What is the alternative? What about people voting for the best person for the job, even when it doesn't align with whatever party they favour?
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post.... Does that mean that literally every poll was wrong though? Weird. Might wait a bit before accepting this one...
So, in England itself, enough voters wanted 'their own' government rather than one that was unduly influenced by 50 or so Scottish representatives.
Something similar happened here (2?) elections ago I think. FF , in the last week of the election, in a Sunday poll, looked like winning an overall majority, and the opposition conversation for the next three days concentrated on avoiding that. Sure enough, they didnt get it, but there is an argument there that rather than saying 'the poll was wrong', that in fact the poll was right and influenced people's behaviour.
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Postso in this analogy scoring goals is 'people voting for who they want to represent them' and winning matches is 'an arbitrary structure designed to stop this happening'. Okay that works.
(You score as many goals as you can to win the game)
If the rest of your constituency votes for someone else, then they represent you.
(However If the other team scores more they win - 3 points)
Then, within the group of representatives, they aim to organise a government between them that represents the majority of the representatives.
(Of all the teams in the league, the team with the most Points wins the league)
Plenty democratic (and analogous) imo.
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Regarding the arbitrary structure designed to stop this happening, no doubt that some gerrymandering has affected it previously. But any examples of constituencies where they've been carefully 'corralled'? This might back up your opinion. This might not.
A list system is a great idea, and I'd be all for incorporating some element of it. But I don't think that there's an awful lot wrong with how the current 'vote % => seat %' works. The Farage call for reform is spectacularly reactionary.Last edited by Emmet; 08-05-15, 10:22.
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Originally posted by Tar.Aldarion View PostWhat is the alternative? What about people voting for the best person for the job, even when it doesn't align with whatever party they favour?
In Ireland (and ours isn't perfect), we start off with requiring that as far as possible the electorate per Dail seat ratio is as close as practicable in each constituency.
We then vote 1 to X in order of our choice for the candidates on the ballot paper.
By having a combination of 3 to 5 seat constutuencies, and requiring candidates to reach a certain quota of votes cast to be elected, it means that there is a much wider number of parties/peoples elected. Not perfect, but still hugely preferable to UK system as evidenced by last nights outcomes.
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Originally posted by TomD View PostCan anyone explain Scotland? Vote no to independence in a referendum but votes massively for SNP in election.
Independence from the UK a bit of a 'cliff'. A larger SNP element in govt can ideally get some of what Independence could have achieved without the dangers/risks associated. (However, they needed Labour to take almost all of LD's seats)
Also, Labour toned down some of the Leftist policies, SNP snapped them up. Scotland is very Lefty afaik.
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Originally posted by TomD View PostCan anyone explain Scotland? Vote no to independence in a referendum but votes massively for SNP in election.
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Does it really matter if seats don't match the vote for smaller parties? If you're outside government your number of seats is fairly meaningless, and it's probably better to have a stable parlimentary system then one where small parties hold the balance of power and hold greater sway than they should based on their size.
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Guest
Great result for people who hate privacy and seeing paedophiles brought to justice. frightening that our nearest neighbour who have access to nuclear weapons is now governed by a man who can't even remember the name of the football team he pretends to support.
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Originally posted by TomD View PostCan anyone explain Scotland? Vote no to independence in a referendum but votes massively for SNP in election."I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson
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Riveting election stuff from across the water....yawnnnn
What about your man outing himself to having a few affairs on the radio the other day, what a plonker.This too shall pass.
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Originally posted by eamonhonda View PostDoes it look like paddy power saved you some money hotspur?
Please stick the bank Aston Villa to beat West Ham:
Elsewhere I am backing Benteke to score.
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Originally posted by oleras View PostRiveting election stuff from across the water....yawnnnn
What about your man outing himself to having a few affairs on the radio the other day, what a plonker.
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Originally posted by hotspur View Postairport, lol
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Originally posted by Lplated View PostGoing to take a flyer here. The polls were accurate up until yesterday morning. But as people went to vote, rather than act out their original intention as expressed over many many opinion polls, enough of them changed their minds in key constituencies to avoid the prospect of a Labour government with SNP partners/support.
So, in England itself, enough voters wanted 'their own' government rather than one that was unduly influenced by 50 or so Scottish representatives.
Something similar happened here (2?) elections ago I think. FF , in the last week of the election, in a Sunday poll, looked like winning an overall majority, and the opposition conversation for the next three days concentrated on avoiding that. Sure enough, they didnt get it, but there is an argument there that rather than saying 'the poll was wrong', that in fact the poll was right and influenced people's behaviour.
The prospect of Sinn Fein being in power is the closest we have to an SNP situation here but they are unlikely to be in that position in the run up to the next election.
I posted a while back that Enda to be next Taoiseach at 4/6 was free money , the 4/11 he is now is still value as I think it will be 1/5 or 1/6.
Mickey Martin and Adams are next two in the betting Ffs. The only way Enda is not Taoiseach is if the only numbers that add up mean Fine Gael / Fianna Fáil have to go in together and he stands down to let Leo / Coveney take over.
With labour on its " unwinding" of pay reductions and as something for everyone in the audience budget to come I think they might just scrape enough seats for a majority. Having a nibble at 4/1.
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Originally posted by Emmet View PostYou vote for your member of parliament to represent your constituency.
(You score as many goals as you can to win the game)
If the rest of your constituency votes for someone else, then they represent you.
(However If the other team scores more they win - 3 points)
Then, within the group of representatives, they aim to organise a government between them that represents the majority of the representatives.
(Of all the teams in the league, the team with the most Points wins the league)
Plenty democratic (and analogous) imo.
To descirbe the UK election outcome as 'democratic', means you confine your understanding of the word to simply meaning 'everyone can have a vote'. While that is how it is generally expressed, and understood, it misses the point that it is inherently implicit that 'having a vote' actually counts for something.
More importantly, 'having a vote' in one part of the country should roughly equal 'having a vote' in another. As mentioned, 30k vote average to elect a SNP member contrasted with 4 million average to elect a UKIP member does not achieve that.
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Originally posted by Denny Crane View PostDoes it really matter if seats don't match the vote for smaller parties? If you're outside government your number of seats is fairly meaningless, and it's probably better to have a stable parlimentary system then one where small parties hold the balance of power and hold greater sway than they should based on their size.
But that isn't the problem. The problem is that as between two parties, neither of whom 'won' (i.e. they will both be outside government), the seats/vote discrepency is massive.
In other words, if the seats/votes ratio isn't important in your electoral system, then it should be equally unimportant for all particpants.
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Originally posted by Lplated View PostThat is a choice of system, i.e. whether the seats/votes ratio counts as a consideration, and the extent that it does.
But that isn't the problem. The problem is that as between two parties, neither of whom 'won' (i.e. they will both be outside government), the seats/vote discrepency is massive.
In other words, if the seats/votes ratio isn't important in your electoral system, then it should be equally unimportant for all particpants.
It is something that is liable to happen under any system when one regional party focuses on a small subset of winnable seats whilst another puts up a candidate in every single constituency.
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The Waterboys live in Minnesota is on loop for i dont know how long but its a cracking show, they do Purple Rain as an encore and its outstanding, and proably the best version of Dont Bang The Drum i have heard yet.
Setlist here.
Do yourself a favor maybe later with a few beers in hand.This too shall pass.
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Originally posted by AndyFatBastard View PostNail -> Head:
Went back to bed.X can be anything, any number, that is what’s CRAZY about X.
Because X doesn’t roll like that, because X can’t be pinned down!
$ Free Travel Credit with Airbnb $
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Originally posted by Jibzzzz View PostBooked Flights for UFC Glasgow there. Only Joe Duffy fight annouced so far, Gambooooooool!
Flights €45 return, weekend after McGregor fight, eases the pain of not going to that, ever so slightly.
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Originally posted by rounders123 View PostBeing a 'fight night' whats the chances of Glasgow main being a 2-3am jobbie?
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Originally posted by Tar.Aldarion View PostThink I'll try and find wild garlic in phoenix park at the weekend. There is also a foraging course on there, think i could shadow them.
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There is water everywhere, that's deep man. They are probably right regarding general conditions.
However I already know it's in there, green gold! This ain't mah first foragin'. (vegans can also commune with plants)Last edited by Tar.Aldarion; 08-05-15, 16:41.
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Thai green chicken curry, boiled riceX can be anything, any number, that is what’s CRAZY about X.
Because X doesn’t roll like that, because X can’t be pinned down!
$ Free Travel Credit with Airbnb $
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Originally posted by oleras View Post
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Originally posted by oleras View PostMet Éireann really take the piss.
A rain warning ? 20 mins ago ?
Talk about a Dublin centric weather service, its has been pissing for 24 hours here in Limerick. never seen as much water in the garden.
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Originally posted by oleras View PostWhile im on a rant...
Hook always does it...forgets to give out the competition winner, so bloody annoying after taking the time to enter those competitions...ughhh
Slight chance i missed it, but doubtful.
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