Bad Beat/Moaning/Venting - pray for Lazare

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[Guest]

For example?

The Irish are classified as ethnic minorities in UK; what cash do you think gets released as a result? The only noticeable outcome is that you are asked to fill in a form stating your ethnicity, and then public bodies are checked to see if they have any endemic discrimination. It's mainly for tracking. I don't think there's any cash attached to it, or if there is, its pennies, and definitely nothing for any individual Traveller, the same way as theres none for Irish as ethnic minorities in the UK.

I dunno I presume some sort of new quango would be set upbor it would entitle Paved point to an increase in government funding

[Guest]

You probably don't have people protesting if you want to move next door to them though. And politicians actively campaigning to protect the ordinary nimby from having to see you.

I think the idea is that ethnic status is something assigned to groups when things aren't working out, rather than for foundational members of the horsehead elite with swishy umbrellas.

I'm sure Raoul and his ancestors don't have a history of pitchfork and slash hook fights at weddings and especially funerals. I'm sure I'd have a reduced life expectancy if I lived in squalor in a caravan spent my spare time bare knuckle fighting sulky racing and robbing scrap metal.

[shrapnel]

Ethnicity indeed has nothing to do with socio-economic status, but it tends to mainly be resorted to as a designation by minority groups when things aren't working out for them. There's no reason for you to seek ethnic minority designation as a protestant as there's no obvious issues with being a protestant in Ireland. Plus separate legislation protects your religious freedoms.

ethnicity is not reported or highlighted in France. Absolute morons .

talk about head in the sand type of bullshit

[Raoul Duke III]

My understanding is that the English were always perfect gentlemen throughout their entire time on this island, so you might have a point there.

I don't have many English ancestors - one grandfather was born in Manchester, the rest all pure Irish

I'd imagine some soup was supped back in the mists of time by an enterprising Duke on the make

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[Raoul Duke III]

maybe they don't want to stay in school learning german until 18, maybe they want to continue a tradition of getting married early, maybe they want to live in a caravan, i don't think they asked for benefits - the state set up rules that means they get them though.

sure

but don't cry 'racism' when your own shit choices result in your having a shit life

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[Raoul Duke III]

ah i thought protestant in ireland meant english settler origin

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[Guest]

well if you think its okay to talk about a group of people en masse like that then maybe thats why they don't want to be in the same group as you.




My understanding is that the English were always perfect gentlemen throughout their entire time on this island, so you might have a point there.

There is 40000 travellers in ireland. Every time barring it bring a major criminals funeral vast police resources are used pubs and businesses have to close down from fear. I grew up in a traveller town went to school with 5 or 6 lads not one went to secondary school. Was a choice of the tech or garb ally college which Cost 40 pound a year. The kids I was in school with were impoverished and they stank . No group ethnic or otherwise gets so much housing benefits air time and resources and gives so little back. Pavee point never condone illegal racing of horses many left to die on the side of roads or criminal gangs who roam the country like the case a few weeks ago it's there culture.

[Guest]

especially don't cry racism when you don't think you are a different race, just a cultural ethnic minority.

its difficult though: you see it in US / Australia too, where one group in society shoots massively ahead and then starts berating the other group (abos, native americans) for being slow to catch up. When really its a valid enough question as to which way of life is better. Theres a decent case to be made that travelers have made better life satisfaction choices than, say, the gimp who works in fund accounting for 40 years.

The dominant social groups in Us/Australia didn't shoot massively ahead of aborigines /native Americans,They killed most of them!!!?? Don't recall any genocide campaigns against travellers over here

[Guest]

I don't have many English ancestors - one grandfather was born in Manchester, the rest all pure Irish

I'd imagine some soup was supped back in the mists of time by an enterprising Duke on the make

Didn't want to mention soup. But I can imagine back in 1840s with your ribs sticking out and half dead doing anything for survival. Changing religion was a smarter choice than starving.

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[Guest]

Thats the whole point that is being made - they are culturally different, ergo they're an ethnic group if they self-identify as such.

Nobody, and hopefully not me but i do tend to mentally wander, is making the case that its an admirable, worthy, or likeable ethnic group; just that it is clearly an ethnic group.

Using its there culture is a blanket to hide under when doing criminal things fighting robbing dumping marrying your under age cousins great craic.

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[Keane]

I don't think the rent review freeze is going to have the impact you guys are saying it will.

You're all talking about how landlords will be flying out to increase their rents before it comes in, but there's hardly a rental property in Dublin that hasn't already had this done in the last 12 months anyway?

I would guess something in the order of 90%+ of properties have either had the rent increased or were going to have their rent increased in 2015 regardless.

In my case, my rent went up in May as it did the previous year. We were doubtless going to get another increase next May. Now this is going to come in and the landlord can't bump us up again till May 2017. The news of it is no good to him because he's already raised the rent in 2015 so can't sting us again, as will be the case in most places.

[Lord Sir Banter]

anyways, its Friiiiday

Serious spinal curve there, science yo.

[Lazare]

anyways, its Friiiiday

Holy fucking jesus.

[eamonhonda]

I don't think the rent review freeze is going to have the impact you guys are saying it will.

You're all talking about how landlords will be flying out to increase their rents before it comes in, but there's hardly a rental property in Dublin that hasn't already had this done in the last 12 months anyway?

I would guess something in the order of 90%+ of properties have either had the rent increased or were going to have their rent increased in 2015 regardless.

In my case, my rent went up in May as it did the previous year. We were doubtless going to get another increase next May. Now this is going to come in and the landlord can't bump us up again till May 2017. The news of it is no good to him because he's already raised the rent in 2015 so can't sting us again, as will be the case in most places.

Yeah that works out for some people who have got an increase recently. But what about the next person who's rent is due increase on January and it was planning to go up 50 euro per month this year and 50 again next year. Landlord will now just go for 100 euro increase straight away. This will happen in a lot of cases and would cost the tenant an extra 600 over two years in that case.

[AndyFatBastard]

Get the Travellers to build the apartments. IPB solving the world's problems two at a time.

[Keane]

Yeah that works out for some people who have got an increase recently. But what about the next person who's rent is due increase on January and it was planning to go up 50 euro per month this year and 50 again next year. Landlord will now just go for 100 euro increase straight away. This will happen in a lot of cases and would cost the tenant an extra 600 over two years in that case.

It's not recently, it's any time in the past 12 months which will be nearly 100%, since I doubt many landlords are in the habit of doing their rent increases a month before xmas.

The landlord can only increase the rent to the current market rate even for those who will be able to now. If someone is paying 1200 for a 1 bed in the IFSC now, the landlord can't just decide to raise the rent to 1600 when all the rest of them are 1200.

In the case of people who are both paying below market rates AND not getting regular rent increases, they might get a large increase, but what % of landlords who have been charging low rates and not increasing them are likely to go rabidly after profit maximization all of a sudden?

[eamonhonda]

It's not recently, it's any time in the past 12 months which will be nearly 100%, since I doubt many landlords are in the habit of doing their rent increases a month before xmas.

The landlord can only increase the rent to the current market rate even for those who will be able to now. If someone is paying 1200 for a 1 bed in the IFSC now, the landlord can't just decide to raise the rent to 1600 when all the rest of them are 1200.

In the case of people who are both paying below market rates AND not getting regular rent increases, they might get a large increase, but what % of landlords who have been charging low rates and not increasing them are likely to go rabidly after profit maximization all of a sudden?

It's not the last 12 months from what I read, it's from some date in the summer. Rent increases are usually the date they first move in so that will affect plenty of people no matter what the date. My increase is just before xmas for example.

Good portion of landlords are cunts. If they all raise the rent the market value goes up and they all get paid. It's not like they have to have a meeting about it demand is high it will just happen. Most will be raising more than they would otherwise thinking the two year thing imo for a good portion of people

[SatNav]

anyways, its Friiiiday

Ah how I miss weekends. Stuck at work till 9pm tonight, back in at 9 in morning. Off sun. By jesus I'll drink a bucket load of vino tomorrow night!!!

[Keane]

It's not the last 12 months from what I read, it's from some date in the summer. Rent increases are usually the date they first move in so that will affect plenty of people no matter what the date. My increase is just before xmas for example.

Good portion of landlords are cunts. If they all raise the rent the market value goes up and they all get paid. It's not like they have to have a meeting about it demand is high it will just happen. Most will be raising more than they would otherwise thinking the two year thing imo for a good portion of people

The RTE report on this said that if someone's rent is due to go up in January it will now not be able to go up until January 2017, which is why I'm assuming this applies to the last 12 months worth of increases. Obviously if the deadline is more recent there's scope for increases for more people.

Landlords were and are all going to raise rents regardless, they still can't double or triple an increase to well above the market rate to insulate themselves with this.

Where did you see some date in the summer?

[Raoul Duke III]

can't stop watching that gif

really want to know what the weather is going to do

[DeadParrot]

Holy fucking jesus.

Mexican weather woman. I saw a thread somewhere with lots and lots of her.
I'll look to dig it out later
The common response is...

[Guest]

AndyFB sighting at the hallowed halls of DCU?

[hotspur]

The depth of the level of prejudice against travellers in this country and on this forum is incredible. Otherwise clever people trying to rationalise perspectives which are fundamentally grounded in "I fucking hate knackers". You know a group is truly downtrodden when not even champion of the people Zod speaks up for them.

I don't think living arrangements really make you an ethnic group, if it does do all homeless people become travelers as they are choosing the same way of life?

When have you ever given consideration to the living arrangements of someone when deciding if they are a traveller or not? You know a traveller when you come across one, where they live has nothing to do with the designation.

Travelers cant be an ethnic group because of race, religion or language as those make them the more Irish than most of the country.

This is not a binary issue whereby you are either Irish or an ethnic minority. Ethnicity doesn't work that way. And clearly Irish travellers have differences in language, I can't speak the Cant that travellers can speak. Religion wise travellers are pre-Vatican II Catholics. Genetically DNA research suggests that they separated between 1,000 and 2,000 years ago.

How can you demand to be included as ordinary citizens and treated the same as everyone else on one hand and on the other be treated differently and everyone be respectful of your massive differences and the fact that you want special treatment.

Actually listen to your language "How can you demand to be included as ordinary citizens". You are not even talking about ethnicity there, you are outraged that travellers have the cheek to want to be included as "ordinary citizens". Though I'm not sure you mean to question their rights to citizenship as such, it's just another "fuck you knackers" statement.

Pluralism vs integration is an issue here. Integrationism is the failed and ill conceived idea that minorities should be expected and encouraged to integrate into the dominant culture, a culture which in Ireland until recently was, as derided by David Trimble, a monoculture. Pluralism accepts cultural differences and respects their continued existence without an agenda of trying to integrate or assimilate them into the dominant culture.

So you can be the same in important respects and different in important respects. Again this is not binary stuff whereby you can't demand to be treated the same and also have differences respected. Travellers suffer in education, accommodation, healthcare, jobs, essentially "racism" or whatever you want to call it from it from most of society. These are basic things that everyone has a right to a certain level of in this country, so they should be treated more like most of us are treated in these matters.

But they are also different. If you come from a millennium of illiterate ancestors right up to your parents then you are probably not on a level playing field to become a barrister. You know how many travellers won't reach the grand old age of 40? Half of them.

Sit with that for a few moments in between the contempt and indigent outrage that they might need different treatment. Half of them will not make it to 40 years of age.

People reacting incredulously that anyone could possibly ever consider them an ethnic group do realise that the UN wants Ireland to recognise them as such and that Irish travellers have been recognised as such in the UK?

I'm neither a bleeding heart PC brigade type, nor am I an idiot. I fully realise that a huge amount of criminality, brutality, and addiction goes on in the traveller community. And it's very distasteful. There are complex cause and effect issues there though. They should be ashamed of a lot of it, and we also should be ashamed of our part in making them feel so disenfranchised as valued human beings in our country. We can be empathic watching the young uns from Baltimore in The Wire and the social context created by the poverty, but knackers are just scum.

I dunno. I really feel like so many in this country and on this forum let themselves down, and let the 30k+ human beings that are Irish travellers in this country down by their attitudes, the things they say, and their fundamental lack of empathy and compassion on this issue. You can be angry at the faults of many and be compassionate towards the suffering of many at the same time if you actually try.

I can understand it, most people have never talked to a traveller, and certainly not about how they feel about being utterly rejected and looked down on like scum or less than human by people in this country.

As I have said before, I have had the rare opportunity to have these discussions with a couple of travellers in my work. I genuinely and wholeheartedly believe that every single one of you if you heard and felt what I did in these interactions would change your minds and your hearts about this issue.

You many still be stern about law and order and responsibilities and the likes, but you wouldn't still use the hurtful rhetoric that you use about them, the blanket contempt for all of "them", the considering them as almost sub-human.

I cannot describe in words the pain, suffering, shame, rejection, and hopelessness they experienced due to these attitudes and behaviours. And let me tell you they were very critical of their own community and those who engage in the things we don't like about it. They were brutalised by those within their own community and then rejected, discriminated against, and shamed by those from our community. And it's wrong. It;s so wrong.

But I know what I'm saying will fall on deaf ears. Those human beings have been dehumanised in our society for so long that our growing fairness, decency, tolerance, and compassion doesn't apply to them.

[AndyFatBastard]

AndyFB sighting at the hallowed halls of DCU?

Yes hi. Wife was graduating today.

[Keane]

Post of the year hotspur.

[Raoul Duke III]

[eamonhonda]

The RTE report on this said that if someone's rent is due to go up in January it will now not be able to go up until January 2017, which is why I'm assuming this applies to the last 12 months worth of increases. Obviously if the deadline is more recent there's scope for increases for more people.

Landlords were and are all going to raise rents regardless, they still can't double or triple an increase to well above the market rate to insulate themselves with this.

Where did you see some date in the summer?

Not sure, Irish times or independent I think, I was reading both sites earlier this morning.

If it's the last 12 months and you're right it's not so bad. But still reckon in two years times they go for hefty increases to make up for what was lost and for the two years coming

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[davepoke/her]

We should send all travelers to Leitrim and let the have free reign and rule themselves as long as they promise to never cross the county border.

[Keane]

Not sure, Irish times or independent I think, I was reading both sites earlier this morning.

If it's the last 12 months and you're right it's not so bad. But still reckon in two years times they go for hefty increases to make up for what was lost and for the two years coming

Yeah possibly, it would be nice to think in two years time something might have happened to ease things a bit though. Even if not it would be useful to have two years to plan one's escape.

The distance back the deadline for increases goes will be vital - if it's the 12 months this will work well, if it's lately it will be an orgy of frontloading and hikes.

[eamonhonda]

Yeah possibly, it would be nice to think in two years time something might have happened to ease things a bit though. Even if not it would be useful to have two years to plan one's escape.

The distance back the deadline for increases goes will be vital - if it's the 12 months this will work well, if it's lately it will be an orgy of frontloading and hikes.

Irish times just says summer, I definitely read an actual date somewhere it could have been edited out.

[Keane]

Irish times just says summer, I definitely read an actual date somewhere it could have been edited out.

The two articles are practically identical beyond IT saying summer and RTE saying January...

The proposals agreed with Mr Noonan will reportedly only allow landlords to increase rent every two years and would mean that a tenant facing a rent increase next January would have it put off for 12 months.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1106/739988-rent-control-talks/

[eamonhonda]

The two articles are practically identical beyond IT saying summer and RTE saying January...



http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1106/739...control-talks/

Full details next week I think, it leaves us both right for now. Anyway it's Friday anymore weather girls? Weekend starts in an hour 3 day session ahead

[DeadParrot]

Top post hotspur.

[Guest]

Ugh it's that time of year where emotionally incontinent simpletons claim to have cried at manipulative slush like this year's John Lewis Christmas ad,which is a new low in the genre

[RichieM]

Get the Travellers to build the apartments. IPB solving the world's problems two at a time.

I don't think building fixed structures is really their specialty tbh

[Tar.Aldarion]

I think it is understated how much your upbringing affects you, for the majority of people it's not something you can break out of, and only to certain degrees. I've seen this especially in the case of abuse of parents to their children. My best friend was raised by a narcissistic parent and as a result has lifelong depression, crippling anxiety and C-PTSD, yet even these mental disorders are often scoffed at by people, let alone the plight of a traveler who is looked down on by everybody . These kids are not dropping out of school for any reason other than they are being told to, that it is unusual to stay in school for them, that they are abused while they are in school and at home if they stay. If you were not raised in the way you were, with the support you had, you would not be who you are. We have it easy, easier than 99% of the world but deign to scoff others because they are "scum"? Yeah, guess they are just born that way. Next up junkies, then maybe refugees.

[Theresa]

I dislike that that remembrance day here in Alberta / Canada has ceased to be about the World Wars and more an excuse to justify a growing islamaphobia and their involvement in the Gulf Wars/Afghanistan.

Slogans like "Never Forget" alongside pics of soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq and comparing things we have today that soldiers in Iraq have suffered for.

Feels hollow.

I do get a day off for it though so fuck the indignation... ship.

[rounders123]

Im afraid to report the flagrant rise of strategically placed guitars in Airbnb listings.
''Look at me im a chilled out dude, i must be because the proof is look at my guitar hanging on the wall''.

[Zod]

You know a group is truly downtrodden when not even champion of the people Zod speaks up for them.

YET!

And sure, why should I try when you'll be along to do it better than I could anyway.

[Strewelpeter]

Seriously, did you even read it

There isn't as much as a hint of reaching for high moral ground in it unless you think, I've spoken to travellers and they are human too is.

[thechamp87]

Is €120 for a full service and €80 for 2 new front brake pads reasonable?

[Charlie Sheen]

I dislike that that remembrance day here in Alberta / Canada has ceased to be about the World Wars and more an excuse to justify a growing islamaphobia and their involvement in the Gulf Wars/Afghanistan.

Slogans like "Never Forget" alongside pics of soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq and comparing things we have today that soldiers in Iraq have suffered for.

Feels hollow.

I do get a day off for it though so fuck the indignation... ship.

Alberta is full of country bumpkins and Canadian's are quite racist and will be quite open about it.
Small sample sizes but I've had two Canadian's tell me they hate immigrants when I respond that I'm an immigrant apparently I don't count as I'm white and speak English.
A friend of mine was looking for a room to rent when she turned up to view it she was told she couldn't view it as she is black. He maybe could of let her if she was Asian but not black.

And fuck you, I don't get the day off.

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[Frossach]

Is €120 for a full service and €80 for 2 new front brake pads reasonable?

Yes that sound about right. But are you sure it was a full service?

[Dice75]

Is €120 for a full service and €80 for 2 new front brake pads reasonable?

Seems ok. €120 seems like a price for a basic service though.

Herself got a quote from a main dealer to replace 4 brake pads for €450. Getting it done for €220 by a guy down the road. I'm sure different makes vary a bit.

[Guest]

Jaysus. Just loaded up a nursery rhyme video on YouTube for the kids that has just shy of a billion views in a year. Pretty handy way to make a million bucks for the uploader!

[MrsFlushdraw]

Ugh it's that time of year where emotionally incontinent simpletons claim to have cried at manipulative slush like this year's John Lewis Christmas ad,which is a new low in the genre

You sir have no heart!

I thought it was lovely and kids will love it.

[Tar.Aldarion]

Have been playing this on the android app quite a bit now and its a heck of a card game. Have also irl got a starter pack and a construction kit. Really finding it difficult to work out how to build decks though as there's so many variables. Was there a good guide you used to start doing that? (I realise the internet is full of guides, but i don't know what a good guide is).

Its kinda a philosophical issue - i just about understand a deck in isolation, but not how to choose between the various worlds of decks. Then within each deck theres a struggle as to what balance of spells and gruntwork cards.

play hearthstone!!!

[elbows]

You sir have no heart!

I thought it was lovely and kids will love it.

I really like liked it. Not a good idea to watch it in work in my current tired and emotional state.

[dobby]

You sir have no heart!

I thought it was lovely and kids will love it.

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2015/11/06/i-need-the-tears-of-a-nation-to-remain-alive-john-lewis/