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    A good bubble defies logic or reason. Generally fueled by FOMO and good old fashioned irrational greed. That fact that we have two camps arguing the pros and cons of investing in Crypto is testimony to that.

    If you are not looking at a market, that regularly has 5% swings in a day, you should be buying prize bonds.
    Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

    Comment


      Originally posted by ComradeCollie View Post


      I don't think that's the clever use of malapropism that Shatter think it is.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post
        David Fincher gets Joker
        He correct, in that it's a huge jump from the source material. But it's a fairly common and obvious comparison. The whole talk-show segment is basically an homage to The King of Comedy. De Niro being cast as the host sort of completes the three-way connection.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post

          For 2 & 3, Bitcoin is a super performing asset, not the end of the entire traditional banking system. 1 has already been answered several times.
          So you only see BTC as a punt? Fair enough.
          "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

          Comment


            ...
            "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

            Comment


              ...
              "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

              Comment


                Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

                They are just silly questions. Not least as there's no answer that wouldn't involve an addendum to the answer of - "so it has loads of potential to grow"
                Does it have the potential to grow? In order for it to become any sort of reserve currency, it would have to have CB support, which will never happen. It fundamentally can't. If it's just meant to be small alternative asset then fair enough, but it will only be a fraction of the gold market.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                  But of course all the winners are on the AIB train. A captive market with a million gullible customers who will never switch. Whats not to love.
                  They are about to break ground on a core banking transformation project - the last one attempted in Ireland was in BOI which cost 6bn or so and ended up with the release of a broken app and everything else being shelved/rolled back to its previous state, the firing of the CEO and overall an unimaginably shitshow.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Denny Crane View Post

                    Does it have the potential to grow? In order for it to become any sort of reserve currency, it would have to have CB support, which will never happen. It fundamentally can't. If it's just meant to be small alternative asset then fair enough, but it will only be a fraction of the gold market.
                    None of your assumptions are true

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post

                      So you only see BTC as a punt? Fair enough.
                      Isn't everything?

                      Comment


                        The main mistake displayed this morning here is timing, whatever happens with BTC will take a lot of time. It took a long time to build the infrastructure and awareness for institutions to hold BTC. That's there now, in a much greater way than in 2017, which is fuelling the current run-up in price. There is so much buy pressure on the price it's very difficult to see it going down for a long time. As for Central banks supporting them or using them, except for extreme outliers like Iran that is a long way off, things like that will take years & years, and involves people dying or stepping down.

                        Next year there will probably be a Bitcoin ETF and Paypal plan to allow people to use crypto to pay vendors (the vendors receive their local currency as normal) both of which will further increase it's use.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post

                          None of your assumptions are true
                          What assumptions? And why?

                          As for Central banks supporting them or using them, except for extreme outliers like Iran that is a long way off, things like that will take years & years, and involves people dying or stepping down.
                          Needs the entire history of how monetary and economic systems work to be upended. CBs and Govs will never give up control of their currency to something like bitcoin.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Denny Crane View Post

                            What assumptions? And why?
                            The things you state as self-evident "facts".

                            Originally posted by Denny Crane View Post
                            Needs the entire history of how monetary and economic systems work to be upended. CBs and Govs will never give up control of their currency to something like bitcoin.
                            The monetary system is relatively new, and is working in a strange and unprecedented way's already - so again your assumptions are incorrect. If you told a central banker years ago about negative interest rates years ago they would have laughed at you.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post
                              The monetary system is relatively new
                              WHAT???

                              Depending on how you look at it there's been a monetary system of some sort for more than 2,000 years. Even if you limit it to fiat currency then you're talking somewhere between 500 to 1,300 years old.

                              You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
                              World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post
                                The things you state as self-evident "facts".
                                Why?

                                Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post
                                The monetary system is relatively new, and is working in a strange and unprecedented way's already - so again your assumptions are incorrect. If you told a central banker years ago about negative interest rates years ago they would have laughed at you.
                                Interests rates going negative is very different to changing reserve currency or moving away from fiat. Don't think you're thinking broadly enough about this. Type 1 money isn't a new concept, countries have gone through cycles of Type 1/type 2/type 3 money all the time. Going to a type 1 currency that's not domestically controlled would upend the economic system of a major country. You can look back over thousands of years of history to see how this all works.

                                How do you handle a financial crisis with type 1 money that you don't control? Central banks aren't going to give up the ability to deflate debt in times of crisis.

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by Kayroo View Post

                                  WHAT???

                                  Depending on how you look at it there's been a monetary system of some sort for more than 2,000 years. Even if you limit it to fiat currency then you're talking somewhere between 500 to 1,300 years old.
                                  There has been a monetary system for a long time of course, but it changed dramatically after WW2.


                                  "The Bretton Woods agreement of 1944 established a new global monetary system."

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by Denny Crane View Post
                                    Why?

                                    Interests rates going negative is very different to changing reserve currency or moving away from fiat. Don't think you're thinking broadly enough about this. Type 1 money isn't a new concept, countries have gone through cycles of Type 1/type 2/type 3 money all the time. Going to a type 1 currency that's not domestically controlled would upend the economic system of a major country. You can look back over thousands of years of history to see how this all works.

                                    How do you handle a financial crisis with type 1 money that you don't control? Central banks aren't going to give up the ability to deflate debt in times of crisis.
                                    I don't think you are reading what I'm writing, because you aren't actually discussing the point at hand or anything I've mentioned. In fact, you seem to be explicitly ignoring the actual points I've made. The point you are pushing is ridiculous, and not something that is pertinent.

                                    In any case, I've learnt that BBV is an almost uniquely bad avenue for any sort of in-depth discussion, it just ends up bad-tempered, with people talking at cross purposes all arguing different points. I'd be happy to debate someone on a single point of discussion in a separate thread

                                    Comment


                                      Huh? I keep asking why and you just keep trying me I'm wrong.

                                      I posted questions about it the other day cause I'm trying to understand it better.

                                      Comment


                                        That is indeed very different than the system that was asset backed, 20% of all existing USD was printed this year alone..apparently.

                                        Comment


                                          ...
                                          "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                          Comment


                                            ...
                                            "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                            Comment


                                              ...
                                              "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                              Comment


                                                Originally posted by Denny Crane View Post

                                                I posted questions about it the other day cause I'm trying to understand it better.
                                                I didn't see your questions from a few days ago until now.

                                                They are some pretty interesting questions - none of which have an easy or simple answer, except for the last one. I'll try to answer them to the best of my ability later.

                                                Comment


                                                  Feels like HJ went on some kind of sales course and really drank the Kool Aid thereof.
                                                  "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                                                  Comment


                                                    ...
                                                    "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                                    Comment


                                                      The bitcoin spam traffic has increased lately. Its everywhere .
                                                      at least the penis enlargement guys have a new job .

                                                      Comment


                                                        Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
                                                        Feels like HJ went on some kind of sales course and really drank the Kool Aid thereof.
                                                        giphy.gif

                                                        Comment


                                                          Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

                                                          Until they come up with a system that has 2/3% annual inflation in the currency issue then it can't be a global reserve currency. So bitcoin can never be that.
                                                          This could be done with a couple of lines of code. Anyway, the issue isn't anywhere as simple as you are making it out to be. Nobody knows what the future will hold. I read a great quote by Tyler Cowen recently “Every era’s monetary institutions are virtually unimaginable until they are created.”

                                                          Comment


                                                            Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post

                                                            There has been a monetary system for a long time of course, but it changed dramatically after WW2.


                                                            "The Bretton Woods agreement of 1944 established a new global monetary system."

                                                            https://www.thebalance.com/bretton-w...eement-3306133
                                                            From the same link.

                                                            In 1971, Nixon unhooked the value of the dollar from gold altogether. Without price controls, gold quickly shot up to $120 per ounce in the free market, ending the Bretton Woods system
                                                            A new system was created after WW2. But it collapsed in less than 30 years.
                                                            Not really following the leap from their to justifying the punt.

                                                            Comment


                                                              Originally posted by Mellor View Post

                                                              A new system was created after WW2. But it collapsed in less than 30 years.
                                                              Not really following the leap from their to justifying the punt.
                                                              3 years later the US managed to guarantee the US Dollar as the global trade currency in oil. So the expanding oil consumption underpins the strength of the dollar and the US is compelled to print dollars to meet the demand. Things change in those terms regularly enough but not on the scale HJ is talking about, albeit i'll defer to experts in economics on that one. From a purely historical perspective there's only been a half dozen major changes in monetary systems in the West in the Common Era. Usually is tied to a change in hierarchical structures within society generally. Roman Empire had one, then when it fell away the West had feudalism and so on.
                                                              You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
                                                              World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011

                                                              Comment


                                                                Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

                                                                AIB *seem* to be more tech competent. But yeah, I've no idea. Denny was saying on twitter that they now have a 100-strong team of data scientists, which strikes me as quite progressive and means they've probably at least considered their data mapping, data constraints.
                                                                They definitely are - they have spent a few years completely training all their staff in Scrum Agile, building proper teams and reporting structures that include accountability.

                                                                BOI on the other hand just hired some consultancy's and a load of contractors while hoping for the best on a transformation project that nobody was really responsible for. It was very much setup to fail in hindsight while AIB is setup to succeed.

                                                                Comment


                                                                  ...
                                                                  "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

                                                                    All Bretton did was establish the US dollar as a global reserve currency
                                                                    What about the world bank? The IMF?

                                                                    Also, something for you to ponder. What would happen if the gold mines dried up?


                                                                    Comment


                                                                      Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post
                                                                      As I've mentioned a few times, this price rise is fueled by institutional money that isn't going to stop anytime soon. https://decrypt.co/48277/grayscale-b...aise-week-ever.

                                                                      I was very surprised at the lack of awareness of crypto the last time it came in earnest, it seemed like a lot of people had formed opinions that were many years out of date.
                                                                      Thats an advertorial if ever I saw one tho.

                                                                      Lots of funds and investors will invest in crypto because its going to increase in value or at least is very volatile and widely traded by regular joes which means that with their better algorithms, faster networks and better ability to predict they will have a big edge over me on my app.

                                                                      I dont think that fund managers really care if crypto has any real world use or longevity but they will push money into advertising it so that it appears to be and it rises. Capitalism 101 imo.

                                                                      I know that is probably very cynical but most of what I know about crypto has come from some lads from Consensys second hand but they didn't see crypto as a top ten use for the Blockchain even if it was funding their business. They are also far smarter than me and did so much more research into it.

                                                                      Comment


                                                                        @Hitch - you are the board game master, yes? Can you recommend a couple for a family with psychopathic tendencies and a low boredom threshold pls?
                                                                        "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          I'm not taking advice from any forum that advised you'd be mad to buy Tesla promptly before it went up 1000%

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post

                                                                            This could be done with a couple of lines of code. Anyway, the issue isn't anywhere as simple as you are making it out to be. Nobody knows what the future will hold. I read a great quote by Tyler Cowen recently “Every era’s monetary institutions are virtually unimaginable until they are created.”
                                                                            I thought one of the selling points of bitcoin was that it was a limited supply? That's fundamentally opposed to any sort of functioning system.

                                                                            Also, something for you to ponder. What would happen if the gold mines dried up?
                                                                            The amount of gold that makes it into reserves from mining is a rounding error.

                                                                            Last edited by Denny Crane; 17-11-20, 17:22.

                                                                            Comment


                                                                              Originally posted by Denny Crane View Post

                                                                              I thought one of the selling points of bitcoin was that it was a limited supply? That's fundamentally opposed to any sort of functioning system.



                                                                              The amount of gold that makes it into reserves from mining is a rounding error.
                                                                              Each bitcoin can be broken down into one-hundred-million satoshis.
                                                                              Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

                                                                              Comment


                                                                                Originally posted by Denny Crane View Post


                                                                                The amount of gold that makes it into reserves from mining is a rounding error.
                                                                                Wow.

                                                                                I really am surprised by this, maybe I shouldn't be.
                                                                                I actually don't understand how you couldn't know this, but also how could you not know this, but simultaneously believe that it's important for there not to be a limited supply of a reserve asset.




                                                                                How much gold has been mined?

                                                                                The best estimates currently available suggest that around 197,576 tonnes of gold has been mined throughout history


                                                                                Each year, global gold mining adds approximately 2,500-3,000 tonnes to the overall above-ground stock of gold. (That's about 1.5% That's a big rounding error. )

                                                                                https://www.gold.org/about-gold/gold...coming%20years.



                                                                                In 2019 Gold mine production totalled 3,531 tonnes in 2019, 1% lower than in 2018, according to the World Gold Council. This is the first annual decline in production since 2008.

                                                                                https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21...%20each%20side.



                                                                                Last edited by Hectorjelly; 17-11-20, 17:49.

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                  Originally posted by Denny Crane
                                                                                  The amount of gold that makes it into reserves from mining is a rounding error.
                                                                                  .

                                                                                  most mined gold goes into jewellery and industry.

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                    Wish I had some gold.
                                                                                    Dont even have 2 Satoshis to rub together.

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                      I really love the mystery around who the bitcoin founder is.
                                                                                      Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                        Originally posted by Wombatman View Post
                                                                                        I really love the mystery around who the bitcoin founder is.
                                                                                        Barely Social made a very compelling case recently. 26 minutes in if you want to cut to the chase.

                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                          This is a really bizarre conversation here today. It's almost like Nixon hadn't taken the US off the gold standard fifty years ago.

                                                                                          "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                            Pretty sure the main use of gold nowadays is for adorning Indian brides.

                                                                                            "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                              Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
                                                                                              Pretty sure the main use of gold nowadays is for adorning Indian brides.
                                                                                              Yeah, I wasn't imagining it. It's a real thing.
                                                                                              "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                                BTC went up a grand while we were talking. 17.5k now.


                                                                                                Last edited by Tar.Aldarion; 17-11-20, 19:15.

                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                  Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
                                                                                                  This is a really bizarre conversation here today. It's almost like Nixon hadn't taken the US off the gold standard fifty years ago.
                                                                                                  Remember that thing that didn't work? Let's try a worse version of it

                                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                                    Ah Black Friday, sad watching grown adults jizzing over poor quality and/or fake electronics on Amazon

                                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                                      Originally posted by Denny Crane View Post
                                                                                                      .

                                                                                                      most mined gold goes into jewellery and industry.
                                                                                                      Sorry, I missed the crucial word

                                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                                        Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
                                                                                                        Pretty sure the main use of gold nowadays is for adorning Indian brides.
                                                                                                        frankincense and myrrh never really took off to the same effect.

                                                                                                        Broke a nail today on a rubik's cube fk you HH .

                                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                                          Originally posted by PSV58 View Post
                                                                                                          Ah Black Friday, sad watching grown adults jizzing over poor quality and/or fake electronics on Amazon
                                                                                                          Stop watching adults Jizzing. IMO

                                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                                            Nothing like Curb Your Enthusiasm's I'm going to fuck the Jew out of you episode to brighten up a dismal day
                                                                                                            Turning millions into thousands

                                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                                              someone going to jail here for stealing btc https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/...t-1037701.html

                                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                                                Originally posted by Tar.Aldarion View Post
                                                                                                                someone going to jail here for stealing btc https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/...t-1037701.html
                                                                                                                I read about that Seth Shapiro guy ages ago. Click a mouse lose a house.

                                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                                  Yozzer Hughes never left the playground. 'Whats there to grow up for?'
                                                                                                                  Class
                                                                                                                  Turning millions into thousands

                                                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                                                    Originally posted by ArmaniJeans View Post
                                                                                                                    Alan Bleasdale's 'The Black Stuff' is the Play for Today showing on BBC4 on Tuesday evening - one of the best.
                                                                                                                    I really enjoyed that, thanks.

                                                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                                                      Gone full 'Glinner' since June 2022.

                                                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                                                        If anyone is interested in the history of money, there is a good read by that name:
                                                                                                                        https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...story_of_Money

                                                                                                                        *It's been a few years but I believe currency as we know it originated in Lydia.
                                                                                                                        Last edited by Guest; 18-11-20, 08:23.

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                                                                                                                          ...
                                                                                                                          "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

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