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**dobby** · 20-11-14, 13:36

I thought the same re staff when I saw IPO and Spook clashing next year. The standard of dealer isn't that great anyway and this will make it worse. TD's up to now have always done a decent job imo but obviously this could slip with different tourneys having different rules.

Games clashing wouldn't really bother me because I rarely get to play more than 5 or 6 a year with work but after seeing the success of the Spook this year I was going to try and satt in next year but if it's clashing with the IPO, I'd rather just buy into the IPO.

I don't know what operator would be "at fault" if any. But I don't see why people can't work together. It's bound to make them more money in the long run if they get together and move dates around, Like Connie and JP did last year with their festivals. JP moved his back a week iirc? The way it should be.

**Lord Sir Banter** · 20-11-14, 13:44

Choices are nice Ray.

**RG67** · 20-11-14, 13:58

Originally posted by Lord Sir Business View Post

Choices are nice Ray.

Wow, that's deep.........Very profound comment

Thank you for your contribution to the hopefully long and eventually fruitful discussion that follows

**CHDad** · 20-11-14, 14:06

What is this poker you speak of?

**kakak1** · 20-11-14, 14:13

Originally posted by Lord Sir Business View Post

Choices are nice Ray.

Like Carlow, Kilkenny & Wexford all holding their monthly game on the same Sunday.

Might be nice but it's stupid imo.

**Flushdraw** · 20-11-14, 14:19

There always was, and there always will be clashing of big tournaments in Ireland. There could be a whole host of reasons why dates might not be available, but these things have to be planned a long time in advance so it's good that operators are thinking this far ahead to give the players plenty of choice.

Ideally, having everything on different weekend would be great, but choice is good for the players. It's never going to please everyone, but if clubs/operators feel that they aren't suffering because of it, then that's their choice and if they happy, then that's they way it's going to be.

I presume you're mostly ranting about the Spook and the IPO clashing in October next year. I don't even see this as a big deal anyway. One is a €560 buyin that got 144 runners last year, and the other is a €220 buyin that got 1656 runners. They don't really attract the same type of players, and even if they were on 2 consecutive weekends, what percentage do you think would be able to afford €780 to play both?

One will be full of qualifiers, with an affordable buyin and a shot at big money once you get through a minefield of players, while the other will be a far tougher field, with plenty of serious players and not much value, but still a chance at some big money for navigating a smaller, tougher field.

I think when you have 2 x big guarantee games clashing (e.g €120 - €50k etc), that's when the trouble starts and that's when operators should take note, but games with a big difference in the buyin, where one only needs 100 players to make the guarantee, i think we can live with both.

**RG67** · 20-11-14, 14:46

To be fair, the Spooktacular and the IPO (the ones that clash so far as you mentioned correctly) clashing although not ideal is not really my main concern because as you mentioned they are completely different games however, those games this year had quite a few of the same players in both (probably 80% of the field in the Spook played the IPO) so somebody is going to suffer without a doubt. As for poker dealers everywhere though it's a different story and choices will have to be made. For me the choice is simple enough although it's not a choice I want to have to make as I worked both events this year and enjoyed them both. My main concern is that in 2015 there will be even more than the 5 or 6 same type games and buy-ins clashing than there was in 2014. This should be avoided at all costs in my opinion or it will prove very costly to the operators.

**Lord Sir Banter** · 20-11-14, 14:50

Originally posted by RG67 View Post

Wow, that's deep.........Very profound comment

Thank you for your contribution to the hopefully long and eventually fruitful discussion that follows

Thanks Ray, I'm glad you got so much out of it.
If you have any further questions about life, fire ahead.

**Jam-Fly** · 20-11-14, 14:51

fwiw, I don't buy that the Spooktacular and IPO attract completely different sets of players. Obviously not everyone paying the IPO would play the Spooktacular, but I'd imagine a big percentage of the Spook field would play the IPO if given the opportunity.

**Flushdraw** · 20-11-14, 15:03

Originally posted by Jam-Fly View Post

fwiw, I don't buy that the Spooktacular and IPO attract completely different sets of players. Obviously not everyone paying the IPO would play the Spooktacular, but I'd imagine a big percentage of the Spook field would play the IPO if given the opportunity.

Yeah, i didn't word it that way at all.

They don't really attract the same type of players

I'm saying that from an operators POV, having one on the same time as the probably wasn't a huge factor in picking those particular dates. Obviously i agree with what you're saying, but i can see why for example, operators might want to choose a bank holiday weekend for a big game, despite it clashing with another game in the vicinity.

For as long as i've been on boards/IPB, someone starts a thread about a yearly calendar where most operators will try to accommodate players and pick a weekend where there's not much happened. JP is a top man when it comes to this, and Connie did his fair share of switching dates for games too. Clashes do, and will happen though, that's just the nature of the game.

**RG67** · 20-11-14, 15:03

Originally posted by Jam-Fly View Post

fwiw, I don't buy that the Spooktacular and IPO attract completely different sets of players. Obviously not everyone paying the IPO would play the Spooktacular, but I'd imagine a big percentage of the Spook field would play the IPO if given the opportunity.

Also, it is my opinion that a great many people would try and sat into the Spook as it too has the potential of becoming a massive game given the oppurtunity. It appears that that oppurtunity has been greatly reduced now though.

**The Gold Rush Card Club** · 20-11-14, 15:05

Agree with jam fly played both last year

**RG67** · 20-11-14, 15:09

Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post

Yeah, i didn't word it that way at all.

I'm saying that from an operators POV, having one on the same time as the probably wasn't a huge factor in picking those particular dates. Obviously i agree with what you're saying, but i can see why for example, operators might want to choose a bank holiday weekend for a big game, despite it clashing with another game in the vicinity.

For as long as i've been on boards/IPB, someone starts a thread about a yearly calendar where most operators will try to accommodate players and pick a weekend where there's not much happened. JP is a top man when it comes to this, and Connie did his fair share of switching dates for games too. Clashes do, and will happen though, that's just the nature of the game.

I absolutely agree that clashes have always and will always occur but it seems the amount of clashes is growing considerably and rapidly.

As a player in 2015 would you like to try and play both of these events and maybe play some satellites for both?? I know I would but now that they are on at the same time the chances are I will only concentrate on satellites for the event I decide is the one I want to play in.

**ViperEyeIRL** · 20-11-14, 15:24

If the Spooktacular clashes with the IPO next year it would probably make more runners by raising the buy in at 1.5k rather than leaving it at 560€, which is not much higher than the IPO and taking everything into consideration (level of play, shot at big money, etc) the IPO has to be the more attractive choice of the two.

Or another option if to run the Spooktacular on a nearby venue to the IPO making the Spooktacular a 2-Day higher buy in event (played sunday and monday BH) easily accessible to the players who travelled to play the IPO and busted on Day 1 for example.

**Jim11** · 20-11-14, 15:38

Ray I have 7 dates booked in for next year will announce them shortly on here but I know I will clash with something. I pulled a couple this year so I would not clash with anyone. It be good if dates for next year can be announced asap keep everyone happy.

**dobby** · 20-11-14, 15:55

Originally posted by Jim11 View Post

Ray I have 7 dates booked in for next year will announce them shortly on here but I know I will clash with something. I pulled a couple this year so I would not clash with anyone. It be good if dates for next year can be announced asap keep everyone happy.

Carfax already has the ball rolling in this regard.

Irish Poker Boards

http://www.irishpokerboards.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20101

**Ollie** · 20-11-14, 15:59

The October Bank Holiday is one of the biggest Poker weekends in Ireland (besides Easter/Xmas being the main weekends). So it's not surprising once PP announce the end of the IWF that this problem arose between these two events.

Personally I don't enjoy the IPO (hotel/location) and would far rather play the Spook event. This year I didn't play the IPO and opted to play the Spook instead. But I know already at this stage that the Spook event will be a limited field and the IPO will offer far better value. I'm not sure if holding the Spook event on the same weekend will make good business sense, but that's not my decision.

I wouldn't criticize Stephen for moving the IPO as he's taking advantage of a good weekend to hold a major event that wasn't available before, but I rather if he didn't.

Also the cash table action will be better at the IPO.

**NewApproach** · 20-11-14, 16:20

Personally I never understood why the IPO organisers didn't just put their event on the Oct Bank Holiday weekend years ago and took the IWF head on.

**Ollie** · 20-11-14, 16:41

Originally posted by NewApproach View Post

Personally I never understood why the IPO organisers didn't just put their event on the Oct Bank Holiday weekend years ago and took the IWF head on.

I think the IPO would have suffer more if they did but maybe not. Plus the IWF is the old date for the EPT Dublin and Irish Master before that, so it was a long establish date in the calendar, hence why I was shock that they gave it up so easy and didn't replace it with something decent.

**NewApproach** · 20-11-14, 16:48

Originally posted by Ollie View Post

I think the IPO would have suffer more if they did but maybe not.

Think I'd disagree tbh, the typical IPO player would be far more suited to having it on a bank holiday weekend. I'd be amazed if the players lost due to playing IWF instead was greater than the players gained due to having on the bank holiday weekend.

Originally posted by Ollie View Post

Plus the IWF is the old date for the EPT Dublin and Irish Master before that, so it was a long establish date in the calendar.

So?

Either way its a moot point as they didn't clash, and IWF is now done away with.

**nicnicnic** · 20-11-14, 18:15

Great thread title.

**RG67** · 20-11-14, 18:29

Glad you like it Nicky......it was a flip between that and World War Poker

**westlife** · 20-11-14, 18:30

If anyone believes that 2 major events, in the same county on the same weekend, is good for anyone, then I would have to disagree. The amount of Irish based people that played the spook and the IPO (If you include our 100 game on the Friday) would be 90% +.

The IPO organisers announced, without a confirmed venue or sponsor, their new date for next years IPO immediately after their event this year! This is something they have never done and was obviously a "big brother" move to attempt to take over the bank holiday weekend. They have had the same date on the calender for a decade and have changed it because they need "more days to make it a better game"

The two most important facts are this.
1 - If the IWF was still on the calender then the IPO would NEVER have changed their dates to the bank holiday Oct weekend.... The IWF was a bigger buyin that the spook... a lot less of a crossover of players than the spook. So I assume that it is because it is a new event run by smaller operators that they consider that it is fine to overlap!
2 - Not a phone call or correspondence to discuss the way this could be addressed with a happy solution for everybody. The IPO organisers obv consider that they can do anything they want to small operators. If the Irish Open was switched to Oct weekend, 2016... would the IPO organisers think this is ok? Somehow don't think so. As I said earlier, it is a big brother move on their behalf.

Irrespective of what names are behind each event (if any!), myself and the spook organisers will be meeting to discuss our plans for 2015 to ensure we maximise our event. As I said at the start... this dilutes everything for everybody..... players and organisers.

Would also be nice to have the Spooktacular game listed on the thread 'Calendar of Events 2015 (Ireland)'. The thread with the "purpose being to help organisers avoid clashing if possible, which gives players more options all round".....

**siucra1** · 20-11-14, 19:19

Originally posted by westlife View Post

If anyone believes that 2 major events, in the same county on the same weekend, is good for anyone, then I would have to disagree. The amount of Irish based people that played the spook and the IPO (If you include our 100 game on the Friday) would be 90% +.

The IPO organisers announced, without a confirmed venue or sponsor, their new date for next years IPO immediately after their event this year! This is something they have never done and was obviously a "big brother" move to attempt to take over the bank holiday weekend. They have had the same date on the calender for a decade and have changed it because they need "more days to make it a better game"

The two most important facts are this.
1 - If the IWF was still on the calender then the IPO would NEVER have changed their dates to the bank holiday Oct weekend.... The IWF was a bigger buyin that the spook... a lot less of a crossover of players than the spook. So I assume that it is because it is a new event run by smaller operators that they consider that it is fine to overlap!
2 - Not a phone call or correspondence to discuss the way this could be addressed with a happy solution for everybody. The IPO organisers obv consider that they can do anything they want to small operators. If the Irish Open was switched to Oct weekend, 2016... would the IPO organisers think this is ok? Somehow don't think so. As I said earlier, it is a big brother move on their behalf.

Irrespective of what names are behind each event (if any!), myself and the spook organisers will be meeting to discuss our plans for 2015 to ensure we maximise our event. As I said at the start... this dilutes everything for everybody..... players and organisers.

Would also be nice to have the Spooktacular game listed on the thread 'Calendar of Events 2015 (Ireland)'. The thread with the "purpose being to help organisers avoid clashing if possible, which gives players more options all round".....

OUCH

**carfax** · 20-11-14, 19:55

Just a couple of points I feel I should make:

1. Organisers have always had issues with dates clashing etc and we've always worked together to try to avoid it as much as possible. The original IPO was actually on the first weekend in October but we moved to the third weekend because Ladbrokes Killarney clashed with our dates (this seems like another lifetime ago now).
We didn't make a big deal about moving our dates as we don't own our event dates or have any God given right to them. We moved so as to give our event the best possible chance of success, so that players would have the choice of playing both events and so that staff would have the opportunity to work both events.

2. We knew well in advance about PP cancelling their partnership with the IWF this year but we didn't move our IPO 2014 dates because we wanted to give Paul O'Reilly (owner of the Winter Festival) every chance to re-organise and run the IWF without us jumping on the dates. There are many reasons that I didn't want the IPO to clash with the IWF in the past, the most important reason being that Paul O'Reilly helped out with the IPO in a huge way when it was first being established and I didn't have a bean.

3. The natural progression is for the IPO to move into the Bank Holiday weekend, its the only way we can continue to improve the event and offer the best possible value to players.

4. I have the height of respect for and get on really well with Fionn and the lads in Celtic (who originally posted the Spooktakular thread) and I explained all the reasons by phone to Fionn on the day we announced the IPO 2015 dates. Fionn understood the situation as far as I was concerned and I certainly didn't think there was any bad feeling. I believe Celtic are the biggest organisers in the country and although the IPO gets the biggest one-off field every year Celtic do an amazing job and attract the biggest fields to their tournaments all year round.

I believe there's plenty of dates in the calendar for us all to be able to scrape some sort of living out of running poker events but all this schoolyard stuff makes us all look bad to be honest.

Stephen.

**Ollie** · 20-11-14, 19:57

Originally posted by NewApproach View Post

Think I'd disagree tbh, the typical IPO player would be far more suited to having it on a bank holiday weekend. I'd be amazed if the players lost due to playing IWF instead was greater than the players gained due to having on the bank holiday weekend.

So?

Either way its a moot point as they didn't clash, and IWF is now done away with.

I 100% disagree.

**westlife** · 20-11-14, 20:49

Originally posted by carfax View Post

Just a couple of points I feel I should make:

1. Organisers have always had issues with dates clashing etc and we've always worked together to try to avoid it as much as possible. The original IPO was actually on the first weekend in October but we moved to the third weekend because Ladbrokes Killarney clashed with our dates (this seems like another lifetime ago now).
We didn't make a big deal about moving our dates as we don't own our event dates or have any God given right to them. We moved so as to give our event the best possible chance of success, so that players would have the choice of playing both events and so that staff would have the opportunity to work both events.

2. We knew well in advance about PP cancelling their partnership with the IWF this year but we didn't move our IPO 2014 dates because we wanted to give Paul O'Reilly (owner of the Winter Festival) every chance to re-organise and run the IWF without us jumping on the dates. There are many reasons that I didn't want the IPO to clash with the IWF in the past, the most important reason being that Paul O'Reilly helped out with the IPO in a huge way when it was first being established and I didn't have a bean.

3. The natural progression is for the IPO to move into the Bank Holiday weekend, its the only way we can continue to improve the event and offer the best possible value to players.

4. I have the height of respect for and get on really well with Fionn and the lads in Celtic (who originally posted the Spooktakular thread) and I explained all the reasons by phone to Fionn on the day we announced the IPO 2015 dates. Fionn understood the situation as far as I was concerned and I certainly didn't think there was any bad feeling. I believe Celtic are the biggest organisers in the country and although the IPO gets the biggest one-off field every year Celtic do an amazing job and attract the biggest fields to their tournaments all year round.

I believe there's plenty of dates in the calendar for us all to be able to scrape some sort of living out of running poker events but all this schoolyard stuff makes us all look bad to be honest.

Stephen.

Stephen, this is not about "bad feeling" and I did not post the thread. Its professional poker business. I responded to posts directly about the spook and IPO clashing. You state that it made sense for you to move your game , many years ago, so that a "clash" would not happen with Killarney... this is about 2 games 180 miles away from each other, yet you move a game into the same weekend as a game a stones throw away?? That's a little bit contradictory!

You also say that because of the respect you had for Paul O'Reilly that you did not jump on his dates.... But again, you contradict yourself. As far as you were concerned the event operator for the spook was Celtic Poker, who you have the highest respect for.... Yet had no problem putting a game on his weekend in Dublin? If you rang Fionn to gain his thoughts of the possibility of the move or discuss a way both games could work.. then i'm ill informed. If you rang him to tell him that the date has been moved irrespective then thats a different story

Anyway, it is what it is. This is not school yard stuff Stephen... it's an open poker forum with questions being asked........ and addressed as are the facts.

I said what i've had to say on the matter... good luck with your event!

**carfax** · 20-11-14, 21:01

Originally posted by westlife View Post

good luck with your event!

Cheers Phil.

**SatNav** · 20-11-14, 21:10

why not use the poll feature IPB has and ask players : spook or IPO, would be interesting.

**dobby** · 20-11-14, 21:14

Originally posted by SatNav View Post

why not use the poll feature IPB has and ask players : spook or IPO, would be interesting.

I don't think it would tbh. I think there's more rec players active here these days, or seems to be anyway, and the IPO would be the tourny of choice with the buy in imo.

**SatNav** · 20-11-14, 21:19

Originally posted by dobman88 View Post

I don't think it would tbh. I think there's more rec players active here these days, or seems to be anyway, and the IPO would be the tourny of choice with the buy in imo.

personally it would be the IPO for me, mainly for the habit, crack, buy in, meeting up with the same faces that I might not have seen in 12 months. I deffo think the spook should change the date of theirs 100%

**dobby** · 20-11-14, 21:23

Originally posted by SatNav View Post

personally it would be the IPO for me, mainly for the habit, crack, buy in, meeting up with the same faces that I might not have seen in 12 months. I deffo think the spook should change the date of theirs 100%

Same reasons for me. Had a great weekend whenever I've been able to get to the IPO. It's like a poor mans Irish Open

Not sure about changing dates. If organisers want to compete with each other that's their own choice. I'm sure players will decide for themselves.

**SatNav** · 20-11-14, 21:28

Spook is a new game that I presume the organizers want to be as regular as the IPO every year with Pp on board as IPO have Boyles on board. I think myself if its a failure this year that will be the end of it. I think for future success both should not be run the same weekend.
I personally wouldnt dream of heading to the spook over the IPO as I presume at least 50 to 100 others wouldnt either.

I was pissed off I couldnt attend the spook this year as it seems like a great weekend, bringing the Halloween theme on board too and would have hoped to attend another time. Halloween can kind of be any time now in late Oct so maybe look at the weekend before?

**CHDad** · 20-11-14, 21:33

Originally posted by SatNav View Post

Halloween can kind of be any time now in late Oct

Always the 31st Oct innit m8

**SatNav** · 20-11-14, 21:36

Originally posted by CHD View Post

Always the 31st Oct innit m8

yeah but you know yourself halloween is like xmas now , the whole month of october is geared around it. you could still do it two weekends before and get away with it.

**westlife** · 20-11-14, 22:11

Originally posted by SatNav View Post

personally it would be the IPO for me, mainly for the habit, crack, buy in, meeting up with the same faces that I might not have seen in 12 months. I deffo think the spook should change the date of theirs 100%

That is the best promotional campaign the spook will ever get!

**SatNav** · 20-11-14, 22:13

Originally posted by westlife View Post

That is the best promotional campaign the spook will ever get!

Had another blonde moment, took me a while ya fucker!

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