Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - Wordle Gummidge

[Raoul Duke III]

Yeah you've probably never experienced women actually scream with freight when they unexpectedly bump into you. Happened to me a few times in work; think it was mostly the motorcycle gear in an office.

If you were in your courier gear then this is a most delicious typo.

[hotspur]

Really great to hear your friend brought up the conversation. Guys seem to be talking about it and thinking about it en masse. That's brilliant.

I dunno... Was he Ted Bundy by any chance?

This is eerily close to what happened next. Now my friend is actually gay but I too thought about Ted Bundy when he said it. So it went "...lower her guard you know". "Yeah...and then bang! Into the boot of the car!"

The last bit was regrettably me.

[ComradeCollie]

If you were in your courier gear then this is a most delicious typo.

Ha. I'd love to pretend it was a Freudian slip, but it's just a typo!

[Theresa]

Yeah you've probably never experienced women actually scream with freight when they unexpectedly bump into you. Happened to me a few times in work; think it was mostly the motorcycle gear in an office.

What were they transporting?

[dobby]

One at parkrun this morning too.

Perfectly observed in Mallow at a club final I was at. Great to see an entire country come together after such tragedy.

[Solksjaer!]

If you were in your courier gear then this is a most delicious typo.

And back to Ted Bundy .

[Emmet]

ah this has all moved miles passed where I left it. Lazare you realise that the Kentuckian crossing the street to avoid the black man was from fear, not hatred right?

Ill founded to consider all black men a threat, just as considering all men a threat also seems a bit of a blunt instrument.

[Solksjaer!]

Worked as a night Porter in a hotel in Galway during the summer after my leaving cert a long time ago. Sexual assault by hen parties came with the job but never by the hot one.

Hardly hear them called out for it. I'd be lying if i said in the 90s that it was unwelcome but still those gals are probably singing from the rooftops about their 'male fear' .

[Emmet]

Also I think it's pretty patronising of women in general, and also weirdly arrogant to suggest that men should believe that they will be perceived as a threat, and go out of their way to avoid this - making it clear etc.

Just get on with your life, don't be a dick etc. And as Andy said, if anyone's thinking about doing something fucking ridiculous, don't.

[Emmet]

Lads you need to re-read Lazare's posts about female fear and have a think about it again

Fear is a personal response, can be rational, irrational, well founded, ill founded. Hotspur almost certainly the best placed person to discuss fear ITT, but I'm confident that most approaches to addressing fear surround improving understanding of the fearer of the risks, and helping them to understand and manage that response better.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

This is eerily close to what happened next. Now my friend is actually gay but I too thought about Ted Bundy when he said it. So it went "...lower her guard you know". "Yeah...and then bang! Into the boot of the car!"

The last bit was regrettably me.

[Strewelpeter]

I'm quite comfortable in my view that we live in a hypersexualised society that has numerous negative consequences. We get overly aroused generally in our society, and sexual arousal is part of it. I think our arousal society is problematic.

And yes I think some part of that includes clothes worn. I know what it's like to spend weeks on retreat where all clothes worn by everyone are loose non-revealing clothes. And I have been surprised to notice the effect that has on preventing sexual thoughts and arousal. It goes down and down. Obviously there's no media too.

I observe my mind states, and when I notice sexual orientated mind states arising when walking down the street in the city centre I know what conditions it. And it isn't the mere presence of women. I would prefer not to have this as what my mind is partially conditioned by.

I'm a guy and what that entails, I don't always look away as much as I think I should, but some of it is objectively due to fashion choices that accentuate the appearance of sexual attractiveness.

I appreciate that I'm unusual in this respect, of preferring to have a mind not conditioned by sensual desire left, right, and centre. And I'm not saying that women should or should not do anything that has to do with what I wish. I'm merely pointing out that there are consequences.

For every person who wishes not to crave or grasp after such mental states there are ten thousand who will. Most just internally crave, but some will externally grasp (act).

Anyway, I hope that gives more context to what I'm getting at.

Such a great post.

I remember flying out of Iran after being there over a month and once the seat belt sign went out the drinks trolley went round and while everyone else was filling up on booze I was very conscious of how wonderful it was just to see the shape of the human female after a month of all of them wearing tent like chador.

I don't really have any understanding of why one might want to deny or repress such feelings that I would see as quite normal. Perhaps you are saying that in what you see as a hypersexualised society the problem is something like sensory overload rather than something innately wrong with the feelings?

[Strewelpeter]

Some amazing images from the volcanic activity in the Pacific this morning

[Solksjaer!]

Bad PR for the lotto when 1 winner finally takes it down. The 149 plus the bonus will be happy.

Hope it was a man that won it anyway

[Degag]

Home from pub, channel still on BT since earlier. WWE on.

God almighty, tis so bad compared to when i used watch it 15-20 years ago. Then you had Stone Cold, Triple H, Undertaker (my favourite). Is Vince McMahon still alive? Would have to wonder

[Mellor]

Convincing guys to stop leering isn’t going to replace women’s need to be careful.

Not to say we should’t push for less leering but assault, rape or murder isn’t because of bad manners.

I haven’t read the discussion on this. But I don’t imagine Laz was making a connection from leering to attacks. The effect on attacks themselves is tiny. But if leering is stopped, it means a) warning signs of an attack isn’t mistaken for “everyday leering” and b) women don’t spent a large amount of the time uncomfortable day to day.

[Degag]

Looking up the lotto results. More than 186,000 people won €9.

Which equates to €1.7m ish

17 people could have 100k or 170 people could have 10k. The former can be a life changing amount depending on different factors. The latter is a nice few bob too.

€9 helps no one.

I honestly don't get it (i don't have my commercial (or any other) hat on)

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

I use usenet nzbs for 99% of my downloading. Is that what everyone else still uses, or is there some fancy new thing?

[Lazare]

ah this has all moved miles passed where I left it. Lazare you realise that the Kentuckian crossing the street to avoid the black man was from fear, not hatred right?

Ill founded to consider all black men a threat, just as considering all men a threat also seems a bit of a blunt instrument.

Emmet, given how smart a guy you are I can't wrap my head around how you can make this comparison.

The Kentuckian's fear is simple racism. He lives in a deeply flawed society with complex historical nuances that shape his racism.

If anything your comparative example in that scenario should be the black man's experience.

White Kentuckian fears aren't justifiable, they're based on prejudicial fantasy.

Women's fears are based on reality and lived experience.

Maybe take a look at this video. Watch it first from the lads perspective, and think about how often you've seen this sort of thing.

Then watch it from the girl's pov..

Maybe then think about whether the white Kentuckian experiences a similar fear when encountering black folk

[Lazare]

Such a shit night tonight. Baby is like a duracell bunny lately. Just won't go to sleep.

Had really good dry aged burgers lined up and made some lovely home made wedges. Wife texted me 10 mins into the 50 min wedges to say it wasn't happening and could I come up and give it a go.

An agonising hour later, 10:15pm and I'm firing up the BBQ.

Burgers and thick sliced onions onto the grill and back inside to prep everything else.

Went out to flip them and the fucking BBQ was on fire. Like massive flames. Didn't empty the drip tray and it's well overdue a clean.

Took the burgers off and stuck the skillet on, dumped the onions and cut new ones with my new knife. Sliced my thumb. Blood on the onions. Fucking knife is sharp. As gay as it is.

Finally sat down and ate at about 10:45pm. Haven't sat down since 11am.

Finished the burger and wedges and looked forward to slumping on the couch when the 7 year old started crying. She had watched some scary YouTube vid with the neighbour's kid earlier and was scared. Up to comfort her and the 4 year old starts howling. Wife up to comfort that one. Another 45 mins sitting in the dark trying to get a kid off to sleep. My Saturday night, my only truly relaxing night, evaporating before my eyes.

Kids.

Loving every minute.

This is one of those nights that will look great through rose tinted glasses.

[dobby]

That post is a form of contraception.

[Lazare]

Gerrup

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

Emmet, given how smart a guy you are I can't wrap my head around how you can make this comparison.

The Kentuckian's fear is simple racism. He lives in a deeply flawed society with complex historical nuances that shape his racism.

If anything your comparative example in that scenario should be the black man's experience.

White Kentuckian fears aren't justifiable, they're based on prejudicial fantasy.

Women's fears are based on reality and lived experience.

Maybe take a look at this video. Watch it first from the lads perspective, and think about how often you've seen this sort of thing.

Then watch it from the girl's pov..

Maybe then think about whether the white Kentuckian experiences a similar fear when encountering black folk

I won't get into it, given your night, but isn't most crime committed by black people in the US.

Its not a racial thing obv, its an economic thing, that they don't have the same chances and so end up in the poorest section of society. And crime, naturally, emerges, from the poorest section of society. Theres probably more reason to fear economic crime than sexual crime, as its vastly more prevalent, and often has violence attached.

But yet - and this gets at emmets point - you might have a much higher probabilistic reason to cross the street in his case. Yet its obviously vastly wrong. Theres some sort of disconnect between your two points. emmet is both making sense and you are broadly making sense, its just your disagreement with emmet is wrong, he's made a perfectly valid comparison.

[Lazare]

How is it possible for 'Not a winning ticket' to pop up after spending 30 quid.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

Peacemaker is starting very strong. There's something about the physique of John Cena that is ridiculously funny.

[Lazare]

I won't get into it, given your night, but isn't most crime committed by black people in the US.

Its not a racial thing obv, its an economic thing, that they don't have the same chances and so end up in the poorest section of society. And crime, naturally, emerges, from the poorest section of society. Theres probably more reason to fear economic crime than sexual crime, as its vastly more prevalent, and often has violence attached.

But yet - and this gets at emmets point - you might have a much higher probabilistic reason to cross the street in his case. Yet its obviously vastly wrong. Theres some sort of disconnect between your two points. emmet is both making sense and you are broadly making sense, its just your disagreement with emmet is wrong, he's made a perfectly valid comparison.

That's all true. I'd still argue though that it's racism.

The difference here, and why I don't think the situations are comparable is one of privilege.

Remembering that this whole thing centres on me suggesting that good men can instil fear in women and that the onus is on us to mitigate that fear.

Asking a black man in America to modify his behaviour to appease a white man is stepping on his neck.

Asking a man to modify his behaviour to appease a woman is asking him to endure a minor inconvenience.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

That's all true. I'd still argue though that it's racism.

The difference here, and why I don't think the situations are comparable is one of privilege.

Remembering that this whole thing centres on me suggesting that good men can instil fear in women and that the onus is on us to mitigate that fear.

Asking a black man in America to modify his behaviour to appease a white man is stepping on his neck.

Asking a man to modify his behaviour to appease a woman is asking him to endure a minor inconvenience.

Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with you, fundamentally. I just think that, from what I've seen elsewhere, there's an unusually high level of fear in Ireland, and further segregating the genders is likely to emphasise that more rather than solve it. As it upgrades it to a *feature* of Irish society. That the rest of Europe is largely able to walk around together, but there's something so flawed about Irish men that they can't be trusted to be on the same pathway as Irish women. I don't think that's true. Thats not the way other countries behave, so whats wrong with us? or maybe we are overreacting? And I don't think its a good idea to ingrain this level of difference - as it acts to create distance and misunderstanding.

Now, I've evolved a fair bit over the years and would say I'm a very positive ally towards women now (that may not be obvious from my posting on here, but I feel it is true in reality) and use my position to overcome gender barriers very consciously, so all I'm doing here is suggesting a behavioral thing - that more distance fundamentally doesn't solve the problem of people thinking along gender lines, it emphasises the gender line, we need to work on being comfortable with closeness not distance.

[Hectorjelly]

Just a quick point because I can't help myself, but Emmets analogy would only be helpful if Muslims also controlled the majority of the positions of power in Ireland, wrote most of the laws that govern our society etc, it's pretty misleading otherwise. A much more accurate analogy would be the fate of a religious minority in a country where they hold little power and have a long history of being persecuted.

[Solksjaer!]

Just a quick point because I can't help myself, but Emmets analogy would only be helpful if Muslims also controlled the majority of the positions of power in Ireland, wrote most of the laws that govern our society etc, it's pretty misleading otherwise. A much more accurate analogy would be the fate of a religious minority in a country where they hold little power and have a long history of being persecuted.

About 20 years too late with this one girl.

[Solksjaer!]

Without looking it up can you tell me the male equivalent of Misogyny .

[Emmet]

Just a quick point because I can't help myself, but Emmets analogy would only be helpful if Muslims also controlled the majority of the positions of power in Ireland, wrote most of the laws that govern our society etc, it's pretty misleading otherwise. A much more accurate analogy would be the fate of a religious minority in a country where they hold little power and have a long history of being persecuted.

Okay, so analogies are impossible because there's no identikit comparison anywhere else to this. That's some steep requirements for an analogy you're looking for!

[Lazare]

Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with you, fundamentally. I just think that, from what I've seen elsewhere, there's an unusually high level of fear in Ireland, and further segregating the genders is likely to emphasise that more rather than solve it. As it upgrades it to a *feature* of Irish society. That the rest of Europe is largely able to walk around together, but there's something so flawed about Irish men that they can't be trusted to be on the same pathway as Irish women. I don't think that's true. Thats not the way other countries behave, so whats wrong with us? or maybe we are overreacting? And I don't think its a good idea to ingrain this level of difference - as it acts to create distance and misunderstanding.

Now, I've evolved a fair bit over the years and would say I'm a very positive ally towards women now (that may not be obvious from my posting on here, but I feel it is true in reality) and use my position to overcome gender barriers very consciously, so all I'm doing here is suggesting a behavioral thing - that more distance fundamentally doesn't solve the problem of people thinking along gender lines, it emphasises the gender line, we need to work on being comfortable with closeness not distance.

Yeah, that's a very good argument. Working on closeness seems a long game. Things like mixed schooling the way to start.

We're a way off it when you have things like those Westboro Baptist style cunts in Limerick disrupting a vigil. Or radio presenters getting threats for talking about the problem.

Then you have thousands of men like Solks who feel threatened by the topic and don't realise a little bit of feminism won't shrink their balls.

[Raoul Duke III]

Just a quick point because I can't help myself, but Emmets analogy would only be helpful if Muslims also controlled the majority of the positions of power in Ireland, wrote most of the laws that govern our society etc, it's pretty misleading otherwise. A much more accurate analogy would be the fate of a religious minority in a country where they hold little power and have a long history of being persecuted.

Aren't African Americans represented politically in more or less the same proportion as their numbers in the overall population? (there was a black President from 2008-16 remember)

It's Asian Americans and Latinos who are massively under-represented.

[Emmet]

Emmet, given how smart a guy you are I can't wrap my head around how you can make this comparison.

The Kentuckian's fear is simple racism. He lives in a deeply flawed society with complex historical nuances that shape his racism.

If anything your comparative example in that scenario should be the black man's experience.

Why?

You've asked us to consider fear, and he is afraid. Because of the society he lives in, the news he consumes, the stories (lived experiences?) he's heard of problems etc, he's genuinely far more aware and afraid of random black people than he would be a random white person.

I would consider those ill founded fears, but I don't get to decide his fears

And then it gets worse for your argument, because if we do look to objective statistics and trends in crime in Kentucky, he is 'right' insofar as the relative likelihood of violent crime being higher. Hitch nails it above though, this isn't a race thing, it's socio-economic-status being the #1 confounding variable.

White Kentuckian fears aren't justifiable, they're based on prejudicial fantasy.

Women's fears are based on reality and lived experience.

Maybe take a look at this video. Watch it first from the lads perspective, and think about how often you've seen this sort of thing.

Then watch it from the girl's pov..

Maybe then think about whether the white Kentuckian experiences a similar fear when encountering black folk

Let's think about this for a second. You've told us that the guy above isn't allowed to think and fear as he does, because his argument isn't based on objectivity. But I would be completely certain, and ready to be proved wrong, that a person on a street in KY is at a far higher risk of violent crime from a black person than any woman would be at risk from a random male on a street in Ireland. I would say there's orders of magnitude in the difference.

So the objective figures will unfortunately speak to backing up his philosophy far more than the female risk stats here. The "prejudicial fantasy" comment is a double edged sword here, revealing the cognitive dissonance at play.

I've tried to show you earlier by the problem of moving the conversation to perception of risk vs actual risk, is that you can't control anyone's perception of risk. You can help, and educate, and reason, but you can't actually prevent anyone from being afraid of anything. It's an impossible metric to base anything on!

[Emmet]

Didn't win the lotto.

Loada shite

[Solksjaer!]

Yeah, that's a very good argument. Working on closeness seems a long game. Things like mixed schooling the way to start.

We're a way off it when you have things like those Westboro Baptist style cunts in Limerick disrupting a vigil. Or radio presenters getting threats for talking about the problem.

Then you have thousands of men like Solks who feel threatened by the topic and don't realise a little bit of feminism won't shrink their balls.

You really got me figured out . Doubt there is one female in my life who thinks that . You on the other hand are obsessed with the topic much like the brow beating OTT going on at the moment. I use actions instead of words , if the 1000s of men you refer to were more like me , we wouldnt have to listen to this shite 24/7 ambushing a tragic story of a lunatic murdering an innocent girl. There is a bigger issue causing more distress to us in 2022. Male Suicide . Can i ambush the hysteric at the moment and highlight that . Can we analyse the pressure on these kids ?

To help you feel better about this. You are right . Well done yiur hours of research have convinced me. ALL MEN need to change . Just the men though right . Even HJ tried to get a womens lib point in there .

my replies may not be as considered as others so you get my unfiltered opinions . In my view your posta on the subject are at best moot on here . Who are you preaching to , everyone has more or less agreed with you , we have expanded on it ? Not sure what you want a slap on the back ?

Successful / intelligent women is one of the most attractive things to me in a woman.


i gave up work for 2.5 years to look after our 1st kid as the wifes career was at a critical point and my son a premature baby had some early years issues that required more help than a creche could offer. So i shrunk my own balls .

[Lazare]

Ok, I'll accept I'm wrong about the objective risk to the Kentuckian compared to an Irish woman.

I'll park the racism element of my argument as it's a side issue and is clouding things.

In terms of the two situations being comparable you seem to be suggesting that if I can ask Irish men to modify behaviour, I can also ask black men in Kentucky to do the same.

I feel the two situations are poles apart because of the disparity between each groups social standing, and their relative social privileges (if that's the correct way of putting it).

It's not fair to ask an African American man, good man, to be mindful of how white people perceive him, and to act accordingly. It's a gross insult given that country's history.

There is no such baggage when asking an Irish man to do the same. We currently ask women to modify their behaviours, and that is certainly somewhat comparable to asking that black man to do it.

[Lazare]

Sorry if I offended you Willie. I know full well you're a good guy.

I guess I'm obsessed with the topic because I'm bringing up three girls.

Pretty terrified of the future tbh.

[Solksjaer!]

Sorry if I offended you Willie. I know full well you're a good guy.

I guess I'm obsessed with the topic because I'm bringing up three girls.

Pretty terrified of the future tbh.

Like i said unfiltered . Im not offended im biting back .


Im more terrified for boys than girls in the future tbh . The curve is going one way . Anyway there are bigger topics in the future to worry about than 99% of men modifying their behaviour . My lads ( unless mentally effected) will know how to respect ALL people irrespective of sex/creed etc .

Maybe not culchies though .

[Wombatman]

It's argued that the root of the problem is men's violent behavior. When you look at that stats on violent crime it's significantly biased towards males.
I wonder if an anachronistic propensity to violence is part of the nature of man?

[Wombatman]

OMG. Let's pray that none of us ever encounter this latter day Frankenstein's Monster.

wtf.png

[dobby]

Sam McConkey on the radio this morning saying men could have to do some kind of course to get a licence to participate in society mother of christ. Is he hoping to be taken seriously with that pathetic nonsense

[Raoul Duke III]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

"this is how you get Trump"

Hectoring, tedious, self-righteous conversations about transgender rights, critical race theory, toxic masculinity etc. They actively repell the people in the middle ground of society and lead to a backlash in the opposite direction. These aren't bad people and they resent the bullshit being spewed at them.

[Goodluck2me]

Anyone have a contact in betfair for dispute resolution? Seems I’ve been fucked by their cash out option.

[Wombatman]

Don't worry kids. Big bad Donald isn't coming for you if you discuss sexism, racism or homophobia. Continue your discourse. Some people are capable of adjusting their world view and aren't completely dyed-in-the-wool.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

The surprise hit of our household over the last month has been this rather fancy-looking carbonator. The small environmental impact is the reduction of consumption of about 15 bottles a week of plastic bottles of fizzy water, but its also rather nice sparkling water. Ireland seems to have gone down an odd route of sparkling its water to the point of aggression, compared to the much more gentle sparkles of the continent which the Aarke is great at. #MiddleClassPostoftheDay

[Lazare]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

"this is how you get Trump"

Hectoring, tedious, self-righteous conversations about transgender rights, critical race theory, toxic masculinity etc. They actively repell the people in the middle ground of society and lead to a backlash in the opposite direction. These aren't bad people and they resent the bullshit being spewed at them.

Bizarre.

[shrapnel]

The surprise hit of our household over the last month has been this rather fancy-looking carbonator. The small environmental impact is the reduction of consumption of about 15 bottles a week of plastic bottles of fizzy water, but its also rather nice sparkling water. Ireland seems to have gone down an odd route of sparkling its water to the point of aggression, compared to the much more gentle sparkles of the continent which the Aarke is great at. #MiddleClassPostoftheDay

Lol, that's just a very expensive sodastream!

[hotspur]

Lol, that's just a very expensive sodastream!

I have a friend who has one that cost thousands.

[shrapnel]

I have a friend who has one that cost thousands.

I'd love to do a taste test

[Raoul Duke III]

Bizarre.

You don't think the various manifestations of wokeism are something used to political advantage by Trump and co?

Bizarre.

[Raoul Duke III]

Some classic cheese-eating surrender-monkeyism at the RDS Shraaaaap!

Could ship 100 points at this rate.

[Raoul Duke III]

Sorry if I offended you Willie. I know full well you're a good guy.

I guess I'm obsessed with the topic because I'm bringing up three girls.

Pretty terrified of the future tbh.

What are you terrifed of?

We live in a safe, prosperous, cohesive society where women have never had better opportunities.

[shrapnel]

Some classic cheese-eating surrender-monkeyism at the RDS Shraaaaap!

Could ship 100 points at this rate.

Half of the he team, if not more are academy players. They couldn't give a shit about this game.

[Lazare]

You don't think the various manifestations of wokeism are something used to political advantage by Trump and co?

Bizarre.

I do. The ebb and flow of right and left is a worldwide phenomena and a feature of democracy.

I think it's bizarre that you think the position I'm holding in a conversation about women's everyday issues is fringe woke leftism.

[Raoul Duke III]

I think it's bizarre that you think the position I'm holding in a conversation about women's everyday issues is fringe woke leftism.

You ain't exactly getting a lot of support...

[Raoul Duke III]

Half of the he team, if not more are academy players. They couldn't give a shit about this game.

It's pretty pathetic and demeans French rugby. No Irish team would ever go into a HC game with that attitude.

What would Charles de Gaulle, Napoleon or indeed Asterix the Gaul say?

[Lazare]

You ain't exactly getting a lot of support...

Yep. True. Although frustratingly the simple point I was making sailed over many heads.

[Lazare]

What are you terrifed of?

We live in a safe, prosperous, cohesive society where women have never had better opportunities.

Like you said yesterday I want them to be as free and independent as possible. That may mean heading to Spain at 18 with pals, or just generally heading out on the town.

I'll be a mess. That's just parenting though isn't it.

[Emmet]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

"this is how you get Trump"

Hectoring, tedious, self-righteous conversations about transgender rights, critical race theory, toxic masculinity etc. They actively repell the people in the middle ground of society and lead to a backlash in the opposite direction. These aren't bad people and they resent the bullshit being spewed at them.

It's just labelling and othering at play. We are a society, all of us.