Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - Wordle Gummidge

[Lazare]

Speaking of golf i'd say im well clear of Lazare after a decent run before the cut sitting on -1 after 33 holes.

Sorry Pokerhand

Nice. Bogeyed yesterday, but a birdie today cancelled it out.

+1 thru 35

[elbows]

Must be nearly time for entries for this year Cheltenham Comp. No chance of this much run good again.

[Micknail]

The issue is that this shouldn't be a condition of passing a driving test. Progress is something people pick up with a bit of experience.

Nope, progress is something you get the hang of prior to taking your test, something the minimum of 12 lessons should have taught you.

If you can't drive to the speed limit, you are fucking everyone behind you over.

[Lazare]

Driving thirty years and I've never heard that before.

In an 80kmh zone you must drive at 80 (assuming clear calm weather)? I have to say it sounds like bollox.

Also have no idea what you guys mean by progress.

[Micknail]

Driving thirty years and I've never heard that before.

In an 80kmh zone you must drive at 80 (assuming clear calm weather)? I have to say it sounds like bollox.

Also have no idea what you guys mean by progress.

Ah heyor, 30 years? That's probably from the time they gave out licences from lucky bags.

Think both my Dad and my Uncle got their licences back in the day without a test as the backlog was so long? Irish solutions wha? Dad had ticked all the boxes too so he could drive anything, lorries, buses, the lot!

The intention of progress is basically don't hold up people behind you by dawdling / accelerating slowly / not driving to the speed limit.

Also, back to the original point, this is why people should get a licence as young as possible, before sense of entitlement and grandeur make them insist they know better than how everyone is tested.

[Degag]

It's definitely a thing where you should be driving as close as possible to the speed limit in normal driving conditions.

[Lazare]

Ah heyor, 40 years? That's probably from the time they gave out licences from lucky bags.

Think both my Dad and my Uncle got their licences back in the day without a test as the backlog was so long? Irish solutions wha? Dad had ticked all the boxes too so he could drive anything, lorries, buses, the lot!

The intention of progress is basically don't hold up people behind you by dawdling / accelerating slowly / not driving to the speed limit.

Also, back to the original point, this is why people should get a licence as young as possible, before sense of entitlement and grandeur make them insist they know better than how everyone is tested.

Driving since as soon as I was legally able to so almost 29 years, passed the test first go in 1996.

Have never heard of progress in that context before. Would tend to drive that way mostly anyway, but on occasion I'd drive slightly slower than the limit.

Always thought of a speed limit as exactly that, a limit, not a target.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

Nope, progress is something you get the hang of prior to taking your test, something the minimum of 12 lessons should have taught you.

If you can't drive to the speed limit, you are fucking everyone behind you over.

No. It's natural to drive more cautiously at the beginning in a city with all manners of cyclists and pedestrians. And it's not 'something the minimum of 12 lessons should have taught you' as the majority of people, after those 12 lessons, fail their test. The purpose of the driving test should be: have you grasped the essence of safe driving. And should acknowledge that due to driving test nerves, and the natural caution of beginning safe drivers, the 'progress' part might be a bit lacking. A test that has become almost exclusively about progress, as the main reason for now failing, is an awful focus of the driving test, and what it was originally intended to be.

[ArmaniJeans]

It seems strange that you could fail your test for something that wouldn't be a criminal offence nor cost you a penalty point.
Also I always thought the Gardai/safety associations had regular campaigns emphasising that 'the speed limit is not a target'.

[Lazare]

When I passed my test the one thing the tester said I was close to failing on was not checking my wing mirror often enough.

Said he passed me because plenty of cars have no wing mirrors.

I reckon it was the skirt I wore though.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

The issue is after they implemented the 12 lessons minimum, most people started turning up able to drive, so they changed the rules.

[Lazare]

It seems strange that you could fail your test for something that wouldn't be a criminal offence nor cost you a penalty point.
Also I always thought the Gardai/safety associations had regular campaigns emphasising that 'the speed limit is not a target'.

Yeah, I'm calling massive bollox on this. Want links to proof.

[Micknail]

Well emphasis on the word minimum Hitch, if you still can't do the basics from 12 lessons, you should either take more, or as most people you point out above take the test and fail.

[Micknail]

It seems strange that you could fail your test for something that wouldn't be a criminal offence nor cost you a penalty point.
Also I always thought the Gardai/safety associations had regular campaigns emphasising that 'the speed limit is not a target'.

I've listed the grade of failing to make progress below, you'd have to sit at a green light for 40 seconds I reckon to get a grade 3 insta fail mark tbf.

Which would suggest it was a recurring issue for it to be a fail.

11. Progress:
Slight inability/unwillingness to make progress.

Inadequate progress Including at traffic lights.

Causing obstruction.
Unnecessary delay, or causing severe obstruction at traffic lights.


So it's right there in the marking scheme.
Driving test is not solely marking you on laws / rules of the road, but also your finesse / car control / ability to drive in a manner that all road users should be able to.

[Micknail]

Is this what Twitter is like?

[Solksjaer!]

Ah heres . Progress simply means keeping with the pace of the traffic. Furtively driving is not doing that .

[ArmaniJeans]

........
Driving test is not solely marking you on laws / rules of the road, but also your finesse / car control / ability to drive in a manner that all road users should be able to.

Cheers, seems clear enough.
But I do think they are exceeding their authority there (or what should be their authority).
The law has decided that 53kph is a 50kph zone is wrong, so they are entitled to x you for that.
If the law has nothing to say about 47kph in the same zone, then I don't see how the examining system can assume that right.
The system then just becomes the personal driving preferences of the current admin board of examiners, which I don't believe was ever the intention.

[Strewelpeter]

It's a speed limit, not a target

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

I was mentioning this to some lady in the credit union, in passing, and a guy sitting on a chair in the queue shouted out "it's because they're a shower of cunts, and always have been".

I feel that's case closed. They have been consistently shown to target a failure rate. And as people have been turning up better prepared, they have had to adjust the rules for how they fail.

[Solksjaer!]

I was mentioning this to some lady in the credit union, in passing, and a guy sitting on a chair in the queue shouted out "it's because they're a shower of cunts, and always have been".

I feel that's case closed. They have been consistently shown to target a failure rate. And as people have been turning up better prepared, they have had to adjust the rules for how they fail.

From whst i see on the M50 they didnt fail enough people .

[Micknail]

Cheers, seems clear enough.
But I do think they are exceeding their authority there (or what should be their authority).
The law has decided that 53kph is a 50kph zone is wrong, so they are entitled to x you for that.
If the law has nothing to say about 47kph in the same zone, then I don't see how the examining system can assume that right.
The system then just becomes the personal driving preferences of the current admin board of examiners, which I don't believe was ever the intention.

Wait, are we all actually believing Hitchs tale of failing for doing 47kph once? How do we know it wasn't due to him taking all day to get up to that speed?

Also, we surely all know that 100kph on your speedo isn't actually 100kph?

[Micknail]

I feel that's case closed. They have been consistently shown to target a failure rate. And as people have been turning up better prepared, they have had to adjust the rules for how they fail.

Right, this is up there with Guards have to give out a minimum number of speed fines every month.
They obviously make people fail to adhere to speed limits.

From whst i see on the M50 they didnt fail enough people .

Middle lane hoggers amirite.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

Wait, are we all actually believing Hitchs tale of failing for doing 47kph once? How do we know it wasn't due to him taking all day to get up to that speed?

Also, we surely all know that 100kph on your speedo isn't actually 100kph?

Yeah, I was a bit slow. My point is that should be viewed as a natural feature of being a learner driver. The pass point used to be obeying the driving laws and showing reasonable competence. Because everyone started being able to do that they then shifted into judging people on a stage that's more advanced than the requirements to be able to get on the road.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

On another matter, I'm watching The Apprentice One Championship on Netflix at the moment. What a mad difference between The Apprentice UK. Everyone a superstar. You kinda see how Singapore is such an economic powerhouse after watching it.

[Micknail]

Other than getting caught speeding / drunk driving, or being involved in a crash, the driving test is literally the only time you will be checked upon to see if you are being a fit and proper driver.

It should be strict. But it's not harsh.
I've never heard of anyone failing with a single grade 3 error.

[Micknail]

On another matter, I'm watching The Apprentice One Championship on Netflix at the moment. What a mad difference between The Apprentice UK. Everyone a superstar. You kinda see how Singapore is such an economic powerhouse after watching it.

Ok but is the UK being cast for good TV moreso than good business person?

[hotspur]

I just took a look at the RSA booklet and the driving faults assessment guidelines. I love how the grade 3 faults are phrased. There are some great ones.

Dangerously incompetent use of primary control.
Overtaking while being overtaken.
Beckoning dangerously to other road users.
Wilful disregard of speed limit.

[ArmaniJeans]

On another matter, I'm watching The Apprentice One Championship on Netflix at the moment. What a mad difference between The Apprentice UK. Everyone a superstar. You kinda see how Singapore is such an economic powerhouse after watching it.

I'll probably watch The One Championship, (though annoyingly I got spoilered on the winner when googling for basic background about it) but I don't think it will have the charm of the UK edition. There's something great every year about the collective teamwork of gobby Northern lass, Cockney Geezer, tousle-haired public school boy and second generation immigrant with chip on shoulder.

It's completely flawed, a structural mess and Sugar is little more than a caricature at this stage, but its still great fun.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

On another matter, I'm watching The Apprentice One Championship on Netflix at the moment. What a mad difference between The Apprentice UK. Everyone a superstar. You kinda see how Singapore is such an economic powerhouse after watching it.

SPOILER

There's a moment near the end of the series where you see something close to the perfect pitch. Just beautiful. Wiping out the opponents in a way there was no possible comeback.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

Other than getting caught speeding / drunk driving, or being involved in a crash, the driving test is literally the only time you will be checked upon to see if you are being a fit and proper driver.

It should be strict. But it's not harsh.
I've never heard of anyone failing with a single grade 3 error.

A single grade three error is an automatic fail, no?

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

I'll probably watch The One Championship, (though annoyingly I got spoilered on the winner when googling for basic background about it) but I don't think it will have the charm of the UK edition. There's something great every year about the collective teamwork of gobby Northern lass, Cockney Geezer, tousle-haired public school boy and second generation immigrant with chip on shoulder.

It's completely flawed, a structural mess and Sugar is little more than a caricature at this stage, but its still great fun.

Ah feck, I hate that.

It's the boss in it. He's just an amazing person imho. I get the humour of Sugar and Co, but it's a bit refreshing watching genuine business potential, while everyone in the UK one is largely a caricature.

One small issue with the Singapore one:

SPOILER

There's far too much reliance on PowerPoint as the end goal, while UK Apprentice has some great fun judgement outcomes.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

I just took a look at the RSA booklet and the driving faults assessment guidelines. I love how the grade 3 faults are phrased. There are some great ones.

Ha, that's brilliantly emotional. Like as if they asked someone about bad drivers in the middle of an interaction with a bad driver as they are at maximum high temper.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

Anyway, the key point is that we've evidently calmed down Tyler and DP about how straightforward the driving licence process is. So that's our good deed for the day.

[DeeBrown]

Bringing the youngest kid to an ability test in CTYI next weekend. They have to do a vocabulary and reasoning test. My very basic question - would a kid in the equivalent of 1st class be expected to be able to read by themselves? Or would the assumption be that they would have the questions read to them at that age? He only does an hour or two a week in English, so probably wouldn't have English reading fully nailed down. But is grand with actually answering the sample questions.

My daughter did that years ago so it might have changed but she recalls it
as a series of single line questions
with multiple choice options for the answers.
ie: he will be handed a test paper
and expected to read it himself.
The psychologist interview was verbal.

She ended up doing some kind of
CSi Miami style criminology course
but tired of it after a year
and didn't go back for a 2nd course.
Felt like she was being studied
as opposed to being educated.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

My daughter did that years ago so it might have changed but she recalls it
as a series of single line questions
with multiple choice options for the answers.
ie: he will be handed a test paper
and expected to read it himself.
The psychologist interview was verbal.

She ended up doing some kind of
CSi Miami style criminology course
but tired of it after a year
and didn't go back for a 2nd course.
Felt like she was being studied
as opposed to being educated.

Thanks!

What age was she when she did it? Feck, he'd be quite slow at reading, as English reading is something he is only getting a hang of now. I'd assumed the test would be culture-neutral, as in, some core measure of intelligence rather than making it dependent on language.

Yikes, that doesn't sound great on the courses. I don't know if its just the French system, but his maths homework at the moment is counting to 50, while he is ridiculously more advanced than that, and we want to give him some outlets to enjoy learning as he seems to genuinely love learning things.

[RichieM]

Yeah, I was a bit slow. My point is that should be viewed as a natural feature of being a learner driver. The pass point used to be obeying the driving laws and showing reasonable competence. Because everyone started being able to do that they then shifted into judging people on a stage that's more advanced than the requirements to be able to get on the road.

As someone who has just been driving for a few months I don’t think you can really judge the criteria for a competent driver let alone how to assess them.

Your concentrating on small tasks still which are important but until you can do those without thinking and observe other cars or traffic speeds and adapt to match - ie progress your not competent. That just comes with hours behind the wheel - nothing difficult about it.

[Raoul Duke III]

Don't get in a car with Hitch.

[Solksjaer!]

Anyone who has spend years commuting/travelling by bicycle will have an extra spider sense when driving imo The things ive anticipated over the years driving is down to that

[Solksjaer!]

Don't get in a car with Hitch.

We all know the real reason Hitch learned to Drive . You dont have to be Sherlock. DOGGING.

Hence your comment i guess .

[RichieM]

We all know the real reason Hitch learned to Drive . You dont have to be Sherlock. DOGGING.

Hence your comment i guess .

The l-plates and the driving instructor sitting beside you is probably a bit of a turn off alright

[tylerdurden94]

never had lessons. I can go into a pool and feel relatively comfortable (mostly because I feel I can propel myself enough to reach and edge if something happens) but really don't like being in the sea. had a couple of near misses as a kid which no doubt influenced my reluctance but overall it's never felt like something I needed to change.

Don't really like lying around sunbathing so I don't spend a lot of time on beaches or by pools anyway. have only been to the beach maybe 5 times since moving here, and by beach I mean walked along the promenade..haven't actually set a foot in sand yet

Are you still based in Malta?

My only useful advice is to find a driving instructor who you gel with. And to get twice the number of lessons you think you need. The testers are complete bollixes. I've a name of a good guy.

Yeah the wife done a pre test and said it helped her. She has recently switched job fields and is now working for an multinational insurance company so I'm hoping her family & friends deal will knock some €€€€€ off the cost of my insurance. I remember back in the day when I was looking at getting a car and getting quoted £7,000 a year

[shrapnel]

When we lived in Ireland, one of the sales reps working for my wife had failed her test 7 times, yet her job required her to drive around the whole country on a weekly basis, and that was absolutely fine on a provisional. what a seriously fucked up system!

[Goodluck2me]

Bringing the youngest kid to an ability test in CTYI next weekend. They have to do a vocabulary and reasoning test. My very basic question - would a kid in the equivalent of 1st class be expected to be able to read by themselves? Or would the assumption be that they would have the questions read to them at that age? He only does an hour or two a week in English, so probably wouldn't have English reading fully nailed down. But is grand with actually answering the sample questions.

Did it myself many years ago and remember having a very wide range of assessments from a type of SAT style English Qs to acting to maths to painting. I was around 11 I think. There will surely be something to suit him

[Goodluck2me]

When we lived in Ireland, one of the sales reps working for my wife had failed her test 7 times, yet her job required her to drive around the whole country on a weekly basis, and that was absolutely fine on a provisional. what a seriously fucked up system!

You regularly hear of people driving to their test, failing, and driving home. Mad country

[coillcam]

Give us some tips on what youve learned to improve ?

What HC are you Solks?

I'm starting off at 14.6 this year. Was 21.1 at the start of last year. My target is to try to be sub-10 which is going to be tough. I would be about 12.5 or so if winter golf was counting, so hoping I can reach that point with a few comps in March/April.

For me, there are four reasons my HC went down

1. Short game (I try to practice 1-2 hours a week, not worried as much on irons/driver as I was leaking shots here. A few wedges from say 50-70 yards but 90% is pitching/chips).
2. Putting (I practice short putts for my stroke/rhythm at home when I have 5-10 mins free every other day, at the course I always try to hit a few mid and long-range ones. Lag putting is a weakness but I generally don't have many long putts as I'm often pitching/chipping the ball close rather than making the green from long approaches).
3. Regular playing time (Try to get a round in every week to stay sharp, much better than range time imo).
4. Reduce penalties (Stop losing balls OB would be the main factor here. So improve my tee game, don't hit driver at all if I'm not happy, play the percentages rather than trying to reach the green from 200+ yards).

To get sub-10 I'll need to be better with long putts to eliminate 3-stabs, stick longer approaches (to make more GIR), be more consistent in striking overall (reduce duffs/chunks) and be more reliable off the tee.

[Micknail]

When we lived in Ireland, one of the sales reps working for my wife had failed her test 7 times, yet her job required her to drive around the whole country on a weekly basis, and that was absolutely fine on a provisional. what a seriously fucked up system!

That's a few years ago.

Learner permit drivers must be accompanied by a qualified driver (a person who holds a full driving licence in the Category for a minimum of 2 years) at all times while driving on a learner permit.

Obv this is still Ireland and people are still at it,
But now they are liable to get penalty points, a fine and maybe the car impounded.

[6starpool]

Nice. Bogeyed yesterday, but a birdie today cancelled it out.

+1 thru 35

I'm -3 after 36 now. Went on a good run recently.

0 * 1 = 0
3 * 2 = -6
10 * 3 = -10
15 * 4 = 0
3 * 5 = +3
5 * 6 = +10

[tylerdurden94]

In some personal news for the BBV folks I uploaded some wedding photos and also got nominated for a GPI award for media content for my photo at last years WSOP. I did get invited to the awards show but it's in Vegas which is a little bit too far to travel.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

As someone who has just been driving for a few months I don’t think you can really judge the criteria for a competent driver let alone how to assess them.

Your concentrating on small tasks still which are important but until you can do those without thinking and observe other cars or traffic speeds and adapt to match - ie progress your not competent. That just comes with hours behind the wheel - nothing difficult about it.

I can definitely judge the system. If you increase the number of lessons required to be allowed to sit the test, so you have more qualified students sitting the test between now and the past, and yet the pass rate stays the same over the years, then there is a target failure rate. The failure rate has become the point of the testing, rather than the ability to drive. Thats inherently wrong and unfair on students who have large costs to sit the test, most of them at a time in their lives when they don't have the resources.

[6starpool]

Thanks!

What age was she when she did it? Feck, he'd be quite slow at reading, as English reading is something he is only getting a hang of now. I'd assumed the test would be culture-neutral, as in, some core measure of intelligence rather than making it dependent on language.

Yikes, that doesn't sound great on the courses. I don't know if its just the French system, but his maths homework at the moment is counting to 50, while he is ridiculously more advanced than that, and we want to give him some outlets to enjoy learning as he seems to genuinely love learning things.

That's the homework at 6? My 4 year old regularly counts much further than that, and is pretty damn good at reading too. Maybe he can come and read the questions out to your kid. Some of his words reading will be guesses though, but that's surely only a minor point.

He'll have great fun learning the alphabet once he starts junior infants...

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

Its all fun and games to sit back and say 'oh you shouldn't be driving 47 in a 50 zone', but I've spent the last few months speaking (anecdotal I know) to all these trade professions talking about how their apprentices can't progress in their apprenticeship because of how horrific the driving test process is. Waiting years, largely grand with driving, and then to fail on reasons like that, and then having to wait another six months for a retest. As in, passing the core driving elements and failing on these side points. Its the pursuit of perfection as the starting point for driving, rather than the pursuit of reasonable enough to get started.

[6starpool]

Are you still based in Malta?

He has been in Valencia for at least the last couple of years, and likes informing us about the weather and lifestyle. I bet he secretly misses the rain and high prices though.

[tylerdurden94]

He has been in Valencia for at least the last couple of years, and likes informing us about the weather and lifestyle. I bet he secretly misses the rain and high prices though.

I did bump into him on the promenade in Malta maybe I'll keep an eye out for when I'm in Valencia

[6starpool]

Its all fun and games to sit back and say 'oh you shouldn't be driving 47 in a 50 zone', but I've spent the last few months speaking (anecdotal I know) to all these trade professions talking about how their apprentices can't progress in their apprenticeship because of how horrific the driving test process is. Waiting years, largely grand with driving, and then to fail on reasons like that, and then having to wait another six months for a retest. As in, passing the core driving elements and failing on these side points. Its the pursuit of perfection as the starting point for driving, rather than the pursuit of reasonable enough to get started.

As Micknail said, I'd be astounded if you failed because on one occasion in your test you were going at 47 in a 50 zone. It sounds like only one square of the catchphrase bonus round has been unveiled, and it's a corner piece with only a blue sky showing.

[dinekes]

And moreover its actually more difficult for a driver to keep exactly to exactly a certain speed (without cruise control obv)
Are we encouraging the poor student during their test to take their eyes off the road anxiously checking their exact speed.......fail!!

[6starpool]

I can also make a sweeping statement that anyone that didn't pass their test first time should be ashamed of themselves.

[dinekes]

I'm -3 after 36 now. Went on a good run recently.

0 * 1 = 0
3 * 2 = -6
10 * 3 = -10
15 * 4 = 0
3 * 5 = +3
5 * 6 = +10[/QUOTE]



He he he

[Pat Mustard]

I can also make a sweeping statement that anyone that didn't pass their test first time should be ashamed of themselves.

Like its not even that hard. People who give out about the driving test are people who took a number of attempts to pass or just incompetent drivers.

[6starpool]

I'm -3 after 36 now. Went on a good run recently.

0 * 1 = 0
3 * 2 = -6
10 * 3 = -10
15 * 4 = 0
3 * 5 = +3
5 * 6 = +10



He he he

You'd be better utilised learning how to use quote properly than using mr rolleyes.

[Micknail]

Final one on this.
I failed my first driving test about 16 years ago.

Passed when work quickly arranged a letter saying I needed to drive for my job (didn't really but play the game).

I've since have to retake the test for a motorbike about 3/4 years ago.
The test is fine. I'd nearly say the hand signals are obsolete at this stage as when was the last time anyone used them out of necessity?

But it was an easy pass, one blue medium mark I think, missed a turn right when asked to do so, as there was two junctions on my right and I wasn't sure. My bad.

It was fine because while waiting the 6 months between the initial basic training course and the test, I was was riding on a daily basis as allowed, and actively wanting to improve, as the consequences are quite abrupt on a bike.

All I hear from hitch is how the test is wrong and you shouldn't need be up to standard to pass a test.
I wonder would he accept the same from his students.
Ah yes they put words on a page, I'll pass them now, but hopefully with time what they actually wrote will make coherent sense.

Surely someone knows a tester / instructor. Would love to see this target failure rate nonsense quoted by a professional.