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Final Table Online Mtt 4-handed Decision Time

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    Final Table Online Mtt 4-handed Decision Time

    OK guys, final table lastnite i was faced with this spot and on reflection i think i made a mistake considering some of the stuff/advice posted on here regarding bubble/payout jump factor that DOKE talked about.


    4 handed-

    payouts 695, 348, 216, 139

    I am on SB with A7o

    Blinds 2000/4000 (no antes)

    MP (83,000) folds
    BTN (48,000) raises to 10,000 after uncustomary slight time delay
    SB 42, 0000 (me) Insta Jams with A7o
    BB (37,000) folds


    My image was very solid by this point. Only shown big hands and no crazy stuff at FT. Btn had never raised less than all-in since we were down to last 6 so i took this as a possible steal and that he may be prepared to fold to my jam.

    anyway he calls and tables AK and i am out.

    about 5 mins left on clock at this level (10 mins levels)


    #2
    Interesting spot, all depends on what you think the BTN could be opening with here. He's not opening and folding after putting in 20% of his stack though. I think if you assign him any PP and 89s+ and AT+ KT+ isn't a bad range for the average player here.

    I think I fold here most of the time, stacks are even, I probably dwell here with AT and shove, but you are putting your "tournament life" on the line here hoping to get a fold (unlikely), be a 60/40 with KQ/KJ, be 45/55 against 22-66 and have 3 outs vs 88+, in horrible shape vs AT+

    Fold.

    Edit to say - Jamming isn't terrible if you think you have FE, which is the reason you said you jammed. But I think you're wildly overestimating your fold equity here. The reads you've given make this sound like a monster, not a steal.
    Last edited by Emmet; 05-12-10, 15:07.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by bustamoves View Post
      OK guys, final table lastnite i was faced with this spot and on reflection i think i made a mistake considering some of the stuff/advice posted on here regarding bubble/payout jump factor that DOKE talked about.


      4 handed-

      payouts 695, 348, 216, 139

      I am on SB with A7o

      Blinds 2000/4000 (no antes)

      MP (83,000) folds
      BTN (48,000) raises to 10,000 after uncustomary slight time delay
      SB 42, 0000 (me) Insta Jams with A7o
      BB (37,000) folds


      My image was very solid by this point. Only shown big hands and no crazy stuff at FT. Btn had never raised less than all-in since we were down to last 6 so i took this as a possible steal and that he may be prepared to fold to my jam.

      anyway he calls and tables AK and i am out.

      about 5 mins left on clock at this level (10 mins levels)

      Any tournies I play would have antes at this stage, which would make me want to jam just because people are generally stealing lighter, you have a lower M, and you are ahead a lot here.
      Without antes it's close, I'd probably just go with my read of the player and dynamics at the time.
      What network are you playing on?

      Comment


        #4
        We can take a hit by the blinds if needed and shove atc after that. I'd rather be open shoving A7 but it's four handed so not terrible to be 3b shoving it. I would want to have a read that Villain is doing it light and can/will call lighter than A7 too. Seems like you got a read and didn't use it tbh.

        Open shoving atc>3bet shoving A7o with 10bb.

        I asked in the last thread I posted in of yours, what are these games you are playing? What software(or is it live), starting stack, levels?

        Comment


          #5
          sorry guys, i have been asked a few times and didt answer. they are on entraction network, 10euro rebuys, noramlly gettin between 60 and 140 runners depending on time of evening.

          no antes but its something that never enters my mind as a huge factor.


          starting stacks are ugh,

          ''Unlimited Rebuys (1500 chips for €10) available until the first break. One Add-on (2000 chips for €10) available during the first break''

          10 mn blind levels

          hope this clears things up.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by bustamoves View Post
            Btn had never raised less than all-in since we were down to last 6 so i took this as a possible steal and that he may be prepared to fold to my jam.
            I think you have the read on this guy totally backwards.
            His sudden drop in raise tell me he wants action and I would assume that he is prepared to bet/call at this stage

            Originally posted by bustamoves View Post

            no antes but its something that never enters my mind as a huge factor.
            Antes are a pretty big factor

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Mellor View Post
              I think you have the read on this guy totally backwards.
              His sudden drop in raise tell me he wants action and I would assume that he is prepared to bet/call at this stage
              do others think like this? i'd be interested as to how many agree.?

              from my perspective i would often raise/fold with a steal and jam with a hand that i want to result in either a fold or all in by my opponent as well so we can see 5 cards.

              (but i do understand that its not alway great to assume others think like you do in poker when making decisions).


              [/QUOTE]
              Antes are a pretty big factor[/QUOTE]

              of course my man

              Comment


                #8
                I think that having such an obvious difference between a steal and a raise for value is a bad idea.
                Generally, My bets are the same for both and the decision to jam is mostly based on stack size.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Mellor View Post
                  I think that having such an obvious difference between a steal and a raise for value is a bad idea.
                  agreed, if we assume we always do the same. also if we're playing against unknowns it matters less i should think


                  Originally posted by Mellor View Post
                  Generally, My bets are the same for both and the decision to jam is mostly based on stack size

                  i can see merit in this but being overly rigid surely not optimal either

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by bustamoves View Post
                    do others think like this? i'd be interested as to how many agree.?

                    from my perspective i would often raise/fold with a steal and jam with a hand that i want to result in either a fold or all in by my opponent as well so we can see 5 cards.
                    (but i do understand that its not alway great to assume others think like you do in poker when making decisions).

                    Antes are a pretty big factor[/QUOTE]

                    of course my man[/QUOTE]

                    This is very exploitable. You may only do it once and a good player will pick up on it. Raise/folding preflop with 10bb is lolbad, especially shorthanded.

                    I won't raise with a hand I intend to fold preflop with 10bb or less, but I might raise to give the illusion of fold equity to my opponents.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by bustamoves View Post
                      agreed, if we assume we always do the same. also if we're playing against unknowns it matters less i should think
                      Obviously playing with regs is worse, but its still bad either way. A person who tends to do things like that would be spotted pretty quick.




                      i can see merit in this but being overly rigid surely not optimal either
                      I'm not rigid with it it varis from it for lots of reasons. But being reasonabably consistant with general bet sizing is pretty much optimal imo

                      Comment


                        #12
                        10BBs, 4 handed, with your image I think you can be forgiven for repushing here. not a mistake just a little unlucky, though the points above about open pushing ATC are well made. you may well push your 52 and get called by A7 and lose

                        as per the whether the min raise = a hand, this is really rock paper scissors stuff - how much is he thinking about how much you are thinking about what he's thinking... if he's really tricky he may just raise when he's bluffing. I know I would if I thought I was against a thinking player.

                        but as a general rule of thumb, particularly when the blinds to stack sizes are creating a dynamic of their own, the course that is most likely to lead to others calling / repushing is a hand that wants action imo...

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