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€1/2 500BB's Deep Fitz Hand

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    €1/2 500BB's Deep Fitz Hand

    Villian (UTG+3) ~€1030
    Hero (BB) ~€1600

    The villian is slightly drunk and extremly pissed at me after i 2 outered him about an hour before hand in a €400 pot (was badly played by me in fairness). I have won 2 other big pots off him without showdown after this as well to add to his steam. I have played with him before when he is sober though and is a medicore-OK live player who is probably breakeven/a small winner in the games, he can hand read fairly well IMO.

    Villian opens to €7, BTN calls and i call out of the BB with QT

    Flop: J98, i check, villian bets €20, BTN folds, i raise to €65, villian pots it to €220

    After my raise to €65 he starts to talk saying 'us 2 again, ect', i respond saying 'you started it', he immedieatly potted it. After this he counts out his stack so i can clearly see it. My interpretation of this at the time was him showing false strength when in reality he was nervous.

    Whats our best line here to stack the villian/win the maximum?

    Will weigh in later.
    Last edited by Daragh999; 16-11-11, 08:54.
    They will be like WTF how does he always have the top of his range, and they will be saying that when you show up with like nine's - Jimmy Fricke
    Nine's are the top of my range - Shaun Deeb

    #2
    The 'us 2 again' comments makes me think he has a hand here. Big pair, sets, combo draws, could be anything.

    The pre flop action doesn't really give us a clue as he opened for pot, I assume it's a pot limit game.

    I probably just go ahead and jam it, a stupid card like the 8 could roll off and save him a lot of money if he has AA/KK because he's never folding those to you with the history here.

    Comment


      #3
      I think I'd be too scared to see a turn here to be honest with any heart/8/9/10/J/Q coming and him potting the turn it would just be a bad situation to be in, so I'm min-raising him here or whatever.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by The Hurricane View Post
        The 'us 2 again' comments makes me think he has a hand here. Big pair, sets, combo draws, could be anything.

        The pre flop action doesn't really give us a clue as he opened for pot, I assume it's a pot limit game.

        I probably just go ahead and jam it, a stupid card like the 8 could roll off and save him a lot of money if he has AA/KK because he's never folding those to you with the history here.
        Ya forgot to mention its PLH, if i jam/min raise im 95% sure he will fold AA/KK. Thats my read at the time.
        They will be like WTF how does he always have the top of his range, and they will be saying that when you show up with like nine's - Jimmy Fricke
        Nine's are the top of my range - Shaun Deeb

        Comment


          #5
          Reraise to 500ish. If he calls n da board doesnt pair im all in on turn. He def doesnt hav hearts. Either a set or AA.

          How often does this game run?
          If you're not in, you can't win

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by minor View Post
            How often does this game run?
            7 days a week, 365 days a year............ a game specifically this good though prob once every 2 weeks~.
            They will be like WTF how does he always have the top of his range, and they will be saying that when you show up with like nine's - Jimmy Fricke
            Nine's are the top of my range - Shaun Deeb

            Comment


              #7
              A million cards kill your action or put you behind, so I think this is a routine re-pot regardless of speech-play.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Daragh999 View Post
                Ya forgot to mention its PLH, if i jam/min raise im 95% sure he will fold AA/KK. Thats my read at the time.
                Still think we have to raise.

                Comment


                  #9
                  If its Pot limit say 'POT'
                  ifits NL say 'AWWWWW EEEEEENNN'

                  Simple game
                  Turning millions into thousands

                  Comment


                    #10
                    How does the villain rate your game? This deep, you'd 3bet AKs/AQs/JJ and maybe 99/88 pre. Would you call his flop 3bet OOP with J10/109. I've only ever played cash this deep once or twice and i'm extremely out of my comfort zone with these type of decisions.

                    I think flat calling his 3bet, and hoping for a nice off suit low card to CRAI is best. There can also be some good overcards for us if villian has a big pair or is semi bluffing with AKs/AQs/KQs. We really don't want to see another heart on the turn to either kill our hand, or kill our chances of getting paid imo

                    Comment


                      #11
                      didnt think you'd post this as quick. was in the game so will not say anything as i know the outcome. villain was a tilt monster berating everyone in the game esp daragh
                      https://twitter.com/#!/PadraigONeill89

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
                        How does the villain rate your game? This deep, you'd 3bet AKs/AQs/JJ and maybe 99/88 pre. Would you call his flop 3bet OOP with J10/109.
                        I would guess in this moment he thinks im a luckbox that kinda knows what hes doing, i doubt he rates me that highly but he can't get past me tonight so he will be weary of me.

                        I would never raise hands like JT or T9 this deep vs this villian but if i did for some weird reason ya i would call as i expect to have a ton of bluff outs (hearts and straight cards that don't connect with me) as well as my true outs.

                        I flat 99/88 here virtually always as well, OOP v v deep its far to hard to play post flop vs someone i expect to be making a ton of random moves against me after bloating the pot with a 3-bet.
                        They will be like WTF how does he always have the top of his range, and they will be saying that when you show up with like nine's - Jimmy Fricke
                        Nine's are the top of my range - Shaun Deeb

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post

                          I think flat calling his 3bet, and hoping for a nice off suit low card to CRAI is best.
                          We're trying to dodge 26 cards on the turn and we're only 70% against the top of villains range and may make a huge mistake by folding to a bluff when one of those 26 cards falls on the turn and/or river if he checks back. Being OOP, I think capitalisation of the dead money and getting value against the top of villains range far outweighs any benefit to letting villain set the price for seeing a turn card.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            i would call his bet with the intention of leading any blank turn and cc or reevaluate a none blank one.

                            if say a heart comes on the turn and you check,i doubt he will be bluffing at it really as a big combo draw makes a huge part of your range too.

                            if board pairs on thr turn i would prob call one bet from him and cf the river.
                            i just don't think he will double barrel here that often.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              call now to c/jam the turn

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by Bubbleking View Post
                                call now to c/jam the turn
                                So you CRAI any turn?

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
                                  How does the villain rate your game? This deep, you'd 3bet AKs/AQs/JJ and maybe 99/88 pre. Would you call his flop 3bet OOP with J10/109. I've only ever played cash this deep once or twice and i'm extremely out of my comfort zone with these type of decisions.

                                  I think flat calling his 3bet, and hoping for a nice off suit low card to CRAI is best. There can also be some good overcards for us if villian has a big pair or is semi bluffing with AKs/AQs/KQs. We really don't want to see another heart on the turn to either kill our hand, or kill our chances of getting paid imo
                                  if we flat call and a blank hits the turn ,then i don't really like a check.

                                  if he is on a draw then he will take the free card too often.
                                  if he has a hand then he will call us down .

                                  some times he may even think he has the best hand,since all the draws have missed and ship over our lead.

                                  i prefer to lead a blank turn.

                                  if the pot is around 450 with both having around 800 behind then i would lead a blank turn for 270.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Some have reccomended flat calling i dont like this at all id reraise to 550 or pot it and ship any turn if he flats not 100% sure whats correct.

                                    Regardless what he has we want as many chips in the middle now
                                    best way is raising obviously.

                                    So many cards kill our action possibly on turn so i like a raise to 550 and hopefully he shoves
                                    Last edited by Sickpuppy; 16-11-11, 12:53.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Out of position its an easy raise/get it in scenario.

                                      To those saying call and check jam.
                                      There are many action killers and scare cards on the turn.
                                      Do you not think he can check behind on the turn which gives another chance to hit another action killer/scare card.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        I'd be re-potting or putting it up to ~€550 on the flop here. If he has AA or KK I think his pot bet over our raise to €65 is his last attempt at the pot. Once you call that bet he'll stop unless he picks up a set or NFD. If he has a set (which I would think is much more likely) then he'll likely call on the flop putting us on worse set, 2pair or big drawing hands. The combination of us possibly giving him a free shot at taking the lead over our hand and him checking behind on the turn with AA/KK/QQ make me re-raise the flop again to get it in or take it down.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          4bet/get it in. Even if we lose value by making villain fold the bottom end of his 3b value-range, there are so many action killing cards that can fall OTT that will lose us value from his entire value range, that we have to play it fast, esp OOP. Also we may end up folding to a terrible runout, which is very possible given texture, so better to avoid that possible eventuality
                                          "c'est en faisant n'importe quoi qu'on devient n'importe qui"

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            I don't like the flat call at all.
                                            You need to hit this fast and hard, I'm raising pot.
                                            Sucks if he has Q10h and is freerolling obv
                                            People say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
                                            Get a shiny metal Revolut card! And a free tenner!
                                            https://revolut.com/referral/jamesb8!G10D21

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Daragh999 View Post
                                              Villian (UTG+3) ~€1030
                                              Hero (BB) ~€1600

                                              The villian is slightly drunk and extremly pissed at me after i 2 outered him about an hour before hand in a €400 pot (was badly played by me in fairness). I have won 2 other big pots off him without showdown after this as well to add to his steam. I have played with him before when he is sober though and is a medicore-OK live player who is probably breakeven/a small winner in the games, he can hand read fairly well IMO.

                                              Villian opens to €7, BTN calls and i call out of the BB with QT

                                              Flop: J98, i check, villian bets €20, BTN folds, i raise to €65, villian pots it to €220

                                              After my raise to €65 he starts to talk saying 'us 2 again, ect', i respond saying 'you started it', he immedieatly potted it. After this he counts out his stack so i can clearly see it. My interpretation of this at the time was him showing false strength when in reality he was nervous.

                                              Whats our best line here to stack the villian/win the maximum?

                                              Will weigh in later.

                                              Note: I have read replies

                                              This is a call on the flop and a lead on the turn in my book on any safe cards and some scary cards as well. Don't mind getting 100 Bigs in on this flop but with 500 effective it's a kind of puke spot getting that much in on the flop but wouldn't say no to it are we really going to fold our hand if we raise and villian shove's on us????

                                              After rading some of the replies i think check raising the turn is bad as we let the villian will check behind a lot to control pot size

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by RoadSweeper View Post
                                                Out of position its an easy raise/get it in scenario.

                                                To those saying call and check jam.
                                                There are many action killers and scare cards on the turn.
                                                Do you not think he can check behind on the turn which gives another chance to hit another action killer/scare card.
                                                I agree with this, bit I'm a bit of a scared nit at times.

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by pgodkin View Post
                                                  Note: I have read replies

                                                  This is a call on the flop and a lead on the turn in my book on any safe cards and some scary cards as well. Don't mind getting 100 Bigs in on this flop but with 500 effective it's a kind of puke spot getting that much in on the flop but wouldn't say no to it are we really going to fold our hand if we raise and villian shove's on us????

                                                  After rading some of the replies i think check raising the turn is bad as we let the villian will check behind a lot to control pot size
                                                  No, the question is how does he get the maximum value out of the hand.

                                                  Hypothetically calling and getting it in on a blank turn might seem best as it disguises the strength of your hand but not many are brave/stupid enough to attempt this with the size of the pot already.

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    Live, tilt monkey, clearly has some kind of hand, money still to go in, every turn in the deck sucks for us/more importantly either sucks for most of his range or nuts him up...I can't imagine not raising here. I think by flatting we're worrying about far too narrow a part of his 3 betting for value range that a) will probably get it in anyway, this is live, he's tilting and b) will find it harder to get it in on most turns then now anyway. We also get it in vs all of his draws that he'd raise here, see a, and may lose value vs them oop on the turn if it bricks off and we check to him or we're forced into alot of awful spots when one of the many turn cards we hate rolls off, or he gets to a free river and either it's bad or, best case scenario, it's another brick and we're not entirely sure what our best line is.

                                                    His range breaks down like this...1 - Hands he perceives as the nuts, which given his state could be as light as bottom two, he'll get it in with most of these and say he "puts us on a draw" or some nonsense 2 - Hands he is nevertheless check raising for value, overpairs etc, which we can't simply assume he'll fold given we don't think he's very good and given he's very tilt. he may fold them, but he'll fold/pot control them on alot of turns anyway, and we may not get any more money off of them. The best time to get money vs them is now, if he folds he folds 3- draws, combo or otherwise, which given his condition he'll probably jam with anyway, after he's check raised he probably isn't folding. Incidentally we have some combo draws utterly crushed, like JT and T9, which he'll likely stack now with and pot control the turn with. Maaaaybe some barely better than 0% chance he has an outright bluff, like AKdd or something, but this would be so rare we can effectively rule it out, and chances are we're not getting another penny v those hands anyway.

                                                    All of this points to a raise for me.

                                                    Incidentally, if we're going to c/r, we absolutely have to pot it when we do.
                                                    Last edited by Sledgejammer; 16-11-11, 16:28.
                                                    "In the world, there are many kings but there is only one God. I am God, I am El Tren" :{)

                                                    Comment


                                                      #27
                                                      Very easy repot right now (given your read that he is steaming with you, his re-raise of your raise AND the fact that you're out of position with the vulnerable nuts with half the deck against you on the following streets). If he is willing to get it in at this stage you are obviously happy. If not you have a nice pot.

                                                      Comment


                                                        #28
                                                        fistpump pot here and cry when his pair of 10s hits a queen on the river to chop the pot and still lose out to the rake.
                                                        Is that how you crash a wedding? yes it is, Bionic Barry, yes it is.

                                                        Comment


                                                          #29
                                                          I think potting it is too much. Give him some room to hang himself, especially as he is tilty. 4betting smallish i think is best but I don't have much experience playing this deep.

                                                          Comment


                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by ikilldurrr1 View Post
                                                            I think potting it is too much. Give him some room to hang himself, especially as he is tilty. 4betting smallish i think is best but I don't have much experience playing this deep.
                                                            This. I make it ~€500.

                                                            I have very little experience playing cash this deep but I dont think Im ever flatting here in the hope a blank peels on the turn, especially oop.

                                                            Comment


                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by shano_88 View Post
                                                              This. I make it ~€500.

                                                              I have very little experience playing cash this deep but I dont think Im ever flatting here in the hope a blank peels on the turn, especially oop.
                                                              any raise here and you may as well turn your hand face up.
                                                              the worse thing you can do is turn your hand face up with out at least charging him enough.

                                                              whether you pot it here or make it 500 your telling him you have the nuts so he will ply accourdingly and if that's the case tbh i rather pot.

                                                              Comment


                                                                #32
                                                                Half the deck leaves you in a bad spot on the turn with almost 2PSB left and your oop so flattening is the worst option.

                                                                For the above reasons also my default line is to repot.

                                                                Because of your history with villian, the 2 outer to get him steamed, two large pots where he had to fold to your aggression in this situation I would make it €500 to get under his skin and make him shove a far worse hand to protect against your flush draw (they always think you have a flush draw for some reason).

                                                                Comment


                                                                  #33
                                                                  Originally posted by Gholimoli View Post
                                                                  any raise here and you may as well turn your hand face up.
                                                                  the worse thing you can do is turn your hand face up with out at least charging him enough.

                                                                  whether you pot it here or make it 500 your telling him you have the nuts so he will ply accourdingly and if that's the case tbh i rather pot.
                                                                  Id rather turn my hand face up than call and have to play oop where half the deck is going to either put us behind or kill our action. Maybe potting it is better but I still think making it ~€500 gives him some room to reshove.


                                                                  I know what your saying though and It is a valid point. I just think in this spot It is better to play it straight forward.

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    #34
                                                                    if reads on the villain are he is weak in this spot why is everyone so intent on blowing him off his air by raising now?

                                                                    Comment


                                                                      #35
                                                                      Potting it or close to it looks weaker than any of the other options.

                                                                      Comment


                                                                        #36
                                                                        go for a freitez angle shoot and say raise before putting out a call pretending you only meant to call then when your forced to minraise and he ships all in you snap call and turn over the nuts

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          #37
                                                                          OOP with a board like that you can't really slow play. You're not turning your hand up by doing so, as I assume you would do the same with sets, combo draws etc.

                                                                          Calling and playing a turn isn't really feasable, there are just too many bad turn cards.

                                                                          Most villains will check back AA or KK on the turn anyway, meaning you won't be able to CRAI

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            #38
                                                                            Originally posted by shano_88 View Post
                                                                            Id rather turn my hand face up than call and have to play oop where half the deck is going to either put us behind or kill our action. Maybe potting it is better but I still think making it ~€500 gives him some room to reshove.


                                                                            I know what your saying though and It is a valid point. I just think in this spot It is better to play it straight forward.
                                                                            i'm not saying that flatting is better than potting.

                                                                            if i'm auto pilot i would pot here my self and actually based on history and the fact villlain is steamed,i think potting is better hoping he either has a hand or tilt and make a mistake.

                                                                            i was just saying i rather pot than make it 500.

                                                                            Comment


                                                                              #39
                                                                              havent read all the reply's, but i think min-raise is a good play, and a lot better than making it €550 or something silly. he is basically gonna jam or fold to any further action from us imo, and by min-raising we give him the best chance to spew off and bluff shove, or just go mental with T9 or and pair+oesd, flush draw. it also give us a nice 2/3pot ship otr if he does decide to flat. i also think that if he will usually fold AA to a raise, a minraise is the one he is less likely to fold it to.

                                                                              Comment


                                                                                #40
                                                                                Given description hes never going to bluff shove if we make it 500 here ever, he will know hero is 100% committed.

                                                                                Just pot it and hope to get it in on the flop.
                                                                                Originally posted by ArmaniJeans
                                                                                I like this heat - some proper music innit.
                                                                                None of the 'black disabled lesbian warbling backwards' stuff that the other players inflicted on me.

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Just min raise, or pot it, or somewhere in between imo

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Depends how strong your read is. If you really go with your read that he is bluffing, flat and check-shove all turns. If you think he is bluffing, give him a chance to bluff a heart etc.

                                                                                    This is the play to make but it takes a lot of faith in your reading ability. If you're not sure, I just make it €450 or something. Potting and minraising are almost the same, but I agree that min-raising gives him a small chance to maybe push with air (he probably isn't but if you shove he is never calling with air).
                                                                                    Poker Podcast Playlist

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Just pot it. Calling does not seem good. Would be ridic surprised if it was a better choice than raising. Have no idea why people think he might have AA/KK. Seems pretty unlikely to me unless he's way worse than OP gives him credit for.

                                                                                      Also, potting it, or trying to shove, seems like the best option to me.
                                                                                      Foldaramus et foldarabimus

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        Originally posted by TommyGunne View Post
                                                                                        Just pot it. Calling does not seem good. Would be ridic surprised if it was a better choice than raising. Have no idea why people think he might have AA/KK. Seems pretty unlikely to me unless he's way worse than OP gives him credit for.

                                                                                        Also, potting it, or trying to shove, seems like the best option to me.
                                                                                        Can you expand on this a bit? They're playing 500bb effectively, he pots it pre, then pots on the flop and repops it after Daragh raises to 65 on a dripping wet board. Which part is terrible?

                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
                                                                                          Can you expand on this a bit? They're playing 500bb effectively, he pots it pre, then pots on the flop and repops it after Daragh raises to 65 on a dripping wet board. Which part is terrible?
                                                                                          Having AA/KK given those actions
                                                                                          Foldaramus et foldarabimus

                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                            #46
                                                                                            Originally posted by TommyGunne View Post
                                                                                            Having AA/KK given those actions
                                                                                            Yep. Folding AA is better than 3-betting it there.

                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                              #47
                                                                                              Obviously raise for all the reasons mentioned and I'd be a fan of 4betting to something bluffy rather than potting.

                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                                #48
                                                                                                Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
                                                                                                Can you expand on this a bit? They're playing 500bb effectively, he pots it pre, then pots on the flop and repops it after Daragh raises to 65 on a dripping wet board. Which part is terrible?
                                                                                                When villain gets check raised on the flop AA/KK are not very appealing 500bb deep. Folding would be better than raising AA in villains spot.

                                                                                                The speech would also make me think he had a good hand, wink at him and then announce all in(even if its too much for the pot). He'll call with all his 2pairs, pair and fd, s/fds, sets, and straights. Its virtually impossible to fold any of them sober against someone who is tilting you let alone drunk

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                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                  I'd be inclined to pot it here. Also when players say things like "us two again" they almost certainly have a hand they consider strong in my experience. If it is a bluff he is not going to want to draw attention to the history etc. and possibly induce a weak raise as a result.

                                                                                                  Also where are people getting the idea that if he flats a pos reraise here that we still have a 2/3 or so PSB behind? Villian is the effective stack here, and he will only have ~370 behind after flatting and the pot will be ~1370 at that stage.

                                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                                    #50
                                                                                                    Originally posted by NewApproach View Post
                                                                                                    I'd be inclined to pot it here. Also when players say things like "us two again" they almost certainly have a hand they consider strong in my experience. If it is a bluff he is not going to want to draw attention to the history etc. and possibly induce a weak raise as a result.

                                                                                                    Also where are people getting the idea that if he flats a pos reraise here that we still have a 2/3 or so PSB behind? Villian is the effective stack here, and he will only have ~370 behind after flatting and the pot will be ~1370 at that stage.
                                                                                                    i said this as a result of him flatting a minraise. he would have a little under 600 in a 950~ pot, reading fail imo

                                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                                      #51
                                                                                                      Originally posted by Journeyman_1 View Post
                                                                                                      i said this as a result of him flatting a minraise. he would have a little under 600 in a 950~ pot, reading fail imo
                                                                                                      You weren't the first to say it

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                                                                                                        #52
                                                                                                        Villain has folded two hands previously to us after the big hand so is not on complete monkey tilt

                                                                                                        Hero's read is he's nervous which for me is most likely a draw or a pair and a draw. We actually perform well against this range, as in we're less afraid of the board pairing

                                                                                                        If your line is to win the max then flat is the best move on your read. Villain is a good hand reader, has folded to you twice recently, and assuming you haven't been check four betting often, he will know you have a hand if you raise. Flat and he fires once more.

                                                                                                        But personally flop is way too scarey for me so I'm raising every single time. Maybe 490 makes him think its a bluff.

                                                                                                        Interesting hand!

                                                                                                        Villain has q q with the q of hearts BTW

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                                                                                                          #53
                                                                                                          Lot people say raise to an amount that looks bluffy. No raise looks bluffy here as hero is committed with any raise.

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                                                                                                            #54
                                                                                                            This looks like a pretty straight forward raise. Might as well be pot. Still leaves a bit behind.

                                                                                                            I don't get all this talk of flatting and leading a blank turn.
                                                                                                            If we knew the turn was going to blank, then obviously that's a better line. But it isn't, in fact the turn is relevant to the board most of the time. (26/47)

                                                                                                            Plus, our max bet after flatting the turn, is the exact same as potting it now. Just get them in. Shove you stake over the line and let him shove his over for a re-pot all-in.

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                                                                                                              #55
                                                                                                              Certainly put in another bet-flatting is close to anti-poker genuinly bad imo. I guess the only problem is he knows you have the nuts when you do this but If he is anyway tilted at least give him the chance to make the "fook you play".

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                                                                                                                #56
                                                                                                                Even if he folds its not the worst thing in the world to pick up 200+ euro.

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                                                                                                                  #57
                                                                                                                  click it back/call
                                                                                                                  "Poker isn’t about default strategies, it’s about exploiting your opponent's bad tendencies"

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                                                                                                                    #58
                                                                                                                    he wants to win this hand. you have to give him the chance to make the attempt.
                                                                                                                    a RR by you on flop folds him lots given your read.

                                                                                                                    a weak lead on turn allows him to make a move

                                                                                                                    if you think hes weak then i believe this is the best way to stack him.

                                                                                                                    have a feeling this ended badly though given your luck lately!

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                                                                                                                      #59
                                                                                                                      Originally posted by dinekes View Post
                                                                                                                      he wants to win this hand. you have to give him the chance to make the attempt.
                                                                                                                      a RR by you on flop folds him lots given your read.

                                                                                                                      a weak lead on turn allows him to make a move

                                                                                                                      if you think hes weak then i believe this is the best way to stack him.

                                                                                                                      have a feeling this ended badly though given your luck lately!
                                                                                                                      Flatting and betting a blank turn shows a lot more strength than a RR now.
                                                                                                                      The euro amounts are the same also

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                                                                                                                        #60
                                                                                                                        I'd just pot it for a lot of the reasons mentioned, ie looks weaker (drawy), a lot of turns aren't good for us - so it's probably the best play. However, I think u have a problem doing this that myself and some of the others that I know on this thread that advocated this play wouldn't have and that is your image.
                                                                                                                        I read the image that u think he has of you but you say he's played with u sober so I wouldn't be so sure that you're correct. I played with u a couple of times previously (not for a year or more mind) and I'd have u as being way too nitty to pot here without Q10 or A10hh minimum so against a pot bet by you I'd be folding close to everything that's behind except prob top set and huge nut draws. In your exact spot I might click it back

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