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    Originally posted by Lao Lao View Post
    Can you provide a link to the government report you mentioned above?

    From Central Banks reports I've seen, loans were down in 2020 in credit unions which seems to be more Covid related as it reversed the trend of 2019 when loans were up.
    It isn't about overall loan levels. It's about loans to the types of desperate borrowers who might need payday loans. That's where they fail. The credit union is a great piggy bank that the middle class can dip in and out of, but it's original mission was for the working classes and it has moved far away from that. Mainly through the types of boards they have fully of worthies, but not enough people from working class backgrounds to understand their needs and that's why those people turn to other providers and their loans aren't fit for purpose. I'll get that government report in a moment.
    "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

    Comment


      Page 37 of this report talks about uptake:

      https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...EvyE35NEUioPwg

      It's this shambles of a scheme:

      https://www.creditunion.ie/what-we-o...-micro-credit/

      Edit: its not a government report, but Pascal Donoghue referred to it earlier in the year when he was talking about introducing a moneylending Bill.
      Last edited by Hitchhiker's Guide To...; 22-08-21, 20:30.
      "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

      Comment


        Arguing about the Credit Union.

        A new low.
        I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

        Comment


          Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
          Page 37 of this report talks about uptake:

          https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...EvyE35NEUioPwg

          It's this shambles of a scheme:

          https://www.creditunion.ie/what-we-o...-micro-credit/

          Edit: its not a government report, but Pascal Donoghue referred to it earlier in the year when he was talking about introducing a moneylending Bill.
          Is that 'the government report'?
          "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

          Comment


            Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post

            Probably from 15 years ago, if its verified as current it will make the news tonight.
            Well

            a) It shouldn't matter how long ago it it is really. Shouldn't really be shared on whattapp
            b) i doubt you are suggesting if we hear of no Taliban atrocities on the mainstream news, with veritable video evidence - there are none.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post

              Is that 'the government report'?
              I remembered Pascal Donoghue referred to a moneylending report earlier in the year. My bad if my memory of a report read months ago and mentioned by a minister turned out to not be perfectly precise, albeit correct about the uselessness of the credit union 'solution'.
              "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

              Comment


                On a more neutral topic. I'm following the course on China that hotspur posted last week and it is fascinating (the 7th century Chinese public sector system seems superior in practice and efficiency to the current Irish one). I'd say a lot of history buffs would love it. The quality of the delivery is excellent and the prof is quite the renowned an expert. It does though require having the space in your life to watch 25 hours of videos.

                Get multilevel insights into one of the most astounding real-life dramas in modern history. Review China’s social, political, and economical rebirth, led by a Distinguished Professor of Political Science and expert.


                "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                  Page 37 of this report talks about uptake:

                  https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...EvyE35NEUioPwg

                  It's this shambles of a scheme:

                  https://www.creditunion.ie/what-we-o...-micro-credit/

                  Edit: its not a government report, but Pascal Donoghue referred to it earlier in the year when he was talking about introducing a moneylending Bill.
                  Ah here, sweet Jesus. That is not a government report like you claimed it was initially.

                  Also, the loan scheme is a state backed scheme that they've asked the credit unions to roll out as they have always been the people who do look after the poorer people - the credit unions didn't think it up.

                  Credit unions didn't sign up to the plan in huge numbers as they said the scheme had huge amounts of onerous bureaucracy.

                  You can't blame the credit unions when a shit government scheme is pushed onto them.

                  Comment


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                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Degag View Post

                      Well

                      a) It shouldn't matter how long ago it it is really. Shouldn't really be shared on whattapp
                      b) i doubt you are suggesting if we hear of no Taliban atrocities on the mainstream news, with veritable video evidence - there are none.
                      I seem to live a fairly sheltered WhatsApp existence.

                      B) is interesting, feels like a flip between whether they will revert to the batshit crazy mode or make some sort of an accommodation with the societal changes that have happened in the last 15 years. Probably a good idea to take unverified reports of atrocities or of major shifts to liberalism with a large grain of salt for the next few months.
                      If they blatantly revert to type then its going to be hard for the west to sit back and watch it happen.
                      Turning millions into thousands

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                        It does though require having the space in your life to watch 25 hours of videos.

                        Get multilevel insights into one of the most astounding real-life dramas in modern history. Review China’s social, political, and economical rebirth, led by a Distinguished Professor of Political Science and expert.

                        One could listen to it on Audible too. Probably take Tar two of his average walks to get through it.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Lao Lao View Post
                          Ah here, sweet Jesus. That is not a government report like you claimed it was initially.

                          Also, the loan scheme is a state backed scheme that they've asked the credit unions to roll out as they have always been the people who do look after the poorer people - the credit unions didn't think it up.

                          Credit unions didn't sign up to the plan in huge numbers as they said the scheme had huge amounts of onerous bureaucracy.

                          You can't blame the credit unions when a shit government scheme is pushed onto them.
                          right. first of all, I'm going to ignore the pedantic nonsense about the reports providence - if its good enough to influence state thoughts on moneylending its an important report. And as i said in the previous post, I was working off memory. Its not a desperately faulty memory that I can't precisely remember the providence of a report I read a good few months ago, but still got it approximately right.

                          As a second point - yes, the state had to come up with their own crappy scheme because the credit unions had moved too far away from their origin of lending to the working class, to being a hobby bank for the middle classes, and were no longer lending to the working classes. Thats why the government had to come up with essentially a bribery scheme for credit unions to get them to go back to their original mission.

                          Then the credit unions managed to fuck it up so spectacularly, or because they have no interest in the working class, that nobody used the scheme.

                          So can we stop with this nonsense that you started with by saying the credit unions are actually good for low income people to borrow money from. No they are clearly not fine. They have to have external interventions to get them lending to the poor, and even then manage to mess it up as the report says. They are provably shit. There should be a regulation that says the boards of credit unions must have people from every socioeconomic demographic on their board, and not just professionals who have no idea of the needs or how to lend to the poor, as they have lost sight of how they began.
                          Last edited by Hitchhiker's Guide To...; 22-08-21, 21:32.
                          "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

                            right. first of all, I'm going to ignore the pedantic nonsense about the reports providence - if its good enough to influence state thoughts on moneylending its an important report. And as i said in the previous post, I was working off memory. Its not a desperately faulty memory that I can't precisely remember the providence of a report I read a good few months ago, but still got it approximately right.

                            As a second point - yes, the state had to come up with their own crappy scheme because the credit unions had moved too far away from their origin of lending to the working class, to being a hobby bank for the middle classes, and were no longer lending to the working classes. Thats why the government had to come up with essentially a bribery scheme for credit unions to get them to go back to their original mission.

                            Then the credit unions managed to fuck it up so spectacularly, or because they have no interest in the working class, that nobody used the scheme.

                            So can we stop with this nonsense that you started with by saying the credit unions are actually good for low income people to borrow money from. No they are clearly not fine. They have to have external interventions to get them lending to the poor, and even then manage to mess it up as the report says. They are provably shit. There should be a regulation that says the boards of credit unions must have people from every socioeconomic demographic on their board, and not just professionals who have no idea of the needs or how to lend to the poor, as they have lost sight of how they began.
                            Actual LOL.

                            I did not start this.

                            I never said that credit unions were actually good for low income people to borrow money for.

                            You started this by spouting absolute nonsense stating credit unions had "Ridiculous levels of admin and complex rigid repayments"

                            When I called you out on that, you consistently pivoted your argument multiple times to try settle on something that you are right about, which you still haven't managed to do by the by.

                            And now. Now, you try to say that I started this by saying something that I never said.

                            Good luck and good night.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Emmet View Post

                              that's about 30/40k steps per day. Some going if right!
                              Depends on weight/speed/body composition/height/etc but yeah a rough guesstimate of calories at an average of 26k.

                              Funny it seems that an an average speed burns less calories than a slow or fast speed, according to these calculators anyway.
                              Last edited by Tar.Aldarion; 22-08-21, 21:59.

                              Comment



                                Originally posted by Lao Lao View Post

                                You started this by spouting absolute nonsense stating credit unions had "Ridiculous levels of admin and complex rigid repayments"

                                When I called you out on that, you consistently pivoted your argument multiple times to try settle on something that you are right about, which you still haven't managed to do by the by.
                                You are right, I didn't emphasise enough the bureaucracy in the scheme aimed at the working class. I was talking from the beginning about access to credit for poor people - thats what this whole conversation is about, it dates back to the conversation about Revolut and payday loans for poor people. I should have emphasised in more detail how the scheme is bureaucratic, to counteract your point that it was effortless. Luckily, at the last minute, someone came in to support my point. Step forward , errrr, ...

                                Originally posted by Lao Lao View Post
                                Ah here, sweet Jesus. That is not a government report like you claimed it was initially.

                                Also, the loan scheme is a state backed scheme that they've asked the credit unions to roll out as they have always been the people who do look after the poorer people - the credit unions didn't think it up.

                                Credit unions didn't sign up to the plan in huge numbers as they said the scheme had huge amounts of onerous bureaucracy.

                                You can't blame the credit unions when a shit government scheme is pushed onto them.



                                I also showed this in the TASC report, where it quotes MABS advisors saying how useless the scheme was. And your only point about that is that 'oh its not a government report' as if TASC are making up fake money advisors. Come on now.
                                "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by Tar.Aldarion View Post

                                  Depends on weight/speed but average 26k this month.
                                  7000 steps an hour, according to google, that's a solid 4 hours worth of walking a day. jaysus.
                                  "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                  Comment


                                    Gonna throw this out of shits and giggles...

                                    Don't know any of ye but a long term lurker from the Boards days. There are some fantastically intelligent people on here and i thoroughly enjoy reading on a daily basis. I've even tried engaging in recent months.

                                    There are some posters that catch my attention more than others.... and one is Hitch. Obviously a very intelligent guy, but; seems to (wants to) know everything about everything.

                                    A thing about lurking over the years; i've see certain changes in certain posters. Hitch for example before i thought, was far more allowable to the fact he may be wrong on certain occasion. We all are of course. Recently though i feel he thinks he must defend every opinion he has to the death. To his detriment i feel.

                                    Have learned alot from this little thread over the years and just said i'd share. I could be way off the mark with the above, especially as Hitch is one of the best contributers on here (this ain't an attack on him!)... but hey!

                                    Comment


                                      Tell us what you really think Daragh...

                                      Turning millions into thousands

                                      Comment


                                        Originally posted by Lao Lao View Post

                                        I'll leave it to Tar to explain in future!
                                        I can bring him from:

                                        "That could not possibly be the case as it would undermine the very essence of a single European banking market" in one post to "Lao Lao and credit unions are superior" for one low fee, monthly or weekly repayments available @7.8% APR, and reprogram him for free.

                                        Comment


                                          Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post


                                          You are right, I didn't emphasise enough the bureaucracy in the scheme aimed at the working class. I was talking from the beginning about access to credit for poor people - thats what this whole conversation is about, it dates back to the conversation about Revolut and payday loans for poor people. I should have emphasised in more detail how the scheme is bureaucratic, to counteract your point that it was effortless. Luckily, at the last minute, someone came in to support my point. Step forward , errrr, ...




                                          I also showed this in the TASC report, where it quotes MABS advisors saying how useless the scheme was. And your only point about that is that 'oh its not a government report' as if TASC are making up fake money advisors. Come on now.
                                          Yet again, you cherry pick bits of information and completely ignore other bits to try and suit your utterly flawed arguments.

                                          The credit unions did NOT invent this loan  scheme.

                                          The credit unions did NOT come up with the onerous bureaucratic requirements - They have all come from the state.

                                          Your TASC report clearly states that credit unions have been critical of the loan scheme as well. Below is a direct quote from your "non government" TASC report


                                          However, even though it fits with a traditional credit union ethos and would provide them with new clients, the take-up of the Scheme by credit unions has been relatively slow, with less than 35% of credit unions around the country taking part. The Scheme has critics on both sides – representatives of credit unions say that there is a huge bureaucratic and administrative burden on credit unions to deploy the PMC scheme, and representatives of community groups (and some from MABS) argue that
                                          the administrative burden is too much for potential borrowers, who have to open a credit union account in order to take part. There is a limited amount of money that credit unions have to offer for the Scheme, and so the take-up has been minimal.

                                          According to one MABS Money Advisor,

                                          Now, our local credit unions [in Dublin] do offer them [It Makes Sense Loans], but I have yet to see a client of mine get one. The criteria are very tight and also credit unions only have a limited amount to do it with. So, I haven’t seen any results from that. […] And it’s a pity, because there is [limited] risk for the Credit Unions, because repayments [can be] deducted at source and from social welfare.
                                          I know you're not big into details so let me summarise the quoted bit from the report that you brought into this debate.

                                          The onerous bureaucratic regulations on the credit unions combined with the administrative burden and very tight criteria on the applicant, all of which come from the GOVERNMENT are the reasons why the scheme has largely failed so far.





                                          Comment


                                            Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

                                            7000 steps an hour, according to google, that's a solid 4 hours worth of walking a day. jaysus.
                                            It's not too bad broken up, or at the speed my 6 foot 6 walking buddy walks at. It's very good for the mind too.

                                            Comment


                                              you could be right degag! It might be due to going deeper into academic argumentation over the years. In general, research theories only work if you cling strongly to them until you need to reject them - you have to love the theory and defend it against everything until it becomes clear it can no longer be defended, as that process allows you to truly understand the phenomenon you are trying to study (or so the idea goes anyway). So I've got into the habit of strongly sticking to an idea and defending it until it is collapsed in real life as in academia.

                                              Maybe also given the job is idea generation, its useful practice to float loads of ideas and see what work. So you might have loads of stupid ideas, but its still a good idea to come up with them, because the good ideas emerge along the stupid ideas. But it probably means then you have more ideas than are a good idea to have.
                                              "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                              Comment


                                                Originally posted by Lao Lao View Post

                                                The onerous bureaucratic regulations on the credit unions combined with the administrative burden and very tight criteria on the applicant, all of which come from the GOVERNMENT are the reasons why the scheme has largely failed so far.
                                                I think you are maybe thinking that the end user - the person who wants to access the service - gives a fuck who exactly fucked up the service. The key point is the credit unions are offering a service which, as we've both agreed now, you reluctantly, is most definitely bureaucratic as I said in my opening post.

                                                Plus there's the fundamental point you conveniently chose to ignore from my post - the government had to come up with this service, because institutions like credit unions, that the working class used to be able to turn to for help, were no longer helping those working classes. They were instead offering great services to well paid people like you - which is why the middle class and the Irish Times is full of praise and defence for credit unions and their boards of directors are stuffed with barristers and vicars, but they can't work out how to offer services to the people they are originally intended to serve
                                                "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                                Comment


                                                  Anyway, I'll stop now. Will even give you the last word on the matter. Its entirely possible I'm in a bad mood in general trying to work out what to do about our house that was meant to be bought next week but now looks like collapsing, and then I'm unfairly taking it out on innocent passersby.
                                                  "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                                  Comment


                                                    I went to have a look at Stoneybatter house too and won't get it as it isn't cat friendly, so you know, quite similar and stressful.

                                                    Comment




                                                      Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

                                                      I think you are maybe thinking that the end user - the person who wants to access the service - gives a fuck who exactly fucked up the service. The key point is the credit unions are offering a service which, as we've both agreed now, you reluctantly, is most definitely bureaucratic as I said in my opening post.

                                                      Plus there's the fundamental point you conveniently chose to ignore from my post - the government had to come up with this service, because institutions like credit unions, that the working class used to be able to turn to for help, were no longer helping those working classes. They were instead offering great services to well paid people like you - [B]which is why the middle class and the Irish Times is full of praise and defence for credit unions and their boards of directors are stuffed with barristers and vicars[B], but they can't work out how to offer services to the people they are originally intended to serve

                                                      You've consistently stated that the reason the loan scheme hasn't worked is due to the incompetence of the credit unions. This simply isn't the case.

                                                      You are also stating that credit unions have changed their ethos and no longer want to lend money to poor people which is also simply not the case. To yet again quote your non government TASC report that you are basing all your arguments on, it states the following;

                                                      Borrowing from high interest moneylenders was another cause of problem debt raised by Money Advisors. Research has proven that “banks do not generally provide the sort of small, short term loans poorer people typically need at short notice” (Mosedale et al. 2018, 7). Devising an alternative lending option for low-income households remains a persistent policy challenge – and one that is greatly
                                                      needed.

                                                      For example, according to one MABS Money Advisor, the appeal of high interest loans from moneylenders is based on their accessibility:
                                                      They’ve burnt their bridges with the credit union. They already have a debt with them. So, where else do they go? I understand the appeal of [moneylenders]. For people on low-incomes. And they [moneylenders] absolutely know what they are doing. They become their friends. And they don’t want to let them down. They will be the first person they pay - they might not pay their gas bill. But they will pay Mr(Moneylender) man
                                                      So just to be clear, poor people aren't going to moneylenders because the credit union won't help them. The credit union has already helped them and they haven't paid them back!

                                                      Also, the bolded bit above is just complete and utter nonsense that you are spouting out as fact and doesn't even warrant a proper response.

                                                      I'm done with this!





                                                      Comment


                                                        Surely the answer to it all is 'better financial education'.

                                                        Then payday lenders (shivers) become irrelevant.
                                                        "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                                                        Comment


                                                          Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
                                                          Surely the answer to it all is 'better financial education'.

                                                          Then payday lenders (shivers) become irrelevant.
                                                          I don't think we needed three or four fecking posts in a row about it anyway. On to more important matters? Did ya decide on what dag to get?
                                                          Jayzus, Sheila! I forgot me feckin' trousers

                                                          Comment


                                                            Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
                                                            Surely the answer to it all is 'better financial education'.

                                                            Then payday lenders (shivers) become irrelevant.
                                                            Well done for coming up with the one proposed solution that every country in the world has tried and failed at. Although we could do a lot better.
                                                            "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                                            Comment


                                                              Have a vaccine question, in light of this proposed idea to open everything up

                                                              ​​​​https://www.irishtimes.com/news/poli...53508?mode=amp

                                                              When they talk about vaccine effectiveness as being say 85%, what exactly do they mean?

                                                              Is it that if you come into contact with someone with covid, you've a 15% chance of getting covid from them and a 86% chance of not getting it?

                                                              Or is it that 85% of people vaccinated now won't get symptomatic covid, while 15% of people will probably catch it if they come into contact with someone with covid?
                                                              ​​​​​​

                                                              ​​​​​​Do you know what I mean?
                                                              "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                                              Comment


                                                                Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                                                                Have a vaccine question, in light of this proposed idea to open everything up

                                                                ​​​​https://www.irishtimes.com/news/poli...53508?mode=amp

                                                                When they talk about vaccine effectiveness as being say 85%, what exactly do they mean?

                                                                Is it that if you come into contact with someone with covid, you've a 15% chance of getting covid from them and a 86% chance of not getting it?

                                                                Or is it that 85% of people vaccinated now won't get symptomatic covid, while 15% of people will probably catch it if they come into contact with someone with covid?
                                                                ​​​​​​

                                                                ​​​​​​Do you know what I mean?




                                                                His rival it seems, had broken his dreams,By stealing the girl of his fancy.Her name was Magill, and she called herself Lil,But everyone knew her as Nancy.

                                                                Comment


                                                                  Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                                                                  Here's the actual product. It seems genuinely non exploitative.

                                                                  I looked into this as promised. Obviously I can see that's they are less out to pillage Johnny Pleb. I'm not sure I's go as far as to say it's non-exploitive. It looks to exactly be a payday loan, just with lower rates. And those rates are yet to be confirmed.
                                                                  A quick google suggests that a payday loan charges 18p per day per £100. So somebody paid fortnightly who gets £250 a week early pays £3.15. Revolute look to be be charging £1.50
                                                                  Obliviously miles less grime sauce on the side on their offering. And being a flat fee, means that higher earners paid monthly are more less hit is they want to take a few K early. Plus integrating with payroll will see it paid back on time all the time. It's facilitating people being less-shit with their money.

                                                                  It also means that people get paid their salary directly into their Revolut account. The cost impact of that has to be factored in too.

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

                                                                    Well done for coming up with the one proposed solution that every country in the world has tried and failed at. Although we could do a lot better.
                                                                    I blame the financial educators myself
                                                                    "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                                                                    Comment


                                                                      Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                                                                      When they talk about vaccine effectiveness as being say 85%, what exactly do they mean?

                                                                      Is it that if you come into contact with someone with covid, you've a 15% chance of getting covid from them and a 86% chance of not getting it?

                                                                      Or is it that 85% of people vaccinated now won't get symptomatic covid, while 15% of people will probably catch it if they c into contact with someone with covid?
                                                                      ​​​
                                                                      ​​
                                                                      You know when you do studies and you find something like - being male is associated with being 80% less likely to save than being female? It's like that, but the comparison is between vaccinated and unvaccinated groups getting Covid.

                                                                      It says nothing about one's absolute chances of getting it.

                                                                      Comment



                                                                        Originally posted by Pat Mustard View Post

                                                                        Thousands everyday? Why are Gardai only convicting about 150-200 per week?
                                                                        Catching 200 a week represents <5% of the people actually drink driving. So that would mean thousands are doing that. Possibly 10s, depending on how low that % gets.

                                                                        Originally posted by Degag View Post
                                                                        Anyone with a credit card paying anything other than the €30 (?) Gov fee is doing it wrong IMO.
                                                                        Disagree. The cheapest credit card are generally terrible, and lack most of the features that make a credit card advantageous. That's without considering the rates.
                                                                        Cheaper cards are generally pay less, get nothing situations.


                                                                        Comment


                                                                          Kids # 1&2 just jabbed.
                                                                          Seemed to be approx 80% 12-15 y/os in the vaccine centre and then the rest looked to be younger adults presumably on Jab 2.

                                                                          You'd imagine they'll be closing up some of the MVCs pretty soon, given there'll be no-one left to jab.
                                                                          "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            Crazy the WhatsApp would employ content moderators if nothing can be done about offensive WhatsApp content.............


                                                                            Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

                                                                            Comment


                                                                              Originally posted by Mellor View Post


                                                                              Disagree. The cheapest credit card are generally terrible, and lack most of the features that make a credit card advantageous. That's without considering the rates.
                                                                              Cheaper cards are generally pay less, get nothing situations.

                                                                              Are you talking about rewards etc? There's no obvious option in the Irish market atm. In some other countries you can easily game points and cashback. This can make credit cards a very obvious proposition. The KBC card I have comes with a small cashback percentage on certain purchases but it's capped at €10 a month. I always cover the stamp duty and a few quid extra but it's hardly of massive benefit. I think the old schemes from AIB/BOI/UB had some monthly fees but you would get great discounts on various stuff like Ticketmaster, Aer Lingus, insurance and others. They were nuked a while back afaik.

                                                                              Comment


                                                                                Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post

                                                                                I blame the financial educators myself
                                                                                I think so. We need to design an education system for early intervention also. I think its around 6, 7, 8 that a lot of kids have their essential views on money formed.
                                                                                "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                  Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

                                                                                  I think so. We need to design an education system for early intervention also. I think its around 6, 7, 8 that a lot of kids have their essential views on money formed.
                                                                                  I was writing down my savings each week and forecasting interest earned at expected interest rates, at 5 years old. There was a scheme in school to school to get kids into saving, we'd bring in a pound or something each week and the teacher would deposit it in our accounts.

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                    Last minute trip to Killarney. Have been granted one mornings golf .

                                                                                    What's my best option within 30-40 min drive and any other must do's I should fit into the rest of the 3 days?

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                      Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

                                                                                      I think so. We need to design an education system for early intervention also. I think its around 6, 7, 8 that a lot of kids have their essential views on money formed.
                                                                                      I have no idea how our kids formed their views but from observation:

                                                                                      Child #1 (14): is extremely conservative with money, even money that is not hers, seems afraid to spend it.
                                                                                      Child #2 (12): is a spender but not a crazy one. Is interested in money and how it 'works'. Could follow paternal side.
                                                                                      Child #3 (10): likely to be a payday lender victim all her life although cute enough to know that begging Daddy for €€€ produces optimal results

                                                                                      None of them really seem to get the link between earning (via jobs) and money. Child #1 for example wanted money for some unspecified purpose. I told her what jobs she could do to earn it. You could see the mental gymnastics going on before a decision of 'that's too much like hard work' was taken and she walked away, dropping her request.

                                                                                      So yeah, clearly we haven't done a very good job.
                                                                                      "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

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                                                                                        heh. I did some research at some point on this. Not much though. And the most established advice on what is good for kids and money in terms of how they perceive money when they grow up is to give them a steady stable reliable pocket money every week with no conditions attached. So we use the Revolut Junior account for that for the eldest. Every Saturday night €10 is taken from my account and put in hers. She can see it on the Junior app on her tablet and has a bank card for spending in shops. Think its quite handy.

                                                                                        There's also an interesting thing in the Junior app where the parent can set 'stretch goals' - things the kids can do to earn extra money. Its quite a smart idea in terms of showing how earnings can add to money.

                                                                                        They are though missing a savings element - something where the kids learn the benefits of storing money up for bigger future expenses.
                                                                                        "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

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                                                                                          Originally posted by horatio1 View Post
                                                                                          Last minute trip to Killarney. Have been granted one mornings golf .

                                                                                          What's my best option within 30-40 min drive and any other must do's I should fit into the rest of the 3 days?
                                                                                          Golf Now app.
                                                                                          Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

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                                                                                            I'm fairly sure if offered a choice between a 5c and 20c coin I would still choose the 5c coin as it's slightly bigger.

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                                                                                              Originally posted by hotspur View Post
                                                                                              I'm fairly sure if offered a choice between a 5c and 20c coin I would still choose the 5c coin as it's slightly bigger.
                                                                                              Typical Spurs fan evaluating what coin to throw at the Arsenal match. It's all about saving the 15c right?
                                                                                              Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

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                                                                                                Originally posted by coillcam View Post

                                                                                                Are you talking about rewards etc? There's no obvious option in the Irish market atm. In some other countries you can easily game points and cashback. This can make credit cards a very obvious proposition. The KBC card I have comes with a small cashback percentage on certain purchases but it's capped at €10 a month. I always cover the stamp duty and a few quid extra but it's hardly of massive benefit. I think the old schemes from AIB/BOI/UB had some monthly fees but you would get great discounts on various stuff like Ticketmaster, Aer Lingus, insurance and others. They were nuked a while back afaik.
                                                                                                If there's no reward/benefits available, then taking the min or zero rate card is the only play. I think that came up before the CC options in Ireland.
                                                                                                Kind of baffling that pro-consumer aspects are kyboshed, leaving only the debt-coaster option.

                                                                                                I remember thinking when when I Was younger that anyone would be insane to own a credit card, possibly influenced by similar only-bad-side aspects on offer.

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                                                                                                  Originally posted by horatio1 View Post
                                                                                                  Last minute trip to Killarney. Have been granted one mornings golf .

                                                                                                  What's my best option within 30-40 min drive and any other must do's I should fit into the rest of the 3 days?
                                                                                                  The killeen course at Killarney golf club, spectacular.

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                                                                                                    Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                                                                                                    heh. I did some research at some point on this. Not much though. And the most established advice on what is good for kids and money in terms of how they perceive money when they grow up is to give them a steady stable reliable pocket money every week with no conditions attached. So we use the Revolut Junior account for that for the eldest. Every Saturday night €10 is taken from my account and put in hers. She can see it on the Junior app on her tablet and has a bank card for spending in shops. Think its quite handy.

                                                                                                    There's also an interesting thing in the Junior app where the parent can set 'stretch goals' - things the kids can do to earn extra money. Its quite a smart idea in terms of showing how earnings can add to money.

                                                                                                    They are though missing a savings element - something where the kids learn the benefits of storing money up for bigger future expenses.
                                                                                                    Meh, I kinda assume they'll take the good stuff we gave them, discard the bad and put that on top of their own life experience to come up with something that works for them.

                                                                                                    If not, they'll be living at home when they're 30.
                                                                                                    Last edited by Raoul Duke III; 23-08-21, 10:59.
                                                                                                    "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

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                                                                                                      Originally posted by horatio1 View Post
                                                                                                      Last minute trip to Killarney. Have been granted one mornings golf .

                                                                                                      What's my best option within 30-40 min drive and any other must do's I should fit into the rest of the 3 days?
                                                                                                      Good shout from Dobby. If you're going this week as it suggests you are then you have the weather!
                                                                                                      I played Dooks near Glenbeigh during the heatwave and honestly had some of the most spectacular scenery i've seen on any golf course. Would recommend.

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                                                                                                        Originally posted by Mellor View Post


                                                                                                        Catching 200 a week represents

                                                                                                        Disagree. The cheapest credit card are generally terrible, and lack most of the features that make a credit card advantageous. That's without considering the rates.
                                                                                                        Cheaper cards are generally pay less, get nothing situations.

                                                                                                        I'm open to correction but I'm pretty sure he meant that anybody with a credit card should be clearing their balance in full every month and never paying any interest. The only charge you should be paying is the government €30 stamp duty fee per year which you have to pay. Once you do that you have access to free short term credit.

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                                                                                                          Originally posted by horatio1 View Post
                                                                                                          Last minute trip to Killarney. Have been granted one mornings golf .

                                                                                                          What's my best option within 30-40 min drive and any other must do's I should fit into the rest of the 3 days?
                                                                                                          Tralee is an absolute treat but pricey. We played it in perfect weather similar to this week and it was so enjoyable and I didn’t even play well.
                                                                                                          His rival it seems, had broken his dreams,By stealing the girl of his fancy.Her name was Magill, and she called herself Lil,But everyone knew her as Nancy.

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                                                                                                            Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post

                                                                                                            I have no idea how our kids formed their views but from observation:

                                                                                                            Child #1 (14): is extremely conservative with money, even money that is not hers, seems afraid to spend it.
                                                                                                            Child #2 (12): is a spender but not a crazy one. Is interested in money and how it 'works'. Could follow paternal side.
                                                                                                            Child #3 (10): likely to be a payday lender victim all her life although cute enough to know that begging Daddy for €€€ produces optimal results

                                                                                                            None of them really seem to get the link between earning (via jobs) and money. Child #1 for example wanted money for some unspecified purpose. I told her what jobs she could do to earn it. You could see the mental gymnastics going on before a decision of 'that's too much like hard work' was taken and she walked away, dropping her request.

                                                                                                            So yeah, clearly we haven't done a very good job.


                                                                                                            I've no idea of what is/isn't acceptable in terms of kids working nowadays but when I was a kid, I got paid a weekly amount of pocket money. The mother guarded the purse strings with her life. If you spent all your money before the next pocket money day, tough shit, that's your problem. The aul lad was sometimes a bit more forgiving if you caught him at the right time and out of ear shot of herself. I remember once, I had spent all my pocket money and pay day was three days away but all my mates were going to some new film in the cinema in two days time. He gave me the extra cash as he didn't want me to be the only one out of all my mates to miss it. When I was 14, I started working with the milk man on a Friday afternoon after school, calling door to door, helping collect peoples milk bill for the week. At 16, I moved onto be a lounge boy. I wanted to still do some weekend work during 6th year but the parents would have none of it. There was no pocket money while I was working but it came back for the last year of school.

                                                                                                            So, I have to agree with Hitch. Pocket money each week and options for extra if you work. I mean, it turned me from a working class boy into a middle class, Times reading, credit union loving, Homeless people hugging, barrister for buddies, model citizen.

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                                                                                                              I feel Lao Lao is now cured. Who's next?
                                                                                                              "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

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                                                                                                                My growing-up experience was that my dad never had money, was always spending it on nonsense, while my uncle was famous in the family for 'still having his first 50 pence piece'. The result was my dad was always working hard to get promotions to catch up on his spending, while my uncle seems to have coasted through doing not very much*, still in the very first place he bought when he was 20. Always took that to heart that its better to always be a bit broke and hungry as it gets you up in the morning.


                                                                                                                * It turns out this wasn't actually true, he rose to be the marketing director of a large investment firm, but never mentioned it, and so seemed to be a dosser. Not sure what that means for my perceived reality.

                                                                                                                But those early life perceptions around money and its use seem to really stick with you. Remember reading one study that showed kids in an experimental game were more likely to use credit-card like facilities in the game if they didn't have regular pocket money in real life. They seemed to have a disposable attitude to spending and money. While kids who had regular flows were much more sensible.
                                                                                                                "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

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                                                                                                                  Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                                                                                                                  I feel Lao Lao is now cured. Who's next?
                                                                                                                  Be careful, I still have Tar on retainer...

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                                                                                                                    Cheers Everyone. I will be digging up the Killeen Friday morning.

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                                                                                                                      Originally posted by Wombatman View Post

                                                                                                                      Golf Now app.
                                                                                                                      Ah Wombat. A man of your knowledge shouldn't be giving this cancerous application any marketing. Keep Golf Now out of Ireland, or anywhere. It's only bad for golf!

                                                                                                                      This may or may not be an original thought of my own.
                                                                                                                      All efforts were made to make this thought original but with the abundance of thoughts in the world the originality of this thought cannot be guaranteed.
                                                                                                                      The author is not liable for any issue arising from the platitudinous nature of this post.

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                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Lao Lao View Post
                                                                                                                        I'm open to correction but I'm pretty sure he meant that anybody with a credit card should be clearing their balance in full every month and never paying any interest. The only charge you should be paying is the government €30 stamp duty fee per year which you have to pay. Once you do that you have access to free short term credit.
                                                                                                                        Perhaps that’s what they meant. But surely it’s a given that being hit up for the interest is a bad move.

                                                                                                                        Bit I was pointing out that sometimes taking a duty+fee card can be +EV compared to a duty+no fee card. But maybe, as pointed out above they don’t exist in the Irish market.

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                                                                                                                          Originally posted by Theresa View Post

                                                                                                                          Ah Wombat. A man of your knowledge shouldn't be giving this cancerous application any marketing. Keep Golf Now out of Ireland, or anywhere. It's only bad for golf!
                                                                                                                          Crazy talk. I use it all the time. Fantastic choice and value. If golf courses used it correctly they would be able to generate more off peak revenue and be much better off.
                                                                                                                          What do you have against it?
                                                                                                                          Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

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