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**Hectorjelly** · 29-05-20, 16:18

A fantastic exploration of a classic painting from the 19th Centuary https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...&region=footer

**Denny Crane** · 29-05-20, 17:08

Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post

Your conclusion is incorrect, and has almost nothing to do with the arguments you made before (some of which are also misleading, there are some food shortages). Nobody is saying that the internet isn't very useful.

They're saying it's not the best time to be alive? It's it's not now (at least pre covid) then when?

**Rahenyrhythm** · 29-05-20, 17:34

If I might make a slightly facetious-looking point: if one is alive, then it's always the best time to be alive. As regards kids, grandkids - they are alive when they are alive, so they live in the present, whatever way it looks.
I'm not arguing with any points previously made above, just pointing out the obvious. We can't change what's already gone - can we influence what's coming? ... Mmmmmm ... up to a point ...imho...

**Hectorjelly** · 29-05-20, 17:44

Originally posted by Denny Crane View Post

They're saying it's not the best time to be alive? It's it's not now (at least pre covid) then when?

Who are they? Do you think there is anything to be learnt from conducting an argument inside your own head based entirely on your own pre-conceived ideas of other peoples point of view?

**DeadParrot** · 29-05-20, 17:52

reposted to the white house twitter account and flagged again

**Raoul Duke III** · 29-05-20, 18:01

Originally posted by Kayroo View Post

Your logic is pretty flawed. It's unlikely any future we have will entail nobody working, or a very small number, but to extrapolate that things have always been a certain way therefore always will be that way is just wrong.

I accept I took your point up incorrectly initially.

Putting aside our pointless banter, how are things for you legal eagles currently?

Do cases continue on their merry way or have things ground to a halt?

**Denny Crane** · 29-05-20, 18:15

Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post

Who are they? Do you think there is anything to be learnt from conducting an argument inside your own head based entirely on your own pre-conceived ideas of other peoples point of view?

**hotspur** · 29-05-20, 20:13

Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post

Who are they? Do you think there is anything to be learnt from conducting an argument inside your own head based entirely on your own pre-conceived ideas of other peoples point of view?

It might help if you read the thread more carefully if you are confused about who "they" are, as nobody else is.

**Opr** · 29-05-20, 20:24

**Hitchhiker's Guide To...** · 29-05-20, 20:37

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**Lazare** · 29-05-20, 20:37

Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post

A fantastic exploration of a classic painting from the 19th Centuary https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...&region=footer

Enjoyed that a lot, cheers.

**ComradeCollie** · 29-05-20, 20:45

Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

Loving the article previews. Yowsers, Spain must be poor as anything. Irish social welfare - so the minimum income in Ireland - is twice that.

Best to keep quiet about that! Job-seekers Allowance in the UK is £74.35/week (if you're over 24), £116.80 for a couple

**Solksjaer!** · 29-05-20, 20:59

Me left knee is acting up. Rain is coming .

**Hitchhiker's Guide To...** · 29-05-20, 21:08

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**Opr** · 29-05-20, 21:31

Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

Oh the UK is horrific. Was living next to a guy on that in Preston. Just couldn't seem to find a job despite wanting to. As a condition of getting that payment he was saying he had to prove he was attending two interviews a week, which was costing him £15 a week in bus fares.

He just needs more incentive to get work. Put him on food stamps.

**Strewelpeter** · 29-05-20, 21:45

Really enjoyable episode of Jools with Hugh Laurie picking all 10/10 clips and a nice story of being there when Elvis Costello and Alan Toussaint were recording that excellent album they made together.

**Wombatman** · 29-05-20, 22:02

Work is just another name for human endeavor. It will always exist, but in varied forms and historical contexts. Humans will always eek out new challenges because they are never satisfied.
Potato picker -> lamp lighter -> telephone exchange worker -> health and safety officer, tweet moderator -> Gentle Whispering ASMR YouTuber -> Something else we haven't even though of yet . It can't stop because of what we are. The nice thing is, the 'work' seems to get ever more interesting and fulfilling, as we automate the crap tasks and move forward.

**Opr** · 29-05-20, 22:10

Originally posted by Wombatman View Post

Work is just another name for human endeavor. It will always exist, but in varied forms and historical contexts. Humans will always eek out new challenges because they are never satisfied.
Potato picker -> lamp lighter -> telephone exchange worker -> health and safety officer, tweet moderator -> Gentle Whispering ASMR YouTuber -> Something else we haven't even though of yet . It can't stop because of what we are. The nice thing is, the 'work' seems to get ever more interesting and fulfilling, as we automate the crap tasks and move forward.

The core thinking behind the lack of people working isn't because we have machines doing things for us so people won't want to work. It is that they will do all of the things we can do but better so there will be no need for us. That includes jobs we can't even think of yet.

On topic. This is very cool.

**Opr** · 29-05-20, 22:26

I was watching a youtube highlight video earlier that someone puts together of twitch highlights from the day. It struck me a few times when watching it that it must require tonnes of work. The cheeky fucker at the very end of the video today was advertising some course where he teaches how to build the machine that makes the video. He has automated, pulling the clips for each day, editing them into a video, and publishing them to youtube, and presumably, that is how it has always been done.

**Hitchhiker's Guide To...** · 29-05-20, 22:26

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**Wombatman** · 29-05-20, 22:44

Originally posted by Opr View Post

I was watching a youtube highlight video earlier that someone puts together of twitch highlights from the day. It struck me a few times when watching it that it must require tonnes of work. The cheeky fucker at the very end of the video today was advertising some course where he teaches how to build the machine that makes the video. He has automated, pulling the clips for each day, editing them into a video, and publishing them to youtube, and presumably, that is how it has always been done.

We are still a million miles away from that. When you are routinely on to customer service bots, instead of humans at the other end of the line, come back to me. This week I spoke to humans in Vodafone (fiber broadband switch from Eir), Social Welfare (update my address from 16 years ago, still on their system) and Bank of Ireland (get daughter setup on Banking 365). All of this probably could have been done online, but in wasn't an option in all cases.

**Opr** · 29-05-20, 23:09

Originally posted by Wombatman View Post

We are still a million miles away from that. When you are routinely on to customer service bots, instead of humans at the other end of the line, come back to me. This week I spoke to humans in Vodafone (fiber broadband switch from Eir), Social Welfare (update my address from 16 years ago, still on their system) and Bank of Ireland (get daughter setup on Banking 365). All of this probably could have been done online, but in wasn't an option in all cases.

Agreed that it is still a long way off but technology increases at a very rapid pace. There will be breakthroughs that are watershed moments that will cause those flood gates to open. Even in the interim between those happening, it won't be a complete collapse of the job market but just a reduction in jobs available. Fewer and fewer people will be needed to do jobs as time goes on and I don't see those being replaced as quickly as we lose them.

I think in those cases you mention in a distant future you will have a bot you can ring which understands your speak, can interact, gives responses, and make decisions. A while away yet but it will happen. I was actually wondering about something related very recently as I have been listening to quite a few audiobooks recently and it is frustrating when you look up an audiobook that isn't available. I wondered where the technology is at with getting it to read it back by a computer in a human voice. The company below is already creating artificial voices with real human emotion and feeling. The other challenge of getting an AI to understand text enough to know context and meaning is being done in a field called sentiment analysis.

Spotify to Acquire Sonantic, an AI Voice Platform — Spotify

https://www.sonantic.io/

As a leader in all things audio, Spotify is always searching for new ways to create unique experiences that our users will love. So today we’re excited to share our intention to acquire Sonantic, a dynamic AI voice platform that creates compelling, nuanced, and stunningly realistic voices from text. Listeners come to Spotify for all... Read more »

In many companies and especially government departments change will be slow but as with all things in our wonderful capitalist system at some stage for most things a company will automate away people and offer the same services or products cheaper than its competitor. They will become the dominant force. The problem is without controls and safety nets we will be left scratching our heads wondering where are all the people with jobs are to afford to keep the whole thing going. It is why I am so glad to see efforts around the UBI being made as I think these are hard questions that should be asked now rather than later. It is funny though that the UBI is probably seen by many as a socialist wet dream and all it may end up doing is widening further the gaps.

**Hitchhiker's Guide To...** · 29-05-20, 23:41

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**Denny Crane** · 30-05-20, 00:09

The nice thing is, the 'work' seems to get ever more interesting and fulfilling, as we automate the crap tasks and move forward.

Yeah I think that's a big part of it

The core thinking behind the lack of people working isn't because we have machines doing things for us so people won't want to work. It is that they will do all of the things we can do but better so there will be no need for us. That includes jobs we can't even think of yet.

We're so far from anything like that though., probably won't get anywhere near it in our lifetimes. Some ml/ai stuff is truly amazing, but it's in specific areas. Machines excel in repetitive specific areas, but human + machine >>>> machine or human.

We never got the domestic robots envisaged in the 60s, we got washing machines and dishwashers. We lost typists, and instead everyone works with computers, next stage is more and more ml getting incorporated into jobs. Humans devising and running the models and using domain experience. Something likelike how the dishwasher does the grunt work but still needs to be directed. And if we get to the stage where machines are >>> humans we'll have such abundance that the idea of jobs being a necessity goes out the window. It's not like life has lost meaning since we've ceased being subsistence farmers.

**Emmet** · 30-05-20, 00:10

People are idiots.
The algorithms are what we deserve.

Until the next variable of interest gets discovered, and we can't reduce the dimensionality anymore, and all of the models get rescored, and we discover the nuance.

But sure. Be grand.

**Guest** · 30-05-20, 00:15

Naming and shaming

Bit late but...

**Emmet** · 30-05-20, 00:23

The UK is broken. To fuck.
US too.

Fierce strange times.

**Opr** · 30-05-20, 01:10

Originally posted by Denny Crane View Post

Yeah I think that's a big part of it

We're so far from anything like that though., probably won't get anywhere near it in our lifetimes. Some ml/ai stuff is truly amazing, but it's in specific areas. Machines excel in repetitive specific areas, but human + machine >>>> machine or human.

A long way off for that yes but this idea that we need to find human-like intelligence to replace us I find fascinating. I don't know whether it is narcissism or something else I am missing. We are amazing things but when it comes to working most of it is a trivial task to a machine. The purpose of MI/AI isn't around repetitive tasks but the ability to teach a computer in a way humans learn and then having an all-purpose intelligence that can set that to any task it is asked. Same as we learn with an initial set of information and then building upon that by trial and error and analyzing past information. The difference is it can do that much faster. The nuances of humans and what makes us human are incredibly far away but the idea that the tasks that we do in work are far away from being accomplished by machine I don't agree with.

**Emmet** · 30-05-20, 01:38

**Guest** · 30-05-20, 05:46

Speaking of jobs, if/when I have kids I’d rather they end up as a pornstar (or working for kpmg) than being a thirsty attention whore one Tik Tok or other social media, the damage these platforms are doing to people’s psyches is unreal

**The C Kid** · 30-05-20, 07:02

Remote working is a far bigger threat to the jobs of the majority of people on here and in this country that anything machine learning or AI will develop in our lifetimes.

It's somewhat ironic that so many knowledge workers here are championing it and how it will improve their life, when the only advantage/USP they actually had was their ability to commute to a specific office location.

**Raoul Duke III** · 30-05-20, 07:41

Originally posted by The C Kid View Post

Remote working is a far bigger threat to the jobs of the majority of people on here and in this country that anything machine learning or AI will develop in our lifetimes.

It's somewhat ironic that so many knowledge workers here are championing it and how it will improve their life, when the only advantage/USP they actually had was their ability to commute to a specific office location.

People have been remote working for, what, 15-20 years now?

One of the most knowledgeable guys I ever worked with was a remote worker. Very smart, very helpful, lived somewhere very isolated up near the Canadian border. We're talking ~15 years ago now. One of my ex-colleagues contacted me a couple of years back with a 'remember that guy?' link to a news story. He's been busted by the ATF for amassing a vast store of weaponry and plotting assassinations, including Obama.

**Hitchhiker's Guide To...** · 30-05-20, 08:29

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**V for Vendetta** · 30-05-20, 09:09

In the queue at B&Q. A weekend of house painting awaits so no particular rush on me. Thankfully plenty of helpful typos every few yards to keep me amused.

**V for Vendetta** · 30-05-20, 09:13

We had an outdoor movie last night. Great fun but it was cold by midnight. We’re not quite the south of France....

**Solksjaer!** · 30-05-20, 09:14

I hope we return to the pursuits of excellence in arts and music . I realise is still there to a degree but there is not the same appreciation of it.

**Lazare** · 30-05-20, 09:14

@ HJ I ran a 1m time trial this morning, organised by the boards athletics forum. Ran it in 6:01, 10 secs slower than I thought I'd do it in.

Based off that I predict an 800 time of 2:46 ish

I'll be aiming to beat that anyway.

Looking forward to our duel

**Solksjaer!** · 30-05-20, 09:15

Originally posted by V for Vendetta View Post

We had an outdoor movie last night. Great fun but it was cold by midnight. We’re not quite the south of France....

I was out in a t shirt last night, Midnight . It was perfect.

**V for Vendetta** · 30-05-20, 09:18

Originally posted by The C Kid View Post

Remote working is a far bigger threat to the jobs of the majority of people on here and in this country that anything machine learning or AI will develop in our lifetimes.

It's somewhat ironic that so many knowledge workers here are championing it and how it will improve their life, when the only advantage/USP they actually had was their ability to commute to a specific office location.

Longer term you’re right. But if you’re midway through your career, have a network and a specialism protected by industry specific knowledge I think you’ll ride it out. Being an 18 year old starting a degree in a world where you’ll be competing globally with a lot of remote workers will definitely be a challenge. Still if it spreads the global wealth it could be quite good for society at large. Managing the transition is the hardest part.

**ComradeCollie** · 30-05-20, 09:19

Originally posted by V for Vendetta View Post

In the queue at B&Q. A weekend of house painting awaits so no particular rush on me. Thankfully plenty of helpful typos every few yards to keep me amused.

tenor.gif

**V for Vendetta** · 30-05-20, 09:20

Originally posted by Solksjaer! View Post

I was out in a t shirt last night, Midnight . It was perfect.

Yeah it was grand when I was moving but lying down on a bean bag watching a movie probably didn’t help!!

**Solksjaer!** · 30-05-20, 09:47

I've a great recipe for you guys willing to invest some time in preparing a solid meal. Toast 4 slices of simply both bread. Grill 10 fish fingers. Wait 12 minutes . Place 3 fish fingers on each slice add some Spiracha chilli mayo. Enjoy you are welcome.

**DeadParrot** · 30-05-20, 10:26

dystopian scenes in the US last night

**ComradeCollie** · 30-05-20, 10:26

Originally posted by Solksjaer! View Post

I've a great recipe for you guys willing to invest some time in preparing a solid meal. Toast 4 slices of simply both bread. Grill 10 fish fingers. Wait 12 minutes . Place 3 fish fingers on each slice add some Spiracha chilli mayo. Enjoy you are welcome.

Think you need 12 fish fingers, if you want 3 for each slice of toast. Also, why wait 12 minutes?

**Solksjaer!** · 30-05-20, 10:32

Originally posted by ComradeCollie View Post

Think you need 12 fish fingers, if you want 3 for each slice of toast. Also, why wait 12 minutes?

I ate two red hot off the grill due to fish finger greed . 12 mins = perfect. This recipe was not handed over without some heart wrenching. Do not dis. I need something to hand down to my children

**eagle eye** · 30-05-20, 10:33

Will we see a lot of companies reduce their office space or move out of the city centre with WFH becoming more prevalent?
I think the residential market could be interesting if this WFH really grows. Can imagine many moving up to two hours from Dublin to buy their big house for the same price or less than their City semi-d.

MyHome.ie - Houses, Apartments, Irish Property for Sale in Ireland

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/7-woodville-grove-lucan-co-dublin-k78nw40/3491105

MyHome.ie - Houses, Apartments, Irish Property for Sale in Ireland

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/8-clonbrock-court-retreat-road-athlone-co-westmeath-n37-y542/4428611

**Keane** · 30-05-20, 10:47

Originally posted by The C Kid View Post

Remote working is a far bigger threat to the jobs of the majority of people on here and in this country that anything machine learning or AI will develop in our lifetimes.

It's somewhat ironic that so many knowledge workers here are championing it and how it will improve their life, when the only advantage/USP they actually had was their ability to commute to a specific office location.

I think I'm the only person who has been doing that really. For a variety of reasons I'm not particularly worried about my job being outsourced to India if that's what you are getting at.

**Hitchhiker's Guide To...** · 30-05-20, 10:54

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**Hitchhiker's Guide To...** · 30-05-20, 10:57

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**Opr** · 30-05-20, 10:58

Originally posted by Keane View Post

I think I'm the only person who has been doing that really. For a variety of reasons I'm not particularly worried about my job being outsourced to India if that's what you are getting at.

I don't think it was directed at anyone in the thread specifically but meant as an observation on the impact remote working could have on the whole economy and the job landscape.

**Keane** · 30-05-20, 11:15

Originally posted by Opr View Post

I don't think it was directed at anyone in the thread specifically but meant as an observation on the impact remote working could have on the whole economy and the job landscape.

I thought he meant 'here' as IPB but I see CK probably means here as in Ireland. I agree that there are double edged sword elements to it that will be hard to fathom in the short term.

The bould Zuckerberg is already talking about reducing people's wages if they move away from the Bay Area to become remote workers for instance. Hard to separate the fact that he's a bollocks from the rights and wrongs of that move. Probably makes sense ultimately.

Part of the double edge of course is that workers will have access to a much broader job market in the same way corporations have had access to a global labour market this last decade or two.

**DeadParrot** · 30-05-20, 11:44

Originally posted by Gimmeabreak

I have commenced the reverse sear of a 4lb Carvary Rib. I'm looking forward to later.

Did you see the box tomahawk steakhouse are doing?

Page not found | Tomahawk

https://tomahawksteakhouse.ie/bbqpacks/

Am I mad to consider buying it? My main concern is the freshness of the ingredients

**Opr** · 30-05-20, 11:47

Originally posted by Keane View Post

I thought he meant 'here' as IPB but I see CK probably means here as in Ireland. I agree that there are double edged sword elements to it that will be hard to fathom in the short term.

The bould Zuckerberg is already talking about reducing people's wages if they move away from the Bay Area to become remote workers for instance. Hard to separate the fact that he's a bollocks from the rights and wrongs of that move. Probably makes sense ultimately.

Part of the double edge of course is that workers will have access to a much broader job market in the same way corporations have had access to a global labour market this last decade or two.

It is hard to fathom and really think through all the possible ramifications of remote working and how they will play out. Personally I think getting bogged down into specifics of each problem like automation, remote working, globalization, climate change, political unrest, etc, and trying to create ways to continue operating in the same system is the main issue. The problem is the outgrowing of that system. We need new big ideas.

**Opr** · 30-05-20, 12:04

Some awesome humanity among the chaos. A group of protestors protecting a cop who got separated from the others.

8aoxx73grt151.jpg

shx0vo887v151.jpg?width=640&height=423&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=40a0cb36acbca88e98dd41126303205addbe2ae3.jpg

**Hitchhiker's Guide To...** · 30-05-20, 12:18

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**eagle eye** · 30-05-20, 12:30

Finished watching Defending Jacob, it's only 8 episodes. Good for the most part but the ending was disappointing.

**ArmaniJeans** · 30-05-20, 12:35

Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

The advantage compared to the South of France is that you had the darkness to perfectly show the contrasts in the movie. Was daylight bright until about 10:30pm even in the North of France last night. Would be hard to go to a cinema after that experience!

Just looked at a map there, had never realised that a decent chunk of France is west of Greenwich London (as indeed almost all of Spain is).
I suppose it made sense for France to be in the same timezone as Germany and Italy though.

Europe Latitude and Longitude Map, Lat Long Maps of European Countries

https://www.mapsofworld.com/lat_long/europe.html

**eagle eye** · 30-05-20, 13:18

**Opr** · 30-05-20, 13:20

These are now not isolated incidents. Creating an environment where the police feel comfortable even attacking the press seems incredibly dangerous.

**eagle eye** · 30-05-20, 13:30

Originally posted by Opr View Post

These are now not isolated incidents. Creating an environment where the police feel comfortable even attacking the press seems incredibly dangerous.

I would be upset by this in most countries but in the US there's a lot of media I despise. No sympathy here.

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