Ah, I see..that is strange indeed. No idea - he will piss off the whackjobs for sure.
Well a lot of the MAGA types maintain they were infiltrated and the mob causing trouble were not Trumpies. Perhaps that will be his narrative to the nutjobs.
They could claim to reduce Omicron transmission for the very good reason that Omicron didn't even exist at the time...
The studies claimed SARS-CoV-2 transmission would be significantly reduced. Omicron is a variant of SARS-CoV-2.
Why have restrictions targeted at the un-vaccinated if they don't contribute to transmission anymore than the vaccinated? At least Macron was honest about it.
Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt
The studies claimed SARS-CoV-2 transmission would be significantly reduced. Omicron is a variant of SARS-CoV-2.
Why have restrictions targeted at the un-vaccinated if they don't contribute to transmission anymore than the vaccinated? At least Macron was honest about it.
I thought people understood the vaccination loses it efficacy after 6 months or so. Hence the booster . I think it's fine to target the unvaccinated for now.
Wife started going on about it after reading a few articles, so i've just booked the burnt city for may. did you get to go yet or are you going in 2022?
The studies claimed SARS-CoV-2 transmission would be significantly reduced. Omicron is a variant of SARS-CoV-2.
Why have restrictions targeted at the un-vaccinated if they don't contribute to transmission anymore than the vaccinated? At least Macron was honest about it.
Did these studies actually make a claim that 'the transmission of all future variants of covid that don't exist yet will be reduced via these vaccines'?
I doubt it.
"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
Wife started going on about it after reading a few articles, so i've just booked the burnt city for may. did you get to go yet or are you going in 2022?
Ohhh nice, I think you'll enjoy! They are just building the set now over 6 months (10000 sq metres or something) so there has been no shows yet, not for a couple of months I think. I'm going in May as well, as is my brother and his girlfriend the week before me.
Ohhh nice, I think you'll enjoy! They are just building the set now over 6 months (10000 sq metres or something) so there has been no shows yet, not for a couple of months I think. I'm going in May as well, as is my brother and his girlfriend the week before me.
Did these studies actually make a claim that 'the transmission of all future variants of covid that don't exist yet will be reduced via these vaccines'?
I doubt it.
You're missing the point. We are still treating unvaccinated people as if they are a much greater transmission danger, when the new variant appears to (perhaps maybe possibly) have made that irrelevant. AFAICT they are still at much higher risk of hospitalisation, but the justification for vaccine passports was to prevent transmission. If that justification no longer exists, all that's left is punishment and social stigma.
"I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson
You're missing the point. We are still treating unvaccinated people as if they are a much greater transmission danger, when the new variant appears to (perhaps maybe possibly) have made that irrelevant. AFAICT they are still at much higher risk of hospitalisation, but the justification for vaccine passports was to prevent transmission. If that justification no longer exists, all that's left is punishment and social stigma.
Cool, remove transmission risk.
They should still be punished and stigmatised for (a) being fucking idiots and (b), putting the health service under unnecessary strain.
"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
You're missing the point. We are still treating unvaccinated people as if they are a much greater transmission danger, when the new variant appears to (perhaps maybe possibly) have made that irrelevant. AFAICT they are still at much higher risk of hospitalisation, but the justification for vaccine passports was to prevent transmission. If that justification no longer exists, all that's left is punishment and social stigma.
People on motorcycles are required to wear a helmet even though they only provide a 37% reduction in fatal injuries. Their accidents would cause no extra danger to the rest of society, and yet the nanny state chooses to try and give them some protection.
My friend has been hit by the bug , refused the booster as he said the 2nd dose fatigued him last time. Now he’s bedbound for the last few days and living in he arse-end of nowhere.
The misinformation is gathering a full head of steam now (due to unfettered Social media ). It’s the new epidemic. I don’t care at this stage, it’s like talking to a Trumper about democracy.
In my view the unvaccinated need to be told they are at the back of the list if they develop a bad dose of covid. End of Story . They believe vaccination is more harmful than the virus so accept the consequences of your belief. I’m not saying let them suffer, I’m saying they move down the treatment priority list meh fk them . .
People on motorcycles are required to wear a helmet even though they only provide a 37% reduction in fatal injuries. Their accidents would cause no extra danger to the rest of society, and yet the nanny state chooses to try and give them some protection.
Yeah but you don't have to have Bill Gates inject his helmet into you.
I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that
People on motorcycles are required to wear a helmet even though they only provide a 37% reduction in fatal injuries. Their accidents would cause no extra danger to the rest of society, and yet the nanny state chooses to try and give them some protection.
Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt
You're missing the point. We are still treating unvaccinated people as if they are a much greater transmission danger, when the new variant appears to (perhaps maybe possibly) have made that irrelevant. AFAICT they are still at much higher risk of hospitalisation, but the justification for vaccine passports was to prevent transmission. If that justification no longer exists, all that's left is punishment and social stigma.
Yeah vaccine passes for hospitality are basically defunct now, surely they will start to be removed across Europe and here
The same arguments could be leveled at the obese. Certs to stop them going to McDonald's?
Obesity is indeed a huge problem. But we're not in the middle of an actual worldwide pandemic of ot.
So this is a false equivalence as sold by the School of Whataboutery.
Of course, if the unvaxxed want to sign disclaimers saying that they waive all right to medical treatment should they become very sick with covid, then grand. A lot of them are probably thick enough to do this.
"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
People on motorcycles are required to wear a helmet even though they only provide a 37% reduction in fatal injuries. Their accidents would cause no extra danger to the rest of society, and yet the nanny state chooses to try and give them some protection.
On the couple of visits I've had to the states this was the shocked me the most. Not so much the danger but I was aware of all obvious stuff with guns/crime/shootings etc. Cruising down a highway and guys with no helmets on Harleys at 50mph+ as if it's no big deal. I think it's state specific but definitely not required in South Carolina. The other one that got me laughing was Dry Sundays. Trying to buy beer outside of the town/city limits and no restaurant or gas station was allowed to sell. Go back to the town and I think only walmart or a single pub/restaurant was the the place open that you could get a beer. That however was local to the county I was in.
Obesity is indeed a huge problem. But we're not in the middle of an actual worldwide pandemic of ot.
So this is a false equivalence as sold by the School of Whataboutery.
Of course, if the unvaxxed want to sign disclaimers saying that they waive all right to medical treatment should they become very sick with covid, then grand. A lot of them are probably thick enough to do this.
I'll just leave this here in case some succumb to the fake news......
According to the latest WHO Global Health Observatory data, collated in 2016, more than 1·9 billion adults were overweight, with 650 million of these individuals being obese. The global prevalence of obesity nearly tripled between 1975 and 2016, with substantial rises in most countries, including those deemed to be low-income and middle-income nations. As such, the global spread of obesity has been labelled a pandemic, albeit one with a slower onset of cases and detrimental effects than the 2009 H1N1 pandemic or the COVID-19 pandemic.
And the above just proves that lots of people don't understand the meaning of the word pandemic.
A pandemic (from Greek πᾶν, pan, "all" and δῆμος, demos, "local people" the 'crowd') is an epidemic of an infectious disease that has spread across a large region, for instance multiple continents or worldwide, affecting a substantial number of individuals.
You might be fat - but you can't infect me with obesity.
"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
Was watching the capital riot doc last night.
Proud boy in a motorised scooter thing going on it's not about physical characteristics that make a proud boy but the qualities he possesses such as " we dont beat up women"!!
Obesity is a complex issue, it’s not only an individual problem in our current understanding. It’s a systemic and societal one. It's in corporations interests to create fatter people and they are lambasted with marketing from birth, it's also often a symptom not a disease - depression, anxiety and so on are the real causes. If there was a nice simple jab to mostly stop obese people taking up hospital resources then I imagine people not taking it wouldn't be coming out of things well either. There are all sorts of paths you can go down with this and what is preventable so some scales of reasonable thing to do vs impact on others takes place.
I think one of the main issues here is that it is causing a massive affect on others all at once, so by not taking something that frees up a LOT of resources, others are dying, not just from something related, cancer patients, everybody going undiagnosed with disease, missing surgeries etc.
There is a funny aside here that often unhealthy people die much younger and end up costing less healthcare resources over their lifetime.
Was watching the capital riot doc last night.
Proud boy in a motorised scooter thing going on it's not about physical characteristics that make a proud boy but the qualities he possesses such as " we dont beat up women"!!
Yeah vaccine passes for hospitality are basically defunct now, surely they will start to be removed across Europe and here
They won't. The punishment and stigma are vital for the strategy to work. Quite a few of you have gone beyond stigma and are fully into dehumanisation now. It's actually a bit scary.
"I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson
They won't. The punishment and stigma are vital for the strategy to work. Quite a few of you have gone beyond stigma and are fully into dehumanisation now. It's actually a bit scary.
We dont make the rules.
Ironically the vaccinated are being called Sheep . It's not like the unvaccinated are being quiet about it. They are wearing it as a badge of honour . If I wanted to refuse vaccination I'd keep quiet about it and only defend my position when challenged. Hopefully this shite goes away soon as its reduced in potency and we can all go shopping at 3 PM with our Italian friends .
Ironically the vaccinated are being called Sheep . It's not like the unvaccinated are being quiet about it. They are wearing it as a badge of honour . If I wanted to refuse vaccination I'd keep quiet about it and only defend my position when challenged. Hopefully this shite goes away soon as its reduced in potency and we can all go shopping at 3 PM with our Italian friends .
How many unvaccinated people do you know? I know two. One of them had a few arguments here about it and ended up leaving, the other keeps quiet about it and only defends their position when challenged.
"I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson
For over a decade it was the most mysterious and infamous house in Dublin, haunted by the ghost of the Celtic Tiger. Now a vast new mansion has risen, Phoenix-like, from the ashes of Walford, 24 Shrewsbury Road.
I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that
How many unvaccinated people do you know? I know two. One of them had a few arguments here about it and ended up leaving, the other keeps quiet about it and only defends their position when challenged.
As I've mentioned on here one Very vocal family member and a few others . I get push notifications on it all the time also I've been sneered at by some unmasked ejits also whilst getting an obesity Roll. My patience is running thin .
As I've mentioned on here one Very vocal family member and a few others . I get push notifications on it all the time also I've been sneered at by some unmasked ejits also whilst getting an obesity Roll. My patience is running thin .
You're doing that thing where you identify an entire group of people with its worst members. Do you see why that's a problem?
"I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson
You're doing that thing where you identify an entire group of people with its worst members. Do you see why that's a problem?
Not at all. I'm not on Social media calling them out as a group .
It doesnt matter to me what their reasons and fears are tbh. If they are not following scientific advice based on conspiracy theories they may have some of my sympathy however they ALL must accept the consequences. if unvaccinated for some outlier medical reason fair enough . These type of folk tend to keep their heads down . All I Express here is my opinion. I'm not on a crusade anywhere so fail to see the problem. Vaccines are an attempt at a solution . The antivaxxers offer nothing .
Not a cent, just watched. Had suspicion the ground today might keep it close alright, strange he went back over hurdles though. Dont think they know what to do with him tbh.
Hey we're amidst a cultural epistemic crisis that's only going to get worse. Every chance of the current extent of it in America being replicated over here, in fact I would bet on it. And who knows how much worse it will get from there either in America or in Europe.
Valid sources of knowledge, facts, truth, science, and reality are under cultural attack. The negative impacts of this are profoundly worse than hurting people's feelings by calling them out when they're attacking these things. As much as I'm not in favour of hurting people's feelings I'm beginning to come around to the idea that being quiet or passive or nice is not going to be what is needed if this really is to be a cultural war on of sorts.
Will you stand shoulder to shoulder with RDIII in the trenches, standing up for rationality and empiricism? Or will you be guilted into being quiet as you feel sorry for an individual's poor mental health or unfortunate stupidity?
Hey we're amidst a cultural epistemic crisis that's only going to get worse. Every chance of the current extent of it in America being replicated over here, in fact I would bet on it. And who knows how much worse it will get from there either in America or in Europe.
Valid sources of knowledge, facts, truth, science, and reality are under cultural attack. The negative impacts of this are profoundly worse than hurting people's feelings by calling them out when they're attacking these things. As much as I'm not in favour of hurting people's feelings I'm beginning to come around to the idea that being quiet or passive or nice is not going to be what is needed if this really is to be a cultural war on of sorts.
Will you stand shoulder to shoulder with RDIII in the trenches, standing up for rationality and empiricism? Or will you be guilted into being quiet as you feel sorry for an individual's poor mental health or unfortunate stupidity?
Or something.
I think I will relinquish my generalship of this noble cause to one far, far greater than I - Kayroo.
"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
You're doing that thing where you identify an entire group of people with its worst members.
What are the best members of the group saying that can be engaged with?
I simply haven't heard anything approaching a coherent argument against taking vaccine, all I have engaged with so far descends straight into mental illness / qanon level nonsense.
As far as I can see excepting vanishingly rare medical reasons, the only reason anyone has for not being vaccinated its that they are a stupid cunt and their stupidity and selfishness is what is currently jamming up the hospitals so I have no problem in treating them to vaccine passports etc. In the medium term I would prefer mandatory vaccination that can be more fairly enforced to the ever so slightly spurious passport.
Would it be going too far to clear out some big Island somewhere and ship out all the unvaccinated to it and turn it into something akin to a 21st century leper colony ????
Asking for a friend obvs
What are the best members of the group saying that can be engaged with?
I simply haven't heard anything approaching a coherent argument against taking vaccine, all I have engaged with so far descends straight into mental illness / qanon level nonsense.
As far as I can see excepting vanishingly rare medical reasons, the only reason anyone has for not being vaccinated its that they are a stupid cunt and their stupidity and selfishness is what is currently jamming up the hospitals so I have no problem in treating them to vaccine passports etc. In the medium term I would prefer mandatory vaccination that can be more fairly enforced to the ever so slightly spurious passport.
Note as well that the standard response of this group is to retreat into waving around some imagined victimhood status.
"Bwahhh poor me, I'm being discriminated against and being bullied!"
"Why is that?"
"Because I'm an idiot!" <demonstrably proven>
"I see."
"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
I was wondering why I hadn't received my new digital cert after getting the booster a few weeks ago, afraid I might be trodden under-hoof by a cavalry charging RDIII and his noble knights alongside some of GAB's new friends. Googling there and it seems they have only decided to start sending them out now.
I'm not boosted because I've Covid and I'm not registered anywhere as having Covid.
Will I be able to go for a pint, or will I have to join the great unbrained outside?
I think this will contribute to the removal of the passes for hospitality. Theres gonna be loads of people after Xmas who couldn't get a pcr so will be in same position as yourself. They can't just take your word for it and throw you out a pass, but at same time hardly fair you cant access hospitality because they testing capacity wasn't enough to cover the wave.
I dunno. Glad I got the vaccine and all to make my chances of getting sick much lower, but the vaccine pass was based on transmission and it's no longer fit for purpose. Can't switch our view now and say oh we will keep it to punish the unvaccinated.
It's not that long ago anti vaxxers/others claimed this would happen as was the danger of bringing in passes, and they were told they are mad. Then it went to ok let's do it temporarily so hospitality can get on with it. Now we are at a stage where vaxed and unvaxed can catch it and carry it but we want to continue with the passes. It's not right imo, we can't keep this in as a punishment for a group of people we don't agree with.
I dunno. Glad I got the vaccine and all to make my chances of getting sick much lower, but the vaccine pass was based on transmission and it's no longer fit for purpose. Can't switch our view now and say oh we will keep it to punish the unvaccinated.
Of course we can. When the facts change, I change my opinion. What do you do sir?
It's not about punishing the unvaccinated. It's about the overall health of the entire population.
We have a cohort whose Stupidism is damaging the health system that is there for the benefit of everyone. If these Stupidists can be incentivised to become good citizens by such negative incentives as vaccine passes, then that's what we should do.
Using terms like 'punish' just feeds their sense of victimhood. They should be reminded at all points that the real victims are those whose treatments are being delayed or cancelled, sometimes up to the point of death, because these Stupidists are needlessly clogging up the health system.
"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
Of course we can. When the facts change, I change my opinion. What do you do sir?
It's not about punishing the unvaccinated. It's about the overall health of the entire population.
We have a cohort whose Stupidism is damaging the health system that is there for the benefit of everyone. If these Stupidists can be incentivised to become good citizens by such negative incentives as vaccine passes, then that's what we should do.
Using terms like 'punish' just feeds their sense of victimhood. They should be reminded at all points that the real victims are those whose treatments are being delayed or cancelled, sometimes up to the point of death, because these Stupidists are needlessly clogging up the health system.
I don't really disagree with much of that, although I'm not a huge fan of just blaming it all on stupidity. And I still don't think it's enough to justify vaccine passes for hospitality and the likes.
Can't agree with the first part, you can't change the use of the vaccine pass which was first to stop transmission to now become a vaccine incentive, that's not right just because "the facts have changed". How daft a precedent would that be to set.
I don't really disagree with much of that, although I'm not a huge fan of just blaming it all on stupidity. And I still don't think it's enough to justify vaccine passes for hospitality and the likes.
Stop making excuses for Stupidism. There is no excuse.
This isn't a 'two sides' debate where we need to treat each side as being equally valid. They're not.
Can't agree with the first part, you can't change the use of the vaccine pass which was first to stop transmission to now become a vaccine incentive, that's not right just because "the facts have changed". How daft a precedent would that be to set.
Of course you can. We have public health objectives. One of them is 'get the entire population vaccinated'.
If vaccine passes are an effective incentive to force Stupidists to get vaxxed and achieve this critical objective, then of course we should use it.
You actually encourage Stupidism if you don't sanction Stupidist behaviour.
"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
AFAIK the idea was that transmission would be reduced by the vaccine was due to the fact that the total number of cases in the population would be reduced, obv omicron with an r number > 7 changed the landscape entirely.
I remember clearly though from last spring all the experts right from the earliest reports out of Israel were crystal clear that the vaccine would reduce serious illness but in itself would not prevent people from passing on the virus.
Stop making excuses for Stupidism. There is no excuse.
This isn't a 'two sides' debate where we need to treat each side as being equally valid. They're not.
Of course you can. We have public health objectives. One of them is 'get the entire population vaccinated'.
If vaccine passes are an effective incentive to force Stupidists to get vaxxed and achieve this critical objective, then of course we should use it.
You actually encourage Stupidism if you don't sanction Stupidist behaviour.
Hotspur's right, this kind of problem is going to become global. The internet created a place where wingnuts can find each other, form groups and convert others. We're going to have to figure out how to live with small cabals of loud, irrational, misinformed people on nearly every topic imaginable. Think of it as a training exercise for a united Ireland.
"I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson
Am I missing something about transmission? I know their biggest selling point is the prevention of serious illness but my understanding was that they also make you less like to actually get it in the first place.
You can't transmit it if you don't have it, right?
AFAIK the idea was that transmission would be reduced by the vaccine was due to the fact that the total number of cases in the population would be reduced, obv omicron with an r number > 7 changed the landscape entirely.
I remember clearly though from last spring all the experts right from the earliest reports out of Israel were crystal clear that the vaccine would reduce serious illness but in itself would not prevent people from passing on the virus.
Nah, vaccination reduced the probability of transmission of the initial virus and Alpha variant significantly. Lower viral load + shorter infection time = lower chance of contacts testing positive. Delta weakened that but the effect was still significant. This was only published yesterday: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2116597
"I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson
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