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€270 Fitz EOM; WTF Hand!

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    €270 Fitz EOM; WTF Hand!

    We're about two hours into the Fitz End Of Month tourney, last hand before the first break. Thoughts on all streets welcome, was a pretty unusual hand, and hopefully generates some discussion.

    Hero is Middle Position with ~18k, doubled early KK>AJ.
    BTN has ~20k.
    BB has ~9k.

    Preflop: Blinds 75/150
    Folds to Hero, dealt Th-Td and raises 200 to 350.
    BTN calls 350 (An IPB reg with a very solid TAG game, and I assume he has respect for my game too, so I expect a decent hand here most of the time).
    SB folds, and BB calls 200 (He is a tricky fish, has spewed some but capable).

    Flop: Ac-Js-Ts (1125)
    BB checks.
    Hero bets 650.
    BTN calls in rhythm.
    BB raises to 2650 (looked to be counting out a call at first, then suddenly opted to pick up two extra 1k chips and raise).
    Hero calls.
    BTN calls.

    So my thought process went like this; BTN calling my cbet was worrying, as this board smacks my range so hard, and he knows it, so the quick call is likely a clear sign of a hand.
    Once BB re-raised I glanced over and BTN appeared quite calm, so now alarm bells are going off and I'm giving significant weight to the possibility I could already be beat in one spot here.

    If I re-raise to iso the BB and BTN comes over the top I'm committed to calling the shove and our stacks are so deep I just thought I'd find out cheaper where I was by flatting and seeing what BTN does. If he then iso shoves I can probably fold knowing he has the nuts. I also expect him to fold here a lot with the strength on show, so when he called behind I felt like shooting myself lol.

    Turn: 4s (9075)
    BB considers the board for a moment then shoves ALL IN for ~6k.
    Hero... ?
    "c'est en faisant n'importe quoi qu'on devient n'importe qui"

    #2
    Fold and hate yourself if/when he shows AsJx
    People say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
    Get a shiny metal Revolut card! And a free tenner!
    https://revolut.com/referral/jamesb8!G10D21

    Comment


      #3
      Snap-fold on the turn and never folding the flop so looks like you played it fine to me. Horrible spot to be in. You know AsQs and AsKs (less likely given flats pre) won't fold that flop so flatting the 3-bet to see the turn seems to be best option. With his check-raise on the flop he has to lead almost all turns so we're actually in a great position imo. Just a brutal card and bad position with the BTN sitting waiting.

      Comment


        #4
        Click back flop over the check raise is an option too and get it in v the fishy for 9k. He can have all the two pair combos and draws we beat. Don't hate the call though. Turn is a puke fold probably. One of them has us beat now definitely.

        Comment


          #5
          If the button is competent as you say, then I'd expect him to raise the flop with JJ or KQ, especially as effective stacks are so deep. I'd reraise to c. 6,5k and get it in on the flop.

          Comment


            #6
            Vs a 30BB stack you should be looking to get it in here nearly every time on the flop when the board is this wet, you are losing to 1 hand KQ and his range will contain way more than that, most of which your crushing and nothing your losing badly to. BTN should never have the nuts here either, its such a good flop for him to raise as he knows its likely you have smashed it with 2pair+. 3bet small to 5600-6000k IMO.
            They will be like WTF how does he always have the top of his range, and they will be saying that when you show up with like nine's - Jimmy Fricke
            Nine's are the top of my range - Shaun Deeb

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Daragh999 View Post
              Vs a 30BB stack you should be looking to get it in here nearly every time on the flop when the board is this wet, you are losing to 1 hand KQ and his range will contain way more than that, most of which your crushing and nothing your losing badly to. BTN should never have the nuts here either, its such a good flop for him to raise as he knows its likely you have smashed it with 2pair+. 3bet small to 5600-6000k IMO.
              Stacks here are deeper than you seem to think. BB has ~60BBs, and hero/btn have 120+BB's effective. This is why I didn't want to re-raise the BB, as if BTN shoves I have to call off, very likely behind in a 300BB pot.. Seemed somewhat unnecessary when I can call and re-evaluate once BTN decides his play.

              Originally posted by thechamp87 View Post
              If the button is competent as you say, then I'd expect him to raise the flop with JJ or KQ, especially as effective stacks are so deep. I'd reraise to c. 6,5k and get it in on the flop.
              I agree BTN would raise me here with KQ a lot, but with fishy behind he may have elected to trap, so there is no guarantee I get raised OTF with the hands beating me, however I will get shoved on if I raise again, and then it's disgusting..

              TY for thoughts so far.
              "c'est en faisant n'importe quoi qu'on devient n'importe qui"

              Comment


                #8
                Who was the button?

                Comment


                  #9
                  ^^^Even with 60BB my advice is the same, BTN if he is good will have you beat maybe 2% tops and you are ahead of the BB's range AINEC so reraise and avoid this puke spot on the turn.
                  They will be like WTF how does he always have the top of his range, and they will be saying that when you show up with like nine's - Jimmy Fricke
                  Nine's are the top of my range - Shaun Deeb

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I'd reraise the flop to about 6k and try and get it in there and then with either of the 2 stacks, Its quite unlikely your u against AA or JJ from the button . If against KQ your not that big a dog either.

                    As said above id be folding the turn as played,

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Get it in on the flop, you're only realistically in very bad shape vs JJ. Plenty of worse hands will stack off there.

                      As played, I fold the turn, leave the table and puke for a long time and not find out how the hand played out.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Horrible, horrible turn card with the BTN waiting behind. He could have had the FD and played it calmly given stacks.

                        Happy to call off v SB but the danger lurks behind.

                        With stacks so deep you don't wanna be hoping to ping a paired board to drag you out of the soup.

                        Really shitty spot this.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I'd get it in on the flop; BB's range is soo wide here. I don't really like flatting because so many dirty cards come on the turn you have to fold to the bb's shove. The only real hands button has that are crushing you is JJ and kq and he would more then likely 3bet pre if he had jj. You said the bb is a spewer so you can get it in crushing him here most of the time.
                          "Think of what your opponent wants you to do, and then do the opposite"

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Daragh999 View Post
                            ^^^Even with 60BB my advice is the same, BTN if he is good will have you beat maybe 2% tops and you are ahead of the BB's range AINEC so reraise and avoid this puke spot on the turn.
                            As BTN and I will generally avoid playing pots I don't expect to get flatted pre here with random weak Axss or unsuited broadway cards like KJo/QTo. Most of his range will consist of big aces and pairs which have too much value not to see a flop IP.

                            When he calls me OTF we can obv discount the smaller pairs and JJ/AQ-As8s/KQ/JTs are about the only realistic hands in his range, which really isn't wide enough say KQ represents a 2% probability in this case. Granted he raises with KQ/JJ a lot on this flop but he also raises with most of the other 2P hands in this range too, so we can't just discount them all based on the call. As I said, he could very easily play this tricky with position and the crazy BB behind..

                            Originally posted by PortOfTheYokes View Post
                            I'd get it in on the flop; BB's range is soo wide here. I don't really like flatting because so many dirty cards come on the turn you have to fold to the bb's shove. The only real hands button has that are crushing you is JJ and kq and he would more then likely 3bet pre if he had jj. You said the bb is a spewer so you can get it in crushing him here most of the time.
                            I'm not too worried about BB, obviously I would happily get this in heads up, but BTN has a stack that covers my own pretty deep stack, so isolating the BB here could be a disaster if BTN shows me the blade. This was my reasoning for flatting flop, and tbh I expected either a reraise or fold behind, not a flat, so the turn spade now becomes a scare card that I otherwise wouldn't have minded too much.

                            Originally posted by thechamp87 View Post
                            Who was the button?
                            I'd rather not say tbh. He'll probably post at some point.

                            Thanks again for your thoughts!
                            "c'est en faisant n'importe quoi qu'on devient n'importe qui"

                            Comment


                              #15
                              This is indeed a very strange spot. I would probably end up embracing the variance and shipping it on the flop. Ship the full house, dodge the royaller, and make a final table stack in level 2. Or go play cash.
                              "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

                              Comment


                                #16
                                I had a spot like this in a 3-day tourney a couple of years ago and posted the hand up for digestion. The general consensus was to get it in on the flop that time, and really, I do think if i was in your position, i would isolate the bb with a view to getting it in if the button came over the top.

                                Connie

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Is BB turning a KQ which he raised for value/charge flush now shoving representing the flush he was charging on flop or is he playing the made flush draw aggro for disguise?

                                  Was the button holding something similar and maybe has the nuts on turn?

                                  I cant see 2 pair in both hands so a Bink FH on river is only get out IMHO so a fold and hope the button calls for info later

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    I think I like a 3-bet on the flop.

                                    You could 3-bet to like 6.2k. If Button pushes and BB calls, I think in this spot we can safely enough fold. If button pushes and BB folds, it's a tough spot, but I think I fold here (because there is a flush draw out there, you could easily have KQ. Therefore for him to 4bet shove the flop, he has to have a minimum of a set or KQ (he can't specifically put you on TT and try to get you to fold with AK etc.). If he's in a gambling mood, he can have AQs or AKs, but the set/straight make up more of his range).

                                    Thankfully if the BB 4-bet shoves, it's an easy call since we're already committed (if BB also has 20k, that makes the hand a lot more difficult).

                                    So on the flop, I 3-bet small to ask question to the button. If button responds with a ship, I fold. If button folds, I'm getting it in.

                                    The only other interesting alternative if for the button to smooth call the 3-bet. That would be really unusual. If button smooth calls, and BB shoves, I call and shove any turn (assuming it's a tournament where it's 2xbet=minimum, not 2xraise, if it's 2xraise, I just shove flop).
                                    If button smooth calls and BB folds, you have yourself in a pretty sick spot. My intuition tells me that shoving every turn is probably the right play here.
                                    If you check fold the non-spade turns, you give AJ, AT, AXs too much equity, so ch-folding the turn is non-runner for me here. If you shove the spade turns, maybe, just maybe, your getting JJ, AA and KQ to fold (the reason I make this slightly outrageous claim is because if he has AA, JJ or KQ (maybe more specifically JJ), he may be calling flop because he thinks he may be behind and/or is waiting to see if a spade hits the turn. When you continue when the spade hits, you look very strong, and you gain some equity by putting JJ, AA and KQ to a tough decision).
                                    when the spade turn hits, checking is a possible play. Sometimes when he has AA, JJ or KQ, you get to showdown without going broke here. When he bets the turn though, I just think you're giving away too much by folding. Also what happens when the turn goes ch-ch and the river comes a spade? So for that reason, I think ch-fold on the turn is also a non-runner.
                                    I think you could make a case for shoving all non-spade turns and check-calling/shoving all spade turns. But the reason I slightly favour shoving all turns is because the little bit of added equity of maybe getting JJ to fold, but mainly because checking the turn allows yourself to lose out on some value. If we've decided we're ch-calling the turn, it doesn't matter if he has us beaten, we're going broke anyway, so we have to decide the best way to play against hands we're ahead of. I think shoving is superior because if the river comes a spade or K/Q, we do not get paid/we are susceptible to being bluffed/we get outdrawn.
                                    So if button flats our 3-bet on flop, I just shove every turn.


                                    As played, we get ourselves in a sick 3 handed spot. I think since button flats means AA, JJ and KQ are all less likely. However, that naturally means that AsXs makes up a lot of his range. The BB's range doesn't really change much since the flop despite the spade turn, in his head he's committed so is prob shoving regardless of the spade turn.
                                    The only way I can see us to be profitable here if we do something like shove turn and get button to over-fold a higher set (which I guess is possible?!) but other than that, too many hands out there that we're behind. I guess I'm just overthinking the turn a bit. The spade hits the turn, and the flush draw makes up an awful lot of button's range and a reasonable chunk of BB's range. I can't really see two hands that work out for us here. BB having like AK and button having AJ (but I assume he's folding AJ here unless he has As) is possible alright.
                                    Bah, there's a few of those combinations (BB commits on flop so shove any turn regardless - so we could easily be ahead of him. Button decides there's too much in the pot on flop so has to peel one - so we could easily be ahead of him). You could probably throw all the hand ranges into an equity calculator and see what it says.
                                    I guess since when we're ahead of button, we win a smaller pot than when we're behind (ie if we're ahead of button, we win the pot plus BB's stack, but when we're behind, we lose the pot plus the remainder of our stack) is an indicator that we should fold. That doesn't take into account the times when we're ahead of button and button does call the shove (fairly specifically, when he has AsJ, or even less likely, AsX).
                                    I'm not sure, but my answer would be to fold the turn. Simply, I think flush draws just make up too much of their ranges, so I fold.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      3bet/folding the flop is awful.

                                      Just get it in on the flop, end of story.
                                      Originally posted by ArmaniJeans
                                      I like this heat - some proper music innit.
                                      None of the 'black disabled lesbian warbling backwards' stuff that the other players inflicted on me.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Starvin Marvin View Post
                                        3bet/folding the flop is awful.

                                        Just get it in on the flop, end of story.
                                        That was my initial thoughts aswell but I strongly think it's the best play. If button ships the flop, how can you call?


                                        I think you just have to chalk it down to a cooler where you're bound to lose some chips

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Because its the Fitz eom and most people are crap and im not folding a set ever.

                                          If im not happy to get it in on the flop id just flat the 2650 and go from there.
                                          Originally posted by ArmaniJeans
                                          I like this heat - some proper music innit.
                                          None of the 'black disabled lesbian warbling backwards' stuff that the other players inflicted on me.

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by Starvin Marvin View Post
                                            Because its the Fitz eom and most people are crap and im not folding a set ever.

                                            If im not happy to get it in on the flop id just flat the 2650 and go from there.
                                            meh, I know what u mean. I'm going with the assumption that the button is a decent player. If you 3 bet and button shoves, you can't call. I still prefer 3 betting as I think calling leads to too many horrible spots where making mistakes is inevitable.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Gowl View Post
                                              So on the flop, I 3-bet small to ask question to the button. If button responds with a ship, I fold. If button folds, I'm getting it in.
                                              You can never fold when you raise again because of your chances of filling up and the showdown value of your set.

                                              Never, ever, ever.

                                              When you raise again you are left with 13k.
                                              When he shoves there will be 21.5k to win by calling.

                                              Even if he showed me he had the KQ before I called I would still call.
                                              Last edited by Wombatman; 15-06-11, 11:23.
                                              Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Lol @ 3bet/folding a set.

                                                Are you raising to 'see where you are'?

                                                Are you on crack, seriously?

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  here is the situation as i see it

                                                  BTN does not have AA or JJ cos he should be re-raising pre to see where he is and to get heads up, he could have KQ pre but after he flats the flop its very unlikely now as he should raise due to spades (even if he has KsQs).....

                                                  IF BB has AA or JJ (cooler)so be it but im making 6-7k or more to tell BTN your committed and get Heads up wit BB

                                                  i reckon your ahead flop and make the spade draw put there tourney on the line to see the turn.......

                                                  ????

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    My god there's some really bad advice in this thread.

                                                    Comment


                                                      #27
                                                      ^^^^^^^^
                                                      Thanks for your contribution. Very helpful indeed.
                                                      Gold fooking star.
                                                      Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

                                                      Comment


                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by Maddogg View Post
                                                        here is the situation as i see it

                                                        BTN does not have AA or JJ cos he should be re-raising pre to see where he is and to get heads up, he could have KQ pre but after he flats the flop its very unlikely now as he should raise due to spades (even if he has KsQs).....

                                                        IF BB has AA or JJ (cooler)so be it but im making 6-7k or more to tell BTN your committed and get Heads up wit BB

                                                        i reckon your ahead flop and make the spade draw put there tourney on the line to see the turn.......

                                                        ????
                                                        I dont see whY the button cannot have JJ not every player reraises and flatting disguises the strength of his hand

                                                        Comment


                                                          #29
                                                          I wouldn't discount JJ at all tbh.

                                                          But it's only a small part of his range.

                                                          Comment


                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by Wombatman View Post
                                                            ^^^^^^^^
                                                            Thanks for your contribution. Very helpful indeed.
                                                            Gold fooking star.
                                                            In fairness hes right.

                                                            At this stage if you dont know 3bet/folding sets, raising for info and letting people know your commited to hands is bad then you should expect a bit of berating.
                                                            Originally posted by ArmaniJeans
                                                            I like this heat - some proper music innit.
                                                            None of the 'black disabled lesbian warbling backwards' stuff that the other players inflicted on me.

                                                            Comment


                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by Starvin Marvin View Post
                                                              In fairness hes right.

                                                              At this stage if you dont know 3bet/folding sets, raising for info and letting people know your commited to hands is bad then you should expect a bit of berating.
                                                              Horse-shit. We were all newbies once. Don't say something is 'awful' or 'horrendous' without explaining why.

                                                              People come here for advice and help. If you are such an advanced player it should be no problem for you to explain the best line here in 3min flat.
                                                              Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

                                                              Comment


                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by Wombatman View Post
                                                                ^^^^^^^^
                                                                Thanks for your contribution. Very helpful indeed.
                                                                Gold fooking star.
                                                                Stfu, I already contributed but ty for the gold star.

                                                                Originally posted by thechamp87 View Post
                                                                If the button is competent as you say, then I'd expect him to raise the flop with JJ or KQ, especially as effective stacks are so deep. I'd reraise to c. 6,5k and get it in on the flop.
                                                                .
                                                                Originally posted by thechamp87 View Post
                                                                Who was the button?
                                                                I still think this is relevant information but hasn't been answered yet.

                                                                Originally posted by Moneymaker View Post
                                                                Lol @ 3bet/folding a set.

                                                                Are you raising to 'see where you are'?

                                                                Are you on crack, seriously?
                                                                Moneymaker you thanked Wombatman's post giving out to me for my post not being helpful but how is the above helpful? I have already posted my thoughts early in the thread. You come in and just LOL at the advice without explaining why it's bad.

                                                                Comment


                                                                  #33
                                                                  Originally posted by Wombatman View Post
                                                                  Horse-shit. We were all newbies once. Don't say something is 'awful' or 'horrendous' without explaining why.

                                                                  People come here for advice and help. If you are such an advanced player it should be no problem for you to explain the best line here in 3min flat.
                                                                  And we were berated when posting crap or we wouldnt have improved.

                                                                  Valor was the person whos advice everyone worshipped and he rarely posted more than a few words.
                                                                  Originally posted by ArmaniJeans
                                                                  I like this heat - some proper music innit.
                                                                  None of the 'black disabled lesbian warbling backwards' stuff that the other players inflicted on me.

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    #34
                                                                    Gold star ship not got one since i was 8
                                                                    ive given up on advising people how to play right pelase keep playing like mongs everyone

                                                                    Comment


                                                                      #35
                                                                      I find it very hard to verbalise my thgts without it sounding like an up and down ramble and end up splurging down only bit parts of what i am trying to say/thgts

                                                                      I know ppl here play at a high level monetary and analysis wise and i respect that

                                                                      I would like to post hands here and comment but to be insulting in an unconstructive way to posts sorta stops me trying

                                                                      Comment


                                                                        #36
                                                                        Default line is to raise the flop and get it in with BB (assuming button folds)

                                                                        If button raises or ships then I still call it off

                                                                        Only time I could fathom a fold is if the BTN calls the 3bet and I view him as being a good player (I'd know at this point Im pretty much drawing dead in the hand) and will try to get to showdown

                                                                        Whole thread is pointless unless we know who the Btn and BB are tbh

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          #37
                                                                          Nobodys mentioned making it 450 preflop which id prefer (3x) at this stage,
                                                                          flop bet can be then 1100 (into 1450) or so and see how the hand plays then, still getting it in on the flop tho.

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            #38
                                                                            Fold pre , shove now

                                                                            Comment


                                                                              #39
                                                                              Winning is gone on hols for the week i can post results after discussion is over with i guess

                                                                              I was the button, I don't know who the bb is, he had made a raise like this a number of times in the first two levels. Don't think the first post said this. he was very bad.
                                                                              https://twitter.com/#!/PadraigONeill89

                                                                              Comment


                                                                                #40
                                                                                FWIW, my 3-bet-fold suggestion was not a level.

                                                                                You're 3 betting to get it in with BB. If you 3 bet and button shoves, how can u justify calling? I don't understand the 'don't want to get it in on flop so flat' mentality. If you flat on flop, you can run into the exact situation we have on turn.

                                                                                If you 3 bet flop to 6k, and button shoves, and BB folds, there's about 29k in the pot and it's costing you about 14k to call. So you need about 33% to call. Are you 33% against buttons range?

                                                                                KQ 40%*35%= 14%
                                                                                AA or JJ 35%*5%= 1.75%
                                                                                AJ 10%*82% = 8.2%
                                                                                AKss 15%*61% = 9.15%

                                                                                14+1.75+8.2+9.15 = 33.1%

                                                                                So it's very close. If you tweak the %s a bit you can obviously come up with a call (I've messed around with the %s a bit, and even if all hands are equally likely, you're only 41%).
                                                                                If you fold, you're still left with 13k which is plenty to play with (and from what I understand, hero thinks he is quite +EV in this field). I know this sounds like the retarded Phil Hellmuth justification of 'waiting for a better spot' when the math clearly dictates you should play. In this specific situation though, I still don't mind a 3-bet fold.
                                                                                [btw, if you HAVE to choose either 3-bet-fold, or flat call, 3-bet fold is still the better play. This is because most of the time, the button will muck. So there's no way flatting is the best play.]

                                                                                So it does come down to if you 3 bet and the button shoves, should you call? Folding getting 2-1 with a set is gross, but shockingly, I think it's the right play. I just think the effect of going broke here is too huge for me to call.

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Originally posted by Gowl View Post
                                                                                  FWIW, my 3-bet-fold suggestion was not a level.

                                                                                  You're 3 betting to get it in with BB. If you 3 bet and button shoves, how can u justify calling? I don't understand the 'don't want to get it in on flop so flat' mentality. If you flat on flop, you can run into the exact situation we have on turn.

                                                                                  If you 3 bet flop to 6k, and button shoves, and BB folds, there's about 29k in the pot and it's costing you about 14k to call. So you need about 33% to call. Are you 33% against buttons range?

                                                                                  KQ 40%*35%= 14%
                                                                                  AA or JJ 35%*5%= 1.75%
                                                                                  AJ 10%*82% = 8.2%
                                                                                  AKss 15%*61% = 9.15%

                                                                                  14+1.75+8.2+9.15 = 33.1%

                                                                                  So it's very close. If you tweak the %s a bit you can obviously come up with a call (I've messed around with the %s a bit, and even if all hands are equally likely, you're only 41%).
                                                                                  If you fold, you're still left with 13k which is plenty to play with (and from what I understand, hero thinks he is quite +EV in this field). I know this sounds like the retarded Phil Hellmuth justification of 'waiting for a better spot' when the math clearly dictates you should play. In this specific situation though, I still don't mind a 3-bet fold.
                                                                                  [btw, if you HAVE to choose either 3-bet-fold, or flat call, 3-bet fold is still the better play. This is because most of the time, the button will muck. So there's no way flatting is the best play.]

                                                                                  So it does come down to if you 3 bet and the button shoves, should you call? Folding getting 2-1 with a set is gross, but shockingly, I think it's the right play. I just think the effect of going broke here is too huge for me to call.
                                                                                  How can you start with 18K, 3Bet to 6k and have 14k left to call with?
                                                                                  If you only min raise to 4K (pointless) you would only have 13k left.
                                                                                  Your ranges are also a mess excluding too many hands and assigning the wrong frequency.
                                                                                  Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    This has been so over thought. Simple everyone knows Fitz eom is a pretty fast structure so for one there is no way I'm folding this set in this position because of the structure and because such little chance of ever been behind.

                                                                                    I would click back the raise by the bb on the flop and easily just get it in. There is also no way he has kq now over flatting behind. I really do think it's mistake to play this hand passively in this situation and because it's the fast structure Fitz eom. Over complicated situation! Get it in on flop!
                                                                                    Huh, Math my dear boy is nothing more than the lesbian sister of biology.

                                                                                    My Poker Blog http://jason-tompkins.blogspot.com
                                                                                    My twitter http://twitter.com/#!/blaaaaaah666

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Originally posted by Wombatman View Post
                                                                                      How can you start with 18K, 3Bet to 6k and have 14k left to call with?
                                                                                      If you only min raise to 4K (pointless) you would only have 13k left.
                                                                                      Your ranges are also a mess excluding too many hands and assigning the wrong frequency.
                                                                                      Sorry, my bad, forgot we only had 18k to start. Yeah with those odds we have to call alright.
                                                                                      Wrt ranges, I can't really see button having anything other than a set, a straight, two pair or an ace+fd

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                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        Originally posted by blaaaaaaah View Post
                                                                                        This has been so over thought. Simple everyone knows Fitz eom is a pretty fast structure so for one there is no way I'm folding this set in this position because of the structure and because such little chance of ever been behind.
                                                                                        Solid point about the structure, wasn't considered much ITT.

                                                                                        Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

                                                                                        Results; BTN called the shove and tabled AJ vs BB's AT.

                                                                                        Sigh, I play so bad..
                                                                                        "c'est en faisant n'importe quoi qu'on devient n'importe qui"

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