Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - Wordle Gummidge

[Raoul Duke III]

Why would you read the bible?

Some tremendous stories in the Old Testament

[ComradeCollie]

Why would you read the bible?

When you go to a Quaker meeting, you have an hour sitting in a room and that's the suggested and only provided reading material. Would have read it previously when I was a chaplains assistant for a year, back in the day. Not like that would have been the first time though.

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[Dice75]

When you go to a Quaker meeting, you have an hour sitting in a room and that's the suggested and only provided reading material. Would have read it previously when I was a chaplains assistant for a year, back in the day. Not like that would have been the first time though.

Are they the crowd behind me up the mountains?

Edit - seems they;re nacukie whatever the fook that is

Have them one end and Tom Cruise's lot at the other end, a veritable hotbed

[ComradeCollie]

Are they the crowd behind me up the mountains?

I don't use google, so you'll have to tell me what 'me up the mountains' is. They're historically big into chocolate!

[Dice75]

I don't use google, so you'll have to tell me what 'me up the mountains' is. They're historically big into chocolate!

*Reads the Bible
*Doesn't use Google

[ComradeCollie]

*Reads the Bible
*Doesn't use Google

Was expecting more comments on

when I was a chaplains assistant for a year

, though maybe we have discussed that previously.

[hotspur]

Just googled Buddhist loving kindness meditation there and was delighted Hotspur to discover I hadn't been lied to for 7 years. It's right there at the top of the page. There are also some videos if you feel inclined.

I'm going to pursue this, not to win an argument with you, but because I think it's quote important that as a Buddhist you don't believe that the Buddha taught that to love others you need to love yourself first. It's an unBuddhist perspective, and I think it will harm your practice if you believe it.

It seems like the source of your knowledge that the Buddha taught this view is that the metta bhavana is commonly taught with the first stage being metta for oneself. This is true, it is commonly taught this way. The first appearance of the version of the metta bhavana involving stages corresponding to different people is in the Vimuttimagga around the 1st century CE, and it became influential due to it being included in Buddaghosa's Visuddhimagga in the 5th century CE.

The metta bhavana (like all the Bhramaviharas) was a Vedic practice which pre-dated the Buddha. If you look to the Suttas as to how the Buddha taught it he taught the stages as being the directions - you send metta in front of you, then behind you etc. The Buddha did not teach the metta bhavana in the form it is commonly taught today with the stages of oneself, good friend, neutral person, enemy, all beings.

But even if he had taught it in that form it would in no way imply that you have to love yourself before you can love other people. You have put words into the Buddha's mouth that he did not say, and is contrary to the essential ethos of Buddhism. Unfortunately you do find people giving these fake quotes online.There is a website called Fake Buddha Quotes which debunks fake quotes. Here it is debunking the quote that you must love yourself before another.

But just look to your own experience. You said that you have had a tough time feeling love for yourself over the years (me too), in that time was it the case that you didn't feel metta for others?

There is the capacity to feel metta for ourselves, the capacity to feel it for others, and the capacity to take in the metta that people feel for us. These three capacities are not the same, and we each have different profiles of them. It is eminently possible to have metta and compassion for others and not have it strongly for oneself. If you believe that you need to have it for yourself first and spend a lot of your time concentrating on trying to develop that first then you will suffer due to the overly self focused nature of it.

With metta.

edit: I've just realised that probably only Limpwhacker would get the import of the dates I mentioned - the Buddha lived 500-1000 years before those mentioned texts.

[Solksjaer!]

I had a meal tonight that was good enough for Jehovah himself

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[Strewelpeter]

[Lazare]

Was expecting more comments on , though maybe we have discussed that previously.

It's the going to Quaker meetings that piqued.

[Strewelpeter]

No matter what religion you look at the deeper you dig the more you discover it to be built on pillars of opression and coontrol.

I remember being struck on a visit through the Chester Beatty museum how as religions evolved they evolve over time they move from being very simple stories that helped build social cohesion and healthy ways of people living together while dealing with the rapid and exponential changes in society through from the beginning of farming to the iron age. The likes of Judaism stands in strong contrast to its later sects and especially to later iterations like Islam which is really the same thing with many layers of petty and arcane rules that serve only to reinforce control and obedience.

The closest I ever became to being convinced of any church being a valuable institution was from this interview with Rabbi Jonathan Sacks (not currently live )and some digging I did into his lectures on you tube and elsewhere after.

[Lazare]

The dawn of agriculture and of humanity being geographically rooted was the dawn of organised religion.

Was also the beginning of the patriarchy.

[hotspur]

No matter what religion you look at the deeper you dig the more you discover it to be built on pillars of opression and coontrol.

I am sceptical of the breadth and depth of your examination of all religions and your conclusion.

[Guest]

Real question is how many extra cycles of reincarnation will dean rock be condemned to for his greedy cash grab?

[Lazare]

Real question is how many extra cycles of reincarnation will dean rock be condemned to for his greedy cash grab?

Did you consider at all when you first posted about Dean Rock's far from free taking that it would lead to a philosophical discussion of Buddhism?

[Guest]

One things for sure: they're all makey uppey bullshit.

[limpwhacker]

I'm going to pursue this, not to win an argument with you, but because I think it's quote important that as a Buddhist you don't believe that the Buddha taught that to love others you need to love yourself first. It's an unBuddhist perspective, and I think it will harm your practice if you believe it.

It seems like the source of your knowledge that the Buddha taught this view is that the metta bhavana is commonly taught with the first stage being metta for oneself. This is true, it is commonly taught this way. The first appearance of the version of the metta bhavana involving stages corresponding to different people is in the Vimuttimagga around the 1st century CE, and it became influential due to it being included in Buddaghosa's Visuddhimagga in the 5th century CE.

The metta bhavana (like all the Bhramaviharas) was a Vedic practice which pre-dated the Buddha. If you look to the Suttas as to how the Buddha taught it he taught the stages as being the directions - you send metta in front of you, then behind you etc. The Buddha did not teach the metta bhavana in the form it is commonly taught today with the stages of oneself, good friend, neutral person, enemy, all beings.

But even if he had taught it in that form it would in no way imply that you have to love yourself before you can love other people. You have put words into the Buddha's mouth that he did not say, and is contrary to the essential ethos of Buddhism. Unfortunately you do find people giving these fake quotes online.There is a website called Fake Buddha Quotes which debunks fake quotes. Here it is debunking the quote that you must love yourself before another.

But just look to your own experience. You said that you have had a tough time feeling love for yourself over the years (me too), in that time was it the case that you didn't feel metta for others?

There is the capacity to feel metta for ourselves, the capacity to feel it for others, and the capacity to take in the metta that people feel for us. These three capacities are not the same, and we each have different profiles of them. It is eminently possible to have metta and compassion for others and not have it strongly for oneself. If you believe that you need to have it for yourself first and spend a lot of your time concentrating on trying to develop that first then you will suffer due to the overly self focused nature of it.

With metta.

edit: I've just realised that probably only Limpwhacker would get the import of the dates I mentioned - the Buddha lived 500-1000 years before those mentioned texts.

I agree in large part with the argument you have put forward. It's abundantly clear that we are going to arriving too close to fulfilling in providing a slap down Buddhist set to which hitch would love to see. I enjoyed the convo a lot and Learnt a lot I didn't know. I'm going to use my get out of call card in this instance.My get out of jail free card. Equanimity and kindness. Equanimity as Buddhist.belifs requires us to treat all sentient beings with equanimity regardless of whether we like them or hate them or think they all. In lay man's terms try and love with equanimity the dog on the street or the mosquito on your arm or your nearest and closest .friends and family . Manage that and destroy your ego and your well on the way to Buddaville. Treating people well and carrying out random acts of kindness helps others but helps you enormously as well. Sorry your never going to see a Buddhist slapdown - that's never happening in this lifetime or any other lifetime. For anyone who is interested in dipping their toes in Buddhist waters the Buddha gave a brilliant teaching in relation to Fear. I'm sure it's findable on you tube or Google. Which reminds me of name given to me by Dzigar Kontrul with whom I took refuge. My parents called my Brian or black sheep Stephen Murphy christened me Limpwhacker due to my propensity to limp most monster hands with a view to 3 bet 4 bet whack it in and pray for the hand to hold. Dzigar Kontrul bestowed the name Fearless Jewel on me when I sought refuge in the dharma. I like Dzigars name best

[Hectorjelly]

Definitely not incense.

[oleras]

The dawn of agriculture and of humanity being geographically rooted was the dawn of organised religion.

Was also the beginning of the patriarchy.

You say that like its a bad thing !

[dinekes]

Worked with this girl years ago in our twenties.
She was strong willed and principled with a good sense of humour.
Only found out that she was also devoted to collecting for charities when she was featured in a newspaper shaking a can in front of Bill Clinton back then in the nineties.

Respected and liked her.

Googled her recently to find out she's the CEO of a charity helping marginalised people with disabilities.

Warrior.

Not a fan of religion at all but a big fan of people who get things done as best they can.

[ComradeCollie]

One things for sure: they're all makey uppey bullshit.

You say that like its a bad thing !

[mocata]

Evaluating 2 job applicants at the moment. Both for graduate role, one with a first, the other with a 2:1 and finishing a masters.
Masters guy grilled our HR manager mercilessly on pension details (which delighted me no end as am 99% sure HR had never even been asked the question before) wanted 25% more starting salary as well. He has 50min commute vs 30 min for other guy. Also was upfront about saying he would like to work from home 1 or 2 days as a general rule (role would suit this arrangement)
The other guy asked how much he would he paid and seemed happy with first offer. Both likeable, both sharp. Their project examples were both excellent.
The masters guy has worked in a big tech company intern programme, initiative was mothballed and numbers didnt add up for him to move. Has actually worked on things similar to what his job role will entail. The other guy I am sure would be capable of doing same with training and time, both of which are planned and funded.
Anyone been in similar situations and have any thoughts?

[Raoul Duke III]

There was a Buddhist called Limpwhacker
Who claimed Hotspur was only a knacker
He went to his shrine
Asked Buddha for a sign
Was he a cruel karma attacker?

[Solksjaer!]

Evaluating 2 job applicants at the moment. Both for graduate role, one with a first, the other with a 2:1 and finishing a masters.
Masters guy grilled our HR manager mercilessly on pension details (which delighted me no end as am 99% sure HR had never even been asked the question before) wanted 25% more starting salary as well. He has 50min commute vs 30 min for other guy. Also was upfront about saying he would like to work from home 1 or 2 days as a general rule (role would suit this arrangement)
The other guy asked how much he would he paid and seemed happy with first offer. Both likeable, both sharp. Their project examples were both excellent.
The masters guy has worked in a big tech company intern programme, initiative was mothballed and numbers didnt add up for him to move. Has actually worked on things similar to what his job role will entail. The other guy I am sure would be capable of doing same with training and time, both of which are planned and funded.
Anyone been in similar situations and have any thoughts?

Hire the white one obviously.

[Degag]

Evaluating 2 job applicants at the moment. Both for graduate role, one with a first, the other with a 2:1 and finishing a masters.
Masters guy grilled our HR manager mercilessly on pension details (which delighted me no end as am 99% sure HR had never even been asked the question before) wanted 25% more starting salary as well. He has 50min commute vs 30 min for other guy. Also was upfront about saying he would like to work from home 1 or 2 days as a general rule (role would suit this arrangement)
The other guy asked how much he would he paid and seemed happy with first offer. Both likeable, both sharp. Their project examples were both excellent.

Thought asking how much you are going to be paid in an interview was a no-no. Times have obviously changed?

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[shrapnel]

Oh I'd be going in your direction and getting the Masters guy. The 25% of a graduate scheme salary is probably nothing at the end of the day, and he's clearly going to be coming in to grow and eventually manage.

Yeah but most likely a pain in the hole and will behave like a self entitled prick as he got everything he was asking for and will have demand after demand all the time. A manager's nightmare without a doubt.

[shrapnel]

Thought asking how much you are going to be paid in an interview was a no-no. Times have obviously changed?

You'd already know what they are offering (a range at leas) prior to accepting the interview.

[limpwhacker]

There was a Buddhist called Limpwhacker
Who claimed Hotspur was only a knacker
He went to his shrine
Asked Buddha for a sign
Was he a cruel karma attacker?

You're a gas c*nt . I laughed a lot at your Limerick but Hotspur is no knacker any man that has a shrine in his gaff is all right by me. It's the rest that are knackers FFS . Had a long chat with Buddha this morning and he said to say hello to ye all.

[Solksjaer!]

You're a gas c*nt . I laughed a lot at your Limerick but Hotspur is no knacker any man that has a shrine in his gaff is all right by me. It's the rest that are knackers FFS . Had a long chat with Buddha this morning and he said to say hello to ye all.

How are ya buddies

[Lao Lao]

I'm very much against all forms of organised religion but I do have a soft spot for Buddhism.

It probably stems from spending about 6 months in SE Asia many years ago, it was such a great time.

I can't remember if I've told the story of our day trip around Lop Buri before or not, I'm sure I have, it was one of the most surreal days I've ever experienced.

So this is an extract from a chapter of a book I started to write years ago and never got around to finishing.

Fair warning, it's bloody long!

TLDR - Lop Buri is the Asian Twilight zone!




There was a ringing in the distance, it seemed to be getting louder. The louder it got, the more my head hurt. I tried hard to open my eyes but there was something stuck to the right side of my face, a piece of paper. The ringing got louder. I peeled the paper from my face. There was a phone in the room and although it was still dark, I traced the sound and picked it up gingerly.

‘Haloo Sir'

‘..Eh…hello’

‘Mr Pick for you sir, he wait you now’

Sorry…pi..pick where…wh..what am I picking….'

‘Mr Pick sir, he wait you in reception, thank you sir’

‘Right….yeah..em….’

The phone went dead. I fumbled around for the light and read what had been stuck to my face;


WHITE GARDEN RESTAURANT

SPECIAL DAY TOUR X 2

PRICE : BAHT 300

PICK UP : 8:00 AM

MR PIK

‘Oh Shit’ – The memories of last night came flooding back; the restaurant, Thai whiskey, beer, the 7-11 store, Thai whiskey, the football, beer, Kylie, Thai whiskey, Kermit the Frog, beer and some more Thai whiskey. My head was so sore.

Last night had been the eve of Stuart’s birthday and we had just arrived in Lop Buri, an hour and a half train ride north of Ayuthaya. It was all still a bit of a haze. We had got a rickshaw from the station and checked into the Hotel Asia. Despite the corridors looking like the inside of a 1960’s prison situated in a Russian satellite state, the rooms were very plush indeed with en suite bathroom, marble tiled floors, a TV and now a phone. The staff emphasised the fact that the sheets were changed the morning we arrived and on that fact alone, it clearly deserved its 3 star rating from the Lonely Planet.

Being a Sunday, we found that there was not a lot to do in Lop Buri, but we managed to find a restaurant by the name of The White Garden. The owner, Mr Pik, had fed us and filled us with beer and Thai whiskey and even somehow managed to get Ste and I to sign up and pay for a tour starting at 8am. The whiskey and beer could have been part of his sales pitch, but I really can’t remember. Stuart’s powers of resistance where much greater than ours and he managed to keep saying no.

With the restaurant closed, the only other place open in Lop Buri was the local 7-11. When I was a kid, there was a 7-11 near where I lived. They used to sell Slush Puppies, green ones for a month before and after St. Patricks Day, long red strips of liquorish and ten penny bags of sweets. All of these were missing from the Lop Buri 7-11 but in their place was beer and Thai whiskey. The kid inside me was a little bit upset at the lack of nostalgia, but the adult inside of me swiftly told the kid to shut up or we wouldn’t get served

With beer and whiskey stocks in hand, we returned to our hotel room where we had the pleasure of live premiership football, followed by ‘An Audience with Kylie Minogue’ which included a special duet with Kermit the Frog, something for both the adult and the child inside me!


After the wake up call, I somehow managed to get Ste out of his bed, stood under the shower for ten seconds and then made my way down through cell block H and into the reception area closely followed by Ste. In reception stood a man who I didn’t recall as Mr Pik but then again Thai whiskey is quite strong.

‘Mr Pik?’ I questioned cautiously

‘No sir, I Mr Pik driver, come, people wait, come, people wait’

And he was telling the truth. In the back of our tuk-tuk type taxi waiting outside were two Danish girls by the name of Stine and Anne. We managed to disguise the fact that we were still in fact drunk, introduced ourselves, took our seats and away we went. It was only at this point that I started to think about where we were actually going. What was the itinerary again?…an Aids Hospice, A Buddhist Temple, the Buddha Footprint…wait, hang on a second, an Aids Hospice? We couldn’t be going to an Aids Hospice. I must have got that wrong, picked it up from a news snippet in-between the football and Kylie.

‘Do you know where we’re going on this tour?’ It was a general question aimed at the three others in the back of the tuk-tuk

‘You’re a bit worried about the Aids Hospice?’ ventured Stine

I hadn’t got it wrong. We were going to an Aids Hospice as part of our tour of Lop Buri. There was a lengthy silence. We were all thinking the same thing, but nobody wanted to be the first to say it. Eventually I broke the silence;

‘Does anybody think that this is a kinda strange thing to be on a tourist trail?’

We all agreed that it was a bit odd. I mean, you don’t get on a Dublin Bus Tour, look down at your guide book and think: ‘Oh, I’m looking forward to seeing the Book of Kells in Trinity College, can’t wait to taste a pint of Guinness in the brewery at James Gate, and this new stop may prove interesting, the Intensive Care Unit at Beaumont Hospital.’

We hadn’t much more time to think about it as we soon arrived at the Hospice. We were all clearly uncomfortable as we ambled out of the tuk-tuk. We were met by a rather stern looking middle aged Swedish nurse at the entrance.

‘Hello, Can I help you? Are you new volunteers?’

My heart sank further. We had been told by Mr Pik to ask for Lenie

‘Eh, no, we’re not volunteers; we’re here to see Lenie'

‘Lenie? I do not know any Lenie.’ Her voice seemed to sound sterner with every word she spoke.

‘Well…yeah…Mr Pik told us to ask for….’

‘Mr Pik? I do not know a Mr Pik or a Lenie. Do you have any medical experience?’

Just then, a tall, dark haired, orderly, dressed completely in white walked past us and overheard our conversation

I know Lenie, she’s working here as a volunteer. I’ll take you to see her’

'Thanks!’ we all echoed in a chorus of relief as we scurried out the line of sight of the matrons glare.

Lenie was a middle-aged Dutch woman who met us with a friendly smile and a welcoming handshake. We explained that Mr Pik had sent us and things started to become clear. Lenie had recently been into town and ate at Mr Pik’s restaurant. In conversation, she had told him what she was doing in Lop Buri and Mr Pik had decided to add this leg to his tour, without her knowledge or consent. Nevertheless, she kindly offered to show us around and tell us all about the Hospice. We questioned whether we should be there since we might be intruding on the patients’ privacy.

‘Trust me. You won’t be intruding.’ she replied, as she beckoned us to follow her.

So trust her we did and as a result, I witnessed the most humbling experience of my life.

The hospice was founded by local Buddhist monks, was situated on land owned by the monks, but unfortunately that was where their involvement ended. They did not provide any financial assistance in the running of the hospice. Infact there was very little financial assistance at all. All of the people that worked there were volunteers and the hospice did not even have enough money to buy proper medicine for the patients.

Our tour around the Hospice started in an area where all the patients were terminal. There was no more that could be done for these people, except to try and make them comfortable in their last days. Their immune system had completely shut down, resulting in the loss of nearly all of their body weight. What lay in front of us was tragically sad. One of the patients offered his hand to shake and I did so. Suddenly, from a look of total despair, a huge, ear to ear, smile beamed across his face.

What we didn’t know was, that in Thailand, education regarding HIV/AIDS is extremely poor. A lot of people believe that if you are in the same room with or in any way touch somebody who has contracted HIV/AIDS then you too will be infected. All of the people in the Hospice were quite literally dumped there by their families, families never returned to visit them. The majority would not even return to collect the bodies of their loved ones after they had passed away. I knew little to no Thai and the man that lay in front of me could speak no English. But that didn’t matter. The look of joy on his face clearly showed he was happy. He was happy that I was not afraid to stand near him and shake his hand. His smile transcended all languages. I fought back the tears and the best I could do was to smile back.

Lenie must have known that we were all a bit upset as she didn’t keep us in the ward for too long. She brought us outside of the main building and showed us where some more of the residents stayed. These were people who still looked quite healthy and were able to help out with the day to day jobs around the Hospice. The spirit, bravery and courage they displayed was astounding. They had seen friends die in the Hospice and knew they would have the same fate. They knew that there was nothing that could be done to save them. They knew that it was only a matter of time before they ended up in the ward we’d just come from. But yet, they were so happy and content to sit with us, watch and listen to us talk to Lenie and try to speak some English to us, all the time smiling, just because we were there.

We were introduced to the HIV Band, a group of residents who were all musicians. Every so often, they would travel to Bangkok and Chang Mai to play a gig in order to raise funds for the Hospice. The bass and guitar player played a few tunes for us and they were absolutely brilliant. Sadly, the line up of the band changes regularly. The members’ health eventually deteriorates and they ultimately die, but the band goes on as new people arrive at the Hospice. Lenie explained to us that on average 5-6 people died in the Hospice each week, men, women and children.

The next place that Lenie showed us was just too much for me. It was called the ‘After Death Room.’ Here was an attempt to try and educate people a bit more about HIV/AIDS. In this room were the preserved bodies of people who had died at the Hospice. The range was broad, a one year old baby, a seven year old child, a lady-boy, a male doctor and a housewife. The message was brutally stark. In a country like Thailand where HIV/AIDS is so rampant and education is so poor, the virus does not discriminate between age, sex or lifestyle. I stood in front of the body of the seven year old child. All I could think about was my niece back home who was of a similar age. It all became too much for me. I had to leave the room and wait outside for the others.

After two hours of talking with Lenie and the residents, we bought some handcrafts made by the residents. The money we paid for them would not make any significant difference to the Hospice, but it felt like it gave them great dignity to be able to raise funds for their fellow friends. From there we said our goodbyes and headed back to our tuk-tuk driver who was anxious to continue on with the tour.

We climbed back into the tuk-tuk and slowly pulled away from the AIDS Hospice. There was an almost awkward silence for a few minutes. Gradually we began to talk among ourselves about what we had just witnessed. Our driver however did not join in. He seemed unconfortable about having to be bring us to the hospice and sat in silence as he drove.

Our next stop was to be Wat Tham Krabok, a large Buddhist Temple run by Monk Gordon. Mr Pik had shown us pictures of Monk Gordon, who remarkably had an uncanny resemblance to a certain Samuel L Jackson. As we pulled up to Wat Tham Krabok, we saw Monk Gordon approach us. From our knowledge and experience so far of Buddhism and Monks, we were not expecting the welcome we received.

‘Howdo, How are ya’ boomed a huge American accent. ‘Come on in, nice to meet you, who the hell are ya?’

Baffled and a little shell-shocked, we hopped down from the tuk-tuk, introduced ourselves and told him that we were part of the tour that Mr Pik had organised. We were not surprised to hear that he didn’t know of Mr Pik and that he wasn’t expecting us, but that didn’t matter. He was genuinely glad that we were there.

He brought us to one of the sanctuary areas. It was a large, impressive colosseum type building. The floor was completely covered in marble tiles and instead of walls, we were surrounded by forty foot tall pillars, each a couple of metres apart. The pillars held up a very decorative cone shaped roof. In the centre of the floor, there was an area cornered off by a small railing which contained statues and images of the Buddha. As with all Buddhists areas of worship, we had to remove our footwear before entering and once inside, Monk Gordon sat down on the floor and beckoned us to join him.

Once we were all comfortable, he again apologised for not being ready to greet us as he was not aware of us coming. We all felt that it should be us apologising to him, but he would not entertain this at all. He could see that we were clearly anxious to ask him a few questions about how he ended up at his present location.

What unfolded was probably one of the most bizarre stories I have ever heard.

Monk Gordon, as his accent suggested, was American, a native of New York. He told us that he used to be a member of the Foreign Legion, a mercenary who travelled the world fighting wars and battles that did not involve him or his country but paid well. Judging by his physique he would have been a formidable combatant. Just over fifteen years ago, he was on a mission in Thailand when the jeep he was driving broke down. Despite his considerable mechanical knowledge, he was unable to fix the problem and set out on foot to find shelter and an alternative method of transport.

After walking for almost an hour, he noticed Wat Tham Krabok in the distance and made his way there. On arrival, he was greeted at the gates by the elder monk of the temple, a monk that until this point had never spoken a word of English. The elder monk opened his arms and said ‘I have been waiting for you.’ Over the course of the next six months, the elder monk taught Monk Gordon every aspect of Buddhist life and how the temple was and should be run. Suddenly after six months, the elder monk died and Monk Gordon succeeded him as the elder monk of the temple.

He went on to explain how he completely turned his back on the Foreign Legion and his former life and instead adopted just about every aspect and principle of a Buddhist monk, even to the extreme whereby he would no longer travels on public transport, instead opting to walk the 306 kilometre round trip to Bangkok when needed.

But there were several differences between the monks of Wat Tham Krabok and that of the balance of the Buddhist order. The most obvious and noticeable difference was that they wore brown robes instead of the customary orange. Monk Gordon explained to us that this was due to the fact that they did not preach or try to enforce the principles of Buddhism on people who did not already subscribe to this way of thinking.

Instead, he spoke about something that is quite hard to put into words, but something that really hit home. He went on to describe their main philosophy as that of belief and that everybody should believe in something. You can believe in God, Buddha, Allah or any other figure head of a religious body if you want but it was not necessary to be religious or spiritual. Your belief could be a set of principles of how to lead a good life that benefited not only you but the others around you. Your belief could be that you believed in your parents, your mother and father and your family. The manner and topic of his speech was very profound but made so much sense in a very simplistic way.

If this was not enough, Monk Gordon then confided in us that the temple was not your average run of the mill temple. It was in fact a rehab centre, which at any one time could accommodate up to a thousand patients. At this point he offered to show us around the whole complex and further explain how the rehab centre worked.

While on a pretty detailed tour, Monk Gordon spoke to us at length about the rehab centre and why, as Stine pointed out, that all the other monks carried two way radios! He explained that while they dealt with all forms of addiction, drug abuse was the main reason for patients to be admitted to the temple. He told us of their de-tox method, which involved patients going cold turkey in solidarity confinement for the first ten days of arrival while being fed a green liquidised herbal drink which cleansed their internal system completely.

From there, the new resident would join the larger community of the temple, however I couldn’t help but feel that they were treated more like inmates than patients. The dwelling quarters were at best described as fair while their exercise area resembled that of a school playground, a medium sized piece of concrete that was fenced in from all sides, with all four entrances/exits equipped with a lock and chain.

Monk Gordon explained to us that drug abuse was a massive problem in the Lop Buri area as in the surrounding hills, the Thai opium dealers grew and cultivated their product for sale to the general public. In being the head of the temple and therefore the rehab centre, he had become a sworn enemy of the drug dealers and as such had a substantial bounty on his head. In order to protect him and the other monks, they had set up their own security detail which monitored the perimeter of the temple grounds and therefore needed the two way radios to keep close contact.

After spending just over two hours with Monk Gordon, it was time to return to our tuk-tuk and continue our tour. We thanked him again for his time and made a small donation to the running of the temple. In return Monk Gordon gave us a phone number, a number that he claimed could be reached at all times. His parting words to us were that if we were ever in trouble, any where in the world, that we were to call this number. His monastery allegedly had a worldwide network that would be able to collect you from anywhere in the world and get us to the safety of Wat Tham Krabok temple within seventy-two hours

As we pulled away from the temple, my mind went into overdrive. I had been still coming to terms with the Aids Hospice when we arrived at Wat Tham Krabok and was certainly not prepared for what we experienced. The talk given by Monk Gordon about religion, spirituality and the whole concept of belief really hit home and made so much sense but the rehab centre, drug dealers, monks with two way radios and Monk Gordon having a price on his head was to say the least bizarre. After openly discussing it between the four of us, we couldn’t and still can’t work out whether it was all true and above board or whether he was actually the head of the local drug cartel who had fronted an extreme and elaborate cover to his drug running business.

We had only one stop left on our itinerary, the Buddha footprint. Based on our experience at our first two ports of call, we were expecting a lot from our final destination. Unfortunately, we were greatly disappointed. The Buddha’s footprint was situated in a grand temple full of statues and images of the Buddha and in the centre was an extremely large gold piece in the shape of a footprint. We spoke to nobody at the temple because there was nobody there to speak to. After spending over two hours with Lenie at the Aids Hospice and over two hours with Monk Gordon at Wat Tham Krabok, we spent the grand total of two minutes at the Buddha’s footprint and swiftly returned to out tuk-tuk driver for our drive home to Lop Buri.

[Lazare]

I would be hiring the less assertive of those two guys Mocata, the other fella sounds like he will jump ship at the first head hunting opportunity.

Also sounds like he will be a pain in the hole to manage.

[Lazare]

So this is an extract from a chapter of a book I started to write years ago and never got around to finishing.

Fair warning, it's bloody long!

TLDR - Lop Buri is the Asian Twilight zone!

SPOILER

There was a ringing in the distance, it seemed to be getting louder. The louder it got, the more my head hurt. I tried hard to open my eyes but there was something stuck to the right side of my face, a piece of paper. The ringing got louder. I peeled the paper from my face. There was a phone in the room and although it was still dark, I traced the sound and picked it up gingerly.

SPOILER

‘Haloo Sir’


‘..Eh…hello’


‘Mr Pick for you sir, he wait you now’


‘Sorry…pi..pick where…wh..what am I picking….’


‘Mr Pick sir, he wait you in reception, thank you sir’


‘Right….yeah..em….’


The phone went dead. I fumbled around for the light and read what had been stuck to my face;


WHITE GARDEN RESTAURANT


SPECIAL DAY TOUR X 2



PRICE : BAHT 300


PICK UP : 8:00 AM


MR PIK


‘Oh Shit’ – The memories of last night came flooding back; the restaurant, Thai whiskey, beer, the 7-11 store, Thai whiskey, the football, beer, Kylie, Thai whiskey, Kermit the Frog, beer and some more Thai whiskey. My head was so sore.


Last night had been the eve of Stuart’s birthday and we had just arrived in Lop Buri, an hour and a half train ride north of Ayuthaya. It was all still a bit of a haze. We had got a rickshaw from the station and checked into the Hotel Asia. Despite the corridors looking like the inside of a 1960’s prison situated in a Russian satellite state, the rooms were very plush indeed with en suite bathroom, marble tiled floors, a TV and now a phone. The staff emphasised the fact that the sheets were changed the morning we arrived and on that fact alone, it clearly deserved its 3 star rating from the Lonely Planet.


Being a Sunday, we found that there was not a lot to do in Lop Buri, but we managed to find a restaurant by the name of The White Garden. The owner, Mr Pik, had fed us and filled us with beer and Thai whiskey and even somehow managed to get Ste and I to sign up and pay for a tour starting at 8am. The whiskey and beer could have been part of his sales pitch, but I really can’t remember. Stuart’s powers of resistance where much greater than ours and he managed to keep saying no.


With the restaurant closed, the only other place open in Lop Buri was the local 7-11. When I was a kid, there was a 7-11 near where I lived. They used to sell Slush Puppies, green ones for a month before and after St. Patricks Day, long red strips of liquorish and ten penny bags of sweets. All of these were missing from the Lop Buri 7-11 but in their place was beer and Thai whiskey. The kid inside me was a little bit upset at the lack of nostalgia, but the adult inside of me swiftly told the kid to shut up or we wouldn’t get served.


With beer and whiskey stocks in hand, we returned to our hotel room where we had the pleasure of live premiership football, followed by ‘An Audience with Kylie Minogue’ which included a special duet with Kermit the Frog, something for both the adult and the child inside me!



After the wake up call, I somehow managed to get Ste out of his bed, stood under the shower for ten seconds and then made my way down through cell block H and into the reception area closely followed by Ste. In reception stood a man who I didn’t recall as Mr Pik but then again Thai whiskey is quite strong.


‘Mr Pik?’ I questioned cautiously


‘No sir, I Mr Pik driver, come, people wait, come, people wait’


And he was telling the truth. In the back of our tuk-tuk type taxi waiting outside were two Danish girls by the name of Stine and Anne. We managed to disguise the fact that we were still in fact drunk, introduced ourselves, took our seats and away we went. It was only at this point that I started to think about where we were actually going. What was the itinerary again?…an Aids Hospice, A Buddhist Temple, the Buddha Footprint…wait, hang on a second, an Aids Hospice? We couldn’t be going to an Aids Hospice. I must have got that wrong, picked it up from a news snippet in-between the football and Kylie.


‘Do you know where we’re going on this tour?’ It was a general question aimed at the

three others in the back of the tuk-tuk


‘You’re a bit worried about the Aids Hospice?’ ventured Stine


I hadn’t got it wrong. We were going to an Aids Hospice as part of our tour of Lop Buri. There was a lengthy silence. We were all thinking the same thing, but nobody wanted to be the first to say it. Eventually I broke the silence;


‘Does anybody think that this is a kinda strange thing to be on a tourist trail?’


We all agreed that it was a bit odd. I mean, you don’t get on a Dublin Bus Tour, look down at your guide book and think: ‘Oh, I’m looking forward to seeing the Book of Kells in Trinity College, can’t wait to taste a pint of Guinness in the brewery at James Gate, and this new stop may prove interesting, the Intensive Care Unit at Beaumont Hospital.’


We hadn’t much more time to think about it as we soon arrived at the Hospice. We were all clearly uncomfortable as we ambled out of the tuk-tuk. We were met by a rather stern looking middle aged Swedish nurse at the entrance.


‘Hello, Can I help you? Are you new volunteers?’


My heart sank further. We had been told by Mr Pik to ask for Lenie.


‘Eh, no, we’re not volunteers; we’re here to see Lenie.’


‘Lenie? I do not know any Lenie.’ Her voice seemed to sound sterner with every word she spoke.


‘Well…yeah…Mr Pik told us to ask for….’


‘Mr Pik? I do not know a Mr Pik or a Lenie. Do you have any medical experience?’


Just then, a tall, dark haired, orderly, dressed completely in white walked past us and overheard our conversation.


‘I know Lenie, she’s working here as a volunteer. I’ll take you to see her’


‘Thanks!’ we all echoed in a chorus of relief as we scurried out the line of sight of the matrons glare.


Lenie was a middle-aged Dutch woman who met us with a friendly smile and a welcoming handshake. We explained that Mr Pik had sent us and things started to become clear. Lenie had recently been into town and ate at Mr Pik’s restaurant. In conversation, she had told him what she was doing in Lop Buri and Mr Pik had decided to add this leg to his tour, without her knowledge or consent. Nevertheless, she kindly offered to show us around and tell us all about the Hospice. We questioned whether we should be there since we might be intruding on the patients’ privacy.


‘Trust me. You won’t be intruding.’ she replied, as she beckoned us to follow her.


So trust her we did and as a result, I witnessed the most humbling experience of my life.


The hospice was founded by local Buddhist monks, was situated on land owned by the monks, but unfortunately that was where their involvement ended. They did not provide any financial assistance in the running of the hospice. Infact there was very little financial assistance at all. All of the people that worked there were volunteers and the hospice did not even have enough money to buy proper medicine for the patients.


Our tour around the Hospice started in an area where all the patients were terminal. There was no more that could be done for these people, except to try and make them comfortable in their last days. Their immune system had completely shut down, resulting in the loss of nearly all of their body weight. What lay in front of us was tragically sad. One of the patients offered his hand to shake and I did so. Suddenly, from a look of total despair, a huge, ear to ear, smile beamed across his face.


What we didn’t know was, that in Thailand, education regarding HIV/AIDS is extremely poor. A lot of people believe that if you are in the same room with or in any way touch somebody who has contracted HIV/AIDS then you too will be infected. All of the people in the Hospice were quite literally dumped there by their families, families never returned to visit them. The majority would not even return to collect the bodies of their loved ones after they had passed away. I knew little to no Thai and the man that lay in front of me could speak no English. But that didn’t matter. The look of joy on his face clearly showed he was happy. He was happy that I was not afraid to stand near him and shake his hand. His smile transcended all languages. I fought back the tears and the best I could do was to smile back.


Lenie must have known that we were all a bit upset as she didn’t keep us in the ward for too long. She brought us outside of the main building and showed us where some more of the residents stayed. These were people who still looked quite healthy and were able to help out with the day to day jobs around the Hospice. The spirit, bravery and courage they displayed was astounding. They had seen friends die in the Hospice and knew they would have the same fate. They knew that there was nothing that could be done to save them. They knew that it was only a matter of time before they ended up in the ward we’d just come from. But yet, they were so happy and content to sit with us, watch and listen to us talk to Lenie and try to speak some English to us, all the time smiling, just because we were there.


We were introduced to the HIV Band, a group of residents who were all musicians. Every so often, they would travel to Bangkok and Chang Mai to play a gig in order to raise funds for the Hospice. The bass and guitar player played a few tunes for us and they were absolutely brilliant. Sadly, the line up of the band changes regularly. The members’ health eventually deteriorates and they ultimately die, but the band goes on as new people arrive at the Hospice. Lenie explained to us that on average 5-6 people died in the Hospice each week, men, women and children.


The next place that Lenie showed us was just too much for me. It was called the ‘After Death Room.’ Here was an attempt to try and educate people a bit more about HIV/AIDS. In this room were the preserved bodies of people who had died at the Hospice. The range was broad, a one year old baby, a seven year old child, a lady-boy, a male doctor and a housewife. The message was brutally stark. In a country like Thailand where HIV/AIDS is so rampant and education is so poor, the virus does not discriminate between age, sex or lifestyle. I stood in front of the body of the seven year old child. All I could think about was my niece back home who was of a similar age. It all became too much for me. I had to leave the room and wait outside for the others.


After two hours of talking with Lenie and the residents, we bought some handcrafts made by the residents. The money we paid for them would not make any significant difference to the Hospice, but it felt like it gave them great dignity to be able to raise funds for their fellow friends. From there we said our goodbyes and headed back to our tuk-tuk driver who was anxious to continue on with the tour.


We climbed back into the tuk-tuk and slowly pulled away from the AIDS Hospice. There was an almost awkward silence for a few minutes. Gradually we began to talk among ourselves about what we had just witnessed. Our driver however did not join in. He seemed unconfortable about having to be bring us to the hospice and sat in silence as he drove.


Our next stop was to be Wat Tham Krabok, a large Buddhist Temple run by Monk Gordon. Mr Pik had shown us pictures of Monk Gordon, who remarkably had an uncanny resemblance to a certain Samuel L Jackson. As we pulled up to Wat Tham Krabok, we saw Monk Gordon approach us. From our knowledge and experience so far of Buddhism and Monks, we were not expecting the welcome we received.


‘Howdo, How are ya’ boomed a huge American accent. ‘Come on in, nice to meet you, who the hell are ya?’


Baffled and a little shell-shocked, we hopped down from the tuk-tuk, introduced ourselves and told him that we were part of the tour that Mr Pik had organised. We were not surprised to hear that he didn’t know of Mr Pik and that he wasn’t expecting us, but that didn’t matter. He was genuinely glad that we were there.


He brought us to one of the sanctuary areas. It was a large, impressive colosseum type building. The floor was completely covered in marble tiles and instead of walls, we were surrounded by forty foot tall pillars, each a couple of metres apart. The pillars held up a very decorative cone shaped roof. In the centre of the floor, there was an area cornered off by a small railing which contained statues and images of the Buddha. As with all Buddhists areas of worship, we had to remove our footwear before entering and once inside, Monk Gordon sat down on the floor and beckoned us to join him.


Once we were all comfortable, he again apologised for not being ready to greet us as he was not aware of us coming. We all felt that it should be us apologising to him, but he would not entertain this at all. He could see that we were clearly anxious to ask him a few questions about how he ended up at his present location.


What unfolded was probably one of the most bizarre stories I have ever heard.


Monk Gordon, as his accent suggested, was American, a native of New York. He told us that he used to be a member of the Foreign Legion, a mercenary who travelled the world fighting wars and battles that did not involve him or his country but paid well. Judging by his physique he would have been a formidable combatant. Just over fifteen years ago, he was on a mission in Thailand when the jeep he was driving broke down. Despite his considerable mechanical knowledge, he was unable to fix the problem and set out on foot to find shelter and an alternative method of transport.


After walking for almost an hour, he noticed Wat Tham Krabok in the distance and made his way there. On arrival, he was greeted at the gates by the elder monk of the temple, a monk that until this point had never spoken a word of English. The elder monk opened his arms and said ‘I have been waiting for you.’ Over the course of the next six months, the elder monk taught Monk Gordon every aspect of Buddhist life and how the temple was and should be run. Suddenly after six months, the elder monk died and Monk Gordon succeeded him as the elder monk of the temple.


He went on to explain how he completely turned his back on the Foreign Legion and his former life and instead adopted just about every aspect and principle of a Buddhist monk, even to the extreme whereby he would no longer travels on public transport, instead opting to walk the 306 kilometre round trip to Bangkok when needed.


But there were several differences between the monks of Wat Tham Krabok and that of the balance of the Buddhist order. The most obvious and noticeable difference was that they wore brown robes instead of the customary orange. Monk Gordon explained to us that this was due to the fact that they did not preach or try to enforce the principles of Buddhism on people who did not already subscribe to this way of thinking.


Instead, he spoke about something that is quite hard to put into words, but something that really hit home. He went on to describe their main philosophy as that of belief and that everybody should believe in something. You can believe in God, Buddha, Allah or any other figure head of a religious body if you want but it was not necessary to be religious or spiritual. Your belief could be a set of principles of how to lead a good life that benefited not only you but the others around you. Your belief could be that you believed in your parents, your mother and father and your family. The manner and topic of his speech was very profound but made so much sense in a very simplistic way.


If this was not enough, Monk Gordon then confided in us that the temple was not your average run of the mill temple. It was in fact a rehab centre, which at any one time could accommodate up to a thousand patients. At this point he offered to show us around the whole complex and further explain how the rehab centre worked.


While on a pretty detailed tour, Monk Gordon spoke to us at length about the rehab centre and why, as Stine pointed out, that all the other monks carried two way radios! He explained that while they dealt with all forms of addiction, drug abuse was the main reason for patients to be admitted to the temple. He told us of their de-tox method, which involved patients going cold turkey in solidarity confinement for the first ten days of arrival while being fed a green liquidised herbal drink which cleansed their internal system completely.


From there, the new resident would join the larger community of the temple, however I couldn’t help but feel that they were treated more like inmates than patients. The dwelling quarters were at best described as fair while their exercise area resembled that of a school playground, a medium sized piece of concrete that was fenced in from all sides, with all four entrances/exits equipped with a lock and chain.


Monk Gordon explained to us that drug abuse was a massive problem in the Lop Buri area as in the surrounding hills, the Thai opium dealers grew and cultivated their product for sale to the general public. In being the head of the temple and therefore the rehab centre, he had become a sworn enemy of the drug dealers and as such had a substantial bounty on his head. In order to protect him and the other monks, they had set up their own security detail which monitored the perimeter of the temple grounds and therefore needed the two way radios to keep close contact.


After spending just over two hours with Monk Gordon, it was time to return to our tuk-tuk and continue our tour. We thanked him again for his time and made a small donation to the running of the temple. In return Monk Gordon gave us a phone number, a number that he claimed could be reached at all times. His parting words to us were that if we were ever in trouble, any where in the world, that we were to call this number. His monastery allegedly had a worldwide network that would be able to collect you from anywhere in the world and get us to the safety of Wat Tham Krabok temple within seventy-two hours.


As we pulled away from the temple, my mind went into overdrive. I had been still coming to terms with the Aids Hospice when we arrived at Wat Tham Krabok and was certainly not prepared for what we experienced. The talk given by Monk Gordon about religion, spirituality and the whole concept of belief really hit home and made so much sense but the rehab centre, drug dealers, monks with two way radios and Monk Gordon having a price on his head was to say the least bizarre. After openly discussing it between the four of us, we couldn’t and still can’t work out whether it was all true and above board or whether he was actually the head of the local drug cartel who had fronted an extreme and elaborate cover to his drug running business.


We had only one stop left on our itinerary, the Buddha footprint. Based on our experience at our first two ports of call, we were expecting a lot from our final destination. Unfortunately, we were greatly disappointed. The Buddha’s footprint was situated in a grand temple full of statues and images of the Buddha and in the centre was an extremely large gold piece in the shape of a footprint. We spoke to nobody at the temple because there was nobody there to speak to. After spending over two hours with Lenie at the Aids Hospice and over two hours with Monk Gordon at Wat Tham Krabok, we spent the grand total of two minutes at the Buddha’s footprint and swiftly returned to out tuk-tuk driver for our drive home to Lop Buri.

Text is appearing funny Brian, difficult to read.

[shrapnel]

Text is appearing funny Brian, difficult to read.

Same for me. Formatting is all wrong unfortunately

[limpwhacker]

A battered hotspur rises from the floor on the count of 8. This Buddha Rumble is back on, and if we're judging by word count alone, which I think we all are, it's a steamer of a suckerpunch out of nowhere.

The Buddha rumble is over hitch. Hotspur wins as whacker throws in the towel cos Hotspur has obviously reached the omniscient state of enlightenment way before whacker even heard of Buddhism. My interpretation of the teachings and retreats I attended and participated in work for me. They've put an end to my suffering and my practice brings joy happiness and contentment into my life on a daily basis. I'll take that any day of the week in comparison to what went before. I'm an infinitely better person now than I was before I discovered Buddhism. I'm a kind and compassionate individual who tries to commit as many random acts of kindness as I can each day. I don't always get it right but that doesn't stop me trying. It's a religion based on love and kindness for self and others. I can only speak for myself obviously but I definitely found what I was looking for when I found Buddhism. 14 years ago I was a complete basket case with absolutely no respect for myself or others. I'm a completely different man today and that's down to my Buddhist beliefs. No more no less.

[BennyHiFi]

I would be hiring the less assertive of those two guys Mocata, the other fella sounds like he will jump ship at the first head hunting opportunity.

Also sounds like he will be a pain in the hole to manage.

Agree 100% with Shrap and Lazare.

[Lao Lao]

Text is appearing funny Brian, difficult to read.

Same for me. Formatting is all wrong unfortunately

Think I fixed it there, had to take the spoilers off, it was the only thing that worked for some reason so it's a very long post now!

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[hotspur]

Monk Gordon:

[limpwhacker]

Much

How are ya buddies

Much better Solks play to your strengths...jokes. you're one of my fave posters here cos you make me laugh

[Denny Crane]

Thought asking how much you are going to be paid in an interview was a no-no. Times have obviously changed?

Usually HR bring it up asap.

[Denny Crane]

hotspur, is there any books that you would recommend as a beginning for the uninitiated?

[Lao Lao]

Monk Gordon:

Brilliant, that's him!!!

Were you aware of him/the Wat or did you just Google him?

From the comments on the video, it appears that he has passed away which is very, very sad news if it is true.

[mocata]

TBH I liked the fact that they both weren't 100% certain about the package and asked directly instead of avoiding it and letting it go unresolved to hope for the best later. That's definitely how I would like them to deal with any issues if they get the job, I am fairly direct and plain spoken myself. How he actually asked was very well handled too, he was pleasantly assertive rather than pushy or arrogant. Candidate B was no meek wallflower either, just obviously at start of professional life so no thought of pensions and hasn't had opportunity yet to do any real world projects.

The masters guy could indeed leave, but so could the other guy. If either of them make the case for more money in a year they could get it if they were worth it. The other guys in the IT dept I make the case for annual increases as is, if they haven't progressed enough in a year to be worth more money then either they or me have failed somewhere along the line. Its far easier (and cheaper overall) to give them an annual small bump than for them to get annoyed and start looking elsewhere then put the gun to your head
.
The way I see it, masters guys few quid more is just the cost of a training course and my time to get the other guy to the same point. So he would be productive sooner, and less teaching burden. Probably right with more management burden, but if the results come out of our dept then that is ultimately what is important. Would be better for business (and me ultimately) if we produced great stuff with me mildly annoyed, than with me having an easy life and less useful output. Also hoping that this guy opens other employees eyes to possibilities with Data and drags our internal skills up a bit along with him.

[RichieM]

Evaluating 2 job applicants at the moment. Both for graduate role, one with a first, the other with a 2:1 and finishing a masters.
Masters guy grilled our HR manager mercilessly on pension details (which delighted me no end as am 99% sure HR had never even been asked the question before) wanted 25% more starting salary as well. He has 50min commute vs 30 min for other guy. Also was upfront about saying he would like to work from home 1 or 2 days as a general rule (role would suit this arrangement)
The other guy asked how much he would he paid and seemed happy with first offer. Both likeable, both sharp. Their project examples were both excellent.
The masters guy has worked in a big tech company intern programme, initiative was mothballed and numbers didnt add up for him to move. Has actually worked on things similar to what his job role will entail. The other guy I am sure would be capable of doing same with training and time, both of which are planned and funded.
Anyone been in similar situations and have any thoughts?

All things being equal pick which one you would most like to have to spend an hour over lunch with.

If you want an answer based on the above than dont hire the guy who is haggling and pushing for every last cent. He will be gone in a year to another company that will offer him more - you will already be paying over what you want so won’t get a payrise approved.

also if he is only taking the job for money not for what you can teach him than he will likely be a shitter employee anyway.

[dinekes]

Sweating like Katie Price on mastermind here after a run in the mountains.
Feel great mind.

[Hectorjelly]

Wow at the consensus on hiring the wallflower (I exaggerate mocata I know) and viewing someone as uppity because they know what they want. The Masters guy has already been semi-proven as workplace proficient through his internships in decent places. The undergrad guy has just knowledge of basic textbooks at this stage. Maybe not even the right textbooks, who knows, as he's never worked anywhere before.

The other guy sounds fine, but yeah, 200% this guy will be better. He knows what he wants and has a plan laid out that he will work hard to achieve it.

[Solksjaer!]

Much
Much better Solks play to your strengths...jokes. you're one of my fave posters here cos you make me laugh

Ah here . Its goans I'm after not laughs . HJ will be incensed by that comment.

[RichieM]

The other guy sounds fine, but yeah, 200% this guy will be better. He knows what he wants and has a plan laid out that he will work hard to achieve it.

This is in no way advice on if you should of shouldn’t hire.

A 22 or 23 year old with a life plan and concerns about pension points.

Few life nits on this site - you know who you are but even those guys would have sighed when they heard this guy was invited to the same party as this guy.

either that or he is full of shite and/or has an incredibly over bearing mother who he still lives with.

[limpwhacker]

Ah here . Its goans I'm after not laughs . HJ will be incensed by that comment.

That's great news . I thought the whole point of this was to get HJ incensed as often as possible ???? Have I been doing it all wrong thus far ?

[Lazare]

The Buddha rumble is over hitch. Hotspur wins as whacker throws in the towel cos Hotspur has obviously reached the omniscient state of enlightenment way before whacker even heard of Buddhism. My interpretation of the teachings and retreats I attended and participated in work for me. They've put an end to my suffering and my practice brings joy happiness and contentment into my life on a daily basis. I'll take that any day of the week in comparison to what went before. I'm an infinitely better person now than I was before I discovered Buddhism. I'm a kind and compassionate individual who tries to commit as many random acts of kindness as I can each day. I don't always get it right but that doesn't stop me trying. It's a religion based on love and kindness for self and others. I can only speak for myself obviously but I definitely found what I was looking for when I found Buddhism. 14 years ago I was a complete basket case with absolutely no respect for myself or others. I'm a completely different man today and that's down to my Buddhist beliefs. No more no less.

This is great to read. You're a good skin and I'm delighted for you.

[limpwhacker]

hotspur, is there any books that you would recommend as a beginning for the uninitiated?

It appears that Hotspur is otherwise engaged in researching information to enable him to be victorious in a rumble he's already won so I'll throw my two cents worth in. Invariably the usual starting point for Tibetan Buddhism is a book called The Tibetan book of living and dying. I've met people who have told me that just reading the book has completely transformed their lives.
That's the good news. The bad news is it was written by a Lama called Sogyal Rinpoche. Thankfully Rinpoche died a couple of years ago and is now purifying Karma in his next life. Rinpoche was the only bad apple in the Buddhist basket. He was a horny old goat and physically, mentally and sexually abused beautiful young followers. I would not like to be trying to purify the bad karma that he accumulated that's for sure. I attended five of his week long summer retreats and it was no surprise to me that he was eventually exposed. He once gut punched a nun in the stomach in front of 1,000 people at a retreat in Lerab Ling in France. Buddha allegedly live roughly 2500 years ago. Imagine being the only bad apple in that length of time. The Catholic church probably had 10000 bad apples in the same amount of time. Some of what Sogyal Rinpoche got up to was horrific and beyond belief. It's all available on Google. Having said all that and if you can put that to one side, the book is an excellent starting point and has sold millions and millions of copies worldwide.

[limpwhacker]

This is great to read. You're a good skin and I'm delighted for you.

Cheers Laz I really appreciate you saying that.

[Raoul Duke III]

Limpwhacker, it's great that you have found serenity in Buddhism but surely saying that there was only one bad Buddhist in the last 2500 is incorrect?

The Sri Lankan army (strongly identified with Buddhism) did some seriously bad shit in their war with the Tamils.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[limpwhacker]

Limpwhacker, it's great that you have found serenity in Buddhism but surely saying that there was only one bad Buddhist in the last 2500 is incorrect?

The Sri Lankan army (strongly identified with Buddhism) did some seriously bad shit in their war with the Tamils.

I was referring only to Lamas who are our equivalent of priests. I'm sure there are millions upon millions of bad Buddhist most discover Buddhism and the Dharma because they are broken or damaged in some way by previous experiences.