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    Sam - with the greatest respect. A month or two ago you read a conspiracy theory about Tether and then accused me of being biased when I didn't agree with your assertion. The fact is that I know the subject intimately - Myself and my company deal with Tether on a daily basis - we know the history of the company behind it and are able to judge its credit risk much better than someone learning about it for the first time - and also judge the contents of an article.

    I don't want to get sidetracked into talking about tether, but the point I am making is that it's very easy for a person with no background or experience in a subject to be led down the wrong path.and make all types of mistakes that someone with more experience in the area won't. The stuff you are reading is propaganda - it's designed to be persuasive to people like you...people how are smart and curious, back lack the necessary topical knowledge and experience to know that it's mostly nonsense.

    You need to ask yourself, is going down this rabbit hole likely to make you happier? Is it a worthwhile use of your time?

    Comment





      .
      "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

      Comment


        Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post
        BBC world service radio is still amazingly comprehensive and neutral despite all the funding cuts.
        It's not neutral. Why is there a Persian language BBC service, a mandarin one, etc etc. It's a propaganda outlet which is funded (openly) by the British government to spread 'British values' around the world.
        "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

        Comment


          Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

          It's not neutral. Why is there a Persian language BBC service, a mandarin one, etc etc. It's a propaganda outlet which is funded (openly) by the British government to spread 'British values' around the world.
          The Tories (in government for quite a few years now) HATE the BBC.

          Quite different to, say, Russia Today.
          "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

          Comment


            Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post

            The Tories (in government for quite a few years now) HATE the BBC.

            Quite different to, say, Russia Today.
            Ah, they like Russia Today?
            "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

            Comment


              The Tories are actually increasing funding for BBC Worldwide. Raoul with the type of fake news that the BBC would be proud to support.
              "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

              Comment


                Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

                It's not neutral. Why is there a Persian language BBC service, a mandarin one, etc etc. It's a propaganda outlet which is funded (openly) by the British government to spread 'British values' around the world.
                Clearly you don't listen to it.

                None of what you say is untrue but the news and documentary programming makes great efforts to give all sides a hearing as much as it can.
                Last edited by Strewelpeter; 18-07-21, 19:11.
                Turning millions into thousands

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                  Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post
                  Sam - with the greatest respect. A month or two ago you read a conspiracy theory about Tether and then accused me of being biased when I didn't agree with your assertion. The fact is that I know the subject intimately - Myself and my company deal with Tether on a daily basis - we know the history of the company behind it and are able to judge its credit risk much better than someone learning about it for the first time - and also judge the contents of an article.

                  I don't want to get sidetracked into talking about tether, but the point I am making is that it's very easy for a person with no background or experience in a subject to be led down the wrong path.and make all types of mistakes that someone with more experience in the area won't. The stuff you are reading is propaganda - it's designed to be persuasive to people like you...people how are smart and curious, back lack the necessary topical knowledge and experience to know that it's mostly nonsense.

                  You need to ask yourself, is going down this rabbit hole likely to make you happier? Is it a worthwhile use of your time?
                  To go backwards, we are all down the rabbit hole, one way or the other. But what I would say, is being drawn into this type of discourse generally isn't good for practising self care, or a productive way to spend time. It is a good exercise in trying to stay kind hearted and open hearted though, and as such maybe has merit. if it draws your from the seat if awareness, certainly isn't good. If you think of things as good or bad.

                  ​​​​​​i think some of the article I linked is nonsense. I think it raises very valid questions regarding our attitude to poverty and millions, literally dying, not in some far of time, but now. Right now. I think it is very strange that people, scientists, involved in the development of elements of the vaccine, people placed to have an voice on issues like that are being censored re their concerns. From your message I would doubt very much you have read the article, and imagine the same as others reactively and emmotively putting into under a flag of snake man conspiracy. You may again react and say of course I read it, but if I was a betting man I'd say you haven't. I could be wrong.

                  Lastly I was reactive and uniformed about tether. A lot of my friends are deeply and retired from the profits involved in crypto and while they aren't like fuck yeah, they explained to him that it in no way was what I thought it was or would have the capacity to do. I was wrong.


                  Lastly I think it's about disengenius to call that tether article conspiracy, obviously it's not. I'm not down a rabbit hole, and I think if you thought about it would realise that's projectiony stuff you may be doing. I do it too.
                  Last edited by Closed_Account; 18-07-21, 19:18.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post

                    Clearly you don't listen to it.

                    None of what you say is untrue but the news and documentary programming makes great efforts to give all sides a hearing as much as it can.
                    But that's their strategy. Build up a populations trust and then when you need that trust...

                    It's fine now when we agree with the points. But then look at Radio Free Europe and the memos from Trump requesting more interventionist RFE stories. Once you have the propaganda outlet set up, it can then be abused.

                    "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                    Comment


                      I read the article until the first unfounded claim, (a good argument is never going to follow something like that) then skipped to the conclusion, which is absolutely bonkers. It's the ravings of a madman.

                      The penultimate paragraph is quite funny, I was going to post it but thought better of it. The basis of his argument is..."trust me because it's my job to assign percentages to probabilities...and so the chance that the virus is man made is 99%. And there's also a 99% chance that governments acted together to lie about how dangerous it is for their own nefarious intention. I can't explain further now but will one day explain it all in a book. "

                      This sort of reasoning is not worth engaging with.

                      Theres a good book on conspiracy theories I'd recommend: Suspicious Minds: Why We Believe Conspiracy Theories

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by jbravado View Post

                        I think it raises very valid questions regarding our attitude to poverty and millions, literally dying, not in some far of time, but now. Right now.
                        When the dust settles and we can see in the rear view mirror how we acted to minimise the impacts of Covid and what was effective and what was not and how the economies of the world dealt with the costs it added I'm hopeful that there will be lessons learned about how we can accelerate the ongoing trajectory of reducing extreme and marginal poverty.
                        Turning millions into thousands

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                          Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post
                          I read the article until the first unfounded claim, (a good argument is never going to follow something like that) then skipped to the conclusion, which is absolutely bonkers. It's the ravings of a madman.

                          The penultimate paragraph is quite funny, I was going to post it but thought better of it. The basis of his argument is..."trust me because it's my job to assign percentages to probabilities...and so the chance that the virus is man made is 99%. And there's also a 99% chance that governments acted together to lie about how dangerous it is for their own nefarious intention. I can't explain further now but will one day explain it all in a book. "

                          This sort of reasoning is not worth engaging with.

                          Theres a good book on conspiracy theories I'd recommend: Suspicious Minds: Why We Believe Conspiracy Theories
                          Thank you for the recommendation, I will give it a read. Sincerely.

                          The parts you mention are awful, and take away from some valid stuff he broaches.

                          Obviously I dont think there is much merit, in discussing an article I am saying raises some interesting points, and that alone, when the person has sped read the opening paragraph and very end. I'm sure you would agree.

                          Again, I would venture that whatever algorithm has done to the hacked human mind, that we increasingly lack the capacity not to be backed into polar viewpoints. Conversations like this, invariably hint at such.

                          There is prob a valid case to deeply examine what conspiracy theory should 'mean' in society as we know it.

                          Your last point was probably the most important though. Its Sunday. Sunny day of snorkeling with my daughter. Backed Morikawa. In general have never been happier in my life, and practice. Right food. Meditation. Books. Do these type exchanges bring anything positive into my being? Maybe the chance to practice seat of awareness while contorted, but prob best to save that for a Monday to Friday!


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                            A last thing I find amusing is why anyone would be surprised by a single thing. We find out Obama, Trump and Biden are snake men alien people. Why would that be something outside the realms of possible given all we know about the miracle and unfathomable goings on and creation of the universe!

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                              Enjoyed this interview with documentary film-maker Ken Burns (i'd imagine most here have seen some of his work) - anyone watching his latest Ernst Hemingway one on BBC4?

                              Haven't seen it but will try to - looks like ep.3 tomorrow evening.

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                                Closed_Account ,
                                I read the document in full as a courtesy.

                                I see it almost as two separate articles.
                                Article One examines lockdowns with a critical and negative eye. It focuses on the harm they have caused, even indicating that they may have caused more ancillary deaths (or at least suffering) than they prevented. I think this has at least some merit - it is incredibly unlikely that the world has got everything correct in it's response to covid. Quite probably there were loads of mis-steps and mistakes along the way. We'll spend the next few decades debating over what was done right/wrong.

                                So to me this is all very reasonable so far - whilst on balance I disagree with it, it is well thought out and fair comment.

                                Article Two then takes a turn into a giant conspiracy theory. Now sometimes conspiracy theories are true but this one is on an absolutely massive and unwieldly scale. It involves the top people at WHO and CDC (and presumably every other major countries Disease Control organisation) and by definition all the security and intelligence services, all major governments, all international bodies - all in concert with pharmaceutical companies just to make money. Completely flogging their economies just to make some relatively small money on the side.

                                I mean, think about it in detail for any amount of time. All these international bodies, G20 governments (which in some cases have completely changed administration since it all started), their intelligence services and industrial espionage agencies. Not one of them has been able to come up with a shred of evidence that this is happening, or how it is being organised. Literally 1000s of people would have had to be involved. Not one person has had a guilty conscience and released the tape of the meeting, made a deathbed confession, left the info in a briefcase on a train or drunkenly told an entire bar. It's just impossible.

                                There's possibly good conspiracy theories out there - if you twisted my arm I could buy into some Blofeld/Drax character and a dozen henchmen manufacturing and releasing the virus just to cause chaos or make money or something. But the article you linked, the worldwide conspiracy of 'the elites' is just illogical.

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post

                                  When the dust settles and we can see in the rear view mirror how we acted to minimise the impacts of Covid and what was effective and what was not and how the economies of the world dealt with the costs it added I'm hopeful that there will be lessons learned about how we can accelerate the ongoing trajectory of reducing extreme and marginal poverty.
                                  This is like a political parties answer. Vote SP
                                  Jayzus, Sheila! I forgot me feckin' trousers

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by BennyHiFi View Post
                                    Enjoyed this interview with documentary film-maker Ken Burns (i'd imagine most here have seen some of his work) - anyone watching his latest Ernst Hemingway one on BBC4?

                                    Haven't seen it but will try to - looks like ep.3 tomorrow evening.
                                    I've been watching it, so far its interesting to watch the kind of quality you'd expect from Burns and lots of good material like interviews and film clips etc. but its not doing much to improve my opinion of Hemmingway or his writing. Seems to be an effort to elevate his writing to be those of a modernist genius who compares to Joyce, Woolf etc. I don't buy it but then I've only read a few and enjoyed them for what they were IMO posh pulp.
                                    Last edited by Strewelpeter; 18-07-21, 20:51.
                                    Turning millions into thousands

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

                                      Ah, they like Russia Today?
                                      What? No.

                                      RT is a fully subservient propaganda wing of the Kremlin.

                                      The BBC is not the British equivalent. Boris has been firing arrows in the direction ever since becoming PM.
                                      "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

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                                        Jaysis, AJ you have some patience.

                                        Once I saw the source (edit: not jbravado, the actual source) there was no way I was reading that. I'd rather look at Gemma O'Doherty's latest rant.
                                        Last edited by Raoul Duke III; 18-07-21, 21:01.
                                        "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

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                                          Have the kids for 2 weeks now that some other kids tested positive. I'm a bit perplexed and pissed off. With so many vaccinated now surely the rules need updating.

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                                            Originally posted by jbravado View Post
                                            A last thing I find amusing is why anyone would be surprised by a single thing. We find out Obama, Trump and Biden are snake men alien people. Why would that be something outside the realms of possible given all we know about the miracle and unfathomable goings on and creation of the universe!
                                            Snake men? No way.

                                            Lizard men? Maybe.

                                            liz.JPG

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                                              In other news France have banned the shredding of Male Chicks ( no raoul I dont mean transgenders) it's a quick death Apparently. Great.

                                              Comment


                                                What do we think is going to happen in the short term in the UK, after Freedom (except for Boris, lol) Day tomorrow?

                                                And what way will the population react? Keep on observing precautions or back to licking eyeballs.
                                                "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                                                Comment


                                                  Originally posted by Solksjaer! View Post
                                                  In other news France have banned the shredding of Male Chicks ( no raoul I dont mean transgenders) it's a quick death Apparently. Great.
                                                  Well, those were some facts I could have done without.

                                                  'Chicken sexing' is an actual profession, huh. That Tar fella might yet be onto something.
                                                  "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

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                                                    I once spent three hours listening to David Icke, when he was over in Trinity and I was a layabout student. He's properly into his lizardry. Hundreds of powerpoint slides all seemingly proving the lizard people conspiracy. Quite charming, but everything loses its charm around slide 256.

                                                    He seems to have made a rather well paying career out of it, in fairness to the hustle.
                                                    Last edited by Hitchhiker's Guide To...; 18-07-21, 22:08.
                                                    "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                                    Comment


                                                      IPB Open Sweep Final Standings
                                                      Looks like a squeaky bum, 1 shot, wire to wire win by SP barring a stewards inquiry.
                                                      RDIII's redonk golfer name theory has been roundly debunked.
                                                      Hope ye enjoyed the golf. If Rahm's putter was hot he would have won by 10 shots.
                                                      Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

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                                                        Dr Evil and Dr Who are signatories of the 'great barrington declaration' btw Sam - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_...on#Signatories

                                                        The appeal to authority fails not only the logic test, but also in whether that authority exists or not.

                                                        Timelines on lockdowns becoming 'an idea' are also incorrect, as my colleague who spent 3 months inside their university dormitory in China during SARS could attest to. (Though this doesn't really do much other than pick holes in the doc).

                                                        A lot of the frustration people seem to have had with the pandemic is around information. We demanded answers when there was huge uncertainty - and an awful lot of us appear thoroughly disgusted when the answers given don't adequately estimate what came next. Some suggest that scientists / Doctors / Public Health Authorities changing their guidance are flip flopping / guessing etc. This is just straightforward Bayesian reasoning though, we are learning and changing a priori beliefs on the basis of the new information that is arising.
                                                        Last edited by Emmet; 18-07-21, 22:06.

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                                                          Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

                                                          Comment


                                                            Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
                                                            What do we think is going to happen in the short term in the UK, after Freedom (except for Boris, lol) Day tomorrow?

                                                            And what way will the population react? Keep on observing precautions or back to licking eyeballs.
                                                            I've been summoned back to the office. I won't be there until I have my second jab (only got first today).

                                                            Note it's only England's 'Freedom Day'. Scotland and Wales are not partaking in the experiment.

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                                                              'Finland doesn't exist' made me lol.

                                                              ​​​​​​
                                                              I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

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                                                                I posted a while back how Shrap's cheese eating surrender monkeys making a balls of it against Scotland in the last 6 nations game when the clock was in the red cost me and the forfeit was to cook a 3 course meal for myself, Mrs Lao Lao and another couple who we are very good mates with. Well, that day was yesterday. The date was picked a good bit in advance so cooking for about 5 hours on the hottest day of the year was not ideal but I ploughed on.

                                                                I was tempted to serve them up slop but apparently that isn't in the spirit of things plus being competitive, I wanted my dinner to be the best (we've done 4 competitions and this was the 3rd dinner)

                                                                Starter was butternut squash and Amaretti ravioli with sage butter. Roasted off the butternut squash, mashed it up and mixed it with crumbled Amaretti biscuits, breadcrumbs, parmesan, nutmeg and and the yoke of an egg. Also hand made the pasta, rolled it out with a new pasta machine and then stuffed with the filling. Every one of them (12 in total) turned out perfect, not one split or burst. The sage butter is just trying off sage leaves in melted butter until they are crispy. Served with a nice oaked Chardonnay.

                                                                Main was roast duck breast, carrot puree, griddled asparagus, dauphinoise potatoes, Confit duck leg bon bons and a red wine jus. I confited the duck legs myself and managed to get the duck spot on pink. The puree was super smooth and the jus was well tasty. Everything seemed to just work right. Served the main with a nice Pinot Noir.

                                                                For dessert I said fuck this, I've done enough processes in the first two courses and bought a nice chocolate fudge cake and served it with ice cream.

                                                                Finished off the food with a cheese board. Hegarty's cheddar, Manchego, Durras, Brie and Quince paste.

                                                                Overall, I think it was one of the best meals I've ever made, even if I do say so myself. Out of the 12 plates, only the dessert ones came back with a bit of cake still on as it was quite heavy even if it was lovely, the other 8 were all spotless.

                                                                Our of the 4 competitions we've done, we've managed to have four different losers so it turns out everybody will end up cooking. The last one still to cook was cursing me for raising the bar as it puts even more pressure on them. It's not often you get cursed for serving a slap up meal but I happily took it...


                                                                Comment


                                                                  Irish (blaa county) golfer Seamus Power in the mix on the PGA tour event . It's obviously a lesser event as the top guys were in England, but there's still $600K up top, 2 year exemptions, entries to majors etc.
                                                                  He's leader in the clubhouse and also joint leader on actual leaderboard, and only 2 guys on the course could beat him. Sky Sports Mix.

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    Originally posted by ArmaniJeans View Post
                                                                    Irish (blaa county) golfer Seamus Power in the mix on the PGA tour event . It's obviously a lesser event as the top guys were in England, but there's still $600K up top, 2 year exemptions, entries to majors etc.
                                                                    He's leader in the clubhouse and also joint leader on actual leaderboard, and only 2 guys on the course could beat him. Sky Sports Mix.
                                                                    He has been playing very well lately.even with the best players playing was getting close or as they say now 'trending well' Was looking for him e way for the open but saw he wasnt playing. . Interesting guy ambedextrious can drive it 300 with both hands.

                                                                    Fingers crossed

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                                                                      Play off. This makes up for the golf I missed watching the hurling

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                                                                        Originally posted by Lazare View Post
                                                                        'Finland doesn't exist' made me lol.

                                                                        ​​​​​​
                                                                        Have you been there?

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          Bottle being shown by both of them.

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                                                                            Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post

                                                                            Have you been there?
                                                                            We have a good medal from there. The Coughlan stare.

                                                                            Comment


                                                                              Gwan Seamus Power: up the Deise

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                                                                                Originally posted by jbravado View Post
                                                                                https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?...P03Ih-XAYSQeJ8
                                                                                ​​​​​​
                                                                                I'd be interested in anyone who has the time and inclination to sit down and actually read this, with an undistracted mind. To anyone in a hurry to react emmotively and turn off after he mentions, a majority of science being being, this is of course true. Has happened innumerable times throughout history, crisis point is the term I think, that you only known what you don't know when one thing breaks kind of gig. I was utterly terrified when this whole thing began. Id also respectively say, if your inlinced to be like, load of bollox, actually do a bit of independent digging and see what you think
                                                                                Ok, so detailed reply.
                                                                                I'll preface this by saying, I do think it's good to question things, be that decisions made, what's driving them, etc. But I'd also point out that a lot of decisions are made only on available information.

                                                                                Where did lockdowns originate?

                                                                                That’s a question that isn’t asked much in the mainstream media. Well, if you look back at the WHO guidelines of 2019, pre Covid19, not only were lockdowns not recommended, but they were explicitly recommended against. https://thefatemperor.com/wp-content...lines-2019.pdf
                                                                                This line about lockdown not being advised agaisnt is simply not true. The source link is WHO guidelines for Influenza, not all possible virus. Coronavirus is not influenza. That reference and claim is bunk.
                                                                                The guidelines in that are based on transmission rates, immunity, and preexistence of vaccines. It's mainly referring to interpandemic influenza that occurs every year or every other year. But obviously SARS-CoV-2 has has higher rates of transmissions, zero existing immunity, and no preexisting vaccines. It's risk profile is entirely greater.

                                                                                For pandemic influenza, it recommends school closure, workplace closures, and strict internal travel restriction surrounding outbreaks. It doesn't recommend quarantine true, but it doesn't recommend against them as claimed either. The rationale for not recommending them is based on being difficult to implement and the low rate of transmission from flu. Note, the report also mentioned that quarantine is most effective in conjunction with contact tracing. It's pretty a reasonable to say that a more severe virus would have more restrictive guidelines. Based on the increased risk from SARS-CoV-2, it's logical that the intervention would be equal to pandemic influenza plus the next level of intervention, namely quarantine and contact tracing. That report is entirely inline with the "lockdown" response to COVID. If anything, they should have done more contact tracing - which they did in Australia an has been pretty successful.

                                                                                The idea that locking down a healthy population is a good method of fighting a virus first became public in China, 2020. The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) have what one might describe as an abysmal track record for caring for its citizens. Amongst the Uyghur concentration camps, Buddhist genocide, social credit systems, and other monstrous atrocities against humanity, the CCP were the first country to try a lockdown. Then most of the rest of the world swiftly followed.
                                                                                Well, no the idea didn't originate in china. The report that was referenced above literally refers to multiple studies on the effectiveness of quarantine. Many more than a decade one. One was a study on quarantine used effectively agaisnt the Spanish flu.

                                                                                Yes China has a horrible human rights track record. No argument there. But I don't think we can tack that on to the pandemic. The first measures happen there because the outbreak originated there. It's that simple.

                                                                                It is most people’s impression that ‘most scientists agree with lockdowns’. This has been a carefully curated narrative from day 1 of the COVID19 pandemic. In actuality, there are tens of thousands of scientists, worldwide, who are speaking out against lockdowns and their efficacy
                                                                                Yes most scientists agree. Most does not mean all agree. And the fact that some disagree doesn't mean all disagree or that the disagreeing cohort are relevant.

                                                                                One group of particular interest is called the Great Barrington Declaration: formed by epidemiologists from Oxford and Standford, signed by 43,631 medical professionals, including epidemiologists, virologists and doctors from Harvard, Cambridge, Yale, and many more prestigious universities, this is a who’s who document of ‘people at the top of the field of fighting infectious diseases’. (https://gbdeclaration.org). These people have decicated their whole lives to studying and teaching exactly what is needed to be studied and taught to combat deadly viruses
                                                                                I agree that the Great Barrington Declaration is of interest and relevant. But for different reasons.
                                                                                43,631 medical professionals and experts. Really? Has the author checked that? That's the number touted by the website. But the list of names suggests that the due diligence is lacking; Dr Person Fakename, Dr Very Dodgy Doctor, Mr Banana Rama. Of course, some are the names of real doctors, such as Dr Harrold Shipman. Although, I'm not sure if he's the kind of backing that's a benefit, considering he was a prolific serial killer and died in prison some years ago.
                                                                                Anyone can sign it on the website with a check box to say they are a medical professional or a scientific researcher. I just signed it myself under the name Dr Billy Bollox.
                                                                                The reality is the list is bollox. There have been a number of researchers from those top universities speak out against it. The medical scientist behind it are three people. One of whom is the Dr Martin Kulldord quoted. So he backs himself, meaningless.

                                                                                Here are 47 scientific papers published that demonstrate the lack of efficacy and/or disproportionate harms that lockdowns have manifested in the world.

                                                                                Here collated are the papers of shame - the lockdown ideology is destroying our societal health, selling the lie of saving lives. Lockdowns cost net sufferi ...
                                                                                Cherrypicking there.
                                                                                The previous link from the same source included many studies that showed that quarantine and other measure where high effective when strictly implemented. He can't ignore them when he relied on that opinion above.


                                                                                It is worth noting that there are many countries that barely locked down, or not locked down at all, and have had barely any COVID19 deaths:

                                                                                Nigeria: population of 201 million, COVID19 deaths 2126

                                                                                Sri Lanka: population of 21.8 million, COVID19 deaFoths 3733

                                                                                Tanzania: population of 58 million, COVID19 deaths 21

                                                                                Ghana: population of 30.4 million, COVID19 deaths 810
                                                                                Do you honestly think any of those numbers are accurate? Honest answer please Sam.
                                                                                It's interesting that people are quick to point a Chinese claimed eradication of Covid as obvious nonsense, but happy to swallow a story from some African dictator when it suits.
                                                                                None of those third world countries have close to the infrastructure needed to accurate monitor cases like that. And that's if they even wanted to.

                                                                                For example, Tanzania's president John Magufuli was a noted Covid skeptic. He declared/claimed last year, after the first wave, that since may the country was coronavirus free and did not encourage the use of face masks, no plans for vaccines. I quote: "the corona disease has been eliminated by God". Via worldometers they have publicly recorded zero covid deaths or cases since May 2020.

                                                                                That's the same President Magufuli who died in March this year from COVID btw.

                                                                                His successor has now acknowledge that Covid is an issue, and the the data should be made public.

                                                                                According to the World Bank and World Economic Forum, in the first nine months of lockdowns, 150,000,000 people were thrown into extreme poverty. These numbers could be larger or smaller, and I can’t find much clarification on what the estimates are.
                                                                                Where did this happen?
                                                                                How many of the 150m people in poverty due to lockdown are in Ireland for example. To be clear, I'm not suggesting we need to only be concerned with our own neighbours. But we are talking about state specific lockdown. Poverty in a country on the other side of the world to relevant to that countries lockdown. It's not a factor for us really. The impact of an Irish lockdown affect an Irish lockdown decision.

                                                                                I've read the claims about reduced GDP, reduced charity, reduced foreign aid. Stragne there was no references to back that up.
                                                                                For reference, the example given was the UK. In 2020, the UK's GDP was 1.5% lower than the 5 year average. I don't think this is the huge reduction claimed. I don't see how that equates to a crippling decimation of foreign aid.

                                                                                Government collusion. This part is getting into conspiracy theory. So I won't ask for proof of these secret deals. But which governments are you suggestion are involved. The superpowers, all of them? Did somebody from the UK send a memo to the Australia PM to tell him to release some fake covid stats. Or are they all jumping independently at the same opportunity. I can't quite follow the claim.

                                                                                Yes, there is no agreed way on how to count a covid death. What does the author propose? Do you have a fool proof, and objective way to count covid deaths? Does anyone. I'd love to hear it.
                                                                                Will there be come deaths that are attributed to covid where it wasn't the primary cause, probably. Was it still a factor, probably. Will some deaths be missed, probably.
                                                                                If some 60 year old is in treatment for cancer, and gets covid and dies. Maybe he would have died anyway within the year. But if covid shaved any time off his clock it should be recorded.

                                                                                Vaccines. Yes ivermectin has had some research and it may be affective. There are not lots of studies suggesting it might. On the other hand a major ivermectin study was pulled only last week due to ethical concerns. As more research emerges we will have more information. That may well mean that there's in support from vaccines to ivermectin. Either instead of, or alone side. Or the evidence might not be strong enough. That's literally what the scientific method is, changing opinion based on evidence, unlike the blind faith of religion.
                                                                                How many of those studies on Dr Pierre ivermectin existed in march 2020. You can't fault people for not using data they didn't have.
                                                                                The Dr referred to promoting ivermectin, also promoted a number of other alternative treatments that went nowhere. You can't only look at the darts that hit the board when the wall is in ribbons.
                                                                                It's also rather odd to go on a tirade about big Pharma (who are purely capital driven) to to the praise a for-profit medicine promoted by Big Pharma.

                                                                                There's a lot there I'm unsure about Sam. But there are also enough claims that I am certain are misleading or outright lies that the whole thing is garbage.
                                                                                Who is the author? Strikes me as something Ivor Cummins would put out.



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                                                                                  Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
                                                                                  What do we think is going to happen in the short term in the UK, after Freedom (except for Boris, lol) Day tomorrow?

                                                                                  And what way will the population react? Keep on observing precautions or back to licking eyeballs.
                                                                                  Think they'll be backtracking on some of it within about 6 weeks. The Netherlands and even Israel brought back indoor masking after a short break. And yeah they'll go nuts. Fully expect the reprisal of people licking toilet seats on Tik Tok.
                                                                                  Gone full 'Glinner' since June 2022.

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                                                                                    That's some research Mellor.

                                                                                    I, as one of the global leaders in the field, was inspired to sign that Declaration too. Professor Hugh Jass has thrown his weight behind the cause.
                                                                                    "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

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                                                                                      I signed it in my capacity as 'medical and public health scientist' too. None of this plebian 'concerned citizen' malarkey for me.
                                                                                      "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

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                                                                                        Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
                                                                                        That's some research Mellor.
                                                                                        It was a slow monday in the home office.

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                                                                                          I would politely suggest that believing you live in some US-centric nirvana that can morally lead the world, while also believing there are a collection of true baddies out there (China now, Russia before that, Muslims a few years ago, Japanese two decades ago, Soviets and 'commies' before that, Jews before that) that you are superior to, is as bad as believing in a lot of these conspiracy theories.
                                                                                          "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

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                                                                                            I was reading some article yesterday in the Washington Post about how the US were supporting some crackpot dictator in Haiti, and its barely a blimp of news, because their geopolitics is generally so shite.
                                                                                            "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

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                                                                                              Note to self: do much research before engaging with Mellor on the following topics -> anything under the sun


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                                                                                                Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                                                                                                I would politely suggest that believing you live in some US-centric nirvana that can morally lead the world, while also believing there are a collection of true baddies out there (China now, Russia before that, Muslims a few years ago, Japanese two decades ago, Soviets and 'commies' before that, Jews before that) that you are superior to, is as bad as believing in a lot of these conspiracy theories.
                                                                                                I think we all know that they are ALL true baddies including the US

                                                                                                No research needed.

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                                                                                                  Originally posted by Solksjaer! View Post

                                                                                                  I think we all know that they are ALL true baddies including the US

                                                                                                  No research needed.

                                                                                                  * we


                                                                                                  Like we're using our wealth to give vaccines to 20-year-olds so they can go to nightclubs, while 90-year-olds in Namibia die excruciatingly from lack of vaccine. We fundamentally don't care. And maybe there's nothing wrong with that. It just means we have no moral right to point to other countries and exclaim 'why are you not doing things the way we are doing things, we're great'.
                                                                                                  "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

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                                                                                                    Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post


                                                                                                    * we


                                                                                                    Like we're using our wealth to give vaccines to 20-year-olds so they can go to nightclubs, while 90-year-olds in Namibia die excruciatingly from lack of vaccine. We fundamentally don't care. And maybe there's nothing wrong with that. It just means we have no moral right to point to other countries and exclaim 'why are you not doing things the way we are doing things, we're great'.
                                                                                                    . Is the reason young adults are given vaccines to go to nite clubs ? Seriously not for the greater good of the community. Think niteclubs have had there day regardless especially in rural Ireland. Youngsters get a heap of cabs naggins drink maybe go to a disco then back to a house party. Pretending you care about some 90 year old bush man in the Kalahari is laughable.

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                                                                                                      Originally posted by Solksjaer! View Post
                                                                                                      Note to self: do much research before engaging with Mellor on the following topics -> anything under the sun

                                                                                                      That's one of my main issues with debunking. Just takes too much time and I'm not the greatest researcher in the world.

                                                                                                      Have a mate who picks up wild theories every now and again cites some shite to back it up...I debunk it and he moves on to the next one. He even forgets them a month or so later and then has a shiny new one to present with authority backed up by a GP no less. I dont bother anymore so now apparently I'm close minded.

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                                                                                                        Originally posted by Sickpuppy View Post
                                                                                                        . Is the reason young adults are given vaccines to go to nite clubs ? Seriously not for the greater good of the community. Think niteclubs have had there day regardless especially in rural Ireland. Youngsters get a heap of cabs naggins drink maybe go to a disco then back to a house party. Pretending you care about some 90 year old bush man in the Kalahari is laughable.
                                                                                                        Down my way we've traditionally had three nightlcubs locally and sometimes a 4th. It's down to only two at the moment. The third one shut before the pandemic. There's definitely been a change over the last 5 years or so, trending completely away from nightclubs. I recall rocking up to a nightclub and having to queue for 20+ mins to get in when I was 18. Sometimes the bouncer would turn someone in your group away for "reasons lol". Mostly some gossin would be wrote off. I can't remember the last time I ever had to queue more than 5 mins to get in somewhere.

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                                                                                                          Thanks Mellor, that's a decent response and genuinely something I was hoping for, as can then maybe reconsider some positions I have. Thanks for taking the time to construct that response.

                                                                                                          Again, getting a bit exhausting making this point, but obviously I dont believe it's some cartel of evil communicating and plotting.

                                                                                                          I believe that when a real and dangerous virus become a thing, some of the reactions to that are driven more by economic opportunism and greed, windows of opportunity for governments to take more control and power.

                                                                                                          Would have welcomed your response to the dude who was involved in MRA vaccine development having concerns and being censored or in general the vast censorship of lots of voices. I dont think they are all crackpots.

                                                                                                          It's just simply not black or white.

                                                                                                          Lastly No I dont believe the figures from Timbuktoo anymore than I do from any country in the world.

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                                                                                                            Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                                                                                                            I would politely suggest that believing you live in some US-centric nirvana that can morally lead the world, while also believing there are a collection of true baddies out there (China now, Russia before that, Muslims a few years ago, Japanese two decades ago, Soviets and 'commies' before that, Jews before that) that you are superior to, is as bad as believing in a lot of these conspiracy theories.
                                                                                                            Can you set up an online Declaration that Prof Hugh Jass can sign to this effect?

                                                                                                            You're nothing these days without a Declaration.
                                                                                                            "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

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                                                                                                              Got my paper covid cert in the post today. Wasn't sure if they had my email or not, as I didn't have to register myself.
                                                                                                              Gone full 'Glinner' since June 2022.

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                                                                                                                Originally posted by Gimmeabreak
                                                                                                                He is, beyond any doubt, a snake oil salesman.
                                                                                                                I thought he only sold sheep organ pills https://www.xtend-life.com/products/organ-ultra
                                                                                                                Gone full 'Glinner' since June 2022.

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                                                                                                                  Originally posted by Gimmeabreak
                                                                                                                  Also, I understand your early frustration at comments by people on here however, lols of exasperation are to be expected at the mere mention of Ivor Cummins, particularly from a community like this which given our proclivity towards rational fact based thinking. He is, beyond any doubt, a snake oil salesman.
                                                                                                                  It elicited the same reaction from me as naming 'Marjorie Taylor-Greene' or 'Ben Gilroy' (for example), as a source worth listening to on anything.

                                                                                                                  Literally zero credibility.
                                                                                                                  "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

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                                                                                                                    Originally posted by dinekes View Post

                                                                                                                    That's one of my main issues with debunking. Just takes too much time and I'm not the greatest researcher in the world.
                                                                                                                    To be honest, where somebody tries back it with science and provides pseudo-references it's pretty easy. Most of the above was simply reading the references provided and highlight that they don't say what they are being presented as. I've a a couple of similar discussions on the other place so some of it I had heard before. Such as the Tanzania covid denying president dying from covid. There's no solace to be taken from anyones death. The irony is tragic.

                                                                                                                    Originally posted by jbravado View Post
                                                                                                                    Thanks Mellor, that's a decent response and genuinely something I was hoping for, as can then maybe reconsider some positions I have. Thanks for taking the time to construct that response.

                                                                                                                    ...

                                                                                                                    Would have welcomed your response to the dude who was involved in MRA vaccine development having concerns and being censored or in general the vast censorship of lots of voices. I dont think they are all crackpots.

                                                                                                                    It's just simply not black or white.

                                                                                                                    Lastly No I dont believe the figures from Timbuktoo anymore than I do from any country in the world.
                                                                                                                    No problem. You asked to consider it, felt that was a reasonable request rather than dismissing it holistically.
                                                                                                                    As he got a little tinfoil hatty towards the end I probably generalised a little rather than going point by point. The RNA guy was lost to that. I have heard that reference before, but wanted to find the source of the common rather than the many references to it. It feels like something that is beign taken out of context, but prehaps not. The vaccines are absolutely being fast-tracked, for good reasons. I understand that the author doesn't necessarily represent your view. I think I might had said "you" a few times when I meant "him".

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                                                                                                                      Originally posted by jbravado View Post

                                                                                                                      You don't think it raises ANY valid concerns?

                                                                                                                      Did you read it? Did you read and think, that's a reasonable and unusual point? And following that prod round to decipher if it has grounding in truth. Is it likely you read it from a state of this is my opinion and even then questioning of opinions I'm emotionally entwined with is triggering?

                                                                                                                      You think the parts regarding poverty are a load of bollocks? I'd be astonished if you spent more thanntwo minutes reading it. And there in lies the rub, and IMO why we are a such dangerous point in polarity.
                                                                                                                      Regardless, fairly obnoxious reply.
                                                                                                                      I read it dude.
                                                                                                                      Sadly it's full of falsehoods and false characterization of the likes of Malone.
                                                                                                                      He uses his very debatable claim on Inventor of MRNA Vaccines (Karikó is most cited as that person) as a launchpad for fear mongering on the efficiency and danger of vaccines.
                                                                                                                      Yer man Ayyadurai "the inventor of email" earlier in the pandemic did a similar trick
                                                                                                                      The censorship angle is always, nearly ALWAYS associated with cranks. You are clever enough to realise this.

                                                                                                                      Ivermectin is interesting, the problem is the trials aren't done to standard and the ones that are have a much smaller base that necessary to draw accurate conclusions


                                                                                                                      The fact that further trails are planned (oxford) is a good thing and I'm willing to change my opinion based on results.

                                                                                                                      The Mullis claims is complete arse and the fact he died before covid was identified is 100% as your document states, "inconvenient"
                                                                                                                      Posts on social media have wrongly claimed that PCR testing is inaccurate and produces a high rate of false positive results.


                                                                                                                      The Fauci mask thing is another red herring. Masks not as effective if people keep messing with them on their face is not the same as mask are ineffective.
                                                                                                                      And like everything in the world, recommendations change as more information becomes available.

                                                                                                                      The problem I have with documents such as these as it pulls a lot of unconnected threads and ties them together in a vaguely sinister men behind the curtain conspiracy
                                                                                                                      in an attempt to do nothing more than instil fear and distrust.

                                                                                                                      I remember talking to you when this whole thing started and I was struck by the level of worry you had about covid. It would seem that you have rubber banded completely on this in an attempt to distance yourself from the feelings you had at the start.

                                                                                                                      I'm not in any way versed enough to say the above with any sense of authority but it is something that has being in the back of my mind for a few weeks now. I categorically mean no offense either.
                                                                                                                      People say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
                                                                                                                      Get a shiny metal Revolut card! And a free tenner!
                                                                                                                      https://revolut.com/referral/jamesb8!G10D21

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                                                                                                                        Hmm Mellor done that much better than I
                                                                                                                        People say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
                                                                                                                        Get a shiny metal Revolut card! And a free tenner!
                                                                                                                        https://revolut.com/referral/jamesb8!G10D21

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                                                                                                                          The new Boards site is slick no? Bar the downtime. Why was/is there so much crying?

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