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    From break even to winning

    Hi all,

    I have been playing online poker for 2 years now, i read articles and try to learn something new everyday and am constantly re-reading and reviewing everything i can. ive been a slightly losing breakeven player (-.5bb/100) for the past 6-8 months at full ring micro stakes cash games on pokerstars (2NL). Ive gone from -10 to breakeven over the 6-8 months

    I have always had a problem finding the fold button when i know im beat on the river or trying to make a silly bluff but i am getting past this (still making the odd questionable call but not near as many)

    I have not started to learn to apply ranges yet as i feel i could know more about the basics before i move on to more advanced concepts.

    One thing i am having a problem with is tilt, i play well for 3-4 hrs over 2-3k hands, lose a big pot and end up spewing chips so i have put a limit of 1 hour on my sessions with a 15 minute break

    Anyway what i am asking is this, if you are a winning player, what is your playing style and what are the things you wish you had studied earlier to become a winning player?

    Thanks all
    Last edited by MrMontanaRC; 30-03-18, 09:51.

    #2
    You are playing in a tough game. To beat online holdem on stars you are going to have to work towards playing in a GTO style with occasional exploits. It might be worth trying to find a softer game, or sign up to a good training site.

    A 15 minute break is probably excessive, although taking regular breaks is a good idea.

    I'm not sure what is more basic than ranges.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post
      You are playing in a tough game. To beat online holdem on stars you are going to have to work towards playing in a GTO style with occasional exploits. It might be worth trying to find a softer game, or sign up to a good training site.

      A 15 minute break is probably excessive, although taking regular breaks is a good idea.

      I'm not sure what is more basic than ranges.
      what games would you reccomend? i take a 15 minute break and return to play for an hour i would play a 3-4 hour session sorry i should have been clearer.

      would you recommend a different site? or a different stake?

      Comment


        #4
        I don't think you said which stake you are playing. Most sites will have weaker pools than stars, and better rake back too. Maybe party or unibet. If you have the money, i would sign up with Upswing Poker and watch all of their videos. They will give you a very good grounding in modern poker theory. Best of luck!

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post
          I don't think you said which stake you are playing. Most sites will have weaker pools than stars, and better rake back too. Maybe party or unibet. If you have the money, i would sign up with Upswing Poker and watch all of their videos. They will give you a very good grounding in modern poker theory. Best of luck!
          edited op to include stakes, i play 2nl, thanks for advice

          Comment


            #6
            Playing a 4 hour session at 2 nl Jesus get another hobby I say that sa someone who has been playing over 25 years. It’s just not worth it all that time could be better put into anything else.

            Comment


              #7
              You should go to Fairyhouse on Easter Monday. If you arrive after the fifth race you will get in for free. Then spend a three hour session picking up discarded tote tickets, you’ll find it’s a better use of your time than a 4 hour session at $2 nlh.
              If you find you are good at it there’s a 5 day session coming up in Punchestown in a couple of weeks.

              Comment


                #8
                Don't listen to them, if you want to become a winning player you are going exactly the right way about it, no need to play higher stakes than you feel comfortable doing. You should be aware though that the rake is very high at low stakes, so the game can actually get easier if you move up a bit. Research the rake at other sites and move to whichever has the best at the stakes you want to play.

                Comment


                  #9
                  what? you want me to jump into a 100NL and get destroyed lol

                  gotta learn to walk before you can run......

                  i play to learn at the moment not to win big money

                  Comment


                    #10
                    The quickest way to improve your game is to join a study group with players who are winners at the stakes you are playing.

                    To add structure to your thought processes read this:
                    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Application...rds=matt+janda

                    This book covers the basis of GTO play. Most poker videos are a watered down version of this book so I would avoid training sites as they will confuse you for the most part and you'll waste a lot of time listening to random thoughts that have no application to your game.

                    Once you have a basic understanding of GTO play you'll make the most amount of profit with exploitable strategies. However you'll want to learn GTO first to get your foundations.

                    You are definitely on the right path and break even at 2NL is pretty decent.

                    Finally, when you have the bankroll take some shots at live 200NL. Buy in for the minimum and play nitty starting out until you feel comfotable. The player pool is softer than 2NL online even though the stakes are 100x.

                    My advice would be to continue playing low stakes online to improve your game and build your bankroll in the live 200NL games. Coming from online you will be shocked at how soft the live games are.

                    Best of luck on your journey!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Do live holdem 1-2euro stakes is softer than 1-2 cent online what brand of glue are you on. I don’t know how you can make that comparison. If he can beat 10 cent 25 cent he should be crushing 1k no live I suggest a move to Vegas then . Not trying to be disrespectful to the op but break even at 2 nl after two years is not decent. No doubt online is getting harder but spending 100s possibly 1000s of hours getting to break even at micros is grim. Feisty I don’t know anyone now who plays online cash for a living know that you never mentioned that but that’s how hard it’s become.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Solved puzzle, pick a puzzle that hasn't been solved or goon it up on the currency exchanges if you like the gambol

                        If it's just a hobby, play tournament poker, control losses, but of a buzz if go deep in a big one

                        Bare in mind I know absolutely nothing about anything!
                        PMA

                        Comment


                          #13
                          He clearly likes playing cash games, so I don't think the chorus of misguided advice from people who don't like or play cash games is of much benefit.

                          For sickpuppy, if you play 2nl you are playing against a lot of people who are studying the game and using software - their skill level is probably higher than most live games. Breaking even at 2nl is actually quite the accomplishment given the extremely high rake.

                          hughescons post was very good, the only thing I point I would make is that the best training sites now do teach a GTO style and have a comprehensive framework for learning.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post
                            He clearly likes playing cash games, so I don't think the chorus of misguided advice from people who don't like or play cash games is of much benefit.

                            For sickpuppy, if you play 2nl you are playing against a lot of people who are studying the game and using software - their skill level is probably higher than most live games. Breaking even at 2nl is actually quite the accomplishment given the extremely high rake.

                            hughescons post was very good, the only thing I point I would make is that the best training sites now do teach a GTO style and have a comprehensive framework for learning.
                            Fair enough on most of what you said but if breaking even is good, find a new game!

                            What is the actual point of playing cards!?

                            ***To avoid it being a trappy question... Why play if no payoff... Not why play at all
                            Last edited by Elshambles; 01-04-18, 17:48. Reason: Tangent removed!!!
                            PMA

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Breaking even in a tough game is good because when you migrate to a softer game you should beat it. Over 90% of poker players are long term losers, there are very few winners. Most people play because they enjoy it.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post
                                Breaking even in a tough game is good because when you migrate to a softer game you should beat it. Over 90% of poker players are long term losers, there are very few winners. Most people play because they enjoy it.
                                Over 95% and I'm being lax!
                                PMA

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Elshambles View Post

                                  ***To avoid it being a trappy question... Why play if no payoff... Not why play at all
                                  Why have any hobby if there is no payoff?

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by bohsman View Post
                                    Why have any hobby if there is no payoff?
                                    You're dead right!

                                    OP, what bohsman said, don't start any hobby ever unless it's gonna make you rich!
                                    PMA

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Elshambles View Post
                                      You're dead right!

                                      OP, what bohsman said, don't start any hobby ever unless it's gonna make you rich!
                                      Seemed like a point that needed to be made. I'm sure he can find softer games on other sites but there are a lot of reasons to like the Stars software, security etc, not sure there is really any need to look for a softer 5NL game when continuing to improve in games he has been playing in regularly is viable.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Arazi View Post
                                        You should go to Fairyhouse on Easter Monday. If you arrive after the fifth race you will get in for free. Then spend a three hour session picking up discarded tote tickets, you’ll find it’s a better use of your time than a 4 hour session at $2 nlh.
                                        If you find you are good at it there’s a 5 day session coming up in Punchestown in a couple of weeks.
                                        Please tell me that you done this OP. The original 4th in the National was demoted to fifth and the fifth promoted to fourth. This would have resulted in you making about a lifetime of buyins at 1c/2c

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by hughescon View Post
                                          The quickest way to improve your game is to join a study group with players who are winners at the stakes you are playing.

                                          To add structure to your thought processes read this:
                                          https://www.amazon.co.uk/Application...rds=matt+janda

                                          This book covers the basis of GTO play. Most poker videos are a watered down version of this book so I would avoid training sites as they will confuse you for the most part and you'll waste a lot of time listening to random thoughts that have no application to your game.

                                          Once you have a basic understanding of GTO play you'll make the most amount of profit with exploitable strategies. However you'll want to learn GTO first to get your foundations.

                                          You are definitely on the right path and break even at 2NL is pretty decent.

                                          Finally, when you have the bankroll take some shots at live 200NL. Buy in for the minimum and play nitty starting out until you feel comfotable. The player pool is softer than 2NL online even though the stakes are 100x.

                                          My advice would be to continue playing low stakes online to improve your game and build your bankroll in the live 200NL games. Coming from online you will be shocked at how soft the live games are.

                                          Best of luck on your journey!
                                          An update on my progress

                                          i have been studying ranges, gto strategy and exploiting player tendencies over the past 4-5 weeks. i play 100 hands, study for 20-30 mins then 100 hands etc.

                                          Sounds funny, I am glad i did not discover or start to study this earlier as everything i read and studied just clicked with me, so many a-ha moments in the last few weeks and it all seems so simple as i already have an understanding of the game.

                                          I started winning at 2nl with a roll of 5bi (all i had in PS and refused to deposit) instantly and have since moved to 5nl with 25 bi. I plan to move to 10nl with 25bi fairly soon and stick there until i am 100% positive i am not on a heater . I have been checking what i have been winning with and how often i am winning but nothing shows i am on a massive heater.

                                          This is the first time i have ever moved up stakes and am fairly happy about it

                                          Thanks for the advice

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by bohsman View Post
                                            Seemed like a point that needed to be made. I'm sure he can find softer games on other sites but there are a lot of reasons to like the Stars software, security etc, not sure there is really any need to look for a softer 5NL game when continuing to improve in games he has been playing in regularly is viable.
                                            I have continued to play at pokerstars mainly because i feel i should be playing the tougher opponents, if you are always playing softer opponents which are easily beat how are you going to learn to beat the tougher ones?

                                            I like to have a few learning players on my table to see how they play and what they are doing.

                                            And there are plenty of 2nl learning regs at ps.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Arazi View Post
                                              Please tell me that you done this OP. The original 4th in the National was demoted to fifth and the fifth promoted to fourth. This would have resulted in you making about a lifetime of buyins at 1c/2c
                                              afraid not not im kinda wishing i did

                                              Comment

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