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    UCC Mathematical Sciences expert Michael Cronin has told people - "You have an increased chance of winning this weekend's Lotto Jackpot of €19.5 Million".

    Comment


      It's not an uncomplentary thing Lazare and it's not about you.

      People were initially debating something about what the meaningfulness of what one man does has on men in general.

      That is predicated on believing that there exists in the real world a thing called men. I would be inclined towards the view that there is not.

      This issue is a very old one in philosophy called the problem of universals.

      Apart from that, I agree with your suggestions on what someone can do. Not that I much do them myself, I do a bit, but I'm a delightful sprite who is of no visual threat to anyone.

      Lastly, I think any full discussion of all of this could do with including how women use their sexuality. I happen to hold a view that I would prefer if we didn't live in a time and place where every other woman is wearing yoga pants etc.

      But obviously now is that not the time for introducing that given what happened which is due to some dangerous nutjob.

      Comment


        I'm looking to buy a Buddhist statue from the UK as a present for someone. It'll be over three hundred quid, and I was looking for a way to get it without all the customs and double vat paying etc. which jack up the cost to the point of not being viable.

        So I thought to get it sent to the North, but I don't know anyone in the North, so I found a place in Derry that acts like a Parcel Motel type thing.

        It sounds like a classy operation, one option people have in Donegal is to pick their package up in Buncrana in a car park one evening from 6:10-6:20pm.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post

          What did he do?
          The main thing was he terrorised everyone. That was his thing. So saying it was about women is simply wrong. Everyone was his victim. Yet the way it was written implied that he was particularly seeking out young women, which patently wasn't the case. Plus it was so refreshingly new at the time, he was an edgy comic trying out something new that just wasn't happening elsewhere.
          "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

          Comment


            Originally posted by Dice75 View Post
            Touch wood in 30 years socializing in the City Centre I've never had any real hassle or trouble bar one attempted mugging when some fucker pulled a knife on me.

            Many times out with herself though maybe walking up Grafton Street at 3am or wherever and ive turned us down a side street or crossed over and she would be completely oblivious as to why i did it. Can only imagine what it is like for a woman own her own or even in a small group at times.

            There are an element of men out there and it will never really change in my opinion.
            Are you describing a national problem with drinking or a national problem with men there?
            "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

            Comment


              Originally posted by hotspur View Post
              Lastly, I think any full discussion of all of this could do with including how women use their sexuality. I happen to hold a view that I would prefer if we didn't live in a time and place where every other woman is wearing yoga pants etc.
              Yeah. They are asking for it. Scheming on new way to "use their sexuality" to bamboozle men.

              Do you think they should cover up in the pool and at the beach too?

              They need to change their behavior in any case. It's not like one could just look away or better still remove oneself from harms way if it's too much to be dealing with like.
              Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

              Comment


                Originally posted by Wombatman View Post
                58% of Covid hospital cases aren't there because of Covid. WTF like. Yes, I know they still have to be managed differently but the numbers are input into big decisions without this type of breakdown.


                It's over bar the shouting, at least until there is a more dangerous variant. It won't be easy to get all the restrictions stood down as quickly as they should be but I am optimistic that there will be a big shift starting immediately from the expiry date of the current restrictions on the 30th that will be signalled as soon as next week.

                Good luck with your tests before flying.
                Turning millions into thousands

                Comment


                  Originally posted by hotspur View Post
                  It's not an uncomplentary thing Lazare and it's not about you.

                  People were initially debating something about what the meaningfulness of what one man does has on men in general.

                  That is predicated on believing that there exists in the real world a thing called men. I would be inclined towards the view that there is not.

                  This issue is a very old one in philosophy called the problem of universals.

                  Apart from that, I agree with your suggestions on what someone can do. Not that I much do them myself, I do a bit, but I'm a delightful sprite who is of no visual threat to anyone.

                  Lastly, I think any full discussion of all of this could do with including how women use their sexuality. I happen to hold a view that I would prefer if we didn't live in a time and place where every other woman is wearing yoga pants etc.

                  But obviously now is that not the time for introducing that given what happened which is due to some dangerous nutjob.
                  Thank you. It's admittedly a difficult concept to understand.

                  What is reality if it's not in our thoughts and speech?

                  Am a little disappointed in the last bit of that post tbh. It's only from our point of view that it's sexuality that's being used. They're just wearing comfortable clothes.
                  I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Lazare View Post

                    Thank you. It's admittedly a difficult concept to understand.

                    What is reality if it's not in our thoughts and speech?

                    Am a little disappointed in the last bit of that post tbh. It's only from our point of view that it's sexuality that's being used. They're just wearing comfortable clothes.
                    Now you are applying double standards. You want us to be mindful of our impact on women, but you don't want women to be mindful of their impact of men, you can't have it both ways.

                    Men are just out for a walk. Women are just wearing comfortable clothes.

                    Tad inconsistent tbh.


                    No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity, but I know none, therefore am no beast.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by pokerhand View Post

                      Now you are applying double standards. You want us to be mindful of our impact on women, but you don't want women to be mindful of their impact of men, you can't have it both ways.

                      Men are just out for a walk. Women are just wearing comfortable clothes.

                      Tad inconsistent tbh.

                      You think women should dress in a way that doesn't sexually arouse you then?

                      It's her fault if she does?



                      Fucking hell.

                      Fucking. Hell.



                      ​​
                      I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Lazare View Post

                        You think women should dress in a way that doesn't sexually arouse you then?

                        It's her fault if she does?



                        Fucking hell.

                        Fucking. Hell.



                        ​​
                        Missing the point... I don't care how women dress nor should I. But you can't ask men to care about their impact on the opposite sex without asking women to care about their impact on the other sex, regardless of what it is.

                        Do you not get the double standards there?
                        Last edited by pokerhand; 15-01-22, 01:11.
                        No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity, but I know none, therefore am no beast.

                        Comment


                          Wife's going in for a colonoscopy in the morning so has had to take loads of laxative today. I could see all evening she was dying to have a conversation about just how much she was shitting, but I managed to send enough nods and appreciative sighs to indicate that I silently sympathise but just can't take on board your actual fecal explosions stories today.
                          "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                          Comment


                            Was interviewing a new person I'm hiring today, from Iran. A rather free flowing conversation as I've never thought to look up how to interview someone. My general approach is to just chitchat until they hopefully mention something about the job, at which point I go: oh yeah, what are your thoughts on that? To my credit, I've evolved over the years and now only 'interview' people after I've already made the decision to hire them based on prior recommendation.

                            Anyway, we were chatting away about Tehran and she was mentioning how it's a mad place underground. The conversation meandered into me talking about that cool guy from Iran from Boards Poker. I named him Ghadi out of immediate memory deficit. I was just saying how he left here to go back to Iran and doubled his debauchery. What was his name again?

                            I've managed to meet a lot of Iranians and as a default rule they are all ridiculously charming. It's a really unique cultural personality. I'm quite fascinated by it. There's no Iranian you could meet who is not weird, but great, in some way.

                            Remember seeing a stat a while ago about how Iran is the top five nation in terms of AI research. It'll never do them any good, but they're just doing it because who there gives a fuck, and why not use their brains for something mad.
                            "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                            Comment


                              Lads you need to re-read Lazare's posts about female fear and have a think about it again

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Lao Lao View Post



                                Talking the sister in law in Melbourne and she said the over riding feeling was embarrassment that he wasn't been allowed in and that majority wanted him to play the event and the people kicking up about were a very small but noisy minority.

                                Not sure if Sydney reaction is different?
                                As I said, I’m only back a week. So a small sample. But basing it on a small number of interactions, media/polls etc admittedly the latter could be loaded.

                                There would be a cohort in Melbourne who see the tennis as an important sporting event and that this cheapens it. I’d imagine the fans would value that over the covid rules.

                                Had a nice meal over the Christmas. Will do a trip report at some point in the review thread.
                                Last edited by Mellor; 15-01-22, 07:15.

                                Comment


                                  It’s mental (but not surprising) how much of the social media reaction to the murder is basically “so sad but how can I make this about me” plus all the baseless xenophobia re the initial suspect etc. social media needs to be regulated to the point of extinction

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                                    What was his name again?
                                    Gholimoli i think

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by pokerhand View Post

                                      Missing the point... I don't care how women dress nor should I. But you can't ask men to care about their impact on the opposite sex without asking women to care about their impact on the other sex, regardless of what it is.

                                      Do you not get the double standards there?
                                      Suggesting behaviour change from men while also telling women the clothes they were make them somewhat culpable is not avoiding double standards. It's ironic hypocrisy.
                                      ​​​
                                      Women can wear whatever the fuck they want. It's up to you to control your sexual urge.

                                      Women don't wear clothes with you mind.
                                      I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

                                      Comment


                                        How can you forget the legend that is Gholi
                                        I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

                                        Comment


                                          Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

                                          Are you describing a national problem with drinking or a national problem with men there?
                                          Just describing the only times i've ever felt slightly uneasy (or unsafe) which for me as a man would only occur at night. Obviously for women this can occur at any time of the day/night in far wider reaching circumstances.

                                          Comment


                                            Originally posted by Wombatman View Post

                                            Yeah. They are asking for it. Scheming on new way to "use their sexuality" to bamboozle men.

                                            Do you think they should cover up in the pool and at the beach too?
                                            Does that sound like being part of a full discussion that I said it would be in the context of i.e. looking at all the sociological conditions giving rise to idiot guys harassing women?

                                            I'm quite comfortable in my view that we live in a hypersexualised society that has numerous negative consequences. We get overly aroused generally in our society, and sexual arousal is part of it. I think our arousal society is problematic.

                                            And yes I think some part of that includes clothes worn. I know what it's like to spend weeks on retreat where all clothes worn by everyone are loose non-revealing clothes. And I have been surprised to notice the effect that has on preventing sexual thoughts and arousal. It goes down and down. Obviously there's no media too.

                                            I observe my mind states, and when I notice sexual orientated mind states arising when walking down the street in the city centre I know what conditions it. And it isn't the mere presence of women. I would prefer not to have this as what my mind is partially conditioned by.

                                            I'm a guy and what that entails, I don't always look away as much as I think I should, but some of it is objectively due to fashion choices that accentuate the appearance of sexual attractiveness.

                                            I appreciate that I'm unusual in this respect, of preferring to have a mind not conditioned by sensual desire left, right, and centre. And I'm not saying that women should or should not do anything that has to do with what I wish. I'm merely pointing out that there are consequences.

                                            For every person who wishes not to crave or grasp after such mental states there are ten thousand who will. Most just internally crave, but some will externally grasp (act).

                                            Anyway, I hope that gives more context to what I'm getting at.

                                            Comment


                                              Originally posted by paul8200 View Post
                                              Lads you need to re-read Lazare's posts about female fear and have a think about it again
                                              Have had a 40 year think about it. Not all women are innocent princesses i grew up with 4 sisters and went to a co ed school. I could tell you a thing or 2 . A lot of the arguments and disruption were caused by women. Has this made me a mysognist ? EVERYONE needs to respect each other more . However do not dismiss the part women play in their own fear and that of other women.

                                              I sm one of those guys Hotspur refers to. The struggle is real. Women do have a sexual power sometimes toxic sometimes intoxicating. We have to acknowledge that .

                                              Comment


                                                Originally posted by Lazare View Post
                                                How can you forget the legend that is Gholi
                                                Ehsan irl. Good player and great craic.
                                                "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                                                Comment


                                                  Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post

                                                  Ehsan irl. Good player and great craic.
                                                  How long ago was it that he was looking for an omaha player to stake in a private game in Iran? All sorts of colourful
                                                  characters in it. Only feels like a couple of years ago. Seem to remember him posting that the game got busted or finished anyway.

                                                  Comment


                                                    Was watching a segment of the LLS and one of the musicians practically spat out the phrase "victim of male violence" (referencing the murder) Quite a hostile phrase and made me feel a bit defensive tbh, like were all being lumped into the potential ogre category.
                                                    Meanwhile theres a murderer on the loose.

                                                    Strewel was correct I think, not the time to extend this further than a brutal murder at this point.


                                                    Comment


                                                      Originally posted by hotspur View Post

                                                      Does that sound like being part of a full discussion that I said it would be in the context of i.e. looking at all the sociological conditions giving rise to idiot guys harassing women?

                                                      I'm quite comfortable in my view that we live in a hypersexualised society that has numerous negative consequences. We get overly aroused generally in our society, and sexual arousal is part of it. I think our arousal society is problematic.

                                                      And yes I think some part of that includes clothes worn. I know what it's like to spend weeks on retreat where all clothes worn by everyone are loose non-revealing clothes. And I have been surprised to notice the effect that has on preventing sexual thoughts and arousal. It goes down and down. Obviously there's no media too.

                                                      I observe my mind states, and when I notice sexual orientated mind states arising when walking down the street in the city centre I know what conditions it. And it isn't the mere presence of women. I would prefer not to have this as what my mind is partially conditioned by.

                                                      I'm a guy and what that entails, I don't always look away as much as I think I should, but some of it is objectively due to fashion choices that accentuate the appearance of sexual attractiveness.

                                                      I appreciate that I'm unusual in this respect, of preferring to have a mind not conditioned by sensual desire left, right, and centre. And I'm not saying that women should or should not do anything that has to do with what I wish. I'm merely pointing out that there are consequences.

                                                      For every person who wishes not to crave or grasp after such mental states there are ten thousand who will. Most just internally crave, but some will externally grasp (act).

                                                      Anyway, I hope that gives more context to what I'm getting at.
                                                      Consequences?

                                                      Ok, let's accept the idea that a woman’s choice of outfit can make her responsible for her own assault. For the sake of discussion, let's accept that women can dress in a way that causes such a powerful sexual arousal response in a man, he’s stimulated beyond the limits of his self-control. The woman made the decision to look like she does, the man didn’t have any choice about becoming so aroused, so the fault lies with her. Legally, this doesn’t work at all, but let's not worry about that for now.

                                                      So where do we go from here. Why don't we men come up with a dress code for women in everyday settings. Problem solved. Any ideas on what types of outfits might be acceptable lads?


                                                      Then again a woman may choose to wear an alluring outfit, but it’s still the man’s choice to grope her without permission or invitation. No?

                                                      Sexual arousal may be a powerful thing, but as you know, the brain has many processes that counter it. When you’re aroused or excited by an opportunity, particularly a sexual one, which won’t have great long-term consequences, the brain is capable of kicking in and saying “this isn’t a good idea, don’t do it”. The brain can determine the appropriateness of arousal in context too. Beautiful naked person standing before you in your bedroom? Sure, be aroused. Beautiful naked person standing before you in the supermarket, clutching a large knife? “Sexy fun time” is the wrong response here.

                                                      Let's deal with the real issue, men's inappropriate behavior, and not try "to cover it up".
                                                      Last edited by Wombatman; 15-01-22, 11:41.
                                                      Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

                                                      Comment


                                                        Originally posted by dinekes View Post
                                                        Strewel was correct I think, not the time to extend this further than a brutal murder at this point.
                                                        100%. We don't even know who the murderer is or have any idea of what their motive was (quite likely the victim may just have been the classic person in the wrong place at the wrong time - and could just as easily been a man) yet the conversation has rapidly veered off into 'all men need to change'.

                                                        Maybe 'all homicidal maniacs need to change' might be a better topic.
                                                        "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                                                        Comment


                                                          Sigh.

                                                          Have to say this is pretty frustrating. How really smart guys have trouble grasping a point.

                                                          This murder has shone a light on a wider issue. Women's perception of risk, and their fears. On reflection I don't think SP is correct to say it's not the time to discuss it. It's absolutely the time.

                                                          The fact that Ashling Murphy was running during daylight hours has shone the light and made the wider topic of women's safety a talking point.

                                                          I'm making a simple point. Reaching out to good guys like all of you to be aware of that perception of risk and realise you can contribute to it if you don't have that awareness. To just be mindful of it in certain situations.

                                                          Depressing me a little that I'm meeting a lot of resistance and only two guys here have backed me up.

                                                          You won't change the behaviour of dangerous scumbags. I'm not interested in them.



                                                          I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

                                                          Comment


                                                            I spoke to a woman at parkrun this morning who was telling me she was followed by a guy on her run in Corkagh park a couple of months ago. A woman she knows was attacked in the same park last year.

                                                            Dobby yesterday mentioned he witnessed some creep tracking his sister.

                                                            Yes the perception of risk outweighs the risk itself but not by an awful lot.
                                                            I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

                                                            Comment


                                                              Triple sigh . If we werent being bombarded on every current form of media at the moment id say we need to raise awateness . However ....

                                                              Other subject.
                                                              Anyone any pointers to cure my increasing fear of flying. Despite 100s of flights i think im getting worse . Not hypnosis though. Only Britney in a mini skirt can do that. (Oooops)

                                                              Comment


                                                                Wombatman I am not talking about women being assaulted, you are. I think I have made it clear that I'm not talking about that, but that I'm talking about a wider point. I said in my first post this wasn't a good time to talk about it. Because there'll be people like you who will just relate it what was in the news.

                                                                I can't tell if I have been unclear or you're only reading what your want to read. But with respect I don't wish to spend any more time on it.

                                                                Comment


                                                                  Originally posted by Solksjaer! View Post
                                                                  Triple sigh . If we werent being bombarded on every current form of media at the moment id say we need to raise awateness . However ....
                                                                  But why so defensive? Feels like what I'm suggesting is threatening somehow.

                                                                  Why not 'Yeah, good point, I do those things myself, hopefully now more lads will that haven't realised'?

                                                                  Am I being condescending?
                                                                  I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    Originally posted by Lazare View Post

                                                                    I'm making a simple point. Reaching out to good guys like all of you to be aware of that perception of risk and realise you can contribute to it if you don't have that awareness. To just be mindful of it in certain situations.

                                                                    Depressing me a little that I'm meeting a lot of resistance and only two guys here have backed me up.

                                                                    I'm not sure you're getting much resistance to that particular point though? I agree with you for what it's worth, anything to ease the perception of risk is good, crossing streets etc. I think most "good guys" do that anyway though.

                                                                    The problem is that none of that changes actual risk or actual crime though.

                                                                    The examples that the likes of Dobby and Tar have mentioned are truly depressing, shocking really. I think the problem is that these people know they will get away with it. They need to be brought to account for their actions - how though is the problem.

                                                                    Comment


                                                                      It's the only point I've been making.
                                                                      I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

                                                                      Comment


                                                                        I also think it's fanciful to believe all or most good guys have awareness of this.
                                                                        I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          Originally posted by Lazare View Post

                                                                          But why so defensive? Feels like what I'm suggesting is threatening somehow.

                                                                          Why not 'Yeah, good point, I do those things myself, hopefully now more lads will that haven't realised'?

                                                                          Am I being condescending?
                                                                          Maybe....you're wrong?

                                                                          Just a possibility.
                                                                          "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            Originally posted by Lazare View Post

                                                                            But why so defensive? Feels like what I'm suggesting is threatening somehow.

                                                                            Why not 'Yeah, good point, I do those things myself, hopefully now more lads will that haven't realised'?

                                                                            Am I being condescending?
                                                                            Already do as yiu suggest . Not enough somehow .
                                                                            My broader feelings on the subject as discarded so the narrative is tedious to me. Like i said WE KNOW

                                                                            Not a bit defensive though as im an enabler for the women in my life so im not the target in my view .

                                                                            Comment


                                                                              Originally posted by Lazare View Post
                                                                              I also think it's fanciful to believe all or most good guys have awareness of this.
                                                                              For me anyway (husband, father of two girls), I think my behaviour towards women is both respectful and appropriate and I have no intention of changing it.
                                                                              "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                                                                              Comment


                                                                                Wimmun drivers eh theyd drive you to violence. Never let you out

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                  Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post

                                                                                  For me anyway (husband, father of two girls), I think my behaviour towards women is both respectful and appropriate and I have no intention of changing it.
                                                                                  As is likely the case with all of us, and fair play.

                                                                                  Maybe I am preaching mostly to the choir in here, or maybe it will land with soneone. It's certainly not a waste of my time.
                                                                                  I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                    Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post

                                                                                    For me anyway (husband, father of two girls), I think my behaviour towards women is both respectful and appropriate and I have no intention of changing it.
                                                                                    When you say above that perhaps I'm wrong, what I'm trying to do is encourage guys to be like you. They mostly are anyway, but I don't think that makes it futile.
                                                                                    I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                      Originally posted by hotspur View Post
                                                                                      Wombatman I am not talking about women being assaulted, you are. I think I have made it clear that I'm not talking about that, but that I'm talking about a wider point. I said in my first post this wasn't a good time to talk about it. Because there'll be people like you who will just relate it what was in the news.

                                                                                      I can't tell if I have been unclear or you're only reading what your want to read. But with respect I don't wish to spend any more time on it.
                                                                                      We all due respect I though we were discussing an aspect of "the sociological conditions giving rise to idiot guys harassing women", namely how women present themselves and how it my lead to negative consequences for them. I don't share your belief that we live in a society where the general levels of arousal are problematic but that's another discussion. That said I believe we are still valiantly struggling with aspects of our sexual nature and making blundering progress.

                                                                                      I think the suggestion that I have gone off on some random tangent is unfair. If you don't want to address the points I have raised, fair enough, but don't dress it up as something else (excuse the unintentional pun).
                                                                                      Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                        Originally posted by Dice75 View Post

                                                                                        Just describing the only times i've ever felt slightly uneasy (or unsafe) which for me as a man would only occur at night. Obviously for women this can occur at any time of the day/night in far wider reaching circumstances.
                                                                                        Its just the obvious culprit of drinking in your story is widely defended as a charming national characteristic. Yet, it seems the nub of the problem. ... if we are looking for solutions.
                                                                                        "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                          Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

                                                                                          Its just the obvious culprit of drinking in your story is widely defended as a charming national characteristic. Yet, it seems the nub of the problem. ... if we are looking for solutions.
                                                                                          Your comment about mixed schooling was the best long term solution I've heard.

                                                                                          It's a similar thing in Northern Ireland. Mixed religious schooling is the key to a long term solution.
                                                                                          I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                            Getting rid of single gender schools is a solution, as it removes the sense of otherness that pervades Irish societal approaches to genders.

                                                                                            Reducing the culture of excessive drinking is a solution, as it reduces the high-risk times of bad behaviour.

                                                                                            Lighting up walking areas is a good short-term solution, as it increases visibility of potential risks.

                                                                                            Crossing the road is a horrible solution that ingrains fear and distance, and doesn't address underlying causes. Indeed it increases the sense of difference between the genders - which is precisely what we need to address. The risk of quick solutions is that they end up doing more harm than good, when we don't take the time to think through their unintended consequences.

                                                                                            Now it probably still needs to be done, as its a direct ask of the opposite gender. But I think its the wrong way of approaching things.
                                                                                            "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                              Originally posted by Lazare View Post

                                                                                              Your comment about mixed schooling was the best long term solution I've heard.

                                                                                              It's a similar thing in Northern Ireland. Mixed religious schooling is the key to a long term solution.
                                                                                              Yeah, I saw a story about that yesterday actually - it seems its still not really still a thing in the North! I guess because the religious schools are still 'the best' schools.
                                                                                              "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                                Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

                                                                                                Its just the obvious culprit of drinking in your story is widely defended as a charming national characteristic. Yet, it seems the nub of the problem. ... if we are looking for solutions.
                                                                                                To me blaming drink is a bit of a cop out. Sure, alcohol changes us all, we do stupid things at times. But shite like we are talking about is a personality trait. Drink just doesn’t turn a normally good person to suddenly abuse women (or anyone)

                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                  Good posts Hitch. I don't really agree about short term mitigation being harmful or contributing to segregation.

                                                                                                  In my own experience whenever I cross the street or run onto the road the woman tends to notice and realise why I've done it. I almost always get an appreciative nod or a good morning.
                                                                                                  I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

                                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                                    Maybe the solution then is for groups of friends to have a word with the friend who consistently becomes inappropriate after too many beers. Although that doesn't fix the problem where all the group of friends turn inappropriate! Maybe also there's a fine line between Dutch courage and inappropriate. There's acceptable behaviour in Coppers that wouldn't pan out well in the workplace.
                                                                                                    "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                                      Originally posted by Lazare View Post

                                                                                                      Suggesting behaviour change from men while also telling women the clothes they were make them somewhat culpable is not avoiding double standards. It's ironic hypocrisy.
                                                                                                      ​​​
                                                                                                      Women can wear whatever the fuck they want. It's up to you to control your sexual urge.

                                                                                                      Women don't wear clothes with you mind.
                                                                                                      Not my point tbh.

                                                                                                      I love to debate this as it is a interesting topics. But I tried to formulate a response but this medium is not really the most suitable for this as hard to put down one thoughts properly. I half started a response 6 times but gave up as hard to be concise as points can go across badly.

                                                                                                      I don't disagree with your initial point by the way, men behaviours do need to change i.e. crossing the streets etc... But why stop there, we should be calling out on women sexual objectification where we see it so to cut it down as it absolutely rampant, even on here.

                                                                                                      For example, someone made a joke about needing a picture of laz's wife running to make a judgement call. Yes it was a joke, but I didn't see anyone calling him out on. Asking for a woman picture is a fairly common joke here and permitted with nobody calling them out. If we were serious about challenging men behaviours, why do nobody call these out? As long as these jokes continue we are silently saying sexual objectification is ok.

                                                                                                      It is a terrible indictment of us tbf but sadly it is a reality of the society we live in and as long as we live in that type of society women do need to be aware of that and dress accordingly to reduce the perceived risk to themselves. They do anyway, when they they pick out an outfit to wear, in the same way men do when they consider if the clothing they select is appropriate for whatever the occasion is, the risk is a factor they do consider.

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                                                                                                      Last edited by pokerhand; 15-01-22, 15:02.
                                                                                                      No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity, but I know none, therefore am no beast.

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                                                                                                        Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                                                                                                        Maybe the solution then is for groups of friends to have a word with the friend who consistently becomes inappropriate after too many beers. Although that doesn't fix the problem where all the group of friends turn inappropriate! Maybe also there's a fine line between Dutch courage and inappropriate. There's acceptable behaviour in Coppers that wouldn't pan out well in the workplace.
                                                                                                        I thought that was what for the main was being asked for lads to reel their friends in. Stop pinching arses, leering at women or shouting at them on the street. A pretty low bar really and 99% of men over 25 are already there with a big smile recent age of those under it too.

                                                                                                        Obv there are loud fringe voices on Twitter asking for a lot more extreme things and painting all men as drooling out of control sex pests - possibly as a result of bad interactions with terrible men.

                                                                                                        Big changes in education for teenage boys around consent and respect for women which wasn’t part of it when I was young. The next generation should be better than ours as a result.

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                                                                                                          Good post pokerhand. I hope I don't offend you with this but sometimes you make clumsily worded posts, but then again that could be a me thing, in terms of comprehending your point.

                                                                                                          I 100% disagree with the notion that women should be careful how they dress though. This is not on them at all. Should a female runner not wear shorts for instance? A girl in a gym, should she not wear lycra, typical workout wear?

                                                                                                          Women don't typically wear clothes to be sexualky attractive. They wear them to be comfortable, or to feel good about themselves.

                                                                                                          It's absolutely wrong to suggest they should change those behaviours to limit male advances. The fact that it causes unwanted attention is not on them to fix.
                                                                                                          I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

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                                                                                                            Oh, with regard to Ole's joke, I knew exactly where it was coming from. It was funny irony, typical Irish 'lighten the mood' humour.

                                                                                                            I think that's ok and wouldn't pull him up on it. I laughed at it.

                                                                                                            There are jokes we need to maybe begin pulling people up on. I don't feel that was one of them.
                                                                                                            I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

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                                                                                                              By they way Laz your point struck a chord with me as that is something I have done for pretty much most of my life ie keeping my distance from strange women, expecially on buses, when I go on a bus I go out of my way to avoid sitting beside women unless they are grandmother types. I have always being conscious of that, and it always saddens me that I have to be that conscious, but it is a reality of the society we are in

                                                                                                              WHich reminded me of something that happened about 20 years ago in Dublin when I was a student. Was sitting on the back row of the lower level of a double bus when this women hopped on and sat near me. She was in her 40s with massive bruises all over her face and under her eyes. Her bruises were maybe a couple days old and the whole time on my trip she sat alone and was crying silently. I must have been on that bus with her for 30 mins or so till I got to my stop but not once person approached her to ask if she was ok or if they could help. I didn't do anything myself as was honestly not sure what was the best thing to do as wasnt even sure then how I could help.


                                                                                                              No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity, but I know none, therefore am no beast.

                                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                                                Originally posted by Lazare View Post
                                                                                                                Good post pokerhand. I hope I don't offend you with this but sometimes you make clumsily worded posts, but then again that could be a me thing, in terms of comprehending your point.

                                                                                                                I 100% disagree with the notion that women should be careful how they dress though. This is not on them at all. Should a female runner not wear shorts for instance? A girl in a gym, should she not wear lycra, typical workout wear?

                                                                                                                Women don't typically wear clothes to be sexualky attractive. They wear them to be comfortable, or to feel good about themselves.

                                                                                                                It's absolutely wrong to suggest they should change those behaviours to limit male advances. The fact that it causes unwanted attention is not on them to fix.
                                                                                                                Oh I know I make clumsily posts, which is why I say this is not the best medium. It s tiring having to make proper posts which is why I take some shortcuts and hence my points don't come across properly. Also it is a pain the arse typing it out letter by letter on the phone just using the two bloody thumbs.

                                                                                                                Hope didn't cause offence as none was intended.
                                                                                                                No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity, but I know none, therefore am no beast.

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                                                                                                                  I don't want to live in a world where we can't ask laz for pics of his wife.
                                                                                                                  "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

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                                                                                                                    Originally posted by Lazare View Post
                                                                                                                    Good post pokerhand. I hope I don't offend you with this but sometimes you make clumsily worded posts, but then again that could be a me thing, in terms of comprehending your point.

                                                                                                                    I 100% disagree with the notion that women should be careful how they dress though. This is not on them at all. Should a female runner not wear shorts for instance? A girl in a gym, should she not wear lycra, typical workout wear?

                                                                                                                    Women don't typically wear clothes to be sexualky attractive. They wear them to be comfortable, or to feel good about themselves.

                                                                                                                    It's absolutely wrong to suggest they should change those behaviours to limit male advances. The fact that it causes unwanted attention is not on them to fix.
                                                                                                                    I agree with this, and yet found hotspurs long post this morning quite fascinating. Its a really interesting perspective.
                                                                                                                    "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                                                      Originally posted by Lazare View Post
                                                                                                                      Good post pokerhand. I hope I don't offend you with this but sometimes you make clumsily worded posts, but then again that could be a me thing, in terms of comprehending your point.

                                                                                                                      I 100% disagree with the notion that women should be careful how they dress though. This is not on them at all. Should a female runner not wear shorts for instance? A girl in a gym, should she not wear lycra, typical workout wear?

                                                                                                                      Women don't typically wear clothes to be sexualky attractive. They wear them to be comfortable, or to feel good about themselves.

                                                                                                                      It's absolutely wrong to suggest they should change those behaviours to limit male advances. The fact that it causes unwanted attention is not on them to fix.
                                                                                                                      Can we spin that arguement from the other point of view. Why should men cross street to make the woman feel safer. The average man is just there for a walk and not to sexually objectify women, so why should he change his behaviour, as it not his fault how that woman perceive men.

                                                                                                                      That where I would have thought make sense, both men and women should change or neither of them do. Just seems unfair to be asking just one set to change.

                                                                                                                      ​​​​​​
                                                                                                                      No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity, but I know none, therefore am no beast.

                                                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                                                                                                                        I don't want to live in a world where we can't ask laz for pics of his wife.
                                                                                                                        Why do you want a picture of Laz's wife, why don't you want a picture of Laz himself?
                                                                                                                        No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity, but I know none, therefore am no beast.

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                                                                                                                          I'm looking to buy a Buddhist statue from the UK as a present for someone. It'll be over three hundred quid, and I was looking for a way to get it without all the customs and double vat paying etc. which jack up the cost to the point of not being viable.

                                                                                                                          So I thought to get it sent to the North, but I don't know anyone in the North, so I found a place in Derry that acts like a Parcel Motel type thing.

                                                                                                                          It sounds like a classy operation, one option people have in Donegal is to pick their package up in Buncrana in a car park one evening from 6:10-6:20pm.
                                                                                                                          I would advise caution buying statues and pictures for people mostly because they are very picky about what they want to display in their home(particularly the other half nudge nudge wink wink). Size matters and the smaller the better in this respect.
                                                                                                                          Let me tell you I once bought a framed Laurent Fignon picture for my brother for his new house. Fast forward a few years later I seen the picture in the largely unused box room on the ground leaning against the wall. I didnt ask.

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