Poker players getting ripped off

[thegreatiam]

100%, during a recession??

Apart from VAT, people have realized that you need to charge more than a tenner to accommodate that many people in an evening.

Its only been online that can afford a 10% reg fee. Most events (small to medium) get only a hand full of cash games at 1/2 level which don't rake fortunes despite what you may believe. Side events arent as full as anyone would like. Even bigger events struggle to sell out their side events.

running these tournament was simply impossible charging those low reg fees which is why they quickly went up.
Yes 5 years ago people were paying 10 for a 100 event but it wasnt exactly at that price for ages. 2 or 3 years previously there werent any events. As demand and costs increased then so did the price.

You cant look at the reg fee as a % of the buy in, the two are effectively unconnected.

An event with 1000 players will cost the same to run if it is a 5k buy in with 25% reg or it is a 100 buy in with 5% reg. Event organizers need to make money when it comes to bigger events or they will not be able to run smaller ones.


If anything the reg should be connected to the clock and chip stacks. The more you pay in reg the longer clock or more chips you get. Long clock means more costs which means more reg fees.

[nicnicnic]

Apart from VAT, people have realized that you need to charge more than a tenner to accommodate that many people in an evening.

Its only been online that can afford a 10% reg fee. Most events (small to medium) get only a hand full of cash games at 1/2 level which don't rake fortunes despite what you may believe. Side events arent as full as anyone would like. Even bigger events struggle to sell out their side events.

running these tournament was simply impossible charging those low reg fees which is why they quickly went up.
Yes 5 years ago people were paying 10 for a 100 event but it wasnt exactly at that price for ages. 2 or 3 years previously there werent any events. As demand and costs increased then so did the price.

You cant look at the reg fee as a % of the buy in, the two are effectively unconnected.

An event with 1000 players will cost the same to run if it is a 5k buy in with 25% reg or it is a 100 buy in with 5% reg. Event organizers need to make money when it comes to bigger events or they will not be able to run smaller ones.


If anything the reg should be connected to the clock and chip stacks. The more you pay in reg the longer clock or more chips you get. Long clock means more costs which means more reg fees.

you seem to misunderstand why tournament operators run tournaments, put up guarantee's ect - its to gather people fill cash tables and no other reason

[thegreatiam]

pretty sure i mentioned the cash games and side events

[The Aul Switcharoo]

I swear I just saw JP driving through Saggart in a Ferrari...mbn

[NewApproach]

The fact Paddy Power could drop the cap on their rake by a third at the drop of a hat says a lot

[Zod]

I swear I just saw JP driving through Saggart in a Ferrari...mbn

No, that was The Stig, his driver. JP can't operate a gearshift, hold a wheel and drink Bolli-Stolis at the same time.

[thegreatiam]

The fact Paddy Power could drop the cap on their rake by a third at the drop of a hat says a lot

The cap actually doesn't make much of a difference at those limits. While it will be slight less it wont be noticeable.

Youll need every pot to be over €200 for it to matter, and even at the Irish open the games don't play that big.

Even on a heavy 2/5 game most of the pots will be less than 200 so the hourly difference between a 15 cap or a 10 cap will be negligible.

It was something Ive been saying to do since I worked there, change to a 5% with a 10 euro cap. glad they are changing things.

[Speedytom]

Most of europe would be 5% cap with 20 cap which is obviously extremely bad unless ur playing 25-50 or bigger. So IO having there cap at 10% is beating a lot of europe and making a step forward,. They decided this before John wrote his blog. I really think it should be like 2 or 3% though especially for these small games(with 10 cap) Ireland was one of the best places in the world for rake 10 years back and the Jackpot and Fitzwilliam still remain competively very good for rake to this day but its got hilarious in other establishments as they could get away with it and nobody cares in the slightest. For tournaments im not goin to play a tourney if its over 9%(unless its a very small buy in) And for big buy in events where its like 5k ot 6k it should be 5% max. Pokerstars taking 9% or 10% at some of those main events and then 13% at there side events is just so outrageous. I know its tough for some of the tournament organisers running tournaments with the new tax laws but i really think they could bring it down quite a bit. If there running tournaments without cash games or casino games on the side i dont think they should be running the tournment as its impossible to make a living unelsss you rape the prizepool(ie. 20% reg) which is goin to just leave a bad taste in peoples mouth.

p.s auss rake is very good in bigger cash games/and tournaments. but pretty bad in smaller games. its illegal to tip in australian casinos. Makes a big difference. Dealers and floor people are paid v well though!

[westlife]

I have only ever run one poker event.... Kilkenny Christmas cracker... We where very tight on dealers for the event.. (dealers locked in on several occaisions) and the tournament took a fraction loss with a 20 reg on a 100 game.

[thegreatiam]

I have only ever run one poker event.... Kilkenny Christmas cracker... We where very tight on dealers for the event.. (dealers locked in on several occaisions) and the tournament took a fraction loss with a 20 reg on a 100 game.

was that loss on the ME or over the whole fest? How was the side action?
Even on a shoe string it can be very hard to make these event profitable. Unless you have everyone doubling up on jobs.
At your event were there any extras available? free drink, food etc?

[Donk Magnet]

I run cash games a few nights a week with comp drinks and light food for 5% capped @ €5. Just saying

[LuckyLloyd]

JP bringing 2k Norwegian players to Dublin should be applauded for a number of reasons but even from a purely personal poker playing point of view I think they gave a serious injection to the Irish poker community.

Hmm, I bet Irish players are decent net losers at events like that and the likes of the IO: recreational players going all out to be involved and finding themselves at tables with foreign players of a higher calibre. Hard to measure of course, but if you could chart it you'd see a flow from games in clubs, etc up and out onto planes leaving Dublin Airport.

[westlife]

was that loss on the ME or over the whole fest? How was the side action?
Even on a shoe string it can be very hard to make these event profitable. Unless you have everyone doubling up on jobs.
At your event were there any extras available? free drink, food etc?

No food, no drink, rented tables, chips & staff costs. Loss on main event

[DAMO72]

No food, no drink, rented tables, chips & staff costs. Loss on main event

But you made a killing on the cash action ?? Yeah ??

[thegreatiam]

I run cash games a few nights a week with comp drinks and light food for 5% capped @ €5. Just saying

And how many dealers are you paying;-)

I ran a game up north with a. 50 p per person cap (4.50 for a full a table and 1.5 for 3 handed) but with only 2 people getting paid it's easy.

Different matter when you have 100 people needing paying.

[Donk Magnet]

And how many dealers are you paying;-)

I ran a game up north with a. 50 p per person cap (4.50 for a full a table and 1.5 for 3 handed) but with only 2 people getting paid it's easy.

Different matter when you have 100 people needing paying.

I have room hire 2 staff plus myself drinks and food costs I'm never gonna be rich but ill be ok.
Fwiw I understand where your coming from was just a cheeky plug for my game.

[NewApproach]

Different matter when you have 100 people needing paying.

You only have 100 staff needing paying because you have many many more paying customers.

[thegreatiam]

You only have 100 staff needing paying because you have many many more paying customers.

And working 5 times as long.

Most festivals are 24 hours now. Both because the demand is there and because it is needed to keep the action going.

Starting cash action is painfully slow on the day 1. And near impossible on the final day. We need to get the cash hours when ever we can. So if games can run 24 hours we will try to keep them open

[kincsem]

Sole Survivor is money added by PPP.
I will be happy to go through any questions you may have at the event.

Thanks for the reply.
When I am deciding to play a tournament I like to know everything about the rake, payout structure, any info on sole survivor / scalps / bounties / money held for dealers / cash leagues and so on before I sign up. Irish Open payout info - where is it?

Is 12.5% rake too much? If I had a poker bank of 50 x Irish Open buy-in it would not be too concerning immediately but would be worrying in the long run. The 12.5% or 13.4% (UKIPT) rake now becoming commonplace reminds me of overfishing. You will have scooped all the fish from the poker sea before they have time to recover. The increase in requests for staking suggests the Irish Open buy-in and other events are straining many player's poker banks.

My decision to play was based on
(1) cash is available from a horse win and poker staking.
(2) age and declining health might not allow many more chances.
My cost this weekend is 100% (my entry) + 23% staking +€50 last longest. = €2,817.
I do not expect a positive result.

If you ask at the bloggers desk from about 12:00 tomorrow they will point me out. Why not have a chat with a few of the full-time players to get their thoughts.

[bohsman]

Having a pop a a UKIPT reg is ridiculous. At 70 quid it's prob the best value reg in the world for a 4 day event! They feed and house a vast amount of their dealers... They must loose their shorts on this portion of the event.

No food, no drink, rented tables, chips & staff costs. Loss on main event

Main Events are and should be a loss leader for anyone running a festival in an attempt to get people playing cash/poor structure side events. If they aren't getting cash games going they need to re-evaluate. For Stars the whole thing is an advertising mechanism so it makes even more sense for them to take a hit on running a top notch main event without raking to the point of leaving a bitter taste. The reg has put me off travelling to play in the past and even looking forward to next seasons events. There are better value events elsewhere.

I do remember being a bit incredulous at Speedytoms refusal to play the Pokerstars Sunday million years ago as the rake was $200+16 while Party had a rival tournament that was only $200+15 but he had a point in fairness.

[robinblinds]

The fact Paddy Power could drop the cap on their rake by a third at the drop of a hat says a lot

Just a point of order here based on fact.

Paddy Power Poker (or Paddy Power for that matter) do not decide the rake.

[robinblinds]

Thanks for the reply.
When I am deciding to play a tournament I like to know everything about the rake, payout structure, any info on sole survivor / scalps / bounties / money held for dealers / cash leagues and so on before I sign up. Irish Open payout info - where is it?

Is 12.5% rake too much? If I had a poker bank of 50 x Irish Open buy-in it would not be too concerning immediately but would be worrying in the long run. The 12.5% or 13.4% (UKIPT) rake now becoming commonplace reminds me of overfishing. You will have scooped all the fish from the poker sea before they have time to recover. The increase in requests for staking suggests the Irish Open buy-in and other events are straining many player's poker banks.

My decision to play was based on
(1) cash is available from a horse win and poker staking.
(2) age and declining health might not allow many more chances.
My cost this weekend is 100% (my entry) + 23% staking +€50 last longest. = €2,817.
I do not expect a positive result.

If you ask at the bloggers desk from about 12:00 tomorrow they will point me out. Why not have a chat with a few of the full-time players to get their thoughts.

Great, I'm around the whole weekend - hope you are too btw!

I've just had an 'research interview (!!!)' with the IPB bloggers there so will ask them where you are hopefully I'll catch up with you for a chat.

[NewApproach]

Just a point of order here based on fact.

Paddy Power Poker (or Paddy Power for that matter) do not decide the rake.

Thanks, I stand corrected.

[DeeBrown]

Just a point of order here based on fact.

Paddy Power Poker (or Paddy Power for that matter) do not decide the rake.

So no credit due to PP for the deciding to lower the cap then.

[dinjo99]

Sole Survivor is money added by PPP.

I will be happy to go through any questions you may have at the event.

I said it already on the update thread and to anyone who would listen in the Burlo but I would be interested in answers to these two questions.

Why wasn't coffee available even though it was every other year? (Apart from the expense it was a pain having to queue to buy it as the service wasnt very fast.)

Can you really justify charging €100 reg on an €800 side tournie and not provide any food. This tournie always had dinner vouchers?

[nicnicnic]

ship the 3 of possible 4 dinners for IO reg

[reilly110]

ship the 3 of possible 4 dinners for IO reg

sick value punter...