minimum pricing ignore this, their most-used model (the ‘Sheffield Alcohol Policy Model’) assumes that heavy drinkers have the highest responsiveness to price changes of all types of drinkers.

This was pointed out by John C. Duffy, a leading health statistician, in a 2012 report for the ASI that he coauthored with Christopher Snowdon. Duffy is scathing about this model in general, describing it as “resorting to numerology” when desired data was not available. He shows that the assumption about heavy drinkers’ elasticity is extremely shaky, and crucial to the health claims about the policy.

It comes from the fact that heavy drinkers are the most price sensitive to price rises for a single brand or type of drink – ie, heavy drinkers are the most likely group to switch from drinking wine if the price of wine rises, or Fosters if the price of Fosters rises.

But this does not show that their overall alcohol consumption falls, just their consumption of that type of drink. And does not imply that a general rise in alcohol prices will cause heavy drinkers to cut their alcohol consumption down – the evidence above suggests otherwise. That evidence shows that heavy drinkers are the least sensitive to price rises of alcohol overall. They are just the most willing to switch between types of alcohol when relative prices change. It’s extremely weird that the Sheffield Alcohol Policy Model interprets the data in this counterintuitive and contrarian way.

This assumption is the basis for minimum pricing advocates’ claims about health benefits from their policy, along with poorly identified and statistically sloppy studies of the effects of minimum pricing in British Columbia, Canada.

As Chris Snowdon points out the most commonly cited study did not include any control group, allowing it to attribute a fall in crime in British Columbia to minimum pricing even though the rest of the country, which had no minimum pricing, and indeed most of the developed world also saw reductions in these things. The UK, so far free of minimum pricing, saw a greater fall in crime over the same period.

As well as that, it extrapolates wildly from tiny, noisy changes in alcohol-attributable death rates to make big claims that simply do not make sense. A 1% rise in the price of alcohol taking place alongside a 3% fall in alcohol-attributable deaths is not established to be causal, and even worse, is multiplied by ten to produce a Daily Mail-friendly headline that a 10% rise in price would cut alcohol deaths by 30%. It’s 'evidence' in name only.

.

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[Raoul Duke III]

I find it hard to tell whether you are trolling yourself by accident at times or if you're working on some sort of 4D chess self-parody as an art form.

Either way these sorts of posts are typically an indication that you have gotten out of your element and are looking to set yourself up for some sort of 'I woz only winding ye up' post with the sunglasses smiley because you think you might need it later on.

You can feel the bitterness of all those cups of tea that office junior Keane was forced to make sadistic middle manager SP in this post.

[Raoul Duke III]

Mad we're in a situation where the Irish guy elected based on his father's surname is the well-respected, competent, and (I think) likeable foreign minister. While the representative of the British empire is an idiot of the highest order.

But he's a man of the people! He has the common touch!

(Of one who went to Eton and Oxford obvs)

[Raoul Duke III]

Basically Brexit and Trump come down to the unwillingness of people to admit mistakes. Especially on the internet.

[6starpool]

I was at a work related wedding last week and the amount of scientists going up for communion amazed me.

It's just automatic for lots of people whenever they find themselves in a church.

[Keane]

Reasons I gave earlier, the industry can move abroad within the EU and tax treaties would apply.

Some portion of business would remain obviously as there is an amount of cash-only punters who like b&m shops. At 40% tax (or even 20% tax) the industry would be fucked. The bookie needs the person who 'gets up a yankee' on the first 4 races of the day to spend the rest of the day dribbling it back over the counter. If 40% of winnings are immediately locked away for the government then the bookmaker economics are destroyed. Its not in the governments interests to do this to any industry.

That's not hard to enforce then that's just a tax loss if bookies move to Malta on one hand and a profit loss for the bookies (as people stop betting) on the other.

If we want to curtail people betting for their own good and so they don't burden the health service with their addiction issues we want to wean ourselves off the bookies tax anyway.

Why should I give a toss that the bookies need some poor degenerate to think he can win

[Dice75]

It's just automatic for lots of people whenever they find themselves in a church.

Soakage for the night ahead obv

[jack90210]

Interesting quotes in the Irish Times from C&C "we don't see any commercial disadvantage at C&C to minimum pricing."

[Strewelpeter]

.As one Scottish Twitter user pointed out yesterday, “People with problems will get what the need even meaning cutting out necessities to do so.”

Argumentum ad verecundiam at its finest

A Scottish, no less, twitter user v The Lancet and a truckload of peer review studies

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[eamonhonda]

Argumentum ad verecundiam at its finest

A Scottish, no less, twitter user v The Lancet and a truckload of peer review studies

Are you discriminating against Scottish people or Twitter users? A disgrace either way in my opinion

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[jack90210]

Can't remember if I read it here or somewhere else, but thats a mad trend that EA games is trying to introduce into gaming. My loose understanding is they tried to sell a Star Wars game for a hefty €70 and then have extra charges within the game to e.g. unlock Darth Vadar. wtf were they thinking.

I'm not a big gamer but I think that's standard enough practice now. Some games can have extra fees running into thousands.

[Mellor]

Can't remember if I read it here or somewhere else, but thats a mad trend that EA games is trying to introduce into gaming. My loose understanding is they tried to sell a Star Wars game for a hefty €70 and then have extra charges within the game to e.g. unlock Darth Vadar. wtf were they thinking.

I might be missing something. But isn't that just paid downloadable content (DLC)? That's been around for over a decade and it pretty successful income stream.

[Tar.Aldarion]

Its in no way certain that it is Tesla that will win the electric vehicle battle, but this truck looks like the business if the cost per mile claims work out. Once commercial vehicles become financially viable on electric, oil is dead. Now just to make them self-driving.

Denny hat engaged: He's just a crook and it's vapourware, it will never deliver on time and the company is failing. It's a diversion to get money to fund his failing model 3 production. Other companies are legit and better, he's just a conman! I'm pretty sure he eats children.

Can't remember if I read it here or somewhere else, but thats a mad trend that EA games is trying to introduce into gaming. My loose understanding is they tried to sell a Star Wars game for a hefty €70 and then have extra charges within the game to e.g. unlock Darth Vadar. wtf were they thinking.

The problem here was EA said you can do it for free also by playing the game and they did it for a sense of accomplishment. That's fine, it's great in games. However it took 40 hours play to unlock each character, and that's if you don't use the credits you earn on the other things in the game. Realistically they made it impossible to do and encouraged people to just give them tons of money instead, nothing like paying for that sense of accomplishment.



Also weekly bitcoin news, it broke 8000 during the night.

[Tar.Aldarion]

There was this terrible post on reddit which has spawned great piss takes.

[Guest]

Quick Google so unsure if revenues are accurate but seems credible given it quotes CFO but Fifa Ultimate Team is worth 800m in revenues to EA which seems ridiculous as simply an add on feature to a game.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2017-03-01-eas-ultimate-team-now-worth-USD800-million-annually

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[Denny Crane]

I give you a 2017 British Medical Journal article that reviews all reliable past studies that meet criteria for proper studies without bias, and you respond with "as one Scottish twitter user said", a PhD thesis, and a report.

Why does the former class the Canadian study as statically significant without referencing its limitations?

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[KevIRL]

Actually I was thinking of dipping my toes into a computer game. Maybe a civilisation style game. See Age of Empires II is available from Steam for €20 - would that be a great game of the genre? Or is there some other fantastic example of modern (single-player) gaming thats worth it as a first game if you haven't played in about 10 years? Like a game where you play it and think 'wow, gaming is now amazing'. Was always a fan of those games like Railway Tycoon where you need to build a business empire in some obscure occupation.

Championship manager 2001/02 still the best.

[Denny Crane]

Thats not how meta-analysis articles work. You select articles that meet minimum criteria for research quality and then extract an overall trend across the studies. That allows for weaknesses to be present in individual studies, but still be taken account of.

BMJ is normally very stringent, so I'd be far more inclined to trust an article they've published than not.

They quote the results of the study as part of their conclusion though?

You made the same appeals to authority for the Sheffield study but that has its weaknesses too?

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[ionapaul]

Its entirely possible I'm just not aware of modern trends in gaming. But whatever the company did they've reconsidered it, so presumably there was something perceived wrong with it. Seems reasonable that if you are paying that much for a game that it is fully playable, or is that old school thinking?

EA have only rowed back on it (somewhat) due to the extremely negative reaction, all of those types of games will still include loot boxes/pay to win mechanics in the future, they will just adjust the cost/advantage ratio so that people are still upset, but not enough to overturn the apple cart and refuse to play the game. I'm a big gamer and have never paid for loot boxes, unlockable items, etc... but have paid for 'proper' DLC like expansion packs, extra missions, etc... All it will take to stop the loot boxes is for the gaming public to stop buying; but that will never happen!

So many amazing games in recent years - The Witcher 3 and Zelda Breath of the Wild probably two of my lifetime top 5 (and I've been gaming for over 25 years), both out in the recent past. If you want a Civilization type game just pick up the most recent Civilization, they are still making them I haven't played Civ 6 but sunk a lot of time into Civ 5 and it is class, still thoroughly intriguing and very enjoyable. Lots of other good strategy games out there. The Tropico series is great craic, you are the 'ruler of a Caribbean island', basically a small banana republic, which is loads of fun and the music is deadly!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=938yiqvaTTM

[ArmaniJeans]

That's not hard to enforce then that's just a tax loss if bookies move to Malta on one hand and a profit loss for the bookies (as people stop betting) on the other.

If we want to curtail people betting for their own good and so they don't burden the health service with their addiction issues we want to wean ourselves off the bookies tax anyway.

Why should I give a toss that the bookies need some poor degenerate to think he can win

Ah, that's fair enough - I was looking at it from a vague idea of 'how can we legally get more/max money from the industry whilst still maintaining the viability of the industry'. Whereas I think you are suggesting that you are happy with the industry being gradually shut down and us taking as much from it as possible whilst that happens. Then at the end we have certain societal benefits and revenue losses. Fine by me.

There may be unintended consequence though - a chance that it will go back to every boozer having one guy who will take bets at sp on the tv races. So we lose the revenue but the degen can still do the loots on a Saturday.

[eamonhonda]

Can't remember if I read it here or somewhere else, but thats a mad trend that EA games is trying to introduce into gaming. My loose understanding is they tried to sell a Star Wars game for a hefty €70 and then have extra charges within the game to e.g. unlock Darth Vadar. wtf were they thinking.

My old housemate had the last call of duty. Again 70e. They release extra maps throughout the year at a further cost of maybe 20 total. Then the fun bit. New weapons can be got exclusively by opening a box which requires tokens. You open the box to complete lottery hoping for a new weapon but you get something shit like a badge for your character or the likes
Tokens can be earned very slowly through the game or you can get daddy's credit card out and have a gamble.
There's videos on YouTube of people buying 200e worth of tokens and getting nothing worthwhile in return.

It's encouraging kids to gamble as the games regardless of the age guideline at front are still aimed at kids, less realistic, novelty weapons etc

[eamonhonda]

Actually I was thinking of dipping my toes into a computer game. Maybe a civilisation style game. See Age of Empires II is available from Steam for €20 - would that be a great game of the genre? Or is there some other fantastic example of modern (single-player) gaming thats worth it as a first game if you haven't played in about 10 years? Like a game where you play it and think 'wow, gaming is now amazing'. Was always a fan of those games like Railway Tycoon where you need to build a business empire in some obscure occupation.

Ah, pepperoni pizza. Good times

[Strewelpeter]

My old housemate had the last call of duty. Again 70e. They release extra maps throughout the year at a further cost of maybe 20 total. Then the fun bit. New weapons can be got exclusively by opening a box which requires tokens. You open the box to complete lottery hoping for a new weapon but you get something shit like a badge for your character or the likes
Tokens can be earned very slowly through the game or you can get daddy's credit card out and have a gamble.
There's videos on YouTube of people buying 200e worth of tokens and getting nothing worthwhile in return.

It's encouraging kids to gamble as the games regardless of the age guideline at front are still aimed at kids, less realistic, novelty weapons etc

Will be hilarious when some bewildered oul wan's CC gets hit for a few hundred quid and she calls Joe to help her figure out WTF just happened

[Denny Crane]

Ah, that's fair enough - I was looking at it from a vague idea of 'how can we legally get more/max money from the industry whilst still maintaining the viability of the industry'. Whereas I think you are suggesting that you are happy with the industry being gradually shut down and us taking as much from it as possible whilst that happens. Then at the end we have certain societal benefits and revenue losses. Fine by me.

There may be unintended consequence though - a chance that it will go back to every boozer having one guy who will take bets at sp on the tv races. So we lose the revenue but the degen can still do the loots on a Saturday.

Would we really lose much if we lost all the bookmakers and gambling was purely via exchanges? Seems only fair that the loots should go to the actual odds compilers rather than marketers?

[Keane]

Ah, that's fair enough - I was looking at it from a vague idea of 'how can we legally get more/max money from the industry whilst still maintaining the viability of the industry'. Whereas I think you are suggesting that you are happy with the industry being gradually shut down and us taking as much from it as possible whilst that happens. Then at the end we have certain societal benefits and revenue losses. Fine by me.

There may be unintended consequence though - a chance that it will go back to every boozer having one guy who will take bets at sp on the tv races. So we lose the revenue but the degen can still do the loots on a Saturday.

No I was just asking about why taxing gambling winnings is hard to enforce as per Strewel's posts out of interest.

I can understand the rev maximisation side of what you're saying for sure, but that doesn't/shouldn't make any difference from the health or harm reduction POV.

[6starpool]

No I was just asking about why taxing gambling winnings is hard to enforce as per Strewel's posts out of interest.

I can understand the rev maximisation side of what you're saying for sure, but that doesn't/shouldn't make any difference from the health or harm reduction POV.

Yep, if people got less out of it they would be less inclined to do it, same as more expensive alcohol. Those with problems from both things though will find a way, regardless of cost.

[AndyFatBastard]

Actually I was thinking of dipping my toes into a computer game. Maybe a civilisation style game. See Age of Empires II is available from Steam for €20 - would that be a great game of the genre? Or is there some other fantastic example of modern (single-player) gaming thats worth it as a first game if you haven't played in about 10 years? Like a game where you play it and think 'wow, gaming is now amazing'. Was always a fan of those games like Railway Tycoon where you need to build a business empire in some obscure occupation.

I'd highly recommend Civ 5. You need to get all the expansion packs, but when you do it's very close to perfect. Civ 6 is available, but still needs improvement and rebalancing to fulfill its potential.

If you like solving puzzles, then The Talos Principle is unreal. Probably the most beautiful game I've ever played, and full of really deep philosophical ideas.

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[Denny Crane]

Shows how long it is since I've played computer games but the original tropico was great. Nothing like assassinating your opponents in cold blood.

[DeadParrot]

Will be hilarious when some bewildered oul wan's CC gets hit for a few hundred quid and she calls Joe to help her figure out WTF just happened

already happened. many times.
My daughter managed to sink €60 on my ps4 buying some game on the store (while my missus let her "play with the buttons")

I play FUT quite a lot, well a lot less now but still, anyway, people sinking 100's or 1000's into packs is a common enough occurrence.

[DeadParrot]

I LOVE this

KODI BOXES COULD KILL THEIR OWNERS, EXPERTS WARN

People are being urged to unplug the devices immediately

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/kodi-boxes-safety-warnings-kill-owners-electrocution-fire-hazard-piracy-a8056471.html

[Tar.Aldarion]

I'm in the middle of The Talos Principal atm, it's a class game! I generally find it hard to try new games but as this was a gift I put in a token show of effort by actually installing the game, turned out to be a great move.


Civ 5 for you Hitch, and in another vein obv portal and portal 2 would be good for anybody.

[Tar.Aldarion]

Am loving this game atm, everspace. Get to fly around in space and blow shit up. my dream. I actually bought it for my friend on his birthday and steam fucked up and gave us both a copy, otherwise I'd never have had it. Was actually terrified trying to not get sucked into a black hole the other night, love it. It's like FTL but with graphics.

[Guest]

I play FUT quite a lot, well a lot less now but still, anyway, people sinking 100's or 1000's into packs is a common enough occurrence.

I would imagine FUT black Friday must be close to EA's most profitable time period for any game add on throughout the year.
I play a bit too but avoid the packs

[DeadParrot]

I would imagine FUT black Friday must be close to EA's most profitable time period for any game add on throughout the year.
I play a bit too but avoid the packs

FUT Primer
(ultimate team is a game mode where you create your own 'Ultimate Team'
using coins earned playing games/ completing challenges, rewards etc)
Use the coins to buy packs from the store or buying players on the transfer market.
You can also buy FIFA points using real world money to buy packs.

It's absolutely insane on Black Friday.
Market crashes and people spend buckets on packs.
The thing is EA dont do deals for black friday, they just release more expensive packs, albeit in a limited time or lightning round type thing.

So what happens is, 100k pack is released (normal pack is 5k/7500k)
players go crazy selling their players on the market undercutting each other and driving player prices down. People spend €100's of FIFA points to get packs during their availability market, pack luck being what it is you get some good, mostly shit...people sell off their lower/mid tier players or (high tier players they wont use) at a lower and lower price to open more packs to hopefully pack a great player (ronaldo, messi, maradona,pele etc)
It's a glorious clusterfuck if you just play for fun

[eamonhonda]

No cunt got my pepperoni pizza age of empires reference. That or ye all ignore me. Cunts either way