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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
He should be gone. And so should Seamus Woulfe.
Frank Clark will sort out Woulfe tomorrow and Phil will disappear into the mist like Willie walking up Lug.
There is a strong case for saying Phil is external and is in a similar position to the Moroccan ambassador, Hayes and other of the has beens and non entities that were there.
Turning millions into thousands
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View PostSeems odd for a minor country to be firing the number two guy in Europe. As in, his role seems bigger than Irish politics at this stage. Bit of a shame too for Europe as he's clearly highly accomplished at what he does. And to think if he'd had a nice luxury break just about anywhere else in Europe he'd be fine, instead what did him in was sitting in a cold banqueting room chatting away to other old fellas about golf.
I'm not even sure if the government can sack him. Seems like shaming him into doing the decent thing ain't working.
"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Research tells me:
A European Commissioner cannot be removed from office by the member-state that nominated him or her.
A commissioner can be dismissed only by the European Court of Justice acting on a request from either the member-states as a whole, acting through the Council of Ministers, or the full Commission.
Tried getting hold of my Commission friend to get the inside scoop but his wife is rather selfishly in hospital having a baby.
"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Opr View Post
I thought the new Perry Mason was much better than very poor ratings it got.
Turning millions into thousands
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Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post
Shouldn't be my cuppa tea at all but I really enjoyed it, not sure it will stand up to episodes being released once a week, feels like its made for a binge.
I thought the new Perry Mason was much better than very poor ratings it got.
Didn't think LC would be my thing either but it all blended really well together into a fantastic mix of madness.
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Originally posted by BennyHiFi View Post
This is very good in fairness.
Your music is more like an experience than listening to a song, which is a good thing.Last edited by Tar.Aldarion; 23-08-20, 20:28.
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Originally posted by Opr View PostFlew in to and out of Kerry over the weekend. If the Airports were this quiet all the time, flying would be a dream especially flights that like that within Ireland.
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View PostResearch tells me:
So Big Phil certainly can stick two fingers up to his Government who have asked him to quit. You would imagine he certainly has the balls to go down that road.
Tried getting hold of my Commission friend to get the inside scoop but his wife is rather selfishly in hospital having a baby.
Will probably have the cheek to throw his hat into future presidential races, arent we really some bunch of clowns.
To the people that say let him be, wouldn't it be worse if some Estonian lad was leading the Brexit discussions...really ? Parish pump politics at its best, Europe should look after Ireland in trade discussions, not an Irish man in europe.
The same people laugh at the Healy Raes, same way Europe will be laughing at us for not demanding he resign...sure, didnt he fix the roads!
Nothing changes, once the heads get in the troughs...This too shall pass.
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Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post
Shouldn't be my cuppa tea at all but I really enjoyed it, not sure it will stand up to episodes being released once a week, feels like its made for a binge.
I thought the new Perry Mason was much better than very poor ratings it got.This too shall pass.
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
I don't know about this at all. He's a European Union trade commissioner. What has that got to do in the slightest with obeying a particular countries corona laws? Loads of people break laws all the time and we don't go around demanding that they lose their jobs as a result. In this case its a minor civil breach that has literally nothing to do with his job. He's not even an elected politician, or even someone employed or resident in Ireland. Maybe the issue is really that everyone is overreacting wanting to get on the cancel culture express train.
You hold yourself to a higher standard as an elected official, thems the rules.
Cancel culture express train ? No overreaction on my part. The only argument i ahve seen not for him to resign is the fact he is Irish, from Irish people.This too shall pass.
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Originally posted by oleras View Posta
The same people laugh at the Healy Raes, same way Europe will be laughing at us for not demanding he resign"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
I don't know about this at all. He's a European Union trade commissioner. What has that got to do in the slightest with obeying a particular countries corona laws? Loads of people break laws all the time and we don't go around demanding that they lose their jobs as a result. In this case its a minor civil breach that has literally nothing to do with his job. He's not even an elected politician, or even someone employed or resident in Ireland. Maybe the issue is really that everyone is overreacting wanting to get on the cancel culture express train.
It's precisely why he has such an important job that he must fall on his sword here. Calleary (although obviously a fuckwit) grasped this straight away.
Otherwise you are into Dominic Cummings territory, which destroys any semblance of social covid cohesion and inevitably leads to 'well if those lads aren't obeying the rules, I'm just going to do whatever I feel like'. I must look back and see all your posts in favour of Boris and Cummings...."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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I can absolutely see why we would want Hogan to stay in his job from a political perspective.
But Mehole and Leo have in my view, correctly weighed that up against the societal factors and come down on the right side of telling him he must quit.
Boris did the same political calculus with Cummings and came down on the wrong side.
It really is as simple as the fact that leaders must lead by example, and if they can't do that, then they are not fit to lead and should be dispensed with. Especially in a time of crisis. When they fail in this regard, they send a very clear and very bad message to the population.
Now it's over to VDL (who must surely be wondering WTF she did to deserve this steaming pile of shite being dumped in her lap) to tell Big Phil the political facts of life. Would be fun to be a fly on the wall at that one.Last edited by Raoul Duke III; 24-08-20, 08:36."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by ComradeCollie View PostReally thought the phrase was 'baying for something'."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View PostThere's a top UK doctor saying what Stephen Donnolly said last week.
if you get seasonal flu you have an enormous chance of just shaking it off, as does most of your family including any elderly or immuno-compromised members.
with Covid..we don’t know. The initial diagnosis is dangerous for everyone including children, less so than elderly but still dangerous. The medium term effects are unknown but there are growing reports of medium term lung damage and neural impacts. The long term effects nobody has a clue about because we don’t have enough information.
we are effectively betting that this hitherto unknown disease that has ravaged a population won’t have any real medium or long-term effects on people so lets just suck it up and see what happens.
an acquaintance of mine, otherwise healthy guy in his 30’s went from being fine, to having covid to recovering and being told that the lung damage he suffered has left him with a maximum 3-5 year life expectancy. That shit doesn’t happen with the common flu.
Schools in Berlin are back two weeks and there have already been infections in 4% of schools. Sure, they might shake them off but what about the longer term?
now I get that there are other economic and developmental factors that need to be taken into account but playing down the potential health impact of covid is very premature at this stage imo.
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
It is. Perhaps Hitch has Wicklow Derangement Syndrome given his new-found proximity to the Garden of Ireland. Would explain his take on this matter.Gone full 'Glinner' since June 2022.
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On the other hand, here’s an interview with a Spanish doctor who is saying that the current ‘crisis’ isn’t really a crisis at all. Hilarious to see the interviewer try toforce an agenda but the doc having none of it
the truth is that we just don’t know and as usual people at both extremes are probably wrong but if in doubt land on the sid eof protecting healthLast edited by Iago; 24-08-20, 09:06.
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
I'd say she deals with these types of requests every few months when one of the 27 countries changes government. She might deign to use the more important countries requests as morning relief toilet paper, but I wouldn't say the smaller countries even get the honour of being used as royal loo roll. And she especially won't pay any attention to it when she hears the circumstances except to maybe whack the fool that wasted her time approaching her with a non-problem.
or else the words 'we're all in this together' mean exactly the opposite of their common English usage"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
I get that your principle is that we should take away people's livelihoods because of what could easily be a mistake where you assume that everything has been checked by other people, I just don't agree with it.
Just last week the same dumbassery canceled Michael Cawley from Failte Ireland for going on holidays to an allowed green list country, when he was only taking on the chairmanship in the first place as a charity gig to give something back to the country. He notably resigned within a split second of the story so keen was he not to waste another moment helping out stupid people.
Carry on. You'll be going in to bat for Trump next."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View PostI can absolutely see why we would want Hogan to stay in his job from a political perspective.
But Mehole and Leo have in my view, correctly weighed that up against the societal factors and come down on the right side of telling him he must quit.
Boris did the same political calculus with Cummings and came down on the wrong side.
It really is as simple as the fact that leaders must lead by example, and if they can't do that, then they are not fit to lead and should be dispensed with. Especially in a time of crisis. When they fail in this regard, they send a very clear and very bad message to the population.
Now it's over to VDL (who must surely be wondering WTF she did to deserve this steaming pile of shite being dumped in her lap) to tell Big Phil the political facts of life. Would be fun to be a fly on the wall at that one.
I agree with the Cummings comparison is valid but IMO in a scale of taking the piss with regulations both in the spirit and rule I'd rate Cummings at 8, Mary Lou at 6 and Phil at 3 .
Significant heads have rolled, liveline will seethe for another week but already some good has come out of it in that there is a renewed focus on toeing the line now.
Turning millions into thousands
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
That is exactly what Mehole and Leo have done; that's what 'he should consider his position' means. (i.e. we have lost all confidence in you, now do the decent thing and quit of your own volition)
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Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post
Well put, but unless we get to parachute someone of the stature of Leo or Simon into the job we should just suck it up. As you say its up to Ursula now and maybe she will want to send a strong message but despite the constant calls from local parish pumpers all over Europe to fire their local competitor over the scandal du jour the only one who was ever fired was the Maltese guy who was caught taking kickbacks from the tobacco industry.
Originally posted by Strewelpeter View PostI agree with the Cummings comparison is valid but IMO in a scale of taking the piss with regulations both in the spirit and rule I'd rate Cummings at 8, Mary Lou at 6 and Phil at 3 .
If it was right for Calleary and Buttimer to quit (it was), then it's equally right for Woulfe and Hogan.
Sometimes in politics, events and momentum take over, then you're sitting in your kitchen wondering where your career went. Ask Alan Shatter.
Originally posted by Strewelpeter View PostSignificant heads have rolled, liveline will seethe for another week but already some good has come out of it in that there is a renewed focus on toeing the line now.
Until this is fully and comprehensively dealt with, then it will linger over the public health regs like a bad smell. Any knacker strolling around their local Spar without a mask would be semi- justifiably empowered to say if it's good enough for the big boys to break the regs, then it's good enough for me.
It's that simple.
"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post
So the Trump fellow travellers are clinging desperately to the notion that that was not a personal attack at one individual but that he was mimicking spasticity as a comic reference to indicate stupidity
Think about that for a minute and come back to me on how you think that makes it any more excusable? And when your at it you once said here that you believed that he wasn't at all racist, I think the phrase was the least racist ever, do you still believe that?
Look how the association worked, the headline is Trump mocks disabled reporter, people make that association in their head, assume the disability and assume that that's what Trump was mocking. I'd imagine no one assumed that he had arthrogryposis. Take away the reporter, and the association stays, in people's heads he was mocking cerebral palsy. Trump certainly isn't doing himself any favours, but I think his motives and intentions are far less vindictive and dark than you're assuming. I think it's just another McGuirk effect, your priors determine your interpretation of the event far more than the actual event does.
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Originally posted by mcnugget View Post
I believe this is a misreading of the reality. Micheal has had several opportunities to declare he has lost confidence in Phil and has turned down each one, including when asked directly by Claire Byrne within the last hour whether he retained confidence in him. If the Taoiseach and Tanaiste issued a statement declaring they have lost confidence in him and urge him to resign he would be gone within the hour.
Taoiseach Micheál Martin and Tánaiste Leo Varadkar have asked Phil Hogan to "consider his position", heaping pressure on the EU commissioner to resign over his attendance at an Oireachtas Golf Society dinner that has outraged the nation.
In a statement to the Sunday Independent last night, a Government spokesman confirmed: "The Taoiseach and the Tánaiste did speak with the commissioner today and asked him to consider his position.
"They both believe the event should never have been held, that the commissioner's apology came late and that he still needs to give a full account and explanation of his action."
"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Iago View Post
...an acquaintance of mine, otherwise healthy guy in his 30’s went from being fine, to having covid to recovering and being told that the lung damage he suffered has left him with a maximum 3-5 year life expectancy. That shit doesn’t happen with the common flu.
now I get that there are other economic and developmental factors that need to be taken into account but playing down the potential health impact of covid is very premature at this stage imo.
Don't know a single person in Ireland to have gotten it but from the knowledge I have of it from a bit of distance, it's definitely something to be very wary of, no matter your age, as you rightly point out we just don't know enough about it.
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Originally posted by ionapaul View Post
I may have mentioned it before, but three of my colleagues based in Toronto contracted COVID in May, two shook it off quickly enough, but one of them (I believe wasn't the fittest maybe and is a smoker), in his early 30s I'd guess, is still completely floored by the aftermath of it. As in, unable to work and is in and out of hospital.
Don't know a single person in Ireland to have gotten it but from the knowledge I have of it from a bit of distance, it's definitely something to be very wary of, no matter your age, as you rightly point out we just don't know enough about it."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Sent an email to MM re golfgate and leadership.(not that it will be read)
Outlined that it shows either almost criminal levels of poor judgement or contempt for the rules for a public servant to attend such a function and how that is being perceived by the public these so called leaders are supposed to serve. One look at the seating arrangements should have raised an alarm bell if not for the fact that it would be unsafe but at least for political self preservation.
It should be a top priority for all public servants to be cognizant of the rules regarding Covid at all times and to be seen to be obeying these rules to serve as a good example to the public.
Reminded him that he is a public servant and that we require leadership in these difficult times. Queried would he have the resolve and determination to make the difficult decisions of making people resign.
Clusterfuck.
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
You've just made me realise that eoghan104 hasn't been seen here since his Cheltenham covid episode. Anyone know if he is OK?People say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
Get a shiny metal Revolut card! And a free tenner!
https://revolut.com/referral/jamesb8!G10D21
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Originally posted by dinekes View PostSent an email to MM re golfgate and leadership.(not that it will be read)
Outlined that it shows either almost criminal levels of poor judgement or contempt for the rules for a public servant to attend such a function and how that is being perceived by the public these so called leaders are supposed to serve. One look at the seating arrangements should have raised an alarm bell if not for the fact that it would be unsafe but at least for political self preservation.
It should be a top priority for all public servants to be cognizant of the rules regarding Covid at all times and to be seen to be obeying these rules to serve as a good example to the public.
Reminded him that he is a public servant and that we require leadership in these difficult times. Queried would he have the resolve and determination to make the difficult decisions of making people resign.
Clusterfuck.
People say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
Get a shiny metal Revolut card! And a free tenner!
https://revolut.com/referral/jamesb8!G10D21
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
If you turn up at a hotel function and your thought is 'hmm, I didn't think this was allowed at all', your second thought, guaranteed, is 'oh well I presume someone has checked and its fine'. You don't walk into a room with 90 people seated and 20 waiters hired and think "you're all making a terrible mistake" and then turn tail and leave. Thats just not how we work as social animals. No one, literally no-one, would be like that.
Gone full 'Glinner' since June 2022.
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
I think he's a retired person who has a lot more time on his hands to think about these things. I'd imagine Big Phil is a wee bit busier and less able to think through every little decision he makes.
That story doesn't quite hold up either, which is probably why it was all anonymous sources. Presumably the meal was turned down a few weeks in advance of the event when the invites were sent out - and he seemingly turned down the event on the knowledge of regulations that weren't yet in place at the time he turned them down. If he was really unhappy with it for public safety (rather than, say, wanting to be back home at a reasonable hour), he would surely have expressed this to the organisers when he was invited.
You would imagine the ability to think through decisions is a core skill for someone in his role
He has shown an amazing lack of judgment at every stage in this debacle and more than a passing imitation of this guy
People say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
Get a shiny metal Revolut card! And a free tenner!
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
I still think you're missing the practical point here (I'm repeating myself a bit, but I really hate all this tabloidisation of society). If you turn up at a hotel function and your thought is 'hmm, I didn't think this was allowed at all', your second thought, guaranteed, is 'oh well I presume someone has checked and its fine'. You don't walk into a room with 90 people seated and 20 waiters hired and think "you're all making a terrible mistake" and then turn tail and leave. Thats just not how we work as social animals. No one, literally no-one, would be like that. There's blame on the organiser, there's blame on the hotel, there's just simply not blame on the individual invitees. No-one is reasonably expected to wonder if every building they walk into is abiding by the safety codes and then be held responsible if the building has fucked up. So we're really talking about canceling people's livelihoods for not abiding by a standard that no-one would realistically abide by.
I think you are thinking with your Chinese commie party hat on whereby all the sheep just do as they are told without having a brain to think for themselves
Since lockdown came in in March, I have been very aware of my surroundings and have left several places, both indoor and outdoor as I felt that there was too many people there or there wasn't enough social distancing. If something doesn't feel right, go with your gut, it's a basic thing that applies to pretty much everything in life.
Big Phil is not too busy thinking of super major important things while sipping on a few drinks and eating food to be not able to realise that the whole set up there wasn't right and he shouldn't have been there - that's just a nonsensical argument.
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