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    Is this allowed?

    2 players left in the hand, on the river Player A bets, Player B is thinking about it and says something like, "i think im going to have to call you", Player A then announces he has a straight, Player B mucks and Player A turns over his cards to show complete air. Should Player A face any sanctions?

    #2
    Originally posted by RossiesAbu View Post
    2 players left in the hand, on the river Player A bets, Player B is thinking about it and says something like, "i think im going to have to call you", Player A then announces he has a straight, Player B mucks and Player A turns over his cards to show complete air. Should Player A face any sanctions?
    Nope.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by dobby View Post
      Nope.
      What particular rule is he breaking though?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by RossiesAbu View Post
        What particular rule is he breaking though?
        I think he's saying he shouldn't face sanctions.

        Hellmuth would start telling you about etiquette in this spot.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by RossiesAbu View Post
          What particular rule is he breaking though?
          He shouldn't face a sanction. Thread title and OP question are very different

          Comment


            #6
            Player A is a prick

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by RossiesAbu View Post
              2 players left in the hand, on the river Player A bets, Player B is thinking about it and says something like, "i think im going to have to call you", Player A then announces he has a straight, Player B mucks and Player A turns over his cards to show complete air. Should Player A face any sanctions?
              Cards speak. You can say what you like but it's the cards that count. Player B should 1) Not have mucked until Player A's hand was tabled and 2) Given him a good smack after.

              Comment


                #8
                Has player B called? Its a bit unclear in the OP. If not then its just speech play, if he has actually called then the relevant TDA rule is:

                12: Declarations. Cards Speak at Showdown
                Cards speak to determine the winner. Verbal declarations of hand value are not binding at showdown
                but deliberately miscalling a hand may be penalized. Any player in the hand or not, should speak up if
                he thinks a mistake is being made in reading hands or awarding the pot.

                What this means in practice is that most TDs who are aware of the rule will warn the player who deliberately miscalled his hand, but won't kill his hand the first time it occurs.

                This is all assuming wherever this happens follows the TDA rules.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post
                  Has player B called?
                  I think it's quite clear he hadn't. If he had, then a proper lynching of 'player a' would be entirely justifiable.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Player A gets the pot and a penalty. Player B learns a lesson

                    I was in a situation like this a few months ago in a game in cork. I would have been player B and player a misdeclared his hand. I know this guy years and definitely just misread his hand. Dealer called floor on guy but I was just trying to tell him to award pot as I didn't have cards. T.d gave options to player A if he wanted the pot and he didn't want it and I got awarded it. Was fairly tilted at myself at mucking anyway. Should just stick to dealing
                    Last edited by The Aul Switcharoo; 09-10-16, 21:56.
                    Redbet at the Dublin Poker Invasion FTW

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I understood it that player B hadn't called. But it's not completely clear either.

                      If that's the case, and player B wanted to fold without putting money in. Then I don't see what he has to complain about.
                      Obviously completely different if he was following through with the call and had the intention of paying.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Mellor View Post
                        I understood it that player B hadn't called. But it's not completely clear either.

                        If that's the case, and player B wanted to fold without putting money in. Then I don't see what he has to complain about.
                        Obviously completely different if he was following through with the call and had the intention of paying.
                        I'm assuming he called or whats the point of the thread?

                        Some guy's speechplay to get a fold?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Dice75 View Post
                          I'm assuming he called or whats the point of the thread?
                          I was also assuming there wasn't much point to the thread

                          Comment


                            #14
                            No, Player B didnt call, i was just wondering if speechplay like that is okay? I presumed it was, just checking

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by RossiesAbu View Post
                              No, Player B didnt call, i was just wondering if speechplay like that is okay? I presumed it was, just checking
                              Originally posted by Dice75 View Post
                              I'm assuming he called or whats the point of the thread?

                              Some guy's speechplay to get a fold?
                              I thought he called too

                              He's not a prick anymore

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by RossiesAbu View Post
                                No, Player B didnt call, i was just wondering if speechplay like that is okay? I presumed it was, just checking
                                Yeah its fine.

                                In your op you described a player as mucking, when you meant folding. Typically people refer to mucking as discarding a losing hand at showdown. Thats what led to the confusion in the answers.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  this is still going i read it as he never called hence the " im going to call ".

                                  rule changes from place to place but if that guy actually had a straight he could be open to a sanction.

                                  he told the guy what his hand was and let him fold. possible collusion.

                                  but as you say the action went no sanction just another smart arse.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post
                                    Yeah its fine.

                                    In your op you described a player as mucking, when you meant folding. .
                                    whats the difference?

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by mugsy View Post
                                      whats the difference?
                                      You fold to a bet, you muck during showdown (typically having seen a better hand)

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        i tried to reply and this shit site wouldnt let me so no going into a speil again incase it has posted but folding and mucking are not so clear cut.

                                        mainly i can fold and win a pot but mucking no its like a rip of your hand even face up touch that muck. not all done at showdown either.

                                        oh posted ***if everthing was so clear cut i wouldnt have come across different folding/mucking/angle shoots know the game your in
                                        Last edited by mugsy; 12-10-16, 03:33.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by mugsy View Post
                                          i tried to reply and this shit site wouldnt let me so no going into a speil again incase it has posted but folding and mucking are not so clear cut.

                                          mainly i can fold and win a pot but mucking no its like a rip of your hand even face up touch that muck. not all done at showdown either.

                                          oh posted ***if everthing was so clear cut i wouldnt have come across different folding/mucking/angle shoots know the game your in
                                          Did you mean "induce a fold" otherwise this bit makes no sense?
                                          No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity, but I know none, therefore am no beast.

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by pokerhand View Post
                                            Did you mean "induce a fold" otherwise this bit makes no sense?
                                            no i ment what i said. i can win a hand by folding but i cant win a hand by mucking. pay attention it may save you some money someday

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by RossiesAbu View Post
                                              2 players left in the hand, on the river Player A bets, Player B is thinking about it and says something like, "i think im going to have to call you", Player A then announces he has a straight, Player B mucks and Player A turns over his cards to show complete air. Should Player A face any sanctions?
                                              Almost afraid to type here but anyway looks like angle shoot followed by angleshoot followed by double bluff, B i think i have to call hears straight and folds A hears i think ive to call and misscalls his hand inducing a fold from B, because A cant win at showdown, nice work A and a warning for deliberatly miscalling your hand.
                                              Atlantis Events Beat The Boss Saturday 7th Mar @5pm €5,000 Gtd The Dolmen Carlow

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by Atlantispoker View Post
                                                Almost afraid to type here but anyway looks like angle shoot followed by angleshoot followed by double bluff, B i think i have to call hears straight and folds A hears i think ive to call and misscalls his hand inducing a fold from B, because A cant win at showdown, nice work A and a warning for deliberatly miscalling your hand.
                                                It's not misannouncing his hand if the other player never put money into the pot.
                                                So either they both broke rules, or none of them did.

                                                So if you want to give A a warning, you have to take the call chips off B and award them to A as the last player left
                                                Last edited by Mellor; 12-10-16, 14:09.

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by Atlantispoker View Post
                                                  Almost afraid to type here but anyway looks like angle shoot followed by angleshoot followed by double bluff, B i think i have to call hears straight and folds A hears i think ive to call and misscalls his hand inducing a fold from B, because A cant win at showdown, nice work A and a warning for deliberatly miscalling your hand.
                                                  Why would you give a penalty here Liam? A is clearly "trash talking" trying to induce a fold. The hand doesn't get to showdown. If A had mucked, no one would know any different.

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    Considering he hadn't called this is basically just speech play in a heads up pot. No penalty(well there is a debate going on about the kassouf thing at the wsop)
                                                    Redbet at the Dublin Poker Invasion FTW

                                                    Comment


                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by Lplate View Post
                                                      Why would you give a penalty here Liam? A is clearly "trash talking" trying to induce a fold. The hand doesn't get to showdown. If A had mucked, no one would know any different.
                                                      Your right actually nothing to see here really is there :-)
                                                      Atlantis Events Beat The Boss Saturday 7th Mar @5pm €5,000 Gtd The Dolmen Carlow

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