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    Originally posted by Ace View Post
    So you think it is right that he just kept the money not knowing what it was for despite it matching 2%.

    From the original thread, only one person request 2%.

    So by logic, jason has 2% unaccounted for in is stars account, would he not assume this is Rebels?
    2% unaccounted for? Let's say Jason has $10k+ in his account, and has money coming in and out and is playing tournaments, do you think he's going to say, 'Oh hang on a second, $11,483 doesn't look right, i'm sure i'm only meant to have $11,313 in my account?'

    Comment


      Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
      2% unaccounted for? Let's say Jason has $10k+ in his account, and has money coming in and out and is playing tournaments, do you think he's going to say, 'Oh hang on a second, $11,483 doesn't look right, i'm sure i'm only meant to have $11,313 in my account?'
      Ah Tony, Transfer history tells a player all he needs to know without a balance

      Comment


        Originally posted by Ace View Post
        What if Jason won the whole thing and decided not pay anyone their winnings?

        There is no point talking about what if's, just deal with this situation on hand.
        I thought this was a discussion thread...

        Anyways some people are saying because the funds were shipped he is obliged to pay, I dont agree if he decides he will not play because you didnt confirm shipment thats totally his right.
        Others say because the money is in his account as the tournament started he should pay, but he doesnt know who sent the money, who owns the money or who he is shipping it back to without someone confirming it for him..
        If it wasn't for variance i'd lose em all.

        http://twitter.com/#!/NiallSmythers

        Comment


          Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post
          ... To do so you had to follow a set of simple instructions. If you don't agree to them, then you don't need to get involved. The rules are simple and fair. You agree to the rules when you take part. One of those rules is that you need to post in the thread after sending the money.

          Rebel didn't followed the agreed upon rules, and was informed of this BEFORE the tournament started.
          If I've made a factual mistake please let me know.
          Like wise I'm open to correction.

          But I do not see anywhere a rule that says that you have to post confirmation in the thread.

          As I said earlier

          But he doesn't mention it until 2:30 on the 4th which is two days after we are told he had got the money. At 7:30 he re sells it.

          I know its harsh and its unfortunate but Jason is the business here and Rebel is the customer and Rebel did his business according to the T&C's as posted in the charter and in the OP and that is that. Jason made a mistake by not reconciling his pokerstars

          So seeing as everyone else is at it lets speculate a little.
          Say some time between shipping the money on the 2nd and Jason asking for confirmation on the 4th Rebel had been run over by a bus or been in whatever random set of circumstances you can imagine that prevents him getting online.
          What then?

          As it happens from my experience of spending time in the Middle East he has a completely legit reason for not being able to get on here as any site that is blocked can usually only be accessed via VPN's that are not run through the state run ISP. In any case I believe that is irrelevant because the condition of confirming in the thread is not laid down anywhere that I know of until after stake is allocated and paid for.
          Turning millions into thousands

          Comment


            Originally posted by ferg View Post
            Ah Tony, Transfer history tells a player all he needs to know without a balance
            I'm taking it as Jason not looking at his history, or if he's in Italy not having access to his account. He's not going to notice every cent that comes and goes from his account. There's always another side to every point people keep putting across in rebels favour.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
              I'm taking it as Jason not looking at his history, or if he's in Italy not having access to his account. He's not going to notice every cent that comes and goes from his account. There's always another side to every point people keep putting across in rebels favour.
              But isnt it his business to look? He's running his business, he's responsible for his business, its his business.

              I'm not in anyones favour (yet lol), just trying to look at it fairly, and Rebel has a case, unquestionably.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
                2% unaccounted for? Let's say Jason has $10k+ in his account, and has money coming in and out and is playing tournaments, do you think he's going to say, 'Oh hang on a second, $11,483 doesn't look right, i'm sure i'm only meant to have $11,313 in my account?'
                Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
                I'm taking it as Jason not looking at his history, or if he's in Italy not having access to his account. He's not going to notice every cent that comes and goes from his account. There's always another side to every point people keep putting across in rebels favour.
                Do I really need to point out how utterly irrelevant this is.

                And on the second point it very much more trivial to access stars.com or your own email account from Italy than it is to access this forum from a Qatar ISP.

                Jason has raised more than $ 30K in stakes here in the last 12 months at a substantial markup. Its his business how he manages his customers and it is no one elses fault but his that he did not notice the money sitting there.

                I'm sorry but I just cannot see this being about anything except that at the moment the tournament started Jason had Rebels money in his account for 5 days and had not dealt with it.
                Last edited by Strewelpeter; 17-10-12, 16:27.
                Turning millions into thousands

                Comment


                  Originally posted by ferg View Post
                  But isnt it his business to look? He's running his business, he's responsible for his business, its his business.

                  I'm not in anyones favour (yet lol), just trying to look at it fairly, and Rebel has a case, unquestionably.
                  Yep 100% his business and his fault for not checking as i said before

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post
                    Do I really need to point out how utterly irrelevant this is.
                    I suppose another time isn't going to hurt

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
                      2% unaccounted for? Let's say Jason has $10k+ in his account, and has money coming in and out and is playing tournaments, do you think he's going to say, 'Oh hang on a second, $11,483 doesn't look right, i'm sure i'm only meant to have $11,313 in my account?'
                      I would agree with you except, he said in the pm that he knew he had 2% but didn't know who it was from.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Michelle SatNav View Post
                        I decided to go back blonde kinda sick of the brown
                        Mantle or fire place?
                        D15 CASINO, Mulhuddart Village (opp Blanchardstown shopping centre)

                        Comment


                          Where the rules of business are not explicitly stated and a dispute occurs
                          Their usual interaction can be used as protocol.

                          Usual interaction
                          Rebel:Post request stake
                          Jason: Acknowledge rebel request for stake and request rebel for confirmation of payment sent by posting in thread
                          Rebel:He Posts in thread Money Sent
                          Jason:Confirm payment in final list of stakers and advise as to who has paid and %


                          Below is a screencap from their WSOP interaction during summer


                          I think it is pretty clear who dindt perform their duty on this occasion

                          Comment


                            I'm very confused as to why anyone could be against rebel here. If I sell %'s and I'm using multiple sites I completely understand it is difficult to keep track of who bought what where if some people don't confirm usernames!
                            In my opinion though one should NEVER start a tournament without shipping back any %'s which are not an active % of your play. I don't know Jason personally but he have heard nothing but good things so I do believe he didn't think the %'s were live. However there are going to be selling %'s and after the event will probably be like, oh that $130, oh that guy thoight he had 2% - I don't need to ship that back my money now!
                            If you are selling %'s I really think you have to have everything sorted and shipped pre event and rebel has to be paid because of this fact imho.

                            Also, I remember reading rebels post about the bad beat that Night and 100% thought he believed he still had shares

                            This is an awkward spot because both really think they are in the right but with this I'm on rebels side. If you shipped pre event he could mail you and ask why and at least know pre event
                            Go big or go homeless.

                            Comment


                              ...
                              "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Ace View Post
                                I would agree with you except, he said in the pm that he knew he had 2% but didn't know who it was from.
                                Boom -headshot. This simple acknowledgement by Jason of the fact that he knew he had received an amount equivalent to 2% from a yet to be identified source leaves Jason on the hook for the winnings.

                                The fact that Jason had discovered an unidentified amount that exactly matched a 2% stake in his account should have prompted him to reconcile this (which may have included posting here and other places asking if anybody sent him monies or just looking at his own transfer history) and not offer any further %'s until this was sorted.

                                Hope it gets resolved asap.

                                Comment


                                  I don't see how Jason can owe Rebel anything. He posted in the thread saying he didn't have a %. I think Jason can refuse action to anybody he wanted to. Obviously in this case he thought he hadn't received. So because of Jasons post saying Rebel had no action if Jason doesn't cash Rebel sends him a message saying I sent to you from xxxx then Jason sends back.

                                  So Jason was being totally freerolled, albeit unintentionally. So seeing as the list says he has no action I think Rebel has no action. Anything else is totally unfair on Jason who would've for sure sent back had he not cashed.

                                  I think it's pretty clear cut. Not having access to pokerstars in Italy probably didn't help Jason.

                                  Comment


                                    Oh and if it was me and I didn't know who it was that shipped the 2% and i didn't ship it back pre event. My intentions would be to just ship back any winnings to that same account and mark it as 2% - whateverusernameshipped. That is all
                                    Go big or go homeless.

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by Ace View Post
                                      I would agree with you except, he said in the pm that he knew he had 2% but didn't know who it was from.
                                      Yeah reading back over the OP, it does seem that Jason was aware that he received money from someone but couldn't clarify who it was, so in hindsight he should have sent the money straight back to that username once the deadline had passed.

                                      I am not quiet sure why exactly you are asking me to check my transfer history? I will just assume you want to be paid I guess? Let me explain if so.
                                      I have received funds from Ralph Baylor on Stars on the 2/10/2012. The problem that lies with this (if I think you are looking to be paid 2% from my recent winnings) is with 3 warnings which included pm's, no confirmation was confirmed. From where I was sitting 2% was shipped and sitting in my Stars account yet I did not know from who, like I can't go pm'ing you with screen names that would be wrong and highly unprofessional of me, It is up to you to confirm where and what sn your shipping through. Hence the 3 warnings and then finally a deadline time (see above) to which you had plenty of time to respond and clarify the situation and that indeed you Rebel are indeed Ralph Baylor then 2% would have been confirmed instead it remained reserved and finally cancelled once 6pm deadline went by. As you can see I can't accept payement if I don't know who it's from, anyone could send me random money claiming they bought then you know. If you see it the other way I would of been forced to ship 2% back to you if I bust before the money.
                                      I'm definitely seeing rebels point in this, but i can't help feel there was an angle played here once Jason had posted saying his time had expired. For a man on the cusp of a possible €16k, he should have been doing everything he possibly could to make sure he got noticed

                                      Comment


                                        Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide to... View Post
                                        I'm only following the thread intently as bored at work and this is entertaining, but in no way did the preceding part of that post add up to a conclusion of 'I think it is pretty clear' unless you were employing irony
                                        Yeah must be pretty unclear

                                        "Rebel:He Posts in thread Money Sent"

                                        Rebel did not do this, infact jason posted 3 times looking for him to confirm

                                        Comment


                                          Originally posted by GaryT View Post
                                          I think it's pretty clear cut. Not having access to pokerstars in Italy probably didn't help Jason.
                                          Could he have not sent the money back to the person who sent it before he left Ireland?

                                          Comment


                                            1st like to say I agree the thread is very entertaining but I do think its getting slightly derailed here.

                                            Firstly I think its slightly unfortunate for Rebel that the party he bought the shares from is such a well liked and respected player because it is simply hard for him to get a completely unbiased view I think. I just think if another well respected poker player bought these shares the opinions may be slighty more split. I think this simply based on the fact that before I even read the full details I was thinking "ah never a spot where Jason is in the wrong here".

                                            However in saying all that I do in fact think that is simply unfortunate for Rebel that he missed out. As mentioned above I do fully think that Jason was genuinely unaware of who shipped the money and is in no way trying to do anyone out of money here. I do think that maybe he should have realised from past records who shipped it but that is totally his business not to keep a closer eye on that sort of thing if he doesn't feel it necessary, i know from my own experience I don't(yes I know its a much smaller scale).

                                            I think this is simply a case of bad luck and a learning experience for all the parties involved and I don't think it will happen again. I expected Jason to offer a consolation prize so hopefully he gets a result in his next EPT. I really feel for Rebel but unfortunately its just a shitty situation.

                                            Comment


                                              Originally posted by MrPillowTalk View Post
                                              Reserved the % then shipped the money, anything else is not required.

                                              Personally if I reserved and paid for % then I might not even check the thread again until after the tourney, there is no need to confirm particularly if there was past business and transfers between the two.

                                              If I was in Jason's shoes and had a 2% shipment and I didn't know who it belonged too I would keep 2% for that person on the basis that if I win whoever it is will make themselves known quick enough, either that or ship the funds back pre tournament. Once you have the money in your Acc and the tourney starts its booked, end of.

                                              It all seems to boil down to a dichotomy between the positions held by Max and MPT. Everything else seems to be of irrelevance and of an interest on a tabloid level. It basically is a debate on how business is done in terms of buying and selling percentages. What constitutes a deal being made and what are the rights and responsibilities on both parties. One thing that is clear is that it is not clear cut either way. I feel sorry for Jason in having to deal with this unfortunate event in the wake of such a great achievement.

                                              Originally posted by MrsFlushdraw View Post
                                              I think we should all butt out and leave it to the two people involved. We are not going to agree here and the outcome will have some bearing on a persons reputation. I think the less said (by those not directly involved) the better.
                                              Given that selling and buying % is an important and large part of the poker industry, a debate is not only significant but imperative to the poker community. What is eventually decided here will have a huge impact on any future similar difficulties. Given the stature of not only Jason but of the tournament cash in question, this impact will be not confined to our small community as it will be surely used as a citation in future cases.

                                              In reply to Max's comments above.
                                              Originally posted by Max Silver View Post

                                              The fact that money was shipped or not shipped and sent back or not sent back is irrelevant and proves nothing that the tiniest bit of laziness by Jason.

                                              This situation has come up before and has always been resolved in the favor of the seller.
                                              How can you say that the fact that money was sent or not sent has no significance as to whether a deal was done seems bizarre to me. Surely money being sent prior to the tournament in question is the single most binding factor to the deal. No one would sympathise with anyone seeking to be paid who booked % and didnt send the funds before the tournament. Added to the fact that Rebel booked the % on the thread, then it would seem that Rebel carried out all that was required of him in order to complete the deal. I also would like to know when this situation has arisen before, as I cant think of any.

                                              I think ultimately that Jason was selling the % and a booking and transferring of funds should be enough to complete the deal unless, the % has been oversold. This wasn't the case here as Rebel was one of the first in. I know Jason is meticulous with his business and looking for confirmation is his way of doing things, but by no means a pre-requisite for completing % deals.

                                              This mess may deem it necessary in the future for a booking, sending and confirming three step process when buying %. However the fact remains that before this mess, the two step process of booking and sending was considered binding.

                                              Comment


                                                Originally posted by poprock View Post
                                                Yeah must be pretty unclear

                                                "Rebel:He Posts in thread Money Sent"

                                                Rebel did not do this, infact jason posted 3 times looking for him to confirm
                                                Hitch is pointing out that he posted he sent the funds 3.5 hours after Jason said he had sold out

                                                Comment


                                                  If both parties remain deadlocked and agree to independent arbitration I would be prepared to do it. Initially though its completely up to Jason though obviously.

                                                  Comment


                                                    Originally posted by Ace View Post
                                                    Could he have not sent the money back to the person who sent it before he left Ireland?
                                                    this money needs to be sent back from where it came from before the 2% can be resold or am i missing something here ?
                                                    “The only way to get smarter is by playing a smarter opponent.”

                                                    Comment


                                                      Originally posted by poprock View Post
                                                      Yeah must be pretty unclear

                                                      "Rebel:He Posts in thread Money Sent"

                                                      Rebel did not do this, infact jason posted 3 times looking for him to confirm
                                                      was this requsted in the OP that all parties had to post on thread in order to receive the %, or is it simple making it up as we go along, from looking at the thread, you never said it was sent on thread either.

                                                      Comment


                                                        Originally posted by Ace View Post
                                                        was this requsted in the OP that all parties had to post on thread in order to receive the %, or is it simple making it up as we go along, from looking at the thread, you never said it was sent on thread either.
                                                        If you bothered to read my post, I explained where that protocol came from
                                                        their past interactions in staking namely the WSOP, where no explicit rules where drawn up.

                                                        I pm jason with specific bank details, i did not want made public

                                                        Comment


                                                          Originally posted by Ace View Post
                                                          No where in the OP does it state you must post on thread after sending the money.
                                                          Ah ok, that makes it tougher.

                                                          Comment


                                                            Originally posted by Ace View Post
                                                            Could he have not sent the money back to the person who sent it before he left Ireland?
                                                            He could and probably should of. But as Max said I think that's nothing more than the slightest bit of laziness from Jason. I don't think it makes much difference though because there was pretty much no chance Jason wouldn't send back if he failed to cash. He clearly states that Rebel doesn't have action in the thread. Which should matter more than the money being sent/sent back.

                                                            It's just in no way fair for Jason to pay because he was totally being freerolled which is the biggest thing I think. He was always going to send back if he didn't cash and rebel notifies him that he sent for 2%. So if Jason has to pay it's just a lose/lose situation for him.

                                                            Comment


                                                              Complete mess, shipping 1/2 or even 1k is fairest I can think of. Before everyone jumps in with the if hes owed a penny hes owed the lot argument it just seems to be the fairest result in my opin.

                                                              I certainly wouldn't think any less of Jason if he didn't pay though, as it's pretty clear in his eyes that rebel had 0%.

                                                              Comment


                                                                Thread going well...



                                                                In my irrelevant opinion I wouldn't part with a penny in Jason's shoes, not even a goodwill gesture. Rebel would have been paid back if Jason didn't cash, he should be paid back for the loots he shipped and have done with it(assume this has already taken place). It couldn't be any clearer that rebel had no piece, it was stated by Jason in the thread pre tournament.

                                                                Comment


                                                                  Forum full of gamblers - Live coin flip at IPO imo.

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    Originally posted by kidpoker88 View Post
                                                                    this money needs to be sent back from where it came from before the 2% can be resold or am i missing something here ?
                                                                    Ok, lets get something straight.


                                                                    Imnotfolding - 2% - paid.

                                                                    Ok, that's a wrap. I guess just win now
                                                                    Whatever is going on here is between Jason and rebel.

                                                                    Comment


                                                                      Originally posted by Dice75 View Post
                                                                      Forum full of gamblers - Live coin flip at IPO imo.
                                                                      any side action?

                                                                      Comment


                                                                        Originally posted by I'm_not_folding... View Post
                                                                        Ok, lets get something straight.



                                                                        Whatever is going on here is between Jason and rebel.
                                                                        You get something straight,did i say it wasnt ?no all im saying is that if he had recieved the funds from an unknown surely he needs to send that back before he resells the % no ?
                                                                        “The only way to get smarter is by playing a smarter opponent.”

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          Originally posted by smoothcall View Post
                                                                          any side action?
                                                                          4/5 name your winner
                                                                          5/1 the tie

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            Originally posted by I'm_not_folding... View Post
                                                                            Ok, lets get something straight.



                                                                            Whatever is going on here is between Jason and rebel.
                                                                            You just give him 1% and problem solved!

                                                                            Comment


                                                                              Originally posted by I'm_not_folding... View Post
                                                                              Ok, lets get something straight.



                                                                              Whatever is going on here is between Jason and rebel.
                                                                              I can imagine you reading this thread and then someone questions your winnings


                                                                              Comment


                                                                                Originally posted by danutpeddler View Post
                                                                                You just give him 1% and problem solved!
                                                                                lol

                                                                                All I am concerned with is that I was offered and paid for a % and this was accepted by Jason. Whatever he sells or doesn't out of his remaining 98% is none of my concern

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                  My opinion having listened to all the arguments so far is that Jason shouldn't have to pay out on Rebel's % and just return the money he sent. Jason clearly showed before the tournament started who was confirmed to have a % of him and if he didn't cash I'm sure Rebel gets his money back. I don't think just posting in the thread and sending the money means you have the percentage until Jason confirms that you have it as he always does before the tournaments start. It would be really easy for him to oversell otherwise if say 5 people came on at a similar time and bought a combined 50% instead of the 30% he wanted to sell. Not everybody in that case would have a precentage and it would be up to Jason to confirm who has and who hasn't a % and return the money to those that don't. (which he should have done quicker in this case but he could have been busy/ not have had access to his stars account in Italy)

                                                                                  I do feel sorry for Rebel on missing out and I'm sure Jason does aswell considering they both made mistakes. I would be interested to see if Rebel was online on IPB at all between the time Jason asked for confirmation and the start of the tournament. If he was online between those dats then he should definitely have sorted it out then or else he was just getting a freeroll off of it. I think Jason is being fair here and offering a nice gesture to Rebel acknowledging that there were mistakes made on both sides but I don't believe that means he needs to honour the %.

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                    ...
                                                                                    "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                      Money should be paid imo. I agree with the sentiment that Jason should view staking as a business which he is responsible for at the end of the day.

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                        Jason was willing to sell a percent to rebel, he asked rebel for the money, rebel did not respond, Jason sold the percent elsewhere.
                                                                                        Jason went into the tournament after telling rebel he didn't have a percent.

                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                          Originally posted by kincsem View Post
                                                                                          Jason was willing to sell a percent to rebel, he asked rebel for the money, rebel did not respond, Jason sold the percent elsewhere.
                                                                                          Jason went into the tournament after telling rebel he didn't have a percent.
                                                                                          Looks like you have been oblivious to the whole thing Sean, Rebel sent the money.
                                                                                          "you raise, i kill you" El Tren :{)

                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                            This would be so much sweeter if Rebel was actually an alternate account of RebelMonty .

                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                              Hi guys,

                                                                                              Just got home from weekend away with the girlfriend, that's why it took me this long to respond today as was travelling home.

                                                                                              I will give a rerun of the events which have come into question from a sellers point of view.

                                                                                              When I posted my selling thread for Ept San Remo I continued my system in which I sell action on this site. For all of you who buy you know the story like the back of your hand. I have been selling action the same way for multiple events over the course of the last 2 years. Anyone who has bought pieces from me knows the drill and all have been told my own guidlines at a certain point in time and have honoured them up until this point. Even most observers could even tell that. I belive everyone knows how much I post on threads/pm's/dm's always wanting conformation from senders before confirming their action. To quote the selling sticky;
                                                                                              'It's up to each person to understand the risks involved in buying/selling %. You can use the site as a platform, but it's 100% your decision if and who you buy/sell % from/to.'
                                                                                              This says that the site is only a platform and it's my decision as a seller who I choose to sell to. Rebel was one until no confirmation was made by him after multiple attempts to reach him as best I possibly could. Which now as I stated his time had expired and was no longer a holder of 2%. If I am the seller and make these simple guidlines to follow to which Rebel himself knows full well how I sell action that it is also his responsibilty 100% to confirm payement as it was his decision 100% to begin the process of buying action from me, the seller. He failed to do so and I took it as payement cancelled.

                                                                                              I have to protect myself against all of these things and I am not saying that is what Rebel is doing here in angling but again I have to protect myself first as I am the one regulary selling.
                                                                                              Take again this process between myself and Rebel, he posts to reserve, like most others did, he then proceeds to send money, unknowingly by me to my account, from a screen name that is different from his username here on Ipb. I then perform the neccessary checks not to give anything away in the hope someone comes on to claim the funds and their 2%. I made this check 4 times, 3 on the thread and 1 pm which includes a simple deadline. I cannot in my position assume this is Rebels money just because it adds up to 2% of what I'm selling (I know more than likely it's his but I still can't take that chance incase it was someone else's money, I would be opening up a totally new can of worms to do so). This is why confirmation is essential for me and again has been since day1 of selling. Again it was Rebels choice to buy from me which is 100% his own decision, if he cannot follow simple guidlines it's not my fault. I act on the basis of how I've always sold.
                                                                                              Here you might say the OP was not updated with this information, for a new investor I would hold my hand up but even then by time they had posted and reserved I would already have pm'd them to say how exactly I work ie. confirmation. Anyone who has bought from me can vouch or have a pm or quote or dm on twitter even to show I always do the same each and everytime.


                                                                                              Ok, now to the point where I cancelled Rebel's 2% publically on the forum. I am pretty sure everyone who has seen that post all understood Rebel had no longer got 2% of my action. I waited untill the night (the 4th) before I flew out to finally cancel his 2%, as on the 5th at 11am I boarded the plane to San Remo and with doing so fell under the Italian law of restrictions to Stars and could not transfer funds back to 'this' account whilst in Italy before the event started. I will say the only mistake was not realising the implications of the law with regards to shipping back this '$124.80' to this account incase it was the requested 2% but my thoughts at the time that I am unsure who has sent me this money and I cannot act until I no more about where it came from. Just sending money back to a random account without waiting for contact (as it could of been a number of other things ie. random guy shipped on twitter didn't see was sold out or quiet simply somone owed me money which is unfortunatley very common) is negligible on my behalf. So I waited as no1 I've ever come across just ships money and doesn't say anymore after that. I must stress that by now I had an idea it was Rebels money but I played the waiting game as I saw it best as I knew obviously he will contact me to say it is his. By all means he can sue me for holding his money for so long after I had cancelled his 2% but I did not know 100% at the time it was his. I eventually found out it was indeed Rebels money by pm on 2nd last day of the tournament, I believe day 5. It took from 2nd to the 10th for this to happen.

                                                                                              The events that transpired since cancelling his 2% on the 4th to now the 10th are interesting. I would like to know why on earth he waited this long to contact me as surely he had seen the updated staking thread. He did have access to Ipb during this time as Rebel made a post midway throught the thread saying:
                                                                                              'The joys of living in Qatar where poker sites are banned(inc this one) and clients are not!

                                                                                              Tops my bad beat PB!!

                                                                                              Sickener!

                                                                                              Tid jos, sink her home!!

                                                                                              Ralph

                                                                                              ...paddy attempting to rail from the middle east.'

                                                                                              To seeing this I would agree there is a case for him just missing out on the rail not claiming he was sickened he was missing out on 2% of winnings but then he chose to delete this above post. If that doesn't prove he knew what he was saying about missing out on 2% then I don't know what does.

                                                                                              To stick to this same subject he posted this message before sending me any pm claiming to still be the bearer of 2%. Maybe Rebel or the mods can tell us at what time did he then delete this above post at? I am sorry Rebel but that is so incredibly sketchy! I don't see how your response about saying it would effect the thread has any bearing on the matter because quiet simply it had none, it just looked like a post to wish me luck and ppl interpreted it in their own way I believe not much else was said.
                                                                                              I waited untill arrived home to deal with this matter, I did not want to respond to your pm's while playing for a major title as quiet frankly the matter was extremely tilting so I left it to one side so plz accept my apology for keeping you waiting so long.

                                                                                              In saying all this above, giving my entire rerun of this last week with regards to this very interesting but distressing topic I have still decided to pay Rebel his 2% purchase as a gift to him for his long previous business with me.

                                                                                              But let it be noted I am not doing this because I believe I am fault here, I am doing it because whilst holding your money Rebel I said I would give you something and that I hated the fact everyone was ripping on you because like me they thought you had missed out. I wish you had of given me a chance to respond to your statement of checking my history as In this new thread you say you are a loyal customer and indeed after checking all my prvious history now I know you are. The small number of posts threw me but again to not give me time to speak in private and immediately posting my Private Messages on a public forum without my consent or even a pm saying you were doing so is extremely ignorant of you & I have made a formal complaint. I still left the pm's up as I had clearly nothing to hide, again tho it was another twist in how you have done business with me this time round. Again tho, I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt.

                                                                                              So to clarify I would like to offer Rebel his 2% payement in two installments if he wishes to do so as this is a Gift in good faith to his previous business with me and not a legit 2% winnings imo. 1st I will ship €1,705 to a bank account of his choice and 2nd I would like to ask Rebel would he consider the other €1705 to be given as a gift to a charity of his choice. As I will be doing so myself this week after my own large win as I always do but I too will send to the same charity as he chooses. No pressure, you can turn down this offer, I just think when it comes down to having to be so nitty gritty about money like this it is better off in a place where it's needed not wanted. For anyone who thinks this is bs I urge you to get to no me as a person as I know some will interpret this wrong.

                                                                                              Let me know if you will accept my offer/gift Rebel. Thank you.

                                                                                              We can all go on and on about how everything should be interpreted but lets just draw a line in the sand here and from ongoing chats I would like if I wasn't refferred to anymore when discussing this certain topic, I'll assume Rebel would feel the same. If you have futher points or anything else after your next post Rebel plz contact me by pm.

                                                                                              On the same topic I think this calls for some new stipulations in the selling sticky as to prevent these circumstances arising again to which it puts either the buyer or the seller in such a spot that nobody ever wants. I really do think a simple confirmation is the way to go as this is the first time I've run into a problem like this but yet here we are, a very serious issue to fix imho as it says no where that a simple post reserving and shipping is clarification/confirmation of %'s bought. I will gladly join a debate on new sticky rules if everyone agree's they need to be changed and a thread is made, or use this one even.

                                                                                              Regards
                                                                                              Jason
                                                                                              Last edited by blaaaaaaah; 17-10-12, 20:08.
                                                                                              Huh, Math my dear boy is nothing more than the lesbian sister of biology.

                                                                                              My Poker Blog http://jason-tompkins.blogspot.com
                                                                                              My twitter http://twitter.com/#!/blaaaaaah666

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                                                                                                It was all going so well until the charity.

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                                                                                                  Class as usual from Jason

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                                                                                                    A more than generous way of meeting in the middle. WP
                                                                                                    airport, lol

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                                                                                                      What a player!!!!!

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                                                                                                        Thats hugely classy imo. Lots of people would just get very stubborn in this spot especially with all the drama. Wp.

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                                                                                                          Originally posted by The C Kid View Post
                                                                                                          It was all going so well until the charity.
                                                                                                          Like I said, he doesn't have to accept it. It was just a thought from me as it's what I do and considering the split on this entire situation i thought it was a good idea that some 3rd person party gets something good out of this. Make of it what you will.
                                                                                                          Huh, Math my dear boy is nothing more than the lesbian sister of biology.

                                                                                                          My Poker Blog http://jason-tompkins.blogspot.com
                                                                                                          My twitter http://twitter.com/#!/blaaaaaah666

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                                                                                                            Please send charity money to "Rebel without a Cause Ltd."

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                                                                                                              Originally posted by blaaaaaaah View Post
                                                                                                              Like I said, he doesn't have to accept it. It was just a thought from me as it's what I do and considering the split on this entire situation i thought it was a good idea that some 3rd person party gets something good out of this. Make of it what you will.
                                                                                                              I might be wrong but I think The C Kid is referring to the charity to Rebel not the actual charity

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                                                                                                                Originally posted by The C Kid View Post
                                                                                                                It was all going so well until the charity.
                                                                                                                I like his offer anyway. I personally consider he need not have offered anything.
                                                                                                                Pm for rakeback deals

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                                                                                                                  Classy post.

                                                                                                                  I think given how this has gone and the inconvenience it has caused Jason and Rebel, the rules for buying % has to change to a 3 part process.

                                                                                                                  1:Book
                                                                                                                  2:Transfer funds
                                                                                                                  3:Confirmation of transfer from seller and buyer.

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                                                                                                                    With the new baby I havint been posting here in what feels a long time but this whole situation has really made for an interesting read but seriously horrible situation,

                                                                                                                    Really top class of you Jason fair play, really nice gesture to settle the matter

                                                                                                                    Congrats on the win btw gg

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                                                                                                                        Just lock it up and let them discuss the offer via pm now.
                                                                                                                        Pining for Wa'erford

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                                                                                                                          Originally posted by tylerdurden94 View Post
                                                                                                                          Looks like you have been oblivious to the whole thing Sean, Rebel sent the money.
                                                                                                                          I know all the facts. I know he sent the money. But he did not say he sent the money before the sale was concluded. Jason asked him to pay. He did not respond. At that stage he was "reserved". Jason gave him a deadline. He did not contact Jason. Then Jason sold the percentage elsewhere.
                                                                                                                          If you look at all the other stakees you will see that they followed through with the cash and with messages to keep Jason informed.

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