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Noel Hayes Nose Bleeds
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Originally posted by cardshark202 View Post
Does Macspower still post?
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Originally posted by Tar.Aldarion View PostGreat reading on that thread, also HoLLLLLaments said gimme a break in every one of his posts
Does Macspower still post?
Some things don't change.
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Originally posted by CHD View PostIt's hilarious how many people in that thread think it's ok to break rules if they are a nice guy/someone they know. If they were cheated they would ball their eyes out.
Some things don't change.
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Originally posted by hotspur View PostThe flip side being how ungenerous and vicious people can be if they don't like the person who did something unskillful.
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Originally posted by cardshark202 View PostWtf are you talking about? Cheating is ok because people have cheated before, eh?
Pretty scummy by all involved. Never liked Hastings, would not have expected Noel to be desperate enough to sink to these depths. He's minted now, so why do this?Originally posted by cardshark202 View PostHave you ever played poker before? Do you believe in playing any game fairly? Or do you believe that since some people will cheat, then everyone should cheat?
Bumhunting may be looked upon unfavourably, but how you can draw a comparison there is mindboggling. You are not forced to play anyone who you don't have an edge against. You can choose to only play weak players, that's fine. But choosing to buy someone else's account to fool players into playing you, well that's pretty low. Maybe you are blinkered because you know one of the people involved. Still doesn't excuse the shocking lack of logic in your posts though. Unreal.Originally posted by cardshark202 View PostIt's all an illusion
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The Gary Clarke thing was different and also very scummy. I didn't say this noelhayes thing wasn't cheating or bad form I just think it's online poker where there is a new scam or scandal every few weeks so am shocked people are so suprised that's all!
Wasn't looking for any kind of a row just giving my opinion! Certainly not on hear to promote cheating like cardshark has mentioned. But hey, I literally couldn't give a Shite.
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Spot on post from two plus two
5=2+2
journeyman
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 361
Re: Brian "Stinger88" Hastings Multi-Accounting as "NoelHayes"
I'm done with this now. Bored beyond belief.
HS poker is like the old peloton in the Tour de France. Everyone cheats and everyone knows everyone cheats but everyone keeps it quiet because everyone else does it so it's all cool. Stop moaning and get on with it because it is what it is.
Too many people think like the above. Of course it mainly stems from the overly competitive, capitalist and malfunctioning socioeconomic bubble of modern life that is so unbalanced it can only implode with time. But I also think the messed up remnants of the poker boom has left many young men in their own clueless bubble due to too much money and never having had to interact and adjust as normal people do in society.
This game ain't so cool and I'm just bored beyond belief.
5=2+2 is online now Report Post
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Originally posted by CHD View PostThey can be. Nowhere near as bad as cheating. Making out that people being ungenerous/vicious is anywhere near as bad is a desperate attempt to pass the fault.
It's entirely up to everyone whether they wish to look for opportunities to cultivate and practice states of mind such as contempt, hatred, condemnation, anger, schadenfreude, or whether they wish to look for opportunities to cultivate and practice states of mind such as kindness, compassion, forgiveness, sympathetic joy etc.
I'm pretty sure I know which choice leads to peace and contentment, and which to agitation and dissatisfaction for me. I guess it's up to everyone to check it with their own experience.
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Originally posted by IPBYOUSAY View Post5=2+2
journeyman
HS poker is like the old peloton in the Tour de France. Everyone cheats and everyone knows everyone cheats but everyone keeps it quiet because everyone else does it so it's all cool. Stop moaning and get on with it because it is what it is.
That lad is a moron who has posted as fact a number of things that are wrong.
Wasn't he the one that said Our Conor won the Grand National or was that the other eejit?Turning millions into thousands
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Originally posted by Strewelpeter View PostHe's just another gobshite. That post is a pisspoor copy of something someone else said much better a while earlier in the thread.
That lad is a moron who has posted as fact a number of things that are wrong.
Wasn't he the one that said Our Conor won the Grand National or was that the other eejit?Last edited by IPBYOUSAY; 26-06-15, 21:14.
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Originally posted by Strewelpeter View PostHe's just another gobshite. That post is a pisspoor copy of something someone else said much better a while earlier in the thread.
That lad is a moron who has posted as fact a number of things that are wrong.
Wasn't he the one that said Our Conor won the Grand National or was that the other eejit?
He could have said Our Conor won the space race whilst rocketing his shit into NASA HQ and the Soviets but that isn't really the point is it m8.
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Originally posted by IPBYOUSAY View PostTbh I can't disagree as im not sure I kind of glossed over a lot of his posts lol. Lots of stuff coming light tho and I'd say it's far from over. Vanessa selbst just basically said it's fine, which is completely wrong imo. I seems as if the majority of hs regs think you're an idiot if you're nor cheating somehow. Mindboggling they got way too much money and fame. Fuckers think thier above the law jungleman and all chiming in says to whist up about like wtf. The one good thing this noel hayes dude did do it shine a big light on this cheating and just maybe it'll stop some more of it
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Originally posted by CHD View PostThe lad who posted that was the lad people thought was me. My IQ is a least 2 points bigger than his.
He could have said Our Conor won the space race whilst rocketing his shit into NASA HQ and the Soviets but that isn't really the point is it m8.
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this wouldn't have caught me out drunk as fuck and havnt used any software in years playing 2 tables on an iPad.
Fecking amateurs playing with all the crutches available. Kids time to take the stabilisers and play like a real man accidentally putting yourself all in while sticking on the next episode of some box set before luck boxing a min cash before deciding it's a bit crap and not playing for another 6 months.
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I don't understand the 'ah shur its happenin loads, be grand tis the way it is now' line of thought that seems to be rampant in this thread and not caring or having sympathy for the people he took 100k's from the comfort of his own home in the usa while they have changed their whole lives to live in other countries and play legally. People would play differently or not play at all in games vs hastings. There seems to an underlying bitterness towards online poker blocking the logical conclusion that its scummy and fucked over alot of people who never touched the shady side of thingsLast edited by Laois Hammer; 26-06-15, 23:35.
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Originally posted by Laois Hammer View PostI don't understand the 'ah shur its happenin loads, be grand tis the way it is now' line of thought that seems to be rampant in this thread and not caring or having sympathy for the people he took 100k's from the comfort of his own home in the usa while they have changed their whole lives to live in other countries and play legally and play differently or not play at all in games vs hastings. There seems to an underlying bitterness towards online poker blocking the logical conclusion that its scummy and fucked over alot of people who done never touched the shady side of things
Originally posted by junglemanlol you guys care way more than i did and i promise i lost way more money than any of you from games with him :$
Originally posted by fslexcduckSo I've only read a really small piece of this thread, apologies if I'm repeating.
I think y'all really need to think about what you're doing as a community. Crucifying someone who is MA'ing is absolutely terrible for poker. Basically, the people who wind up getting burned at the stake (BH, gboro, etc) are the people who were trying to do the "right thing" and come out to some people about their accounts. The people who say nothing to anyone get away scot free.
I'm not condoning the activity of MA'ing but from a pragmatic point of view, what's more likely to result from threads like these - that everyone stops MA'ing, or that they stop coming out to ANYONE at any time?
Furthermore, the idea of blaming Jason Mercier for not coming out with the info is the same situation. If he is supposed to be punished for not immediately outing someone who comes out to him, you basically just ensure that Jason now has to play poker against multiaccounters without that info. Sure, it's a pessimistic attitude, but it's reality.
Since this is a sort of a lose-lose, the only result of threads like these or blaming Mercier is creating totally perverse incentives. Given that, there just has to be some sort of change in the rules/ethical code about changing screen names, or something else has gotta give. I just think it's so short-sighted for everyone to pile on in these instances. Things are not black and white, there are gray areas. What BH did isn't great of course, but surely we can understand the reason behind doing it if you are based in the US (once again I don't know specifics of the activities of whether he was pretending to be fishy or not, but just assuming not for now). So shouldn't we have at least some compassion for existing within the gray area?
Just my 2 cents.
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Originally posted by Flushdraw View PostJungleman's 'Don't give a shit' attitude didn't go down too well in the thread.
And Vanessa Selbst's comment is a bit weird, although she did backtrack a little saying she never read the whole thread, but it also doesn't go down well at all.
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Originally posted by Laois Hammer View Postnot caring or having sympathy for the people he took 100k's from the comfort of his own home in the usa while they have changed their whole lives to live in other countries and play legally
Technically speaking it is a rule breaker to go for a piss or head off for a while and let someone else play a few hands. Wasnt ghosting an issue too. Then you have people being able to hack software and see all your hands face up. Its not a crazy concept considering the amount of poker sites some have invested better than others and has happened before. The smart ones dont just bother going on a unbelievable run and have a crazy up graph no they cunningly stay out of the spotlight but these are relatively high stakes for most to care.
Then you have live poker. Endless ways to cheat and with more technology less obvious. The casinos will invest on being cheated themselves they have that NORA technology that isnt used on poker tables. They dont care really, cheating is bad publicity.
Pokers oirigins are from cheating cowboys and a poxy thread about somebody selling an account isnt going to change a tradition. There will always be different angles.
On the NoelHayes account id imagine a straight up fee was paid and not any continuation. People were commenting why would you pay for an account when you can get a random acccount? People would be suspicious if a randomer started up playing high stakes outofnowhere what you need is a story, people can google and probably dont take it any further than a quick search. Maybe he has done this a few times an the NoelHayes account just happens to be his winner. In retrospect im sure noel wouldnt have sold the account considering the publicity but if you were offered x for a dormant account id say nearly everybody here would sell.
Integrity of the game give me a fucking break.
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some of the responses in this thread are nuts. Multi-accounting is wrong, it's not the same as murdering someone or marking cards but it's still wrong. The fact it's not as bad as murdering someone or marking cards is clearly no excuse. Selling your account in this manner is also wrong. I think the multi-accounting itself is a greater offence but selling the account is still wrong. If the financial incentive is great enough, I'm sure there's plenty of people that would sell their account. It's not the greatest crime in the world and there's plenty of shadiness in poker and in life, but to think it is justifiable because of these reasons is absolutely laughable.
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Originally posted by Jam-Fly View Postsome of the responses in this thread are nuts. Multi-accounting is wrong, it's not the same as murdering someone or marking cards but it's still wrong. The fact it's not as bad as murdering someone or marking cards is clearly no excuse. Selling your account in this manner is also wrong. I think the multi-accounting itself is a greater offence but selling the account is still wrong. If the financial incentive is great enough, I'm sure there's plenty of people that would sell their account. It's not the greatest crime in the world and there's plenty of shadiness in poker and in life, but to think it is justifiable because of these reasons is absolutely laughable.
If you are shocked by this kind of thing you are probably the kind of simpleton who queues up for selfies with Doyle Brunson and Mike sexton,thinks chip reese was some kind of Saint and says crap like best of luck at the tables
I don't think thete is a single HS online pro whose life you read about and go I'd love to swap lives with him. they mostly come across as severely stunted individuals with a world view shrunken by years sat in front of a screen hammering Adderall and ganging up on degenerate bums.
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Originally posted by PSV58 View PostI don't see anyone justifying it. Just people pointing out that you would have to be seriously thick in this day and age to be jumping into HS online games thinking the players you are up against are what they seem. The days of recreational players tipping loads of money onto the tables are long on,these games are a cesspit.
If you are shocked by this kind of thing you are probably the kind of simpleton who queues up for selfies with Doyle Brunson and Mike sexton,thinks chip reese was some kind of Saint and says crap like best of luck at the tables
I don't think thete is a single HS online pro whose life you read about and go I'd love to swap lives with him. they mostly come across as severely stunted individuals with a world view shrunken by years sat in front of a screen hammering Adderall and ganging up on degenerate bums.
Now what has that got to do with this situation?
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Originally posted by Jam-Fly View Postthere's a lot of scumbags and unsavory behaviour in poker, agreed.
Now what has that got to do with this situation?
And I'm not condoning it,just saying it's a lost cause. The poker sites have shown they don't care,it's not in their interest to care,as long as the rake keeps coming they are happy
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Originally posted by IPBYOUSAY View PostJam fly you're def off here. Hastings withheld info to gain an edge, sneakily. The should of course pay the bet in some part but not in full. The money he used t cheat people is money he's using to take more money from the poker community. Sure you can see the wrong in this. Altough I do see where you're coming from. What he done should in no way be rationalised in any way man.
I still think what BH did was possibly against the spirit of the bet, but was not against "the terms" of the bet (ie there was no clause that there had to be full disclosure of what BH did as preparation for this bet). Multi-accounting is a crime in itself and that should be duly punished, but I'm not sure how much BH multi-accounting should affect the bracelet bets. It doesn't paint BH in a good light, and I think people would be hesitant to bet with him again, and it's definitely a bit of a scummy way to gain an advantage in these bets, but I wouldn't go as so far to say these actions should negate the bet or are against the rules/terms/conditions of the bet.
The fact he prepared by playing under a different name definitely makes it a grey area. Bets like these are about information, and using information to make an assessment of what the correct price is. Naturally, both parties want to have an edge. The fact not all information was available to both parties (due to BH multi-accounting) suggests BH had an unfair advantage in the bet. However, no one was forcing the other parties to make the bet, so at what point does "let the buyer beware" come into effect? The bracelet bets are a grey area, but I personally think they are two separate issues, and despite being a bit scummy, I don't think BH multi-accounting should affect the bracelet bets.
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Originally posted by PSV58 View PostThis is a far more interesting thread
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...nners-1538509/
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Originally posted by Jam-Fly View PostIf the financial incentive is great enough, I'm sure there's plenty of people that would sell their account.
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No updates to that thread in a week. It seems NVG and Twoplustwo aren't interested in this side of it. The focus has been overwhelmingly on Hastings and the ethics and extent of cheating in high stakes since the outset.
That doesn't mean the sites don't care about that end of the breech of Ts and Cs of course it they are investigating the matter seriously."Worldly wisdom teaches that it is better for reputation to fail conventionally than to succeed unconventionally." - John Maynard Keynes
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Originally posted by PokerPiper View PostIn my opinion the ball stops with the operators for creating an environment and ecosystem that allows this to happen in the first place. Hastings wasn't the first and won't be the last. Noel wasn't the first and won't be the last. Until the industry at large gets its act together that is!
Site operators have procedures/protocols in place for situations like these and I'd hazard a guess it works a lot of the time but where there is a will there is a way and people will circumvent them, what do you think operators should be doing & possibly not doing?"you raise, i kill you" El Tren :{)
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Originally posted by tylerdurden94 View PostAgree to a certain extent that operators should be more open/upfront about these past/present/future allegations but there is only so much in which they can be culpable but it ultimately comes down to people being able to circumvent the rules/ethics and that is something no T&C's can hold up, imo it's ultimately down to the people who flaunt these rules.
Site operators have procedures/protocols in place for situations like these and I'd hazard a guess it works a lot of the time but where there is a will there is a way and people will circumvent them, what do you think operators should be doing & possibly not doing?
All just my opinion of course. I'm sure there will be lots of online Pro's who shudder at the thought of not having a HUD or the Identities of their prey.
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I get why the sites might allow these accounts go
"undetected". Laliberte in his various guises
significantly contributed to high stakes cash games
when Durr etc were generating publicity.
I get why Hastings might see
advantages to hiding his identity.
What I don't get is why somebody building a
high profile career in the gambling industry would
risk his reputation in this way. Particularly when he
appears intelligent and financially comfortable.
Getting why the others might act as they have
does not infer that I agree with their actions btw.Last edited by DeeBrown; 18-08-15, 22:07.
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Originally posted by Keane View PostIs there some argument against banning datamining and HUD software that doesn't occur to me? Seems an absolute no brainer
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Originally posted by shrapnel View PostI'd say that would be nigh on impossible. much easier to allow everyone to change their handles whenever they like rendering datamining and HUD use pretty limited
Unenforceable rules ironically only hurt honest players.
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Originally posted by shrapnel View PostI'd say that would be nigh on impossible. much easier to allow everyone to change their handles whenever they like rendering datamining and HUD use pretty limited
What is the relevance of the screen name in real terms ?
Why is it even necessary to display one ? its a relatively simple routine to generate a random image/avatar/label that is linked to the back-end user account.
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