Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - Mammy told me not to come.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

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[pokerhand]

Let's go for the non-partisan approach on Trump and instead focus on the most important thing. Performance.

Based on the performance of his Administraion to date, what marks out of 10 would you give him as President? This isn't about Hilary or the media but actual job performance.

I'll start the ball rolling with 2. His administration has been a shambles from Day One and has completely failed to deliver. Next!

I think you are being a bit harsh on him. Would give him a rating of 7.

[Kayroo]

I think you are being a bit harsh on him. Would give him a rating of 7.

Based upon?

[Solksjaer!]

Kayroo must be on a mid term break Tis comforting to see a man argue the anti Trump case so well and still meet the same level of resistance that us mere flybynight political savvy types meet. Gore putting up a stubborn and somewhat impressive defence of his views though no matter what degree you take it to. (Types Gorrr but was ironically auto corrected to Gore).

[Guest]

Let's go for the non-partisan approach on Trump and instead focus on the most important thing. Performance.

Based on the performance of his Administraion to date, what marks out of 10 would you give him as President? This isn't about Hilary or the media but actual job performance.

I'll start the ball rolling with 2. His administration has been a shambles from Day One and has completely failed to deliver. Next!

One of the few positives he has stopped funding for saint obamas freedom fighters in Syria assorted head hackers which also contributed to the huge refugee crisis. He still is a disaster though but I'd prefer him over Hillary. I was in Glorida when the ejection was taking place and most of the people I talked to were voting Clinton besides the average working man who said they were sick of voting for politicians.

[pokerhand]

Based upon?

Not repealing the laws on rape +1
Not changing the constitution to make himself dictator +1
Not pressing the red button +5

[mugsy]

kerry -3 7/5 is a solid wager

2-2 in spurs/chelsea match sounds about right.

there is a storm end later so bring an umbrella if out and about

[Solksjaer!]

Mayo/mayo at 5s ht/ft .

[Guest]

Pretty sure I haven't encountered a single nice person in the Bordeaux area, nor seen one of them smile. Not sure if it's just they hate English people which everyone assumes you are, or are just a joyless bunch.
Guy yesterday sighed audibly when we asked for a menu and didn't know what we wanted in advance of knowing what they sold.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

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[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

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[gorrrr72]

I won't go through everything you said because the first sentence shows you have no idea what you're talking about. Since you failed to engage with the rest of what I said constructively I'll do you the same courtesy.

A false equivalence isn't an equivalence between a truth and a falsehood. It's a comparison between two truths where they are treated as being equal despite the fact that they only shares some passing commonalities. Otherwise it's a comparison with a falsehood.

A good example is the demagogue one I referred to. Trump and Clinton have both spoken about immigration and have both spoken about terrorism. The mechanism used by Trump to do that, the manner and fashion of his rhetoric, are clearly on an entirely different level to Clinton. Trump's use of the "other" as a political tactic and the scaremongering he invites are classic tools of the demagogue. You then equate that to things Clinton has said and done when they are, by any reasonable measure, simply not the same.

That is a false equivalence.

Fine, I didn't know exactly what a false equivalence means. So I don't know what I am talking about. You win the argument.

I will tell you this though, your tactic is to use words and terms that most people have to use a thesaurus to understand the exact definition of and then in you swoop so that you can show your wealth of knowledge of language.
I'm not saying it's a bad tactic but if you spend this much time arguing about what false equivalence and other such terms mean then I bet a lot of your friends eyes glaze over with boredom. You never really get to the meat of the debate but I am sure you win every time.
I suppose I shouldn't be surprised given your profession.

[Guest]

You're vastly more charming than me zuut, having met you irl, if they're nice to me (including in Bordeaux)... It's just their unspoken rule about not embracing people they don't know.

Seem to remember it being less hostile in Brittany and in the South East, but maybe I'm imagining it. Also, me..charming..lol

[shrapnel]

French people are seriously lovely. They're just a bit reserved on first contact. Think they need about three greetings before you're their friend for life. Before that nothing.

Nah, the French as a nation are moany whiny self entitled arseholes. Doesn't change the fact a huge proportion are not and are very nice people instead.

[hotspur]

Pretty sure I haven't encountered a single nice person in the Bordeaux area, nor seen one of them smile. Not sure if it's just they hate English people which everyone assumes you are, or are just a joyless bunch.
Guy yesterday sighed audibly when we asked for a menu and didn't know what we wanted in advance of knowing what they sold.

Made me think of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laFGAp6Ip40

[cardshark202]

You said in your last post that you didn't want a non-partisan media, and in this post you said you didn't want a partisan one, which is it? You're sending me mixed messages here.

You clarified the rest which I mostly agree with, call a liar out when they are found out, I'm fine with that. I do believe that the Clinton power weighted the press cofefe more in her favour though. You should watch some of the old Chris Hitchens stuff on the Clintons. I wish he had of been alive to weigh in on this election cycle, I know he would have destroyed Trump but he would have destroyed Clinton too.

Not mixed at all. I said the goal isn't just a non-partisan media, it's a truly objective media that sticks to factually accurate reporting and doesn't suffer from a neutrality bias. This is my opinion anyway.

I didn't think it was that complex.

[Raoul Duke III]

Gorrr, do you think Trump is a good, effective President and why\why not?

[MrsFlushdraw]

ill second that and especially if you have kids , fact. my job involves dealing with all sorts /races i am nice and treat everyone the same , however in certain situations i ask myself , would you like them on your door or playing with your kids , and the answer is no because yes I am racist in certain situations

there are so many different types of people on the planet that you actually cant like them all because of gender , colour , groups etc so yes u are gonna be racist in some way
I have had all of the above screaming in my face btw at some point more so than your average irish typical person

Moving out here has myself and my kids mixing with many races. One of my close friends is from Libya. What many Maltese forget when they are insulting "those bloody arabs" is that the Maltese language has many similarities to Their language and they can understand what they are saying! but they really do hate them. They are quite the racist nation.

They don't come right out and say "No Blacks apply" on their door signs looking for workers. They write "EU Citizens only" ...

Aimee has kids from all over the world in her class, she doesn't think a thing about it, they are her friends. The sad thing for her was that Scott had to leave the Country due to racist comments the family had endured. The mother is from Ghana and the father from Finland. The children took the mothers colour and have been verbally abused over the last few years and they left to live in Amsterdam once the school's broke up.

I admit to being a bit racist, but half the time it is silly jokes (still wrong) but I do mix with loads of people and have no problems with my kids mixing with kids of other races either.

[gorrrr72]

Not mixed at all. I said the goal isn't just a non-partisan media, it's a truly objective media that sticks to factually accurate reporting and doesn't suffer from a neutrality bias. This is my opinion anyway.

I didn't think it was that complex.

We agree on this.

[Kayroo]

Fine, I didn't know exactly what a false equivalence means. So I don't know what I am talking about. You win the argument.

I will tell you this though, your tactic is to use words and terms that most people have to use a thesaurus to understand the exact definition of and then in you swoop so that you can show your wealth of knowledge of language.
I'm not saying it's a bad tactic but if you spend this much time arguing about what false equivalence and other such terms mean then I bet a lot of your friends eyes glaze over with boredom. You never really get to the meat of the debate but I am sure you win every time.
I suppose I shouldn't be surprised given your profession.

I made a point about false equivalences. You took issue with it and that's what we were debating. That was the meat of the debate. You want to discuss bias in media or any other topic I'll be happy to do that too.

Any issue I've taken with you has been with issues you've raised or points you've made. Don't try and make this about me, my job or my ability to argue. It's unbecoming and beneath reasonable argument.

[careca]

The boars head at 11am seemed like a great idea...

[Kayroo]

The boars head at 11am seemed like a great idea...

Don't worry, you're going to mangle them today.

Unless the rain gets bad. Then I'm not as sure...

[Guest]

These aren't the same thing.

The English street names were given when we were part of the United Kingdom. The names were given as part of an ordinary process of naming streets at the time.

The vast majority of the confederate statues were built either during reconstruction or during the Civil Rights movement. They were built, intentionally, as reminders of white power in the south. They were built specifically as symbols of repressive power.

Secondly, the South lost. The statues are in commemoration of rebels who took up arms against the United States of America and rebels who did so, in no small part, in defence of the institution of slavery.

Much as you might detest the English, the two situations are not even remotely comparable. That's not to say that I think we shouldn't rename streets. If the people want that and our democratically elected representatives give it their imprimatur then so be it. But it's not inconsistent to think that the confederate statues in the US should be removed and the street names in Cork should remain.

I don't detest the English ,just their establishment (and the BBC). Don't agree with the idea to rename English given street names myself ,it's whitewashing history
Wet to your point about the statues ,fair enough Asti why they were built and why they should come down

[Guest]

Close call today leaving home for Croker.just had the idea leaving to house to make sure Croke park hadn't banned backpacks,of course they have (which is an overreaction tbh) .luckily transferred my raingear,sambos and tea to an a4 sized shoulder bag so won't have to make any contributions to the Dublin economy

[Guest]

AI final moved to next week if mayo win today (actually wouldn't mind seeing them win it especially given this years trials but nope)

[gorrrr72]

Gorrr, do you think Trump is a good, effective President and why\why not?

Of course not, he has no business being in politics. The primaries and the election cycle was great fun to watch and I think it was badly needed to shake up US politics. And it worked, many more people have got involved and interested in it and I hope that the future brings someone who is a suitable leader. Trump is not it and Clinton wasn't it.

[Opr]

Legia Warsaw ultras. Make sure you watch past the 1m30s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCdEj7rtA18

Opr

[Strewelpeter]

Anyone want to lay me 3/1 Mayo to qualify?

[Guest]

Made me think of this:

Still chipping away with the passive-aggressive potshots? Been a while I guess.

[gorrrr72]

I made a point about false equivalences. You took issue with it and that's what we were debating. That was the meat of the debate. You want to discuss bias in media or any other topic I'll be happy to do that too.

Any issue I've taken with you has been with issues you've raised or points you've made. Don't try and make this about me, my job or my ability to argue. It's unbecoming and beneath reasonable argument.

Well my version and your version of the meat of the debate differ. I wasn't really interested in a lesson in what false equivalence meant and felt that we spent too much time on it.

I apologize for mentioning your profession in a derogatory manner, I know it wasn't you who said it but I was still scathing at the racist label put on me yesterday even though I said many times that I am not pro-Trump, and I don't agree that Trump supporters should be brandished racists anyway.

[Strewelpeter]

and I don't agree that Trump supporters should be brandished racists anyway.

What kind of a percentage of the minority of voters who did vote for Trump do you think were strongly motivated by feelings that could befairly described as racist?

[Jibzzzz]

Mayo 4 Sam gents.

[Raoul Duke III]

Two umfamiliar teams playing in Croke Park. Kerry in blue? Abomination.

[ghostface]

O Shea marking Donahy is hilarious

[gorrrr72]

What kind of a percentage of the minority of voters who did vote for Trump do you think were strongly motivated by feelings that could be fairly described as racist?

I don't think anyone can be fairly described as racist without evidence of actions of racism.
Voting for Trump is not an act of racism.

[hotspur]

Still chipping away with the passive-aggressive potshots? Been a while I guess.

Yeah I don't know why I get irritated by some of your posts complaining about things. There are loads of others moaning, but I think maybe it's because you are intelligent. As in, you're clever enough to be more aware and rounded than you come across.

Anyway, I apologise. I shouldn't be having a go at you, and won't again.

[The Situation]

Wow was gonna leave Chelsea today but a drift to 3.9 is too big despite injury crises. Come on champs!

[Kayroo]

Well my version and your version of the meat of the debate differ. I wasn't really interested in a lesson in what false equivalence meant and felt that we spent too much time on it.

I apologize for mentioning your profession in a derogatory manner, I know it wasn't you who said it but I was still scathing at the racist label put on me yesterday even though I said many times that I am not pro-Trump, and I don't agree that Trump supporters should be brandished racists anyway.

My profession doesn't need my protection. It's big enough and bold enough. I could live without you making personal remarks about me though. As you say, I never called you racist, nor would I. I also completely accept that you're not a Trump supporter.

[Raoul Duke III]

I don't think anyone can be fairly described as racist without evidence of actions of racism.
Voting for Trump is not an act of racism.

After the dog-whistle racist utterances that Trump came out with on the campaign trail, it's safe to say that some people voted for him for that reason.

[gorrrr72]

After the dog-whistle racist utterances that Trump came out with on the campaign trail, it's safe to say that some people voted for him for that reason.

True, but that's a separate point.

[Strewelpeter]

Pat's head is going to assplode

[Guest]

Yeah I don't know why I get irritated by some of your posts complaining about things. There are loads of others moaning, but I think maybe it's because you are intelligent. As in, you're clever enough to be more aware and rounded than you come across.

Anyway, I apologise. I shouldn't be having a go at you, and won't again.

No worries. At least I wasn't imagining it! Whatever about academic intelligence I'm probably about a 7 year old in EQ terms.
I do like a good complain but I don't really feel as strongly as it might come across in text form. Except about babies, they really are no craic.

[Strewelpeter]

True, but that's a separate point.

No its not, it is a part of what I'm asking you.

[Raoul Duke III]

True, but that's a separate point.

You said:

Voting for Trump is not an act of racism

Then you agreed with a statement that some people voted for Trump for racist reasons.

You're now disagreeing with yourself. You're all over the place here.

[Morihei]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vctjm9nUF68

[gorrrr72]

You said:



Then you agreed with a statement that some people voted for Trump for racist reasons.

You're now disagreeing with yourself. You're all over the place here.

No I'm not mate.
While I agree that it's possible and probable that some people who voted for Trump are themselves racist and believe that Trump is aligned with their views, I also contend that voting for Trump is not in of itself an act of racism.

[Raoul Duke III]

No I'm not mate.
While I agree that it's possible and probable that some people who voted for Trump are themselves racist and believe that Trump is aligned with their views, I also contend that voting for Trump is not in of itself an act of racism.

[pokerhand]

You said:



Then you agreed with a statement that some people voted for Trump for racist reasons.

You're now disagreeing with yourself. You're all over the place here.

Ah cop on to yourself here. He is not being inconsistent.... a vote for trump is not racist in itself. There are many reasons why someone voted for Trump, for some it is on racist grounds, but a lot of other people it would be for the novelity of having a non policition as president, for the majority it would be that they were voting for the republicion ticket. You can't apply a black/white view, it is a gross simplification.

[Ed]

First Wow Burger today, would go again

[Raoul Duke III]

Ah cop on to yourself here. He is not being inconsistent.... a vote for trump is not racist in itself. There are many reasons why someone voted for Trump, for some it is on racist grounds, but a lot of other people it would be for the novelity of having a non policition as president, for the majority it would be that they were voting for the republicion ticket. You can't apply a black/white view, it is a gross simplification.

So those people who voted for Trump because they felt his racist views were aligned with their own - that vote was NOT 'an act of racism'.

Good luck with that one.

[Strewelpeter]

Thats insane...more or less a failed suicide attempt, his landing can't be much more than a meter from the jetty

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vctjm9nUF68

[pokerhand]

So those people who voted for Trump because they felt his racist views were aligned with their own - that vote was NOT 'an act of racism'.

Good luck with that one.

all votes

[Morihei]

Thats insane...more or less a failed suicide attempt, his landing can't be much more than a meter from the jetty

Yeah he cuts it pretty close sometimes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKZFv1cFonk

[Guest]

Thats insane...more or less a failed suicide attempt, his landing can't be much more than a meter from the jetty

Pretty sure he has seriously hurt himself + been identified by cops since that one.we'd never have made it to the moon without the impulse to do those kind of things though

[gorrrr72]

So those people who voted for Trump because they felt his racist views were aligned with their own - that vote was NOT 'an act of racism'.

Good luck with that one.

That's not what I said. I said that voting for Trump in of itself is not an act of racism.
If a racist chooses to vote for Trump thinking that his views are aligned with Trump's then that's their own choice, you can call his actions an act of racism but it doesn't mean that all Trump voters are guilty of that.
If they were then who are the black voters who voted for him racist against? Who are the Latino voters who voted for him racist against?
Who are the Asian voters who voted for him racist against?

[Strewelpeter]

Pretty sure he has seriously hurt himself + been identified by cops since that one.we'd never have made it to the moon without the impulse to do those kind of things though

LOL
I don't think the impulses or motivations are even a little bit similar

[Strewelpeter]

That's not what I said. I said that voting for Trump in of itself is not an act of racism.

Who even hinted that it was

If a racist chooses to vote for Trump thinking that his views are aligned with Trump's then that's their own choice, you can call his actions an act of racism but it doesn't mean that all Trump voters are guilty of that.
If they were then who are the black voters who voted for him racist against? Who are the Latino voters who voted for him racist against?
Who are the Asian voters who voted for him racist against?

Dig upwards

[Guest]

LOL
I don't think the impulses or motivations are even a little bit similar

Motivations maybe not,but you had to have a fairly ambivalent attitude to your personal safety to be in the thick of it in the space race

[Raoul Duke III]

That's not what I said. I said that voting for Trump in of itself is not an act of racism.
If a racist chooses to vote for Trump thinking that his views are aligned with Trump's then that's their own choice, you can call his actions an act of racism but it doesn't mean that all Trump voters are guilty of that.
If they were then who are the black voters who voted for him racist against? Who are the Latino voters who voted for him racist against?
Who are the Asian voters who voted for him racist against?

Jaysis, after Kayroo ripped you a new one I thought you would quit while you're behind.

You've now gone off on a new twist down your rabbit hole. Let's recap.

I said:

After the dog-whistle racist utterances that Trump came out with on the campaign trail, it's safe to say that some people voted for him for that reason.

I helpfully bolded the word 'some'.

You agreed with this!

Yet now you seem to have gotten it into your skull that the word 'some' means 'all'. You would literally be laughed out of court with this nonsense.

[Raoul Duke III]

Here gorrr, I'll make it real simple:

1. People voted for Trump for all kinds of reasons.
2. Some people voted for Trump because they liked his dog-whistle racism (and that of his camp followers like Bannon)
3. The people who voted for Trump for the reason at (2); their votes were, in of themselves, an act of racism.
4. All other Trump voters were not consciously performing a racist act when voting for him. Maybe they liked his attitude towards women.