Originally posted by Denny Crane
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View PostTwo (democratically elected) governments, two nations. One conflict. One agreed to stop the conflict, one decided not to. It's not a hard question to answer.
Hamas are a terrorist organisation absolutely. They ignore and or break ceasefires as it suits them, knowing it will provoke retaliation from Israel. But this does not in any way legitimise the disproportionate and indescriminate nature of the retaliation. The fact that Hamas are an evil, blood thirsty bunch of bastards in no way makes it ok to shell a civilian population for weeks on end, killing hundreds (maybe 1000s now) of innocent non combatants.
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Originally posted by dazzler View PostYou keep arguing as though the folks on here who are appalled by israels actions think hamas are the greatest thing since sliced bread. You also appear to think that guilt in this conflict is binary, and that because Hamas are undoubtedly a guilty party, it follows that Israel's every action is entirely justifiable.
Hamas are a terrorist organisation absolutely. They ignore and or break ceasefires as it suits them, knowing it will provoke retaliation from Israel. But this does not in any way legitimise the disproportionate and indescriminate nature of the retaliation. The fact that Hamas are an evil, blood thirsty bunch of bastards in no way makes it ok to shell a civilian population for weeks on end, killing hundreds (maybe 1000s now) of innocent non combatants.This may or may not be an original thought of my own.
All efforts were made to make this thought original but with the abundance of thoughts in the world the originality of this thought cannot be guaranteed.
The author is not liable for any issue arising from the platitudinous nature of this post.
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View PostUnless I'm not actually going there and misread the booking, then you definitely can go direct on Ryanair
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Originally posted by rounders123 View Postok right. I searched by skyscanner and all filghts were a turnover in France. Those skyscanner bastards are holding back on me obv.
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Originally posted by rounders123 View PostFlight booking is the most tilting thing ever. Just as you think your done they throw some shit in there as if to purposely thwart you.
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Originally posted by dazzler View PostYou keep arguing as though the folks on here who are appalled by israels actions think hamas are the greatest thing since sliced bread. You also appear to think that guilt in this conflict is binary, and that because Hamas are undoubtedly a guilty party,
Hamas are a truly horrible organisation, it's true. They are also cowards - hiding in a densely populated area and emerging at night to fire missiles against civilian targets. They're Islamic fundamentalist lunatics with little or no official support in the Arab world (the army takeover in Egypt removed their lifeline for weaponry) and their closest ideological brothers are the maniacs of Isis who enjoy nothing more than a spot of light beheading for their evening entertainment.
However. They are the elected government of Gaza.
Which of course causes everyone a problem - Israel, the US, the EU but most of all, the Gazans themselves. The Germans voted Hitler into power and the Gazans have done likewise with Hamas. What we are seeing now is partially the consequences of that decision. Hamas know exactly what will happen when they launch barrages of rockets at Israeli population centres - it's not like we haven't been here before. Yet they continue to provoke an Israeli response - knowing exactly what that response will be and the cost to Gaza.
Onto the response. Israel is surrounded by countries that hate it. Every single neighbour of Israel has declared war on it previously and has tried to wipe it off the face of the map. Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iran (via its proxy army in South Lebanon). The Israelis have in response developed a doctrine that says any attack on them will be met with overwhelming force - we have seen several historical precedents of this. In the current conflict (started, let us remember by Hamas and continuing due to the rejection of a ceasefire by Hamas), we see this doctrine at work.
There are civilian casualties - this is undeniable. Just as there are civilian casualties in all wars. Churchill is remembered as one of the greatest leaders of all time, the champion of western civilisation. Yet, in 1944-45, he continued to send fleets of heavy bombers against German population centres for no militarily-justifiable reason other than to kill and terrorise unarmed civilians. Israel's response is much milder than Churchill's (thirty thousand died in one night of bombing in Hamburg) and they do make efforts to avoid casualties.
Israel has a right to self-defence, it has made it clear it will exercise that right. Given the decision of Hamas to start and then prolong a military campaign against Israel, plus the physical topography of Gaza itself, civilian casualties are inevitable. The elected government of Gaza chose to start a war, knowing exactly what the consequences would be. The majority of the blame rests with them. If people want to protest civilian deaths in Gaza, they should at the very least divide their time equally between Israeli embassies and Palestinian legations.
Originally posted by dazzler View Postit follows that Israel's every action is entirely justifiable.
I've already said repeatedly that the settlement activity in the West Bank is outrageous and that Israel should dismantle all settler colonies there. By force if necessary - which is what they did in Gaza ten years ago. Unfortunately, the internal political calculus in Israel means Netanyahu is a slave to the hardliners and, if anything, settlement activity will only increase in the near future. This is totally unjustifiable under any reading of history or morality
The Sharon invasion of Lebanon in 1982 was also unjustifiable - especially what happened at Shatila. Undoubtedly a war crime that should have been prosecuted. In fact, most of Israel's worst actions have taken place on Lebanese territory. Including the killing of Irish UN peacekeepers.
Any lasting settlement must be based on the 1967 borders. Again, you won't find many Likud apologists arguing that so I hope I can establish some bona fides here as not having an entirely partisan agenda. Unfortunately, nuance is not a big word in some people's personal lexicons.
Originally posted by dazzler View PostHamas are a terrorist organisation absolutely. They ignore and or break ceasefires as it suits them, knowing it will provoke retaliation from Israel.
Originally posted by dazzler View PostBut this does not in any way legitimise the disproportionate and indescriminate nature of the retaliation. The fact that Hamas are an evil, blood thirsty bunch of bastards in no way makes it ok to shell a civilian population for weeks on end, killing hundreds (maybe 1000s now) of innocent non combatants.
The other bugbear I have is the one-sided nature of the media coverage and a particular subsection of our population that will blindly criticise Israel, no matter what.
Who has killed the most Palestinians in the last couple of years? Not Israel, that's for damn sure - the correct answer is actually Syria (number two on the list is actually Palestine itself). Strangely enough, we don't see any protests about that (or the 150,000 - 150 times the number in Gaza - civilians murdered in Syria). We don't see any protests outside the Russian embassy either - yet the Russians murdered 300 people, many kids included, just last week. The Americans have killed thousands of civilians in Afghanistan and northern Pakistan. No protests. Why is this? I don't have the answer.
Israel is not perfect, no country is. It does however have a right to existence and a right to defence when attacked. I support those rights."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Lets blame the Brits.
Its kinda their fault anyway.This may or may not be an original thought of my own.
All efforts were made to make this thought original but with the abundance of thoughts in the world the originality of this thought cannot be guaranteed.
The author is not liable for any issue arising from the platitudinous nature of this post.
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post...
The other bugbear I have is the one-sided nature of the media coverage ...Turning millions into thousands
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Originally posted by Strewelpeter View PostYou were doing well till that point Israeli's have a ridiculous advantage in the way they deploy their enormous and highly professional media and PR organisation. Just one more aspect where the gargantuan disparity in power shows."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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RD3, how much damage do you think Hamas can really do given the current state of play?This may or may not be an original thought of my own.
All efforts were made to make this thought original but with the abundance of thoughts in the world the originality of this thought cannot be guaranteed.
The author is not liable for any issue arising from the platitudinous nature of this post.
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Originally posted by Theresa View PostRD3, how much damage do you think Hamas can really do given the current state of play?
Although Arafat was a corrupt idiot who threw away a perfectly good deal, at least he dealt in some semblance of normal thinking. Hamas are off the charts. Even the Iranians wouldn't touch them with a bargepole."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View PostTo Israel or to themselves? I think the biggest danger is not Gaza (Hamas will run out of weaponry, there will be a ceasefire, Hamas will rearm, provoke a conflict again and we'll be at this pointless argument again - for a fourth time). No, the biggest danger is Hamas-ification of the West Bank. You can see it in the new calls for a Third Intifada.
Although Arafat was a corrupt idiot who threw away a perfectly good deal, at least he dealt in some semblance of normal thinking. Hamas are off the charts. Even the Iranians wouldn't touch them with a bargepole.
Right now, Israel is doing far more damage to Israel than Hamas ever could.
Treat them like mosquitos. Annoying, sometimes dangerous but ultimately easy to defend against. Its going to take a politician with serious balls to take a step back and give Gaza the extended peace time it needs to finally rid itself of Hamas.This may or may not be an original thought of my own.
All efforts were made to make this thought original but with the abundance of thoughts in the world the originality of this thought cannot be guaranteed.
The author is not liable for any issue arising from the platitudinous nature of this post.
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Originally posted by Theresa View Postgive Gaza the extended peace time it needs to finally rid itself of Hamas.
Seems like wishful thinking to me."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Denny, if you are about, have you tried Pho Saigon yet?
I'll prob be going later in the week if you wanna grab a bowl. You're down IFSC direction aren't you?This may or may not be an original thought of my own.
All efforts were made to make this thought original but with the abundance of thoughts in the world the originality of this thought cannot be guaranteed.
The author is not liable for any issue arising from the platitudinous nature of this post.
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Originally posted by Rasher View PostI think it was Hitchhiker who previously mentioned a sat nav app for android that will work without using data? If you could point me in the right direction it would be much appreciated? (I'm very new to android!!)Originally posted by Tar.Aldarion View PostGPS in general doesn't use data. However you need data to download maps if you dont have them on your phone alreadyOfficial Head Marshall of Waterford Gay Pride Festival 2015
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View PostWelcome back sir! Apologies we're not there with a placard
Finished the last GOT book, 2017 before the next one comes out? Dafuq?Official Head Marshall of Waterford Gay Pride Festival 2015
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See a lot of talk of Snapchat. I've been on it a while and mostly people seem to send pictures of meals/drinks at night and their feet/television sets the following morning. Yet to see a positive reason for keeping it.You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by Kayroo View PostSee a lot of talk of Snapchat. I've been on it a while and mostly people seem to send pictures of meals/drinks at night and their feet/television sets the following morning. Yet to see a positive reason for keeping it.
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View PostThere are civilian casualties - this is undeniable. Just as there are civilian casualties in all wars. Churchill is remembered as one of the greatest leaders of all time, the champion of western civilisation. Yet, in 1944-45, he continued to send fleets of heavy bombers against German population centres for no militarily-justifiable reason other than to kill and terrorise unarmed civilians. Israel's response is much milder than Churchill's (thirty thousand died in one night of bombing in Hamburg) and they do make efforts to avoid casualties.
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Originally posted by hotspur View PostThe rarely attempted sophisticated reverse Godwin gambit. Wp sir, wp.You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by Michael View PostThe time has finally come for my custody court case tomorrow, fairly nervous now, would any one know are these likely to be adjourned?The sport that unites Catholic, Protestant and dissenter has had its day of days. Pity anybody who can't enjoy it. Some day. Gerry Thornley 23/3/09
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Originally posted by Michael View PostYeah suppose will find out in morning, tbh its first time its on and the other person more than likely won't show up so probably willThe sport that unites Catholic, Protestant and dissenter has had its day of days. Pity anybody who can't enjoy it. Some day. Gerry Thornley 23/3/09
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Originally posted by KevIRL View PostWas at the scarecrow festival today in Durrow, on for another week or so, well worth a visit if yer in the surrounding areas.
Many years ago i wrote a script for a short film called 'Scarecrow' partly based on this song (Hammer-sytle chiiler was what i think i was aiming for) and just 'get' scarecrows .
Scarecrows offer a decent amount of semi-occultish weirdness for me.
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People say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
Get a shiny metal Revolut card! And a free tenner!
https://revolut.com/referral/jamesb8!G10D21
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snapchats is so last year, it's for old cunts.
It's all about yo! now.X can be anything, any number, that is what’s CRAZY about X.
Because X doesn’t roll like that, because X can’t be pinned down!
$ Free Travel Credit with Airbnb $
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Originally posted by Kayroo View PostSee a lot of talk of Snapchat. I've been on it a while and mostly people seem to send pictures of meals/drinks at night and their feet/television sets the following morning. Yet to see a positive reason for keeping it.Originally posted by Hatedajacks View PostIf you were single you would understand.
Out on the lash with Sirtoyou for the night. Legend supremo. Absolutely buckled and now railing him in drunken cash in the macau(I'm not allowed thank fuck!)Redbet at the Dublin Poker Invasion FTW
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