Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - Wordle Gummidge

[Wombatman]

Yep, that would be for 10 years of reckonable service. Only have six at the moment at an age of nearly 45.

Well, also have two years in the UK, and five years in France, but don't really know what those will end up as.

5stars point does make sense. Might be worth just stacking it away.

French PS pensions nice by all accounts. Think we have enough data now to work out Hitch's current salary although I expect he is destroying the expense account, getting a bonus and tapping into other quasi-academic slush funds.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

French PS pensions nice by all accounts. Think we have enough data now to work out Hitch's current salary although I expect he is destroying the expense account, getting a bonus and tapping into other quasi-academic slush funds.

Absolutely. Although public sector salary scales for all positions are published in any case!

[Raoul Duke III]

All being well with the visa he should be arriving in a month. Thats going to cost us €60k in uni fees over the next four years, but que sera sera. The wife is rolling money into the bank account due to this buyout. And the earnout part has just started, which should be grand for covering the fees, paying off the credit union loan and converting the attic. Seems like it would be greedy to quibble over €60k in those circumstances.

Would the bolded bit not be problematic? No idea what the policy is but wouldn't be surprised if Ireland was not extending visas to Russians with the same gay abandon as before. Or does the family connection get you round that?

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

Would the bolded bit not be problematic? No idea what the policy is but wouldn't be surprised if Ireland was not extending visas to Russians with the same gay abandon as before. Or does the family connection get you round that?

We're about to find out! But it is a visa application for a degree in a state university, so it would be odd if one aspect of the state was issuing invitations and the other half was shutting down those invitations.

[Tar.Aldarion]

Absolutely. Although public sector salary scales for all positions are published in any case!

yeah but who knows wtf a senior lecturer III is. No idea about public pensions at all apart from they are probably a sweet deal and much better than what we get, so I'd buy the years of service. Friends mother is on one of the 200k public service jobs and must be near retirement now, love to see that pension. She has more houses than I have socks.

[zuutroy]

50% of final salary and 1.5 x final salary tax free lump sum if you've 40 years service.

[Micknail]

50% of final salary and 1.5 x final salary tax free lump sum if you've 40 years service.

But for newer entrants it's 50% of your AVG salary over the 40 years.
I've heard of past civil servants getting a quick few promotions when approaching the 40 year point just to reap the benefits of the enhanced pension from the final post.

[Wombatman]

50% of final salary and 1.5 x final salary tax free lump sum if you've 40 years service.

Pension: The pension is 1/80th of gross pensionable remuneration for each year of reckonable service subject to a maximum of 40/80ths (1/2 salary). Current retirement age is 66. Expected to move out. Hitch looking at 27/80ths of finishing salary right now if he doesn't buy service and the pension age doesn't move out.

Lump Sum: The lump sum is 3/80ths of gross pensionable remuneration for each year of reckonable service subject to a maximum of 120/80ths. This payment is tax free.

[Emmet]

50% of final salary and 1.5 x final salary tax free lump sum if you've 40 years service.

swoon

[Raoul Duke III]

You get the distinct impression that TDs are enjoying throwing heat at Mr and Mrs Mickey OD. Probably understandably given some of the guff he's spouted in office.

[Lao Lao]

We're about to find out! But it is a visa application for a degree in a state university, so it would be odd if one aspect of the state was issuing invitations and the other half was shutting down those invitations.

Not sure if uni visa's are managed differently but we just had a new hire start with who is from outside the EU. Only took the 12 months to get the visa and work permit granted - No idea why they take this long to process them but seems like a right shit show.

[oleras]

Folks, Dave Chappelle announced a gig in 3 Arena for September, general sale starts this Friday but for 3 customers there is a presale option from tomorrow.

Any chance someone here who is with 3 mobile could send me on a code by PM ? Would be greatly appreciated.

Something about requesting it from the 3plus app.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

swoon

Its 13% of salary contributed to it by the employee in public sector, which 99% of private sector employees don't contribute as much towards their pension. My brother, maybe an edge case, was bemoaning about increasing his personal contribution to his pension from 4% to 6%! Maybe its good value, but we're seeing people leave us in droves for the private sector all over the uni admin structure (same pension entitlements), so either they are making a mistake, or there are some compensating factors for private sector.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

Not sure if uni visa's are managed differently but we just had a new hire start with who is from outside the EU. Only took the 12 months to get the visa and work permit granted - No idea why they take this long to process them but seems like a right shit show.

yikes. He'll be stuck in Azerbijan for another year in that case.

[AndyFatBastard]

Folks, Dave Chappelle announced a gig in 3 Arena for September, general sale starts this Friday but for 3 customers there is a presale option from tomorrow.

Any chance someone here who is with 3 mobile could send me on a code by PM ? Would be greatly appreciated.

Something about requesting it from the 3plus app.

Fuck fuck fuck I love Chapelle but I hate Arena comedy. Godammit.

Speaking of which, anyone want to go see Doug Stanhope? None of my friends even know who he is

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

ugh, would be massively up for that, but can't do a thing in September.

[oleras]

Fuck fuck fuck I love Chapelle but I hate Arena comedy. Godammit.

Speaking of which, anyone want to go see Doug Stanhope? None of my friends even know who he is

Saw Kevin Hart there back in June, was grand...compared to Wembly Chappelle will be playing in London, 3arena is vicar street

[Strewelpeter]

So any other decent recommendations from the dads (or non dads, CC I'm looking at you) out there for that 6-12 yo range?

Holes is a great young adult film.

[hotspur]

Speaking of which, anyone want to go see Doug Stanhope? None of my friends even know who he is

He was crap last time I saw him.

Randomly decided to do a same day return trip to Edinburgh fringe next week to catch a Stewart Lee gig. Will go to something else as well. Shows are on from the morning at the fringe and throughout the day.

Flights and ticket for gig about the same cost as Chappelle in the 3arena.

[Tar.Aldarion]

Its 13% of salary contributed to it by the employee in public sector, which 99% of private sector employees don't contribute as much towards their pension. My brother, maybe an edge case, was bemoaning about increasing his personal contribution to his pension from 4% to 6%! Maybe its good value, but we're seeing people leave us in droves for the private sector all over the uni admin structure (same pension entitlements), so either they are making a mistake, or there are some compensating factors for private sector.

compare what he gets for his percent vs yours, he'll get nathin. Public sector one is free money. The reason you don't see private people contribute loads is they are not forced to contribute and people are bad at long term planning.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

compare what he gets for his percent vs yours, he'll get nathin. Public sector one is free money. The reason you don't see private people contribute loads is they are not forced to contribute and people are bad at long term planning.

I did start this conversation, by saying I know very little about pensions. What would be the equivalent private sector annual contribution needed to get 50% of average salary? (give or take obv, given its not defined benefit). E.g. the wife puts in 5% and gets 10% employer (think thats standard enough?) - would that be approximately enough, or its still woefully insufficient?

[Denny Crane]

Bolded bit

keep on denying - shale revolution

there is a good chunk of fossil fuels left I’m the earth no doubt but the easy to reach stuff is tapped and the stuff that’s left becomes more and more uneconomical to extract- it will take a net energy loss to extract it long before we actually anywhere near actually exhausting it.

it’s crazy how scientifically illiterate people are, a decent secondary schools chemistry and physics foundation should be enough for people to get this but instead you have a bunch of dreamers who believe all the green revolution nonsense.

Only crackpots post this kind of stuff.

Extra ironic you bring up school In school we were told /scare mongered about peak oil.

Yet only recently we've had negative oil, and the world was running out of oil storage. We'll probably have stopped burning it for mostly energy before we need to worry about running low.

[Pat Mustard]

Only crackpots post this kind of stuff.

Extra ironic you bring up school In school we were told /scare mongered about peak oil.

Yet only recently we've had negative oil, and the world was running out of oil storage. We'll probably have stopped burning it for mostly energy before we need to worry about running low.

Can people stop quoting MiseryGuest in their posts, I believe if you respond @Miseryguest he'll see it. Ta

[Denny Crane]

I did start this conversation, by saying I know very little about pensions. What would be the equivalent private sector annual contribution needed to get 50% of average salary? (give or take obv, given its not defined benefit). E.g. the wife puts in 5% and gets 10% employer (think thats standard enough?) - would that be approximately enough, or its still woefully insufficient?

You'd need multi million euro private pensions to match the higher end. Possibly it might not even be possible to match the top pensions because of the 115k and 2m cap.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

You'd need multi million euro private pensions to match the higher end. Possibly it might not even be possible to match the top pensions because of the 115k and 2m cap.

Are we sure the higher end is all that high? Like, I'm on the higher end, and my max pension even with all eligible years isn't all that high. Maybe because of the switch to career average pensions.

[shrapnel]

Saw Kevin Hart there back in June, was grand...compared to Wembly Chappelle will be playing in London, 3arena is vicar street

He's playing in the o2 arena in London, the Wembley thing is just an appearance

[Murdrum]

I did start this conversation, by saying I know very little about pensions. What would be the equivalent private sector annual contribution needed to get 50% of average salary? (give or take obv, given its not defined benefit). E.g. the wife puts in 5% and gets 10% employer (think thats standard enough?) - would that be approximately enough, or its still woefully insufficient?

I know companies have been contributing more in recent years but I’d say 10% is on the higher end. I don’t think any company I’ve been with has been that high and the closest was a match rather than a minimum.

Although those getting a decent proportion of their package via stock isn’t a primary target group for increasing pension contribution; I do think that if they simplified tax free pension contributions from bonuses rather than just base salary, even up to the cap then the private sector contribution would increase quite significantly.

[Raoul Duke III]

You'd need multi million euro private pensions to match the higher end. Possibly it might not even be possible to match the top pensions because of the 115k and 2m cap.

Work out how much of a pension p.a. you would need. e.g. ' I need 50,000 p.a.'

Then apply the 4% safe withdrawal rule.

i.e. to draw down a pension of 50k, you would need a pot of 1.25m at retirement. In fact, ~1.6m as you would have taken 25% as a tax free lump sum.

Now ask yourself if your contributions, plus your employers, plus investment returns will get you there.

Ignoring the statutory pension, which inevitably will diminish as our dependency ratio goes up, here. I think you will see a lot of us will be working well into our seventies...

[oleras]

Bah, turns out the brother cant get the day off work.

Ill keep my powder dry for Bert and Tom next year...fingers crossed.

[Solksjaer!]

No monies for pensions so we work into our 70s hmmm now who is going to employ these seniors ? Job sharing . Part time work OR feign dementia and get a nursing home spot and spend your days oogling the sadistic carers\nurses .
oh yeah baby abuse me.
Old age looks grim however if you set your expectations correctly it can be one big pervy ride to the grave. I expect a few hot spoons hitting me where it hurts .

nurse ratchet better be stocked up on happy pills .

[Denny Crane]

Are we sure the higher end is all that high? Like, I'm on the higher end, and my max pension even with all eligible years isn't all that high. Maybe because of the switch to career average pensions.

There's public servents with six figures, that would be nigh on impossible for others to replicate

[Denny Crane]

Work out how much of a pension p.a. you would need. e.g. ' I need 50,000 p.a.'

Then apply the 4% safe withdrawal rule.

i.e. to draw down a pension of 50k, you would need a pot of 1.25m at retirement. In fact, ~1.6m as you would have taken 25% as a tax free lump sum.

Now ask yourself if your contributions, plus your employers, plus investment returns will get you there.

Ignoring the statutory pension, which inevitably will diminish as our dependency ratio goes up, here. I think you will see a lot of us will be working well into our seventies...

Nah your runrate will reduce a lot more than you think it will. And 4% is too conservative. You're not planning on this money lasting in perpetuity. You ideally want to die with zero (and dependents covered) anything else and you wasted too much time working.

[Denny Crane]

Have this on the spotify as it seems to have popped up in a few places due to Stranger Things. Its a killer of a tune.

I saw quite a few old school Metallica fans at ATN. Was tempted to do a knowing nod at their t-shirt and say "ah yeah, the Stranger Things band, right?"

[6starpool]

Work out how much of a pension p.a. you would need. e.g. ' I need 50,000 p.a.'

Then apply the 4% safe withdrawal rule.

i.e. to draw down a pension of 50k, you would need a pot of 1.25m at retirement. In fact, ~1.6m as you would have taken 25% as a tax free lump sum.

Now ask yourself if your contributions, plus your employers, plus investment returns will get you there.

Ignoring the statutory pension, which inevitably will diminish as our dependency ratio goes up, here. I think you will see a lot of us will be working well into our seventies...

By the time most people reach normal(ish) retirement age, their outgoings should be substantially reduced compared to previous years. Mortgage, childcare, etc should be almost zero (not for all, but for most), so while 50k for an individual would be lovely, it's hardly necessary, especially if you factor in whatever state pension will be in place. I know the pensions thing that governments keep pushing aside for future govs will come to a head at some point so basically none of that should be seen as guaranteed for those with middling private pension provisions, chances are there will be something left.

The amount of people that will reach retirement age from the private sector though with practically nothing in a pension pot will mean that lots do have to stay working into their 70's. I certainly won't be near any top end pension when I reach 65, but I'm hoping that I will still be able to quit working by then. A lot of variables to get through in the intervening years though obviously. I'd love to retire earlier, but that's likely a pipe dream.

My current place pays 7% contribution after 5 years, 5% before that (I'm there 3). I'm not maxing out my contributions because the missus is just about to enter probably the final year of a multi year career break, but I'm putting in 15%, which isn't terrible. Being a contractor though is the way to go to finance a decent pension pot. Mate of mine fell on his feet a few years back and is putting 60k per year into a pension, which I can only dream of!

[Raoul Duke III]

Nah your runrate will reduce a lot more than you think it will. And 4% is too conservative. You're not planning on this money lasting in perpetuity. You ideally want to die with zero (and dependents covered) anything else and you wasted too much time working.

4% assumption kinda depends on what age you start retirement at? Agree on the 'die with zero' ideal but you equally don't want to run out! Although hopefully your pot continues to generate investment returns after retirement too...

e.g. the baseline for someine retiring at 55 vs 65 vs 75 is very different. And the runrate too obviously changes depending on age.

[Tar.Aldarion]

The high PS pensions are impossible to match, it's just such good money. My sister essentially joined the PS at HEO and is going up, with the average she will get a ton for basically nothing. You have to have a high paying private job to match a crap PS job. My mother never went above CO, the lowest tier, and her pension is way better than my fathers who earned waaaay more.

As for the 4% rule, it's based on a 30 year retirement and even then it has a chance of failing - we have data for a limited number of historical 50 year periods and the world be a changin'. It was revised in a further study for current day to 3.5%. If you instead are retired for 40 years you'd a 15% chance of running out of money, 30% over 50 years and that's what the FIRE people don't think about. I saw a good video on it recently using monte carlo with a success being over 95%, for 30 years that gave 3.5% which matched the revision, but say somebody retired at in their 40's, that goes down to 2.2%.

[Raoul Duke III]

The high PS pensions are impossible to match, it's just such good money. My sister essentially joined the PS at HEO and is going up, with the average she will get a ton for basically nothing. You have to have a high paying private job to match a crap PS job. My mother never went above CO, the lowest tier, and her pension is way better than my fathers who earned waaaay more.

This is the key point. No private worker can ever, even if they contribute the absolute max and their employer makes decent contributions, can ever match the pension that their public sector equivalent gets.

I'm not moaning just stating a basic truth.

[6starpool]

The key to having a prosperous and early retirement is to not have any kids.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

There's public servents with six figures, that would be nigh on impossible for others to replicate

There must only be a literal handful of public servants on six figures. Except maybe those grandfathered in from some old final salary scheme. You'd need a career average earning of €200k for a six figure pension. There just aren't those jobs, except one or two.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

By the time most people reach normal(ish) retirement age, their outgoings should be substantially reduced compared to previous years. Mortgage, childcare, etc should be almost zero (not for all, but for most), so while 50k for an individual would be lovely, it's hardly necessary, especially if you factor in whatever state pension will be in place. I know the pensions thing that governments keep pushing aside for future govs will come to a head at some point so basically none of that should be seen as guaranteed for those with middling private pension provisions, chances are there will be something left.

The amount of people that will reach retirement age from the private sector though with practically nothing in a pension pot will mean that lots do have to stay working into their 70's. I certainly won't be near any top end pension when I reach 65, but I'm hoping that I will still be able to quit working by then. A lot of variables to get through in the intervening years though obviously. I'd love to retire earlier, but that's likely a pipe dream.

My current place pays 7% contribution after 5 years, 5% before that (I'm there 3). I'm not maxing out my contributions because the missus is just about to enter probably the final year of a multi year career break, but I'm putting in 15%, which isn't terrible. Being a contractor though is the way to go to finance a decent pension pot. Mate of mine fell on his feet a few years back and is putting 60k per year into a pension, which I can only dream of!

Did I misunderstand or is there very little incentive to putting in more than 25% of 115k in a pension, as the tax incentives just aren't there. Unless you are a bit older.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

This is the key point. No private worker can ever, even if they contribute the absolute max and their employer makes decent contributions, can ever match the pension that their public sector equivalent gets.

I'm not moaning just stating a basic truth.

Actually yeah, I simulated the wifes pension last night. Despite being in the massively enviable position of six figures in early 30s, with 15% annual pension contributions, she'd just about make a €25,000 (today's money equiv) pension at 65. jaysus. That seems an impossible position. why the fuck are all the people leaving the PS then - literally walking out the door everyday. I suspect they must be looking at current salary gains and not factoring in the huge pension hit.

[6starpool]

Did I misunderstand or is there very little incentive to putting in more than 25% of 115k in a pension, as the tax incentives just aren't there. Unless you are a bit older.

The age limits don't apply for self employed contractors. Your company can put in money which is exempt from PRSI/USC as well as PAYE, so any contributions into an executive pension are basically avoiding all tax on those funds (excepting any tax you pay as part of drawing down the pension of course). For normal PAYE plebs, as well as being subject to the age related contribution limits, even within that you still pay PRSI and USC, so only get relief at the 40% rate (assuming one is on the higher rate of tax), rather than 51% or whatever when you include PRSI and USC,. I was doing this for a few years as a contractor before I had to move back to permie land for stability.

[Denny Crane]

There must only be a literal handful of public servants on six figures. Except maybe those grandfathered in from some old final salary scheme. You'd need a career average earning of €200k for a six figure pension. There just aren't those jobs, except one or two.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/sixty-five-former-civil-servants-get-pensions-of-more-than-100000-a-year-41196045.html

[6starpool]

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/...-41196045.html

That averaage earnings thing is for joiners to the scheme after 2012, it's final salary for those in it before then. Still wouldn't be a huge amount of people earning 200k in the civil service, but plenty getting pensions of 40k or more.

[Tar.Aldarion]

Shows how good they got it when youd need 6.6 million in a private pension to match and the limit is 2 million, which 99% don't reach.

[Raoul Duke III]

Did I misunderstand or is there very little incentive to putting in more than 25% of 115k in a pension, as the tax incentives just aren't there. Unless you are a bit older.

I can't see the point in going over the 115k threshold myself and make sure I cap my contributions just shy of it.

30% at 50 afair.

[6starpool]

Shows how good they got it when youd need 6.6 million in a private pension to match and the limit is 2 million, which 99% don't reach.

I'm not sure how that works. 6.6m divided by 100k is 66. Are they saying that the average retiring person needs 66 years worth of pension? How do they come to that figure?

[6starpool]

I can't see the point in going over the 115k threshold myself and make sure I cap my contributions just shy of it.

30% at 50 afair.

See my previous answer. Different rules apply.

[Murdrum]

Actually yeah, I simulated the wifes pension last night. Despite being in the massively enviable position of six figures in early 30s, with 15% annual pension contributions, she'd just about make a €25,000 (today's money equiv) pension at 65. jaysus. That seems an impossible position. why the fuck are all the people leaving the PS then - literally walking out the door everyday. I suspect they must be looking at current salary gains and not factoring in the huge pension hit.

I think that’s it exactly.

Is it fair to assume that the PS employees that you’re seeing walk out the door are highly educated and very employable in a tight labour market too?

Take your wife as an example, could she justify moving into the PS given her earning potential. Moving to a smaller salary for the benefits of a pension in 30+ years time is hard to justify atm.

I imagine there are many relatively young PhD’s that require little push to make a move. TBH I find it hard to understand how academia for example can hold on to good people especially in Dublin.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/...-41196045.html

yeah thats the old scheme. That was ditched, but older people kept their entitlement. Its surely almost impossible now to accumulate a 100k annual pension in PS with the career average earnings.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

I think that’s it exactly.

Is it fair to assume that the PS employees that you’re seeing walk out the door are highly educated and very employable in a tight labour market too?

Take your wife as an example, could she justify moving into the PS given her earning potential. Moving to a smaller salary for the benefits of a pension in 30+ years time is hard to justify atm.

I imagine there are many relatively young PhD’s that require little push to make a move. TBH I find it hard to understand how academia for example can hold on to good people especially in Dublin.

PhDs would rarely stay in academia now. Well that's in business, computing, areas. I guess if you do a PhD in ancient Irish history there's not much for you to do except stick around. But its mainly mid-level administrators that are leaving - marketing administrators, HR, general admin. Its just too slow to move up the ranks in admin positions, and the eventual earnings are never worth it. Junior administrators, for example, start on 24,000, and are expected to spend 13 years on the scale, eventually arriving at the lofty heights of 32,000. Its grand if you aren't up to much, maybe? Probably not. But if you've any type of desire to move more quickly, you'll be straight out the door.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

Shows how good they got it when youd need 6.6 million in a private pension to match and the limit is 2 million, which 99% don't reach.

Nor do 99% of the public sector reach 2 million equivalent either, given the average PS pension paid in the link denny posted is €18,800!! (so, well under a 2 million pot equivalent)

[Keane]

also a decent historical education would alert people to the fact that many advanced civilisations have declined in the past due to overshooting their resources- only difference this time is scale.

Can't get this out of my head. Who are we talking about here?

[zuutroy]

Old scheme for me

[coillcam]

For the private pensioneers, what's the best thing to do when you jump ship to a new role?

I can't get into the work scheme until the usual 6-month probation date expires. Do I wait and do a lump sum or is it best to set something up myself in the meantime?

[Denny Crane]

Can't get this out of my head. Who are we talking about here?

Easter Island type places I guess.

[oleras]

Can't get this out of my head. Who are we talking about here?

Mayans? Those that survived started a motorcycle club i heard.

[Theresa]

This pension conversation tilts the fuck out of me. Irelands approach to it is just so terrible.

[ComradeCollie]

This pension conversation tilts the fuck out of me. Irelands approach to it is just so terrible.

I was more annoyed by people talking about poker

[Lazare]

Just popped the head in to see if yizzer still boring on about pensions.