Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - BabyforV

[Guest]

Think teacher training has come on miles (or kilometres as a modern teacher would refer to it) since we were doing our stuff though.

How could it be 30 years ago for you?!

I done the leaving 18 years ago many on the teachers are still there close to retirement age.
I cant see how all of a sudden disinterested poor teachers suddenly got ressurected into being good at the job coming to retirement.
My neighbour i remember nice guy came into our 5th year irish class and spouted 3 reasons lads i do this job June july and august
after a poor oral test { This isent pass irish -this is fail irish}

[ComradeCollie]

Think teacher training has come on miles (or kilometres as a modern teacher would refer to it) since we were doing our stuff though.

How could it be 30 years ago for you?!

Yeah, twas 29 years ago. Was always better at proper maths, actual arithmetic has been dodgy

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[LuckyLloyd]

PSV making a late run at 'troll of the year'.

Lacking in subtlety though. Needs more work.

Ah yeah.

He disagrees with our position therefore he's trolling / arguing like a child / a fascist. Delete as appropriate. Solid.

[Opr]

Russell Howard's Good News is very enjoyable. It's a half an hour look at the weeks news done in a comedic way in a very similar vein to John Oliver's show on HBO only more British centric. Not as good obviously but still well worth a watch.

Opr

[LuckyLloyd]

What do they want? Complete abolition and 'free' water for all?

Would that be total victory?

I already pay for water.

Drop the current charges idea. Wind up Irish water. Go back to the drawing board. Come back with a better worked through idea.

[LuckyLloyd]

Watching Newsnight for the first time in a long time. Shakey! Poor quality reporting and weak presentation. Was it always this bad when Paxman was out of the office?

[Guest]

PSV making a late run at 'troll of the year'.

Lacking in subtlety though. Needs more work.

That would take pride of place in my trophy cabinet but wasn't trolling earlier

[6starpool]

Loved 'The Imitation Game', excellent story told in an engaging way.

[Mellor]

The latest gig of Anonymous, is to unveil as many members of the KKK as possible. It really is a bad idea getting on the wrong side of them!

http://aattp.org/anonymous-unmasks-r...s-imagesvideo/

It's pretty worthwile exercise.
Hoipefully something comes of it. But you don't really need to be an elite hacker to confirm that the guy with SS tattoos is in the KKK.
Most of these are probably in back ass parts of america where the local sheriff is the buddies with the grandmaster.

Oh, seems to be same here. 19 years* since leaving. Where does the time go? More years since leaving college than your age when you left. That milestone should be something celebratory.


*11 more years in further education incl postdoc, for a grand total of 8 productive years out of 37. With the productivity aspect of even those 8 being debatable.

You are considerable older than I imagined.
I'm not sure how you should take that. I'm not even sure how I mean it.

[gorrrr72]

It's pretty worthwile exercise.
Hoipefully something comes of it. But you don't really need to be an elite hacker to confirm that the guy with SS tattoos is in the KKK.
Most of these are probably in back ass parts of america where the local sheriff is the buddies with the grandmaster.



You are considerable older than I imagined.
I'm not sure how you should take that. I'm not even sure how I mean it.

fyp

[6starpool]

The Junior Cert is an irrelevance nowadays. Any effort to reform it and make the education system less rigid and more useful is to be applauded. I don't know the ins and outs of objections (except that they are objecting to marking more stuff themselves, but I assume that's not the entirety of the objections) but I'd hope they are in the interests of better reform which is needed.

[Mellor]

fyp

True dat

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[Lazare]

I don't know where you're getting these figures from. 15% is standard American tipping because they get paid about $3 an hour. Standard in Ireland is about 10% as staff get over 8 euro an hour minimum and often quite a bit more. I'd pay about 12.5% if service was excellent and 15% if it was exceptional and I had an unforgettable experience in a restaraunt

You misspelled restaurant dude.

[Guest]

The Junior Cert is an irrelevance nowadays. Any effort to reform it and make the education system less rigid and more useful is to be applauded. I don't know the ins and outs of objections (except that they are objecting to marking more stuff themselves, but I assume that's not the entirety of the objections) but I'd hope they are in the interests of better reform which is needed.

As far as I know the marking is the big objection, teachers get enough guff off of parents without having to deal with being leant on to bump up little fiachras grades or getting the head chewed off them in the local supermarket for failing someone else's call of duty and monster energy addled little brat.
BTW anyone planning a wedding never sit 2 teachers at the same table unless you want the other guests to receive an education on Haddington road

[Lord Sir Banter]

Nightcrawler is the best movie I've seen since the last best movie I've seen which I can't recall.

8/8 - Check it out.

[6starpool]

As far as I know the marking is the big objection, teachers get enough guff off of parents without having to deal with being leant on to bump up little fiachras grades or getting the head chewed off them in the local supermarket for failing someone else's call of duty and monster energy addled little brat.
BTW anyone planning a wedding never sit 2 teachers at the same table unless you want the other guests to receive an education on Haddington road

Well in that case it's ridiculous. The junior cert is about as useful a qualification as a pioneer certificate (or whatever it's called). Whingers moaning about having to do an extra bit of work in a redesigned system to help the students trying to bring the whole thing down.

Typical unionised shite.

[Lazare]

What's the issue with getting school A to grade school B's students and vice versa?

[Guest]

Well in that case it's ridiculous. The junior cert is about as useful a qualification as a pioneer certificate (or whatever it's called). Whingers moaning about having to do an extra bit of work in a redesigned system to help the students trying to bring the whole thing down.

Typical unionised shite.

Have you not been listening every teacher has gone into education to make the world a better place.
Every strike seems to be for the students benefit.
Its a tough job ill admit but has very good perks too.
Unfirable the super long holidays being two.

[The Situation]

This getting sick reviews in the US, looks very trippy from the trailer. Not released to Jan here though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJfLoE6hanc

[6starpool]

This getting sick reviews in the US, looks very trippy from the trailer. Not released to Jan here though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJfLoE6hanc

I saw a trailer for this tonight at the cinema, it looked brilliant.

[DeadParrot]

Ship the new job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

amateur hour dude

Already been done m8

a quite impressive amount of alts here

[Jam-Fly]

The Junior Cert's primary function is to serve as preparation for the Leaving Cert. That should be the main factor in any decision making.

The argument against the state exam seems to be: 3 years of work comes down to one day and one exam, all the work that has gone in during the three years is irrelevant if you have a bad day on this one day

The argument against the continuous assessment as assessed by teachers seems to be: there will be bias in marking (favourite students, troublesome students, pressure from other areas to give good grades etc)


If it has to be one or the other, I actually prefer keeping it the way it is (assuming the LC remains the same). The main reason being it gives good preparation for the LC, but I also do think state exams should be standardized and totally unbias in marking. I assume combining both ideas (say 30% for continuous assessment graded by teachers along with the 70% state exam as usual) is being considered?

[hotspur]

Loved 'The Imitation Game', excellent story told in an engaging way.

Caught it tonight and can wholeheartedly +1 that.

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[Jam-Fly]

There's absolutely no valid reason to think that state exams at 15 are a good idea, except that its always been this way. Doing an exam at 15 doesn't in any way effectively help you do an exam at 18. Doing prep exams at 17, or 17.5, or 17.75 might. Exam practice works best close to the event, not three years previously.

the procedure of the exam taking is the exact same in the JC and the LC (external invigilators, ID numbers on the desk etc). Experiencing an official state exam prior to the LC is an advantage imo. I don't think pres or mocks are remotely the same. It gives you an experience of the procedure and the pressure (for the want of a better word) of a state exam, which will stand to you when you do the Leaving Cert.

Doing a state exam similar to the Junior Cert is not practical at 17 years old due to curriculum size issues. At the time, the JC is a 'big deal'. I think the JC has to be seen as a big deal for students to get the full experience and benefit in preparation for the Leaving Cert.


I think the whole education system could do with being overhauled, and in this overhaul, both the JC and LC would change. However, it seems for the foreseeable future, the LC will remain the same. Like it or not, parents and students put a big weight into the LC (and reasonably so), so while the LC system (and the CAO etc) remains the same, I think the current JC system has to serve as preparation for the LC - and the new proposed continuous assessment system does not really serve as LC preparation.

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[Jam-Fly]

Think you're assigning too much power to the status quo. A state exam at 15 just isn't preparation for an exam three years later. Like, I'd be fairly certain that has never been shown by any studies to be the best approach. The new system is about testing junior cycle learning effectively for real learning, rather than ruining the learning by condensing the learning objective to being able to do well on a two hour exam.

The LC prep is a separate issue, that can be fixed imo through better exam prep, more formal mocks. But we shouldn't ruin kids learning in their first three years by making it a trial run for another exam.

I guess the question is, what do students want to get out of their secondary school experience. Unfortunately imo, the answer to that for most students would probably be 'enough points for the course I want to do at University'. If that's the focus, I think the JC acting as prep for the LC (which basically 100% dictates if you get your college course) is perfectly fine.

However, I agree that secondary school should be about actually learning and developing. The LC itself is the biggest obstacle to this imo, the LC course in most subjects rewards learning things off and exam technique more than anything.


I suppose in my view, I'd like to see the LC and JC (or just the whole education system as a whole) revamped. It can be argued that these JC changes are the first step in doing that. However if I'm being honest, I think those students that end up doing the 'new JC' and 'old LC' are a slight disadvantage to those doing either the 'new JC' and 'new LC' or the 'old JC' and 'old LC'. I guess changing something like the education system takes time and can't be done overnight and this is just the first step. Short term, I think students will suffer (not to any huge degree mind), but if it's all part of the bigger plan then I can understand it.


All of this doesn't address the teachers marking their own students work, bias, pressure to mark well etc either. There has to be a fairly simple solution to this though - external marking of continuous assessment can't be that difficult to orchestrate for example?

[Lord Sir Banter]

I'm confident that if my j.c and l.c were evening kickoff s rather than 9:00 a.m starts to the day, that I would have scored a not insignificant percentage better.

[Jam-Fly]

I'm confident that if my j.c and l.c were evening kockoffs rsther than 9:00 a.m starts to the day, that I would have scored a not insignificant percentage better.

any craic?

[LuckyLloyd]

Ho Hu! Daly in fine fettle on VB last night. To paraphrase:

How can anyone take a single world this govt say seriously or believe a single thing they tell us, ref this sham of a charge?

First, it was absolutely essential they had pps numbers, otherwise the system couldn't work. (now it isn't)

Secondly, it was absolutely essential they set the tariffs the rate they were, otherwise the system wouldn't work (now it isnt)

Then it wasn't necessary to change the legislation to ensure Irish Water would always remain in public hands, and could never be sold (now it is)

Probably - when Daly is riffing off you with ease it's proof that you're wrong.

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[Lplated]

Ho Hu! Daly in fine fettle on VB last night. To paraphrase:



Probably - when Daly is riffing off you with ease it's proof that you're wrong.

Problem for Daly, Murphy and to lesser extent SF - they needed to lose this fight so they could win the next one, ie the election.

to minimise loses all the establishment have to do is sit quiet for eighteen months, whereas for a full scale revolution the protest parties needed to get increasing numbers of voters increasingly wound up.

[Lplated]

Oh that insightful scamp. Let's have today as a water free day. It's just so fcking boring.

according to the Minister, if we do it right every day can be a water free day.

[LuckyLloyd]

Oh that insightful scamp. Let's have today as a water free day. It's just so fcking boring.

Well I suppose it was fun when we were talking down to freemen and the likes.

[Guest]

Oh that insightful scamp. Let's have today as a water free day. It's just so fcking boring.

Agreed, time to move on to a safer subject so we can have a bbv circle jerk day, maybe how there would be no wars if there was no religion, how evil bread is or how we need to just do everything like some bunch of eurotrash freaks and everything will be OK.

[Guest]

Or we could go with the always dependable legalise drugs-rub subsequent taxation money on each others titties-build a perpetual energy power station out of hemp one

[Raoul Duke III]

Problem for Daly, Murphy and to lesser extent SF - they needed to lose this fight so they could win the next one, ie the election.

to minimise loses all the establishment have to do is sit quiet for eighteen months, whereas for a full scale revolution the protest parties needed to get increasing numbers of voters increasingly wound up.

Events, dear boy, events.

If the economy continues on the current path, then the next goverment is a guaranteed FG+X (either Lab, FF or possibly some right-ish Indos). But if some form of 'events' result in a serious dip, then all bets are off. Not that unlikely either given the current sogginess in Euroland.

In a 160 seat next Dail, say you had:

50 FG
30 FF
5 LAB
35 SF
40 assorted headers

mix those numbers around a bit and there's scope for all sorts.

[Lazare]

Feck the Newlands upgrade anyway, how the hell am I supposed to catch up with the bbv in the mornings.

Seriously though, wow.

[Guest]

Events, dear boy, events.

If the economy continues on the current path, then the next goverment is a guaranteed FG+X (either Lab, FF or possibly some right-ish Indos). But if some form of 'events' result in a serious dip, then all bets are off. Not that unlikely either given the current sogginess in Euroland.

In a 160 seat next Dail, say you had:

50 FG
30 FF
5 LAB
35 SF
40 assorted headers

mix those numbers around a bit and there's scope for all sorts.

Next election results day is going to make for some great schadenfreude watching some of the family seat lifers struggle to contain their disgust as some single issue looper scoops their gravy

[LuckyLloyd]

That, plus maybe the ability to piss in the water supply of the majority who thought it reasonable (if reluctantly so) to pay for water in an environmentally conscious way.

By the by, if the majority wanted this thing, why didn't they register with IW?

[Guest]

By the by, if the majority wanted this thing, why didn't they register with IW?

Don't forget that even amongst the people who registered, theres people like me who were a bit apathetic and bought into the threats about not getting allowances, who sent it off for a an easy life.registration doesn't mean you support it

[LuckyLloyd]

Don't forget that even amongst the people who registered, theres people like me who were a bit apathetic and bought into the threats about not getting allowances, who sent it off for a an easy life.registration doesn't mean you support it

True enough, but the government would have been in a much better position if this apparent majority in favour of IW had filled in their registration packs and returned them. I bet FG and Labour would have killed for a 70% uptake. Solid then. Instead we had ~42% and deadline extensions despite that 42% including - as you rightly point out - those against the charges.

[ArmaniJeans]

Well I suppose it was fun when we were talking down to freemen and the likes.

Have we stopped laughing at 'no consent, no contract' and 'illegal action by the provisional 1923 government'? Cause I still think they are generally funny (though a couple of deranged nuts to be wary of) and like to laugh at them. And I don't think any of that freeman stuff actually led to the anti victory.

By the by, if the majority wanted this thing, why didn't they register with IW?

I'd have thought peoples staggering laziness and procrastination when it comes to form filling has to be a part of it.
Also an element of not wanting to be the chump who makes a payment when everyone else avoids paying.

[LuckyLloyd]

The freemen stuff is lol and nothing related to the climb down, my point that this seemed to be fun for many here until the worm turned as it were.

As for the second point, this has been huge news for weeks now. Surely the silent majority apparebtly in favour would have countered the protests by returning their form?

[Denny Crane]

meters have been installed nationwide and people are going to be paying water charges. If anything this is a climb down from the "don't register don't pay crowd"

[Tar.Aldarion]

I guess the question is, what do students want to get out of their secondary school experience. Unfortunately imo, the answer to that for most students would probably be 'enough points for the course I want to do at University'.

I think this then extends to university, just wanting to get enough points to get their particular grade, the whole way people think about these things has to be changed, I am guilty of it myself. Do a LC and do well in your degree and you can still be outclassed by students doing masters
in other countries that I've seen, due to them actually learning better in undergrad. I mean they dont have past exam papers to look at, classes beforehand on what is on the exam etc, are left on their own to just know everything from the course and coursebooks, and they do.

Over here a lecturer asks a question and people are reluctant to answer, yet my experience elsewhere has been people frothing at the mouth to answer and debate the answers...and at the break between lectures asking lecturers more questions in a queue. Here there is a propensity between students to joke about how they dont even know what is going on in class and hope to get by, when are we going for a pint?
I don't know if this extends beyond sciences and engineering as they are my subjects. The point is to change people away from chasing points towards learning better. JC was like teh LC in taht you chased points, but you should be in a more learning orientated mode at that stage of your life.

By the by, if the majority wanted this thing, why didn't they register with IW?

Fairly simply most people leave things to the last minute, also most people I know didn't even get a pack yet, I didn't.

[MegaSin]

Or we could go with the always dependable legalise drugs-rub subsequent taxation money on each others titties-build a perpetual energy power station out of hemp one

...this wouldn't be the worst idea.

Here's a video of Grandmas trying cannabis for the first time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0R8EJTJ3Ko0

[Tar.Aldarion]

So now that landlords are expected to collect unpaid money... tenants are more likely to run out on last months rent, landlords are more likely to demands more than one months deposit, which is fairly annoying, that whole depoosit system needed a revamp to be like germanys anyway and this just makes it worse.

[Jam-Fly]

I think this then extends to university, just wanting to get enough points to get their particular grade, the whole way people think about these things has to be changed, I am guilty of it myself. Do a LC and do well in your degree and you can still be outclassed by students doing masters
in other countries that I've seen, due to them actually learning better in undergrad. I mean they dont have past exam papers to look at, classes beforehand on what is on the exam etc, are left on their own to just know everything from the course and coursebooks, and they do.

Over here a lecturer asks a question and people are reluctant to answer, yet my experience elsewhere has been people frothing at the mouth to answer and debate the answers...and at the break between lectures asking lecturers more questions in a queue. Here there is a propensity between students to joke about how they dont even know what is going on in class and hope to get by, when are we going for a pint?
I don't know if this extends beyond sciences and engineering as they are my subjects. The point is to change people away from chasing points towards learning better. JC was like teh LC in taht you chased points, but you should be in a more learning orientated mode at that stage of your life.

nah, arts and business students are very diligent and attentive when it comes to keeping up with lectures and coursework


Yeah, I think it'd be great if the system was revamped so students actually learned and developed at JC and LC (as opposed to just learning off information by rote and studying how to take an exam), but as long as the LC is the way it is, I think the JC should be kept similar. But as I said, a full revamp of the system is needed, and this may be step one in that revamp. So it looks like sacrifices will be made in the short term for the good of the long term imo.

[Strewelpeter]

Ugh long rant / question

What I can't figure out , at all, is what the people who are... what can we call them the new shinners? left, whatever ... expect the economy and society to look like when they take over.
No one with a shred of credibility really believes that the 'tax the rich' policy would do anything positive for the economy but even if we magic up an alternative reality where it only fails and doesn't destroy employment and other tax receipts how do you see the future?
Whats the model?
Sweden,France, Cuba, any of the Stans, East Germany c.1975... China maybe?

I'm in Ethiopia at the moment, beautiful country and wonderful people but the state, who are nominally socialists, is a centrally run clusterfuck. An Example, in most countries in Africa I can just walk in to anyone of dozens of local shops and buy a sim card plug it in and go. Here i need to get a taxi miles to the hq of the state run teleco monopoly, bring a passport, and authorisation, a photograph and probably my fucking pps number.
In all the other countries there is a hugely competitive market and tens of thousands of people make a living selling phones selling credit etc. I walked a long street yesterday of shops and stalls who mostly sell stationary, printers computers and the like I only found one shop that sold phones, all used.
At the airport they charge 20 for a visa, three planes land and there is a 2 hour queue to get to one of the counters and then you queue to pay at a different window. Unemployment in the city is massive, why not charge 30 and employ ten more people?

Talking to locals here they are equally shocked at what we earn here and how much tax we pay. They think I'm joking when I tell them you can get educated to a third level degree for not much more than a nominal cost . But of course everything is relative and we ate looking at the extremes of rich and poor, an average wage worker here earns less than a months dole in a year.

Look I'm not an anti tax libertarian but I am a realist and I understand as a matter of fact that taxation is subject to the law of diminishing returns. I'm for as much equality as we can get into the system but I also understand that competition works and states are not capable to run enterprises.

Everything we have from education and health, infrastructure, the arts, foreign aid, street cleaning, public paths and lighting, piers and beaches and on and on are paid for by taxation, there is no more tax to be squeezed out of people so what do you want to cut?

I don't know everytime I come to a place like this I am blown away by how privileged and lucky we are. Of course we aren't perfect no where is but we are one hell of a lot closer to doing it right than 99% of the world. Yet we continue to behave as if we were entitled to everything we get when in fact we are not.
Last weekend I actually heard a woman on the radio declaim almost crying about how tough it is that she gets nothing for free and in the very next breath was giving out that her child was only (Only!!!) getting 10 hours of special needs teaching a week

If your interested listen carefully to the arguments being put in this Moral Maze programme from a couple of weeks ago, you will hear people who are coming from the RD3 and DennyCrane school of Laissez faire capitalism who really believe that taxes should really only be used to fund the military and thats about it but there are also good arguments from the other side.
The problem is that the next time a nominally socialist government actually implements their stated policies and destroys a previously functioning country its those anti tax libertarians that will take over and then where will we be.


TL;DR WTF are ye moaning about we've never had it so good. Cost your policies and tell me then how much tax you are willing to pay.

[KevIRL]

Tommy Walsh retires from inter county hurling. Will be remembered as one of the all time greats.

[Bubbleking]

If SF did get into power I'm probably just going to leave the country to be honest. Their style of government would be akin to those who rang joe Duffy complaining that consultants got paid too much "cut their wages by 50K Joe. 100K is plenty and if they dont like it they can leave" Yeah how did that work out for you

[Guest]

If SF did get into power I'm probably just going to leave the country to be honest. Their style of government would be akin to those who rang joe Duffy complaining that consultants got paid too much "cut their wages by 50K Joe. 100K is plenty and if they dont like it they can leave" Yeah how did that work out for you

How long have you left till you graduate?
Wouldnt blame any young doctor for legging it.

[Guest]

Ethiopias population at present is now 86million estmate.
2050 will be 150 million barring some miracle life is just going to get tougher less resources etc.
Instead of foreign aid it should be condoms and education thrown at Africa.

[Bubbleking]

How long have you left till you graduate?
Wouldnt blame any young doctor for legging it.

my last big set of exams are tomorrow and saturday. After that have a viva in April and thats it but after sat im 90% there. Gonna do Intern year here but after that I'm nearly sure I'l head off to Aus or NZ

[Raoul Duke III]

you will hear people who are coming from the RD3 and DennyCrane school of Laissez faire capitalism who really believe that taxes should really only be used to fund the military and thats about it

Oi! That's a gross misrepresentation.

I don't think we should have a military at all.