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    Originally posted by LuckyLloyd View Post
    Nonetheless, if the difference between FG and FF is merely the personalities who have happened to lead either party, SF's characterization of them as the same seems to have merit. This is increasingly the conclusion of the general public too.
    The left wing of the Labour party used (1980's) to oppose going into coalition with FG largely in the hope of forcing FF and FG into a coalition. They would have creamed themselves at the position SF have manoeuvred themselves in to.
    I'm no SF fan, but I'd mostly think of Labour as a book club of sorts who only have a past.
    “Blessed are the forgetful, for they get the better even of their blunders.”

    Comment


      this is beautiful.

      SPOILER
      'He seemed a bit flustered' seems as apt a summary as someone slurring from a dumpster at someone having a glass of wine with their dinner that 'they seem a bit drunk'. Never change Kay.


      "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

      Comment


        If SF get into power it most likely be more of the same due to existing regulation, legislation and fiscal, institutional, budgetary constraints. We were told Brexit and Trump would be cataclysmic but what did we get..... more of the same for the most part for most people. Certainly no progress, with some years of bitter division.

        The main fear I have about SF is their obsession with a United Ireland. It is their raison d'etre. They have built the party wonderfully and played the long game for decades to get to this point in the South. I worry that if they get into government in the South they will launch a massive push for unification and everything else, including housing and health etc, will take a back seat. I will be our rose tinted glasses 'Brexit' \ 'Let's make Ireland great again' moment where nostalgia gets the better of pragmatism.
        Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

        Comment


          Originally posted by Kayroo View Post

          Utter nonsense. I do not agree with SF on many issues, but to label all of their activists as racist is plainly nonsense.
          I'd say it probably is a wrong view, but:

          They do consistently vote against accommodation primarily aimed at foreign workers (co-living, rental apartments) in favour of 'traditional accommodation'.

          It seems to be a party that sees 'pure Irish' people differently than non-Irish who live here based on their actions.

          They also, in their 2020 manifesto, called for controlling immigration: specific (full) wording below, with bolded bits mine.

          Immigration

          Sinn Féin is determined to avoid the failed policies that have fostered resentments and tensions in other countries. Successive Governments have failed to deliver what is needed in terms of housing and health delivery. They and they alone are responsible for their failures.

          Sinn Féin does not want open borders. We believe that all states must manage migration. Every state has to have an immigration system with well-functioning rules and regulation that everyone understands and that serves the interest of the people of the country. This system must have regard to how many people are needed to meet shortfalls in the labour market and how many people can be integrated effectively with adequate support and resourcing. Where we do need migrants, such as to fill vacancies in our health system, our migration system should facilitate this.

          The system must also protect people fleeing persecution and war, our international obligations must be fulfilled. We should end the Direct Provision system, treat people with dignity, process applications for asylum in a timely manner and implement the recommendations of the All-Party Oireachtas Committee Report. Sinn Féin priorities: » Ensuring an efficient, fair and transparent immigration system is in place
          Now, that's clearly not 'racist', but having lived in England through the rise of that new Tory era in England, it does seem awfully ready to go in that direction in subsequent iterations, if there is popular demand.

          I personally find it uncomfortable. They know a lot of their voters would have an Irish-first policy and they are willing to echo that. It's not great really imo.
          "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

          Comment


            Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
            this is beautiful.

            SPOILER
            'He seemed a bit flustered' seems as apt a summary as someone slurring from a dumpster at someone having a glass of wine with their dinner that 'they seem a bit drunk'. Never change Kay.




            More Mike. Need to rewatch this short clip to get its full glory.


            "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

            Comment


              Originally posted by DeadParrot View Post

              I'm no fan of SF but this is ridiculous.
              Lloyd may be many things, he may kill you, eat you, wear your arse like a hat as he power rows in an stationary position but nothing I know of him indicates whether he would prefer what colour you are.

              All jokes aside, I think that is a lazy insinuation brought on by your own hatred of the shinners man.

              Originally posted by Kayroo View Post

              Utter nonsense. I do not agree with SF on many issues, but to label all of their activists as racist is plainly nonsense.
              Absolutely not, I'm putting that up as a fact of my experience of SF activists I've known over the last 6 decades, and TBH I'm surprised anyone would find this at all controversial.

              You do both realise that it is entirely possible to be racist in your attitude to and treatment of British people

              Turning millions into thousands

              Comment


                Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

                I'd say it probably is a wrong view, but:

                They do consistently vote against accommodation primarily aimed at foreign workers (co-living, rental apartments) in favour of 'traditional accommodation'.

                It seems to be a party that sees 'pure Irish' people differently than non-Irish who live here based on their actions.

                They also, in their 2020 manifesto, called for controlling immigration: specific (full) wording below, with bolded bits mine.



                Now, that's clearly not 'racist', but having lived in England through the rise of that new Tory era in England, it does seem awfully ready to go in that direction in subsequent iterations, if there is popular demand.

                I personally find it uncomfortable. They know a lot of their voters would have an Irish-first policy and they are willing to echo that. It's not great really imo.
                Good job LL has told us their manifesto was a jolly fairytale romp entirely disconnected from reality.

                Originally posted by LuckyLloyd View Post
                SF were able to write whatever they wanted in 2020 because there was no prospect at time of writing of them going into government.
                We genuinely don't know what SF would do in power - and neither do they. At the moment, they're just surfing a wave of telling as many people as possible what they want to hear.
                "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

                  Its almost like we are:

                  1. One of the most equal societies in the world
                  2. One of the most successful economies in the world
                  3. One of the highest quality of life societies in the world

                  and that awful electorate wants that to continue...
                  Ah no ,let's tear it all down. Prosperity is overrated. We had more craic in the 1980s (possibly true).
                  "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

                    I think the divide will be between Dublin and everywhere else. Like in the UK. There's endless land for affordable building outside Dublin. But realistically those three-bed-semis that everyone wants and SF idealises can't be built in Dublin

                    ​​​​
                    I think I understand. You are proposing an obvious solution to an appalling problem.

                    webuildthewall.jpg
                    "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post

                      You do both realise that it is entirely possible to be racist in your attitude to and treatment of British people
                      Is "British" a race now?

                      Anglophobic I would possibly concede (and even then I'd be unsure). But racist? Nope.

                      That's not to say there aren't racists in SF. I suspect there are racists (conscious or otherwise) in most political movements. Nor is it to deny their immigration policies aren't a tiny bit of a dog-whistle. But it appeared your implication was that all SF activists are racist. Which is a ludicrous proposition. Albeit you seem to recognise that by walking back from it/refining your initial point.
                      You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
                      World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Kayroo View Post

                        Is "British" a race now?

                        Anglophobic I would possibly concede (and even then I'd be unsure). But racist? Nope.

                        That's not to say there aren't racists in SF. I suspect there are racists (conscious or otherwise) in most political movements. Nor is it to deny their immigration policies aren't a tiny bit of a dog-whistle. But it appeared your implication was that all SF activists are racist. Which is a ludicrous proposition. Albeit you seem to recognise that by walking back from it/refining your initial point.
                        Ah I framed it carefully, I excluded LL and also I really wasn't talking about their stance on immigration which they craft carefully to appear colour blind while actually being no more than a version of the policies of various far right groups across Europe.

                        A couple of weeks ago it was shinnerbots all over the place decrying as racism that the Irish Guards were (self) referred to as 'the Micks'.
                        Aside from that kind of thing I think I would have defend strongly categorising many quite commonly held attitudes to Unionists and English as being racist.
                        Turning millions into thousands

                        Comment


                          Nobody Rustles better
                          Makes me feel sad for the rest
                          Nobody rustles jimmies quite as good as you
                          Lloydy you’re the best

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post

                            Ah I framed it carefully, I excluded LL and also I really wasn't talking about their stance on immigration which they craft carefully to appear colour blind while actually being no more than a version of the policies of various far right groups across Europe.

                            A couple of weeks ago it was shinnerbots all over the place decrying as racism that the Irish Guards were (self) referred to as 'the Micks'.
                            Aside from that kind of thing I think I would have defend strongly categorising many quite commonly held attitudes to Unionists and English as being racist.
                            Unionists deserve it tbf
                            and a good chunk of English too

                            Comment


                              And I'd add if they in any way serious about being a modern inclusive multicultural that was fit to represent the people of Ireland North or South in Government the first thing on their agenda would be a name change.
                              Turning millions into thousands

                              Comment


                                Just read back now, as I missed this morning's chat. Including HJ alluding to the same immigration point.

                                But on one specific point: the whole let's just build loads of homes!, as everyone pointed out is clearly ridiculous...

                                I was looking up the Doing Business report of the World Bank a while ago, and they have a ranking of countries by planning difficulties. If you look at the most difficult countries to build in - its essentially all of Europe. It's a rich country thing. Where people actually have value they want to protect. I'm not saying it can't be changed, but any changes to the planning permission system will be iterations not revolutions. These are not uniquely Irish problems, these are rich country problems. So, the idea that any party can rapidly build homes is a complete nonsense.

                                Darragh, and Eoghan before them, have actually been brilliant housing ministers. Making massive generational changes to planning and housing policy. It seems poor form to say 'let's build loads of houses' if even slightly at the same level of skill as what they have actually done. Acknowledging, of course, that there's a million things more to do.

                                The best thing we could do, really, is persuade 100,000 Polish/Romanian/Hungarian builders to move here. Offer them all a free plot of land somewhere that they can build their own home on, as long as they agree to work for the construction trade. Its workforce we need. We have the planning permissions already. We have the developers. But SF (probably) doesn't like immigration, so wouldn't be in favour of that.

                                The second best thing is to do something smart on costs. But that seems to be a global problem, so not sure what we can do there. The gov scheme to subsidise the building of a few thousand apartments recently was actually a really smart idea. A smallish amount of cost to get a largish amount of apartments built, that are currently stalled on the fact that the cost of building exceeds the price that can be reasonably achieved from selling.
                                "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                Comment


                                  Little Bighorn 1870s

                                  Custer : We come in peace.
                                  Sitting Bull :White man speak with fork tongue
                                  Private SP : racist murderous bastards .

                                  Comment


                                    Alanis gig was great. PoorBeth Orton. I thought the sound was shite, the attempt at ethereal music drowned out her voice badly.

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by Solksjaer! View Post
                                      Alanis gig was great. PoorBeth Orton. I thought the sound was shite, the attempt at ethereal music drowned out her voice badly.
                                      Yeah, voice was drowned out by the music and none of it was loud enough. The point is an easy venue to get to and access, it just sounds shite inside it.

                                      I was brought by the Mrs who is a massive fan. She enjoyed herself and said it was a great gig which is all that matters in this house.

                                      Comment


                                        Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                                        Just read back now, as I missed this morning's chat. Including HJ alluding to the same immigration point.

                                        But on one specific point: the whole let's just build loads of homes!, as everyone pointed out is clearly ridiculous...

                                        I was looking up the Doing Business report of the World Bank a while ago, and they have a ranking of countries by planning difficulties. If you look at the most difficult countries to build in - its essentially all of Europe. It's a rich country thing. Where people actually have value they want to protect. I'm not saying it can't be changed, but any changes to the planning permission system will be iterations not revolutions. These are not uniquely Irish problems, these are rich country problems. So, the idea that any party can rapidly build homes is a complete nonsense.

                                        Darragh, and Eoghan before them, have actually been brilliant housing ministers. Making massive generational changes to planning and housing policy. It seems poor form to say 'let's build loads of houses' if even slightly at the same level of skill as what they have actually done. Acknowledging, of course, that there's a million things more to do.

                                        The best thing we could do, really, is persuade 100,000 Polish/Romanian/Hungarian builders to move here. Offer them all a free plot of land somewhere that they can build their own home on, as long as they agree to work for the construction trade. Its workforce we need. We have the planning permissions already. We have the developers. But SF (probably) doesn't like immigration, so wouldn't be in favour of that.

                                        The second best thing is to do something smart on costs. But that seems to be a global problem, so not sure what we can do there. The gov scheme to subsidise the building of a few thousand apartments recently was actually a really smart idea. A smallish amount of cost to get a largish amount of apartments built, that are currently stalled on the fact that the cost of building exceeds the price that can be reasonably achieved from selling.
                                        U forgot the Moldovans
                                        fine workers
                                        put them all on Bull island
                                        build the be Jesus out of it

                                        Comment


                                          Originally posted by eamonhonda View Post

                                          Awful muck being talked in the bbv, more music chat needed. Just back from sonar, how great is it to have festivals back.

                                          For Those I Love, while definitely won't be a lot of people's cup of tea, might have been the most passion I've ever seen from a music performance ever.
                                          When I was at Primavera the other week amid all the messing, there was talk of moving the gang to Sonar instead (already been a few defections). Sticking with Prima for next year at least.

                                          Not been at Sonar for more than a decade so am interested to head back. Was chatting to a mate the other day who was there with me last time, mentioned having a weird time at Anti-Sonar afterwards to which he rebutted by telling how he got dance-mugged at it. A load of 'revelers' lifted him up and were carrying him around which he thought was great craic until he realised they'd been going through his pockets....

                                          Comment


                                            I’ve been in his company a few times and he’s great value. This is very good.

                                            https://podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcas...=1000566696483
                                            His rival it seems, had broken his dreams,By stealing the girl of his fancy.Her name was Magill, and she called herself Lil,But everyone knew her as Nancy.

                                            Comment


                                              Originally posted by balfejohn View Post

                                              U forgot the Moldovans
                                              fine workers
                                              put them all on Bull island
                                              build the be Jesus out of it
                                              it’s a nature preserve and also home to where I play golf
                                              most weeks
                                              His rival it seems, had broken his dreams,By stealing the girl of his fancy.Her name was Magill, and she called herself Lil,But everyone knew her as Nancy.

                                              Comment


                                                Had a good run, nearly 2.5 years but one night in Dubland and a fellow so close to me on the luas i thought he was going to shift me and im riddled, sore throat since Monday afternoon, was in Dublin saturday night, throat got progressively worse along with feeling a little achey, no more than a usual head cold in fairness so took a test this morning and within 30s the line went bright red.
                                                Im no longer a Unicorn.
                                                This too shall pass.

                                                Comment


                                                  Going to Rock Werchter next week, first festival in a while. Can't wait, also our first trip away without the kids so will be interesting!
                                                  Rock Werchter 2022 takes place from 30 June to 3 July 2022 at the Festivalpark in Werchter. four days, four stages with the biggest headliners, young talents, raging rockers, incredible singer-songwriters, new names and the coolest beats around.

                                                  Comment


                                                    Originally posted by oleras View Post
                                                    Had a good run, nearly 2.5 years but one night in Dubland and a fellow so close to me on the luas i thought he was going to shift me and im riddled, sore throat since Monday afternoon, was in Dublin saturday night, throat got progressively worse along with feeling a little achey, no more than a usual head cold in fairness so took a test this morning and within 30s the line went bright red.
                                                    Im no longer a Unicorn.
                                                    That'll learn ya to visit De Nortsoide. Mission Accomplished.
                                                    "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                                                    Comment


                                                      Originally posted by oleras View Post
                                                      Had a good run, nearly 2.5 years but one night in Dubland and a fellow so close to me on the luas i thought he was going to shift me and im riddled, sore throat since Monday afternoon, was in Dublin saturday night, throat got progressively worse along with feeling a little achey, no more than a usual head cold in fairness so took a test this morning and within 30s the line went bright red.
                                                      Im no longer a Unicorn.
                                                      Gratz
                                                      "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

                                                      Comment


                                                        Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

                                                        But on one specific point: the whole let's just build loads of homes!, as everyone pointed out is clearly ridiculous...
                                                        Nobody pointed that out! it's not ridiculous, it's the only solution. Nobody said it was easy!

                                                        It has to be pointed out because most people have not reached this conclusion and think the solution is some form of price control

                                                        Comment


                                                          Originally posted by oleras View Post
                                                          Had a good run, nearly 2.5 years but one night in Dubland and a fellow so close to me on the luas i thought he was going to shift me and im riddled, sore throat since Monday afternoon, was in Dublin saturday night, throat got progressively worse along with feeling a little achey, no more than a usual head cold in fairness so took a test this morning and within 30s the line went bright red.
                                                          Im no longer a Unicorn.
                                                          Like i said

                                                          DUBLIN has him now. ( hangover movie ref)

                                                          Comment


                                                            Originally posted by dobby View Post

                                                            Yeah, voice was drowned out by the music and none of it was loud enough. The point is an easy venue to get to and access, it just sounds shite inside it.

                                                            I was brought by the Mrs who is a massive fan. She enjoyed herself and said it was a great gig which is all that matters in this house.
                                                            Sound for Alanis was great. I think Beths set up was wrong. Surprisingly. She was still good. Felt sorry for her. Vicar st would suit her more

                                                            Comment


                                                              When you have the likes of Frank McDonald are getting column inches writing about housing you have no chance. He genuinely believes (as do many others) that supply has no effect on pricing.

                                                              Comment


                                                                Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post

                                                                Nobody pointed that out! it's not ridiculous, it's the only solution. Nobody said it was easy!

                                                                It has to be pointed out because most people have not reached this conclusion and think the solution is some form of price control
                                                                Yeah this. Irish people think they can have affordable housing and economic growth, without building new housing. Defeating populism will require educating the populace about supply/demand as it applies to a city like Dublin in a country like Ireland. We're either going to need a massively expensive public transport system, or we'll need to start creating density in the city centre, or both. Either way it will involve the demolition of existing infrastructure, loss of green spaces, sunlight, views etc etc. The alternative is to let the populists have the reigns for a few years and let people realise they've been duped. Doesn't seem like much of an option to me.

                                                                Really our entire planning infrastructure needs a complete overhaul. It should start with the establishment of a state agency with full authority and financial backing to build whatever is needed, and the ability to override local councils where necessary. We need big picture, long term planning based on future needs. We also need a government to test the limits of Article 4 and raise a constitutional amendment if one is needed. Now that'll be a hard sell to the electorate.
                                                                "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

                                                                Comment


                                                                  Originally posted by Micknail View Post

                                                                  Can only speak for myself but I've voted for a plethora of different party candidates, but obviously can't even get a proper answer out of LL.
                                                                  Wasn't having a go at who you've voted for now or any other time. It's up to you if you want to say who, but not specifically relevant.
                                                                  But I was making a genuine point, you asked how an SF voter can reconcile their illicit past. I was asking how FF/FG voters do it regarding there respective past/origin.

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    The above is exactly the areas that require change.

                                                                    It’s a shame that FFG didn’t declare an emergency on this stuff a few year’s ago and get working on the type of structural legislative (and potentially constitutional) change required.

                                                                    The ugly truth is that solving the housing crisis probably involves some lowering of prices / value for established property. People object bitterly to new development in the general vicinity of their house because lower density, less people and less busy equals higher prices. We are creating - as noted above by someone yesterday - a two tier system. Those who have housing and leverage the generational wealth created by it and those who do not. This will create a left / right divide in Irish politics built around a more extreme urban politics.


                                                                    If SF get in it will be on a mandate to make real change in the areas Andy covers above. And they’ll have no choice - they won’t be able to avoid making progress or straddle both sides of the conversation. If they actually try to do something, we’ll be headed to the Supreme Court. And let’s go.
                                                                    "Worldly wisdom teaches that it is better for reputation to fail conventionally than to succeed unconventionally." - John Maynard Keynes

                                                                    Comment


                                                                      Originally posted by MysteryGuest View Post
                                                                      Nobody Rustles better
                                                                      Makes me feel sad for the rest
                                                                      Nobody rustles jimmies quite as good as you
                                                                      Lloydy you’re the best
                                                                      This thread has definitely hardened in its attitudes over the years. People have gotten older, wealthier and have more to lose. It’s a fairly normal progression.

                                                                      Not that there wasn’t a lean towards these ideas on this thread 12 year’s ago. But the conversation wasn’t as personalised, and there were no implications you were a racist for voting for SF.

                                                                      In general we’re becoming more divided in the western world with conversations tending towards the extremes.
                                                                      "Worldly wisdom teaches that it is better for reputation to fail conventionally than to succeed unconventionally." - John Maynard Keynes

                                                                      Comment


                                                                        Originally posted by LuckyLloyd View Post

                                                                        This thread has definitely hardened in its attitudes over the years. People have gotten older, wealthier and have more to lose. It’s a fairly normal progression.

                                                                        If SF get in it will be on a mandate to make real change in the areas Andy covers above.
                                                                        You haven't once addressed the inconvenient truth that Sinn Fein is running on a platform that is the opposite of the real changes Andy sums up well. Are we supposed to believe it's a cunning ruse that once in power SF will completely reverse course?

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post

                                                                          You haven't once addressed the inconvenient truth that Sinn Fein is running on a platform that is the opposite of the real changes Andy sums up well. Are we supposed to believe it's a cunning ruse that once in power SF will completely reverse course?
                                                                          They’re not running on any platform right now Daragh. I fully expect their manifesto for the next election when it comes will include planning changes, etc. And I’ll be happy to discuss same in detail when the time comes, you have my word on that.
                                                                          "Worldly wisdom teaches that it is better for reputation to fail conventionally than to succeed unconventionally." - John Maynard Keynes

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            SF’s 2020 manifesto had massive holes in it and lacked the right emphasis in multiple areas. But their manifesto and deployed candidates indicate they were caught cold by the level of support they commanded.

                                                                            They have had time to prepare for the big show (MLM has clearly been personally preparing herself in terms of health and fitness) and I have high hopes.
                                                                            "Worldly wisdom teaches that it is better for reputation to fail conventionally than to succeed unconventionally." - John Maynard Keynes

                                                                            Comment


                                                                              Originally posted by Ed View Post

                                                                              When I was at Primavera the other week amid all the messing, there was talk of moving the gang to Sonar instead (already been a few defections). Sticking with Prima for next year at least.

                                                                              Not been at Sonar for more than a decade so am interested to head back. Was chatting to a mate the other day who was there with me last time, mentioned having a weird time at Anti-Sonar afterwards to which he rebutted by telling how he got dance-mugged at it. A load of 'revelers' lifted him up and were carrying him around which he thought was great craic until he realised they'd been going through his pockets....
                                                                              Done about 7 sonars but never been to primavera so can't vouch for a comparison, but it's without doubt my favorite week of the year, for the festival itself but our group of mates make every effort to show up no matter where they are in the world so that's what makes it special. I find it very well run, over the years the day part has got much more experimental and often wouldn't know anyone on the lineup until the later stages of the day festival, and the night part.

                                                                              You also have off sonar parties of course which you could easily sub in for the day festival for the best pick of acts, but I could never miss the night festival.

                                                                              Only complaint this year would be 3e water in 35 degree heatwave!
                                                                              airport, lol

                                                                              Comment


                                                                                Originally posted by Mellor View Post
                                                                                But I was making a genuine point, you asked how an SF voter can reconcile their illicit past. I was asking how FF/FG voters do it regarding there respective past/origin.
                                                                                What a strange analogy.

                                                                                There are current SF public representatives, North and South, who have murdered people. You can't say that about FF or FG.

                                                                                It would be pretty odd to ask a FF voter to take into account Civil War incidents. Or, say, a Democratic voter in the US to take account of Jim Crow.
                                                                                "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                  Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post

                                                                                  What a strange analogy.

                                                                                  There are current SF public representatives, North and South, who have murdered people. You can't say that about FF or FG.

                                                                                  It would be pretty odd to ask a FF voter to take into account Civil War incidents. Or, say, a Democratic voter in the US to take account of Jim Crow.
                                                                                  Whats your timeline for discouting atrocities?

                                                                                  Or the banking fiasco ? raiding the future of our children. Must go back to the posts fromback then.

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                    Originally posted by LuckyLloyd View Post
                                                                                    The above is exactly the areas that require change.

                                                                                    It’s a shame that FFG didn’t declare an emergency on this stuff a few year’s ago and get working on the type of structural legislative (and potentially constitutional) change required.

                                                                                    The ugly truth is that solving the housing crisis probably involves some lowering of prices / value for established property. People object bitterly to new development in the general vicinity of their house because lower density, less people and less busy equals higher prices. We are creating - as noted above by someone yesterday - a two tier system. Those who have housing and leverage the generational wealth created by it and those who do not. This will create a left / right divide in Irish politics built around a more extreme urban politics.


                                                                                    If SF get in it will be on a mandate to make real change in the areas Andy covers above. And they’ll have no choice - they won’t be able to avoid making progress or straddle both sides of the conversation. If they actually try to do something, we’ll be headed to the Supreme Court. And let’s go.
                                                                                    To be clear I don't think any of that is in Sinn Fein's plans or will appear in their manifesto SF in power will do very little that FFG aren't already doing to increase supply. They'll add price controls that will make the problem worse, blame everyone but themselves for their inevitable failures, then seek reelection on a "drain the swamp" type campaign. If they actually propose to do this I'll hold my nose and vote for them.

                                                                                    I also don't think people care that much about density reducing house prices as much as they do about it changing the look and feel of their areas, increasing traffic, and reducing quality of services. People in general don't think new housing or dense housing should be built, they just don't think it should be built near where they live. It's sad that they can't tell the difference. We're a nation of nimbys and changing that will require more than legislative effort.
                                                                                    "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                      I remember this struck a chord

                                                                                      A 32-year-old employee of Anglo Irish Bank committed suicide after suffering emotional trauma from the abuse of angry members of the public at the height of the banking crisis.

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                        The banking crisis and events leading up to it were scandalous, but I'm not sure it really compares to decades of muder & torture.

                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                          Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post

                                                                                          What a strange analogy.

                                                                                          There are current SF public representatives, North and South, who have murdered people. You can't say that about FF or FG.
                                                                                          You once could say it about FFG. Dev and the boys walked into Parliament and that was over as a talking point. If MLM walks into an office on Merrion Street with her name on the door it will be over as a talking point too. I know some of ye disagree on that, but it’s woven into our political history.
                                                                                          "Worldly wisdom teaches that it is better for reputation to fail conventionally than to succeed unconventionally." - John Maynard Keynes

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                                                                                            Great to see you posting again, Lloyd.

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                                                                                              Originally posted by LuckyLloyd View Post

                                                                                              You once could say it about FFG. Dev and the boys walked into Parliament and that was over as a talking point. If MLM walks into an office on Merrion Street with her name on the door it will be over as a talking point too. I know some of ye disagree on that, but it’s woven into our political history.
                                                                                              One of those two was engaged in a campaign of ethnic cleansing run as cover for a criminal organisation running drug and protection rackets, the other wasn't.
                                                                                              Turning millions into thousands

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                                                                                                Originally posted by LuckyLloyd View Post

                                                                                                You once could say it about FFG. Dev and the boys walked into Parliament and that was over as a talking point. If MLM walks into an office on Merrion Street with her name on the door it will be over as a talking point too. I know some of ye disagree on that, but it’s woven into our political history.
                                                                                                Or. You get an unpleasant Kurt Waldheim type moment.

                                                                                                The past is never dead, it's not even past.
                                                                                                "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

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                                                                                                  Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post
                                                                                                  The banking crisis and events leading up to it were scandalous, but I'm not sure it really compares to decades of muder & torture.
                                                                                                  Really depends which victims you are talking to . I'm sure the practice of SFs ideology has caused major conflicts within the ranks that are still felt today but if you ignore the MAJOR following they have who are prepared to accept there has been progress towards an ideology in a manner more palatable to them , ye are in for a shock. We are going to have to accept they may be the next government of Ireland. So we need to work with them and not against them . The likes of SP almost Paisley like on the pulpit wont help in my view .

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                                                                                                    I really like eggs . They are very nice . Eat more eggs .

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                                                                                                      Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post

                                                                                                      Or. You get an unpleasant Kurt Waldheim type moment.

                                                                                                      The past is never dead, it's not even past.
                                                                                                      Its fascinating how long stuff can stay buried but it never goes away.

                                                                                                      Originally posted by LuckyLloyd
                                                                                                      You once could say it about FFG. Dev and the boys walked into Parliament and that was over as a talking point.
                                                                                                      And therein lies a problem, it ( mostly the civil war) was no longer a talking point but it was never resolved, the pain and the tensions within communities and families still simmers quietly beneath the surface.


                                                                                                      Turning millions into thousands

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                                                                                                        Originally posted by LuckyLloyd View Post
                                                                                                        In general we’re becoming more divided in the western world with conversations tending towards the extremes.
                                                                                                        There is nothing in the least bit extreme about pointing out the fact that SF/IRA branded themselves as revolutionary freedom fighters but were actually nothing but a front for a criminal mafia. That was just an objective fact verified time and again by the behaviour of the participants and by the evidence presented to and the judgments handed down by our courts.
                                                                                                        It is also a fact that we re choosing to bury alongside the civil way but it will not go away as long as there are any Unionist people left living on the island.
                                                                                                        Turning millions into thousands

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                                                                                                          Originally posted by Solksjaer! View Post
                                                                                                          I really like eggs . They are very nice . Eat more eggs .
                                                                                                          Smashing quote, eggciting times ahead for all yolks from all parts of our country.
                                                                                                          Unionists or republicans

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                                                                                                            So got the car back the other day.
                                                                                                            New window regulator fitted.
                                                                                                            Corrosion to top shock mount cutaway and plate welded over.
                                                                                                            Few bulbs apparently..
                                                                                                            €150 inc vat so happy with that.

                                                                                                            They missed the fog light bulb mind you so had to change that myself.

                                                                                                            Booked the retest immediately and turned up this at 8am with the swagger of a man who know hes going to sail through.

                                                                                                            Guy with the clipboard "youre not on the list, do you have confirmation"
                                                                                                            "right here"I say clicking on the email "oh bollox! it's for tomorrow"
                                                                                                            Clipboard guy couldnt have looked happier "see ya in the morning" he goes..... the cheeky bastard!




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                                                                                                              Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post

                                                                                                              There is nothing in the least bit extreme about pointing out the fact that SF/IRA branded themselves as revolutionary freedom fighters but were actually nothing but a front for a criminal mafia. That was just an objective fact verified time and again by the behaviour of the participants and by the evidence presented to and the judgments handed down by our courts.
                                                                                                              It is also a fact that we re choosing to bury alongside the civil way but it will not go away as long as there are any Unionist people left living on the island.
                                                                                                              Has anyone got the words for a Nation once again
                                                                                                              grand tune

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                                                                                                                Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post

                                                                                                                There is nothing in the least bit extreme about pointing out the fact that SF/IRA branded themselves as revolutionary freedom fighters but were actually nothing but a front for a criminal mafia. That was just an objective fact verified time and again by the behaviour of the participants and by the evidence presented to and the judgments handed down by our courts.
                                                                                                                It is also a fact that we re choosing to bury alongside the civil way but it will not go away as long as there are any Unionist people left living on the island.
                                                                                                                Did you see any of Derry Girls? Cracking series I thought. Anyway, had a great little ending:

                                                                                                                https://youtu.be/Q0aKCB-gdRI

                                                                                                                It’s been a quarter century Tony, time to move on.
                                                                                                                "Worldly wisdom teaches that it is better for reputation to fail conventionally than to succeed unconventionally." - John Maynard Keynes

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                                                                                                                  https://twitter.com/daveirl/status/1...3D5w2WJMbguKQQ

                                                                                                                  Pretty cool i though

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                                                                                                                    https://twitter.com/daveirl/status/1...3D5w2WJMbguKQQ

                                                                                                                    Pretty cool i thought

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                                                                                                                      Back to music over politics.

                                                                                                                      The 3 day Primavera festival in Porto was brilliant, or, at least the two days that I got to. Flew out of Dublin Wednesday and arrived in Porto around 11:00pm. Nipped out for a few drinks just to get a feel of where we were staying and home by 2am.

                                                                                                                      Up Thursday morning, sprinting to the toilet. Decided to stay at home as the others went out for breakfast to lash Imodium into me and to be close to the toilet...

                                                                                                                      A few hours later, we headed to the festival. As we're standing at the bus stop, I feel a cold sweat coming over me and bolt back to the Air BnB, which, thankfully, was very close by and spent the night not knowing which end of my body to place over the toilet - haven't been that violently ill in a long time. The rest of the crew fell in the door around 4am.

                                                                                                                      Friday morning, I pumped as much drugs as possible into myself and had the most miserable breakfast of dry toast and a boiled egg and then headed to the festival. Had some food there and swerved the booze bar one beer watching Beck. Bailed at 2am while the rest stayed on until after 5.

                                                                                                                      Saturday, I was right as rain and rearing to go. ALL the food and ALL the drink was consumed and it was a proper festival day. No idea when we got home.

                                                                                                                      Music highlights were Little Simz, Beck, Gorillaz, King Krule, Interpol and a nice chilled session from Slowdive as the sun set.

                                                                                                                      Sunday was up and over to Lamego in the Douro Valley for 3 days of full on rancho relaxo spending the day by the pool, sipping cool drinks and the evenings doing wine tours/eating good food/drinking really good cheap wine - Not a Tuesday wine to be seen but yet all were cheaper than a Tuesday wine, go figure, fucking Irish taxes on booze! Checked on one of the wines we drank a fair bit of and retail price in Dublin is 24 quid where as restaurant price in Lamego was 29 quid and we were most likely paying a tourist tax at that.

                                                                                                                      Absolutely super week. It's so unbelievably amazing to be back at festivals. Throw in a lovely bit of sunshine that just makes the whole vibe even better and you're away on a hack - Can't wait to go again!

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                                                                                                                        At Riverdance tonight. I gotta say ... fucking class. The daughter took an hour to sleep asking me to talk her through the pay and conditions of her future career as a professional Irish dancer.
                                                                                                                        "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

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                                                                                                                          Night out with:
                                                                                                                          1 * environmental campaigner
                                                                                                                          1 * multi millionaire
                                                                                                                          1 * bum
                                                                                                                          1 * journalist

                                                                                                                          Will be tough to seize the day tomorrow.
                                                                                                                          "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

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