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    Originally posted by eamonhonda View Post

    Great slice of pizza, but half the size and over twice the price of a new York slice. 50c extra for basil, honey etc. Can't support those prices when you think of the likes of sanos doing an Italian margarita for I think 8e.

    Don't think the pricing is that bad. Slices are between 4.5 and 6.5 which is the same, if not cheaper, than DiFontaines.

    They use 20" pizzas for their slices instead of the 12" in Sano.

    Sure, you can get a Margarita for 9 quid in Sano but I think they are two different animals. Sano don't do takeaway slices and while you can get full 20" pizzas from Bambino, it's more of a grab a slice place, at least for me anyway.

    A pizza sold by the slice is probably also going to be dearer if you added up all the slices in a pizza compared to full pizza price similar to how six glasses of wine in a restaurant would be more expensive than if you bought the bottle.

    I also think Bambino is a better pizza than Sano, but that's just personal taste.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Lao Lao View Post




      Don't think the pricing is that bad. Slices are between 4.5 and 6.5 which is the same, if not cheaper, than DiFontaines.

      They use 20" pizzas for their slices instead of the 12" in Sano.

      Sure, you can get a Margarita for 9 quid in Sano but I think they are two different animals. Sano don't do takeaway slices and while you can get full 20" pizzas from Bambino, it's more of a grab a slice place, at least for me anyway.

      A pizza sold by the slice is probably also going to be dearer if you added up all the slices in a pizza compared to full pizza price similar to how six glasses of wine in a restaurant would be more expensive than if you bought the bottle.

      I also think Bambino is a better pizza than Sano, but that's just personal taste.
      Ah ya I was definitely being a bit dramatic comparing it to sanos as it's two different things. The slices in difontaines are definitely bigger though, as are all the new York ones. 6.50 seems way steep for what you get, but I suppose if they can sell at that price (which they seem to be having no hassle doing it) why not.
      airport, lol

      Comment


        Doubt I will ever buy a pizza again as I can just make superior ones at home (and I'm probably pretty average and unadventurous at that).
        "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

        Comment


          Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post

          Yes, pretty much that.
          I think if you're looking to do a mates rates type of situation, you really need just that - either a good mate or family.

          It's the only real way of being able to agree a time frame for the lease, cheap rent, know the place will be looked after, no issues getting back into it and not having the hassle of being a full on landlord.

          It's the situation I'm in now as we rent from Mrs Lao Lao's sister at about 1/3 of the market rate. We really look after the place and keep it in shape and do any minor jobs/maintenance but if there is anything sunstantial needed (new paint job every 5+ years or a new washimg machine, etc, she picks up the tab and we just organise everything)

          Flip side is that when they come, maybe twice a year, they stay with us and while it can be a bit crowded for 2-4 weeks of the year, we do enjoy it as we get to hang out with herself's niece who is defo our favourite even though you're not meant to have favourites.

          Only other thing I can think of is if you can rent to diplomatic staff. I know somebody who was living abroad, moved home, bought and then decided it was a mistake and wanted to move back abroad. House is Southside based and they managed to rent it to the US Embassy (pretty sure it was done through an estate agent) Think you have to agree to either a 3 or a 5 year lease as that it the time frame for diplomatic staff being rotated. The deal they have is that the embassy have the right to re-decorate and if you don't like it when the lease is up, they have to put it back to how it was. The house has been rented out for over 10 years now at a very nice price, the couple have no plans to move home for at least another 10 years, if ever, and the estate agent has said the embassy will never let it go once the owners keep renewing the lease. Not sure if your locations is too far away from any embassies though?

          Comment




            Originally posted by eamonhonda View Post

            Ah ya I was definitely being a bit dramatic comparing it to sanos as it's two different things. The slices in difontaines are definitely bigger though, as are all the new York ones. 6.50 seems way steep for what you get, but I suppose if they can sell at that price (which they seem to be having no hassle doing it) why not.
            I have to qualify this with the fact that I can't remember the last time I had a slice from DiFontaines sober, but

            I thought the size of theirs and Bambino's was the same. I shall enjoy doing some robust and comprehensive research to get to the bottom of this

            Comment


              Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
              Doubt I will ever buy a pizza again as I can just make superior ones at home (and I'm probably pretty average and unadventurous at that).
              Let me know your availability so I can add you into my upcoming highly scientific, robust and comprehensive research of all things pizza.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Lao Lao View Post
                Let me know your availability so I can add you into my upcoming highly scientific, robust and comprehensive research of all things pizza.
                sure spin on in next Saturday you're at the Red Stables market and I'll sort you out. You can even compare me with Bob's Woodfired Pizza.
                "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                Comment


                  Has anyone played the EOM since it's been in the Emporium? Can't see the results anywhere so was wondering what sort of numbers they have been getting? Have a goo on me after watching loads of WSOP stuff!

                  Comment


                    What's wrong with this seemingly impressing reduction in Debt to GDP Ratio?
                    ireland-government-debt-to-gdp.png?s=irldebt2gdp&v=202204221925V20220312.png

                    I mean you would expect our chart to look something like Italy's right?
                    italy-government-debt-to-gdp.png?s=itadebt2gdp&v=202204261043V20220312.png
                    Clue - "Lucky Charms".
                    Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

                    Comment


                      GDP doesn't mean anything in an Irish context, which is why the Irish government, or the NTMA that issues our debt, doesn't use GDP as a comparator to debt. Only trash sites like tradingeconomics use it. But, that doesn't mean we aren't doing okay. We look 'grand' on the preferred measure that the Irish gov uses of GNI*.
                      "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                      Comment


                        Good to see Mellor and Kayroo arguing, almost like the way the internet is supposed to work. Cogent and interesting.

                        Comment


                          What do people think the practical implications are for the UK on this, in terms of impacting other international agreeements or likelihood of entering them?

                          Comment


                            For RDIII - re renting to a friend and mate's rates: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/205...homeless-help/

                            It would be a bit of a worry in the back of your mind, unless you were 100% sure whoever you rented to was totally genuine about leaving when you come back. We rented from a family member before, got very subsidised housing as a result but had to leave fairly quickly too, luckily for all concerned we accepted this part of the arrangement and were out when we were asked to. The problem with overholding in Ireland is why there are so few houses to rent right now, all small landlords rightfully getting out of the game, and others probably leaving houses empty rather than risk it. I'd only rent to family in your case, or life-long friends, no acquaintances, work colleagues, the bond isn't close enough!

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Goodluck2me View Post
                              What do people think the practical implications are for the UK on this, in terms of impacting other international agreeements or likelihood of entering them?

                              I'd imagine it doesn't do a lot more than slightly weaken their bargaining position.
                              Every negotiating team is going to bring it up as a reason to charge them a premium but I don't think it stops anyone dealing with them.
                              Turning millions into thousands

                              Comment


                                Raoul Duke III


                                Having rented our gaff a few times before, if it were me, i'd now 100% give it to an agency to manage for a fee (usually 5 to 10% of the rent), but at least it means you will get your rent on time every single month, regardless of whether the renter has paid on time or not, and they can sort out any issues that happen along the way, etc. Due to our last tenant, we basically had to sell the flat to ensure we didn't keep them on as tenants. it was absolute hell, so agency for me all the way.

                                Comment


                                  Will the agency pay you the rent, even if the tenant stops paying them? TBH that seems extremely unlikely, but I've never looked into it.

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by eoghan104 View Post
                                    Has anyone played the EOM since it's been in the Emporium? Can't see the results anywhere so was wondering what sort of numbers they have been getting? Have a goo on me after watching loads of WSOP stuff!
                                    Every now and again I see some poker clips online and I get the horn for a live game. I don't know that I have the patience for a tourney anymore though. Cash games perhaps.

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by ionapaul View Post
                                      Will the agency pay you the rent, even if the tenant stops paying them? TBH that seems extremely unlikely, but I've never looked into it.
                                      they do in France, will chase the client etc. no idea in Ireland but worth investigating. i'm sure you can get all levels of cover/service

                                      Comment


                                        Originally posted by eoghan104 View Post
                                        Has anyone played the EOM since it's been in the Emporium? Can't see the results anywhere so was wondering what sort of numbers they have been getting? Have a goo on me after watching loads of WSOP stuff!
                                        Yeah, I’ve played every one since it restarted at the end of Feb (lost heads-up to Bill Chen in the last one). Been getting 30 - 50 runners thus far, depending on what’s on elsewhere.

                                        Luke running it so spot on. They may have to tweak the structure if it gets back to 70+ runners, but so far so good - got heads-up at 2am last month.
                                        "Worldly wisdom teaches that it is better for reputation to fail conventionally than to succeed unconventionally." - John Maynard Keynes

                                        Comment


                                          I might pop down on Thursday too, got the buzz for poker again lately
                                          "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

                                          Comment


                                            Originally posted by AndyFatBastard View Post
                                            I might pop down on Thursday too, got the buzz for poker again lately
                                            Well there's a lot of the same faces playing the exact same game they were playing 15 years ago, so you won't feel out of place.

                                            I started playing online low stakes MTTs again myself at the outset of the pandemic and have gone on a journey trying to relearn the game, including coaching, etc - a lot of time and effort went in to be able to beat $11 - $55 tournaments. And I've seen a few lads in the SE who are current with their play style (and further down the rabbit hole than I). But most of the old heads are there playing the game that served them well for however long they've played, and fair play to them.
                                            "Worldly wisdom teaches that it is better for reputation to fail conventionally than to succeed unconventionally." - John Maynard Keynes

                                            Comment


                                              Originally posted by ionapaul View Post
                                              Will the agency pay you the rent, even if the tenant stops paying them? TBH that seems extremely unlikely, but I've never looked into it.
                                              I don't think so. We use an agency for an apartment we have rented, and occasionally it has happened that part of the rent (the non-HAP part) was a few days late and it got paid when it came in. Thankfully it's never been more than those few days late, so no problem. I would have remembered a clause like that in the T's & C's if it were there.

                                              Comment


                                                Originally posted by LuckyLloyd View Post

                                                Well there's a lot of the same faces playing the exact same game they were playing 15 years ago, so you won't feel out of place.

                                                I started playing online low stakes MTTs again myself at the outset of the pandemic and have gone on a journey trying to relearn the game, including coaching, etc - a lot of time and effort went in to be able to beat $11 - $55 tournaments. And I've seen a few lads in the SE who are current with their play style (and further down the rabbit hole than I). But most of the old heads are there playing the game that served them well for however long they've played, and fair play to them.
                                                For most it's a way of passing time doing something they enjoy. Obviously we have no idea how much people are losing (or occasionally) winning, but for most people it's within acceptable limits that lets them carry on. All things being equal I'd like to play something like that in theory now and then, but the chances of it actually happening are close to zero, and that's fine too. It's probably around 10 years now since I've played poker (apart from the extremely occasional few hands online, and I mean extremely occasional).

                                                Comment


                                                  Originally posted by 6starpool View Post

                                                  For most it's a way of passing time doing something they enjoy. Obviously we have no idea how much people are losing (or occasionally) winning, but for most people it's within acceptable limits that lets them carry on. All things being equal I'd like to play something like that in theory now and then, but the chances of it actually happening are close to zero, and that's fine too. It's probably around 10 years now since I've played poker (apart from the extremely occasional few hands online, and I mean extremely occasional).
                                                  Absolutely!

                                                  To be clear: my point is coming from the side of inclusiveness. If anyone here felt the game has changed or something and they'd be out of place going to play, it's not like that at all. And it's a fast structure tourney that you can just run hot in. So if you fancy a well run game and listening to Padraig making jokes at your table or the one next to you, come on down!

                                                  I decided to try and relearn the new framework within which the game is played as much as I could with the time permitted, but live poker is pretty much the same as it ever was based on the EOM.
                                                  "Worldly wisdom teaches that it is better for reputation to fail conventionally than to succeed unconventionally." - John Maynard Keynes

                                                  Comment


                                                    Originally posted by LuckyLloyd View Post

                                                    Absolutely!

                                                    To be clear: my point is coming from the side of inclusiveness. If anyone here felt the game has changed or something and they'd be out of place going to play, it's not like that at all. And it's a fast structure tourney that you can just run hot in. So if you fancy a well run game and listening to Padraig making jokes at your table or the one next to you, come on down!

                                                    I decided to try and relearn the new framework within which the game is played as much as I could with the time permitted, but live poker is pretty much the same as it ever was based on the EOM.
                                                    You're selling the idea to me. Literally just pulled the trigger on this 5 minutes ago.

                                                    SYD To DUB
                                                    QF Flight 1 - ECONOMY FLEX , Baggage Included

                                                    Depart:15:55 Wed, 27/07/22
                                                    Arrive: 10:15 Thu, 28/07/22
                                                    Duration 23h 40m

                                                    Comment


                                                      Originally posted by LuckyLloyd View Post

                                                      Well there's a lot of the same faces playing the exact same game they were playing 15 years ago, so you won't feel out of place.

                                                      I started playing online low stakes MTTs again myself at the outset of the pandemic and have gone on a journey trying to relearn the game, including coaching, etc - a lot of time and effort went in to be able to beat $11 - $55 tournaments. And I've seen a few lads in the SE who are current with their play style (and further down the rabbit hole than I). But most of the old heads are there playing the game that served them well for however long they've played, and fair play to them.
                                                      I'm sure I will be a dinosaur but I'm making enough money in my real job that I'm not worried about getting outplayed in a €300 tourney. Honestly this is by far the best way to play poker. Tryharding is just awful unless you're actually planning to go pro. I'm definitely not.
                                                      "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

                                                      Comment


                                                        Jesus I have a bit of a goo now myself. It's contagious

                                                        What's the buy in the the EOM?
                                                        I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

                                                        Comment


                                                          What would one read if one wanted to not be the table gimp in these end-of-the-month games?
                                                          "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                                          Comment


                                                            Originally posted by Lazare View Post
                                                            Jesus I have a bit of a goo now myself. It's contagious

                                                            What's the buy in the the EOM?
                                                            €270 + €30
                                                            "Worldly wisdom teaches that it is better for reputation to fail conventionally than to succeed unconventionally." - John Maynard Keynes

                                                            Comment




                                                              Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                                                              What would one read if one wanted to not be the table gimp in these end-of-the-month games?
                                                              This should cover you

                                                              https://www.telegraph.co.uk/betting/...t-cheat-sheet/

                                                              Comment


                                                                Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                                                                What would one read if one wanted to not be the table gimp in these end-of-the-month games?
                                                                Harrington on Hold'em 1 + 2

                                                                Comment


                                                                  Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                                                                  What would one read if one wanted to not be the table gimp in these end-of-the-month games?
                                                                  Play all rags from early position
                                                                  Bet to find out where you are
                                                                  Always try bluff the calling station
                                                                  Always fold to the lable LAG

                                                                  That should get you to the final table, then just run hot and win. EZ game.

                                                                  Game in Ireland hasnt changed bar average age went up 15 years or so unless there happens to be a €1k+ buyin game tbh

                                                                  That said i think I've played 4 tournaments since Covid hit

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    Originally posted by AndyFatBastard View Post

                                                                    I'm sure I will be a dinosaur but I'm making enough money in my real job that I'm not worried about getting outplayed in a €300 tourney. Honestly this is by far the best way to play poker. Tryharding is just awful unless you're actually planning to go pro. I'm definitely not.


                                                                    I remember when I started playing in 2005 as a 21-year-old finishing up in college the idea of spending 300 on a single tournament seemed completely mad. I used to try and satellite into such things. So it’s great to be life rolled to play such things without a second thought. It’s a privilege in fact.

                                                                    That said, this isn’t about “try harding” for me as much as it is finding the game interesting and wanting to have some understanding of how the best players play it. And if you want to play a bunch of online tournaments (even very inexpensive ones), learning how to play properly is essential unless you just want to donate your bankroll.

                                                                    Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                                                                    What would one read if one wanted to not be the table gimp in these end-of-the-month games?


                                                                    Modern Poker Theory, by Michael Acevedo is a brilliant book and probably the closest you will get to a one-stop shop in terms of understanding what is going on. There are specific books written by Doke on satellites, bounty tournaments, and ICM that I found very useful also. But you’ll only get something out of Doke’s books IMO if you have a basic understanding of the current framework, and Acevado is not a light or quick read.

                                                                    I’d say go and play, and play the best way that makes sense to you. It’s only by playing that these things will make any sense anyway.

                                                                    The reason it is complex is because solving programmes have been a thing now for some time. And that means that there is an “optimal” range to play from every seat for every scenario for every blind level. And if you and your opponent know that, there then becomes an optimal continuation strategy for different flops, turns, and rivers and optimal counter-strategies to same. The modern game is built around such things – what are the starting ranges; which ranges have an advantage on which boards; what bet sizes and frequencies make sense in that context. And then – once we know that we need to bluff and so do our opponents – how do we understand when to fire the extra barrel or call down light.

                                                                    If your opponents aren’t playing in an “optimal” way, then you need to deviate into “exploitative” strategies. And in the SE EOM a lot of the opponents won’t be playing “optimal” ranges. This leaves you to try and ascribe them a range, and decipher what their sizes and frequencies may mean. As such, one could argue that even attempting to learn something about “optimal” play won’t help you for your first trip to the casino in years.

                                                                    Of course, I don’t think that’s completely true. The solvers figured out certain truths around ranges and defense frequencies that apply irrespective of your opponent’s style. There are very few hand combinations we should fold to a min-raise in the BB, for example. Suited connectors and one gappers are more valuable than non-suited for example, to the extent that you would rarely open the latter. Ditto suited Aces. A5ss will be opened and played against a raise from most seats at most stack depths whereas A6ss is often a fold. The optimal shape of your range when shoving a short stack is different to what we intuitively concluded it was in the mid-2000’s. Similarly, there are truths around ICM if playing with pay jumps in play, and how it should drastically change your decision-making.

                                                                    To answer your question directly, I don’t think a single tournament in the SE will penalize you for not knowing this stuff or reward you for knowing it. The most important thing you need to be armed with for the EOM is the ability to win your All–Ins. That is the essential requirement. But to address things more generally, there are things you could start looking into if you were interested in understanding what changed. I only have a really basic grasp of all the points, to be honest, and it took a lot of work to get even that far.

                                                                    To circle back to the “try harding” thing, I could never personally play a poker game regularly if I knew I was the value. I started playing again in March 2020 and once I realized I was the value I reached out for help. At the same time, I think Dom is spot on to say that some people are looking for entertainment and there is of course nothing wrong with that. Delusions of profitability are the thing we are looking to avoid IMO.
                                                                    "Worldly wisdom teaches that it is better for reputation to fail conventionally than to succeed unconventionally." - John Maynard Keynes

                                                                    Comment


                                                                      Thats some powerful feedback. No excuses now. Stay away from me at the table everyone.
                                                                      "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                                                      Comment


                                                                        Originally posted by LuckyLloyd View Post
                                                                        The optimal shape of your range when shoving a short stack is different to what we intuitively concluded it was in the mid-2000’s. Similarly, there are truths around ICM if playing with pay jumps in play, and how it should drastically change your decision-making.
                                                                        Curious how you think the stock stage range has changed? I’ve played very little in the last few years.

                                                                        I assume ICM hasn’t changed, only people understand it better. I remember in the early days, people often would refuse to accept the concept.

                                                                        For the sake of maintaining a discussion, is there any interest in a poker thread?

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          Fun race in the next at Brighton, down to 2 nags with a withdrawal and its a 1/50 shot v a 50/1 shot

                                                                          The "racing is bent crowd" will be out in force if the outsider wins

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            Originally posted by Mellor View Post
                                                                            Curious how you think the stock stage range has changed? I’ve played very little in the last few years.

                                                                            I assume ICM hasn’t changed, only people understand it better. I remember in the early days, people often would refuse to accept the concept.

                                                                            For the sake of maintaining a discussion, is there any interest in a poker thread?
                                                                            Well I’d be happy to chip in the little I know anyway.

                                                                            We used to think ‘I’d rather shove connectors than a rag Ace’ and we worried lots and lots about being dominated when getting it in with little or no fold equity. We weren’t far off, but the solvers are more focussed on removal than domination, and this changes things.

                                                                            It changes even more in bounty tournaments or scenarios where you *know* you will be called, where higher cards become the priority over everything else.
                                                                            "Worldly wisdom teaches that it is better for reputation to fail conventionally than to succeed unconventionally." - John Maynard Keynes

                                                                            Comment


                                                                              I would hate to play against myself of 12-15 years ago. Sometimes I think I ‘willed’ a bad beat on myself so I could have a rant and then be content when I got home that it balanced out all the other good luck I was getting in my life. Whenever I did well in a tourney I got some kind of emptiness from it afterwards. Like a sofkingwhat ALL THAT just for some money then a strange guilt. Especially Cash games, I normally ‘nitted’ well in these but there was guilt. Deep down I didn’t want some dronks (drunk donk) money at all , I just wanted to win some hands of poker.
                                                                              Nowadays after experiencing some births and deaths over the years, I’m not sure POKER will ever instil too big an emotion out of me again. I had a game of DON recently with a few folk. Now there were people emotionally involved. Loved it actually. No monies at stake just a score card. I think I’m more ODD now than I ever was , I blame those introspective moments . Or maybe Kids . Who cares, I’ll probably get a game in soon enough for the social end of it , met some gas characters (and some arseholes) and some decent chaps that were a pleasure to converse with.

                                                                              Comment


                                                                                I didnt realise the SE were doing a Monthly, what time is KO?

                                                                                One of the few games i played was a Bonnington Monthly - think it got 65 runners. I wish someone would just replicate the Fitz version (i.e payouts - HJ might correct me if I'm wrong but i think it used to pay 30% up top which made it very worth winning, the payouts in the Bonnington ones were far to flat imo)

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                  Originally posted by Dice75 View Post
                                                                                  I didnt realise the SE were doing a Monthly, what time is KO?

                                                                                  One of the few games i played was a Bonnington Monthly - think it got 65 runners. I wish someone would just replicate the Fitz version (i.e payouts - HJ might correct me if I'm wrong but i think it used to pay 30% up top which made it very worth winning, the payouts in the Bonnington ones were far to flat imo)
                                                                                  Kickoff at 7, late reg till after the break at 9

                                                                                  Late reg during the break at 9 will start you on 30BBs, so highly viable option
                                                                                  "Worldly wisdom teaches that it is better for reputation to fail conventionally than to succeed unconventionally." - John Maynard Keynes

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                    Applications of No-Limit Hold'em is a good book to for how to think about poker. I see it's nearly ten years old though, so probably closer to HoH than Lloyd's book.

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                      I've played in the Emporium three times recently, one tourney and two cash sessions. Got it in ahead eleven times still waiting for a hold
                                                                                      Turning millions into thousands

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                        Originally posted by Denny Crane View Post
                                                                                        Applications of No-Limit Hold'em is a good book to for how to think about poker. I see it's nearly ten years old though, so probably closer to HoH than Lloyd's book.
                                                                                        That book might still be pretty useful - thinking about ranges and balance is hugely important in the GTO world. Every bet and every check can strengthen or weaken your range so getting into that way of thinking is foundational.

                                                                                        Probably important to state however that the fully serious MTT advice would be something along the lines of:

                                                                                        - Go and play ~100 tournaments whatever way you intuitively feel is best so you get reacclimatised to where the decision points are and how you think when you have a decision to make
                                                                                        - Now go and relearn the game from preflop to river; early game to late game
                                                                                        - Now play as much as you can
                                                                                        - As part of learning concepts and strategy, develop a framework around reviewing your play
                                                                                        - Make sure to spend some time continuing to learn, beyond simple review

                                                                                        When it comes to learning, it’s all done via coaching and courses these days. Here’s one example: https://www.raiseyouredge.com/tourna...terclass-poker

                                                                                        And then in regards to ongoing review the options range from analyzers that you can run your hands through (I use Poker Snowie, which has lots of limitations but provides useable feedback nonetheless) or full on learning to use solvers yourself.

                                                                                        Finally, when it comes to active ongoing learning you can get apps like Pairrd or DTO that give you quizzes and feedback on your answers.

                                                                                        How far down the rabbit hole would you go? That’s up to everyone to decide individually. The simple act of playing in an engaged fashion makes you better.

                                                                                        Online is brutal these days though. Loads of people who have put in work to learn a reasonably solid approach. Can’t see how one could make money consistently without grinding their arse off at it all.

                                                                                        Successful online player Fintan Hand’s take on it all:

                                                                                        https://twitter.com/easywithaces/sta...cCvYjbKiH_mTLQ

                                                                                        He references Applications of No Limit Hold Em as the one book to read
                                                                                        Last edited by LuckyLloyd; 28-06-22, 15:36.
                                                                                        "Worldly wisdom teaches that it is better for reputation to fail conventionally than to succeed unconventionally." - John Maynard Keynes

                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                          Originally posted by LuckyLloyd View Post

                                                                                          I remember when I started playing in 2005 as a 21-year-old finishing up in college the idea of spending 300 on a single tournament seemed completely mad. I used to try and satellite into such things. So it’s great to be life rolled to play such things without a second thought. It’s a privilege in fact.

                                                                                          That said, this isn’t about “try harding” for me as much as it is finding the game interesting and wanting to have some understanding of how the best players play it. And if you want to play a bunch of online tournaments (even very inexpensive ones), learning how to play properly is essential unless you just want to donate your bankroll.



                                                                                          Modern Poker Theory, by Michael Acevedo is a brilliant book and probably the closest you will get to a one-stop shop in terms of understanding what is going on. There are specific books written by Doke on satellites, bounty tournaments, and ICM that I found very useful also. But you’ll only get something out of Doke’s books IMO if you have a basic understanding of the current framework, and Acevado is not a light or quick read.

                                                                                          I’d say go and play, and play the best way that makes sense to you. It’s only by playing that these things will make any sense anyway.

                                                                                          The reason it is complex is because solving programmes have been a thing now for some time. And that means that there is an “optimal” range to play from every seat for every scenario for every blind level. And if you and your opponent know that, there then becomes an optimal continuation strategy for different flops, turns, and rivers and optimal counter-strategies to same. The modern game is built around such things – what are the starting ranges; which ranges have an advantage on which boards; what bet sizes and frequencies make sense in that context. And then – once we know that we need to bluff and so do our opponents – how do we understand when to fire the extra barrel or call down light.

                                                                                          If your opponents aren’t playing in an “optimal” way, then you need to deviate into “exploitative” strategies. And in the SE EOM a lot of the opponents won’t be playing “optimal” ranges. This leaves you to try and ascribe them a range, and decipher what their sizes and frequencies may mean. As such, one could argue that even attempting to learn something about “optimal” play won’t help you for your first trip to the casino in years.

                                                                                          Of course, I don’t think that’s completely true. The solvers figured out certain truths around ranges and defense frequencies that apply irrespective of your opponent’s style. There are very few hand combinations we should fold to a min-raise in the BB, for example. Suited connectors and one gappers are more valuable than non-suited for example, to the extent that you would rarely open the latter. Ditto suited Aces. A5ss will be opened and played against a raise from most seats at most stack depths whereas A6ss is often a fold. The optimal shape of your range when shoving a short stack is different to what we intuitively concluded it was in the mid-2000’s. Similarly, there are truths around ICM if playing with pay jumps in play, and how it should drastically change your decision-making.

                                                                                          To answer your question directly, I don’t think a single tournament in the SE will penalize you for not knowing this stuff or reward you for knowing it. The most important thing you need to be armed with for the EOM is the ability to win your All–Ins. That is the essential requirement. But to address things more generally, there are things you could start looking into if you were interested in understanding what changed. I only have a really basic grasp of all the points, to be honest, and it took a lot of work to get even that far.

                                                                                          To circle back to the “try harding” thing, I could never personally play a poker game regularly if I knew I was the value. I started playing again in March 2020 and once I realized I was the value I reached out for help. At the same time, I think Dom is spot on to say that some people are looking for entertainment and there is of course nothing wrong with that. Delusions of profitability are the thing we are looking to avoid IMO.
                                                                                          That's some summary LL.
                                                                                          I have never stopped playing (the addiction is strong))).
                                                                                          I've played the EOM and a few other tourneys in the SE-superbly run game in a beautiful setting.
                                                                                          Given the piqued interest on here can I suggest a planned IPB raid on the 28th July EOM. Few pints nearby followed by the game and the cash games??

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                                                                                            Let's all play the EOM and collude. The secret codeword is Sasquatch.
                                                                                            "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

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                                                                                              Originally posted by The Istanbul View Post

                                                                                              That's some summary LL.
                                                                                              I have never stopped playing (the addiction is strong))).
                                                                                              I've played the EOM and a few other tourneys in the SE-superbly run game in a beautiful setting.
                                                                                              Given the piqued interest on here can I suggest a planned IPB raid on the 28th July EOM. Few pints nearby followed by the game and the cash games??
                                                                                              Well I’ll be there!
                                                                                              "Worldly wisdom teaches that it is better for reputation to fail conventionally than to succeed unconventionally." - John Maynard Keynes

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                                                                                                Originally posted by The Istanbul View Post

                                                                                                That's some summary LL.
                                                                                                I have never stopped playing (the addiction is strong))).
                                                                                                I've played the EOM and a few other tourneys in the SE-superbly run game in a beautiful setting.
                                                                                                Given the piqued interest on here can I suggest a planned IPB raid on the 28th July EOM. Few pints nearby followed by the game and the cash games??
                                                                                                Won't be around, hopefully August
                                                                                                Turning millions into thousands

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                                                                                                  Can't believe nobody has asked LL what the dinner is like
                                                                                                  "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

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                                                                                                    Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
                                                                                                    Can't believe nobody has asked LL what the dinner is like
                                                                                                    Sandwiches and finger food I'm afraid
                                                                                                    "Worldly wisdom teaches that it is better for reputation to fail conventionally than to succeed unconventionally." - John Maynard Keynes

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                                                                                                      Wimbledon fact. Did you know Tennessee Williams is Serena Williams Grandfather .

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                                                                                                        Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
                                                                                                        Can't believe nobody has asked LL what the dinner is like
                                                                                                        What if he says YOU.YOU are the dinner .

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                                                                                                          Great craic in Malahide
                                                                                                          Needed 6 off the last ball, didn't make it.

                                                                                                          Turning millions into thousands

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                                                                                                            Originally posted by Solksjaer! View Post
                                                                                                            Wimbledon fact. Did you know Tennessee Williams is Serena Williams Grandfather .
                                                                                                            I think you are mixing him up with her grandfather Tennis_see Williams.
                                                                                                            Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

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                                                                                                              Some great advice from Lloyd and the book he recommends is the only one people really consider worth reading these days. One thing he didn't mention is using Trainers. They are basically GTO bots that you can play hands against to get in a lot of repetition in spots.

                                                                                                              The main thing in thinking about poker hands these days is that everything is related to your range. That notion seems quite abstract and I doubt many people understand what that means in practice. I think most people get it better by hearing an example. These aren't solver-approved sizings but more to illustrate the point.

                                                                                                              Let's say you raise the BTN and the BB calls and the flop is K, 3, 2. The last thing you actually think about is your hand and normally the first thing you are thinking about is your overall range and what the villain's overall range looks like relative to this board. Normally to simplify you can think of the ranges in four parts, the very top part (nuts or close to it), the good hands, the weak hands, and the trash. So in the top part, we obviously hold a significant advantage in that we have QQ, KK, AA, AK which the villain should never have and then we have an equal amount of sets but it is clear we have an overall equity advantage. I think we probably mix betting/checking quite equally on this board but let's say we decide when we bet that it is a range bet for 1/3.

                                                                                                              So we bet 30% and the turn is a 9. The equity advantage now actually switches to villain when you look at the overall range for both players in the solver. The reason for this is because we bet the flop villain will now have folded all of his trash while we bet much of ours and consequently still have it in our range. This now means that we are at an equity disadvantage considering the four parts of the range above but at the top of the range, we still hold a significant advantage so to leverage this, if we bet we now want to go polar with our entire range so consequently this is how one might arrive at overbetting the turn as a bet choice.

                                                                                                              The solver is always doing this in one way or another, considering both ranges against each other in conjunction with the board and trying to use bet sizes to achieve the optimal play considering those ranges. You then have to decide what kind of hands make the best continues on the turn and bucket them accordingly to balance your range.

                                                                                                              Garrett Adelstein is considered by many to be the top cash game player in the world these days and he only start doing solver work a few years back. He said he put a significant amount of time into learning GTO but in reality, most of his edge live is still derived live by playing far, far from GTO and he would be giving up massive EV by playing anything close to it but knowing what the baseline is in situations certainly helps him exploit to the max.

                                                                                                              The most popular thing I hear people saying about poker these days.

                                                                                                              "Poker is hard man"
                                                                                                              Last edited by Opr; 28-06-22, 19:19.

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                                                                                                                Originally posted by Wombatman View Post

                                                                                                                I think you are mixing him up with her grandfather Tennis_see Williams.
                                                                                                                Dats der joke innit

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                                                                                                                  Playing all right Serena . Commentary a bit intrusive. Serena a bit of interaction with her box there. ffs She was only taking a ball out of her knickers

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                                                                                                                    Originally posted by AndyFatBastard View Post

                                                                                                                    I'm sure I will be a dinosaur but I'm making enough money in my real job that I'm not worried about getting outplayed in a €300 tourney. Honestly this is by far the best way to play poker. Tryharding is just awful unless you're actually planning to go pro. I'm definitely not.
                                                                                                                    This is kind of my thinking too. A few years ago a 300 buyin was out of the question but obviously as we progress the amount matters less. As it will be a rare outing for a tournie I don't want to really waste my time with a 50 game.

                                                                                                                    Thanks for the info Lloyd I'll see you there Thursday

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                                                                                                                      One thing that made me wince pretty hard when messing with the solver thinking about all the money that I incinerated is how little it likes to three-barrel missed flushes on the river. Like DUH, obviously due to card removal we would prefer not to block villains' folding range when you fire off that third shell. It seems so bloody obvious but I swear I never once heard someone talking about that back in the day. Bombs away.

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                                                                                                                        For all this optimal game play, does it fall apart when you're up against a really bad player who doesn't understand ranges (or indeed bet sizing, positional play etc)?

                                                                                                                        Asking for a friend.
                                                                                                                        "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

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                                                                                                                          So yesterday I started my annual do some shit around the house that I will start to regret in two weeks job.
                                                                                                                          This year is the "conservatory " which is hotter than hell in the summer and colder than Uranus in the winter.
                                                                                                                          From my fact gathering from the neighbours it was an add on by the owners a couple of years after the house was built so that explained the shoddy workmanship compared to the rest of the house.
                                                                                                                          Took the roof off yesterday and all the windows out started to take up the wooden floor this morning and instead of a concrete slab under it was floor joists.
                                                                                                                          After a bit of debating I realised I couldn't just put it back together, give it lick of paint and tell the wife that was the plan all along I made a new plan and continued taking up the floor.
                                                                                                                          I then happened across a safe buried in the joists and bolted down to the concrete subfloor. I know the previous owner was minted so it only realistically took me about thirty seconds to retire.
                                                                                                                          I took a sledge to it and got it out of the concrete and into the garden and straight into it with a consaw.
                                                                                                                          At this stage my biggest fear was whether the cash was going to be punts or euros and did the Central Bank still exchange punts.
                                                                                                                          Alas it is back to work tomorrow as the entire contents was eight empty envelopes and an empty bag for transporting diamonds.
                                                                                                                          I'll try and post some pics but they never seem to work out for me on the new site.

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