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    Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
    Peas in a pod. Same with the minor exception that nurses are paid grand, neither over nor underpaid.
    I am using EU pay scales as a comparison tool.
    "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

    Comment


      A lot of peoples thoughts that nurses are over/under paid is a function of the chaos and stress within the health system.

      If the health system runs mostly without issue then the answer is usually very different.

      The system is a disaster.
      This adds stress and new functions to a nurses job.
      People think nurses are over/underpaid given the system they work within.

      This goes for most jobs, and the "are they underpaid" question.

      The reciprocal is also true.
      This may or may not be an original thought of my own.
      All efforts were made to make this thought original but with the abundance of thoughts in the world the originality of this thought cannot be guaranteed.
      The author is not liable for any issue arising from the platitudinous nature of this post.

      Comment


        ...
        "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

        Comment


          ...
          "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

          Comment


            Primetime is pure agony. Not sure I can deal with 3 weeks of this. A bit of fresh dirt on some candidates would be great.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Silver-Tiger View Post
              Primetime is pure agony. Not sure I can deal with 3 weeks of this. A bit of fresh dirt on some candidates would be great.
              I hear Leo is really angling for head of the Commission long-term (and why not). And Mehole looks permanently constipated.

              Mind you, when you look right and left to our English-speaking big brethren, they look like fucking geniuses.
              "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

              Comment


                ...
                "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Wombatman View Post
                  Thinking of drawing up a list of questions for the GE door steppers to see where they are at. Binary questions with a national flavor to stop them waffling. Not to interested in local nimby stuff, leave that to the local crowd.

                  Here are a few to give an idea of where I'm coming from.


                  Do you think nurses are overpaid?

                  Do you think property values should be reviewed upwards for property tax?

                  Do you agree with Noel Grealish's that there are too many foreigners sponging off the state?

                  Do you think the first plan for water charges was a good idea?

                  Do you support abortion legislation as it stands?

                  Do you think more public housing is the best was to tackle the housing crisis?

                  Do you think more funding should be pumped into the health service as it stands? (still working on this one).

                  Do you think a performance related pay should be brought in for teachers?

                  Do you think we have a law and order crisis in Ireland?

                  Do you think the National Broadband Plan is a good investment?

                  ........?
                  I would focus on the current hot topic of health.

                  Do you understand the income tax model that Sweden uses to fund the health services your party aspires too? Do you think it’s possible to have the second without the first?

                  For fg door steppers - How did you get yourself into a situation where you picked an election time just after flu season when every year hospitals are over run and that’s going to be the narrative for the whole leaders debate? If you cannot predict the seasons how can we expect you to predict anything more complex?

                  Still most likely go fg but how did Leo not pick a time when they were ridding high post abortion ref and refusing to budge to uk pressure on Brexit.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
                    Yes
                    Yes
                    No (but change to Irish and its Yes)
                    Yes
                    Yes
                    No
                    No
                    No
                    No
                    Yes

                    I trust I can be assured of your very first preference.
                    Ah come on the national broadband plan is just a vote getter policy.

                    Connect towns for sure but running broadband to bachelor farmers houses in Leitrim is crazy. That’s the plan it’s not just who asks it’s every house.

                    5g wireless will make the problem obsolete before they get close to completion.

                    Comment


                      ...
                      "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                      Comment


                        ...
                        "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Silver-Tiger View Post
                          Primetime is pure agony. Not sure I can deal with 3 weeks of this. A bit of fresh dirt on some candidates would be great.
                          I think I'm going to implement a self imposed ban on all media (traditional and social) until Feb 9th.

                          Really don't think I can deal with all the shite that'll be spouted from all parties.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Lao Lao View Post
                            I think I'm going to implement a self imposed ban on all media (traditional and social) until Feb 9th.

                            Really don't think I can deal with all the shite that'll be spouted from all parties.
                            The one that annoys me is 'arrogant'.

                            And it's not just Irish politics, everywhere you go that seems to be the phrase that lazy politicians think will get traction. Basically a message of 'those arrogant bastards in government, elitist scum, kick them out'.

                            And then you get Trump. Or worse, FF.
                            "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by RichieM View Post
                              Still most likely go fg but how did Leo not pick a time when they were ridding high post abortion ref and refusing to budge to uk pressure on Brexit.
                              Because of Brexit. It would have been hrossly irresponsible to call an election when there was a very real threat of a hard Brexit.
                              Like everyone (even SF and PBP) agreed with that!

                              Equally once Boris got Brexit done (), it was virtually impossible not to call it.
                              "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by AdMMM View Post
                                Holy shit! I last logged in in February 2016!

                                The dramatic return is because I'm headed to Vegas next month for 5 days (Mon - Fri) with herself. I haven't been there in 6 years, so just wondering where there's good midweek games to play and also any good restaurants and shows to treat ourselves at? (And maybe a few good value places in case the poker doesn't go to plan!!)

                                Thinking of using one day to go to the Grand Canyon, then spending one night downtown around Fremont St. Rest of the time is pretty free, any other MUST do things?

                                Also, good to see lots of the same people here!!!
                                This was a class way to pass an hour. Think the actual escape room only took 15 mins to complete but my god it was one of the most intense things I've ever done. There are actors in the rooms that come at you out of nowhere. Great fun
                                Escape room Zoe by Escaped Las Vegas: ZOE in Las Vegas on worldofescapes.com. Description, photos, reviews, contacts, schedule and online booking.

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                                  Most of the money on NBP will be spent on local employment. It's the equiv of building walls in the West like they did in 1950s / 1960s. Which is not so bad a plan from an economic perspective.
                                  That makes a lot more sense than by drunken ramble last night. Carry on.

                                  Comment


                                    Second captains podcast on the Black and Tans last week well worth a listen, well worth the subscription in general. Not many podcasts you could say that about most of them are rambling , self indulgent poorly researched rambling (eg blind boy) with a healthy dose of shilling and log rolling thrown in.

                                    Did we have a discussion on what the hell FG thought they were up to with there Black and Tan commemoration? Best I’ve heard was that they were looking for the warm fuzzy feeling and back slapping plaudits certain Irish establishments figures get for being “mature”. Kind of like all the self praise comfortably middle and upwards class people lavished upon themselves for not ripping up seats and rioting when God save the queen was played at a rugby match in croke park

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by PSV58 View Post
                                      Second captains podcast on the Black and Tans last week well worth a listen, well worth the subscription in general. Not many podcasts you could say that about most of them are rambling , self indulgent poorly researched rambling (eg blind boy) with a healthy dose of shilling and log rolling thrown in.

                                      Did we have a discussion on what the hell FG thought they were up to with there Black and Tan commemoration? Best I’ve heard was that they were looking for the warm fuzzy feeling and back slapping plaudits certain Irish establishments figures get for being “mature”. Kind of like all the self praise comfortably middle and upwards class people lavished upon themselves for not ripping up seats and rioting when God save the queen was played at a rugby match in croke park
                                      Yes, thought this was excellent

                                      Comment


                                        Anyone got a link to 2nd captain's Podcast on B&Ts? S'il vous plait.

                                        Comment


                                          I think the point of the RIC thing is that there are many shades and dimensions to history. You should beware of simplistic, linear narratives as they obscure and blur the realities of what actually happened and why.

                                          An example would be the hundreds of thousands of Irishmen who fought in the Great War. Until very recently, they were somewhat airbrushed out of the historical narrative as they didn't fit in with our national creationist mythology.
                                          Equally, tens of thousands of Irishmen served in the RIC and latterly the RUC. Were they all the monsters and bogeymen that the Wolfe Tone-playing eejits would suggest?
                                          "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                                          Comment


                                            How we commemorate the centenary of the Civil War (Irishmen doing awful things to Irishmen with hardly a covenient Brit blame-hound in sight) will be illuminating.
                                            "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                                            Comment


                                              Labour can't possibly do as bad as the last time and the Greens will continue to capitalise on the momentum they've generated in the local elections.

                                              Irrespective of their voting record on actual Green topics which I think Hitch previously mentioned, it seems as though the Greens are trending in the right direction, Powers have the line at 9.5 currently priced at 4/6 while Labour's line is the same.

                                              I won't be punting on either but the Greens looking like a 5x increase isn't a bit surprising.

                                              Comment


                                                ...
                                                "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                                Comment


                                                  Fair point Raoul but why the commemorating?
                                                  Who has cried out for this ? I presume they got a wage for their labour ? Looking at today's corrupt force , the mind boggles as to what went on then. If you've(not you personally) family that were in the RIC, perhaps light a candle under their picture


                                                  The Civil war no Brits to blame ??? Where they fighting over Kerry Dublin GAA funds ?
                                                  Seems odd you dismiss British accountability.

                                                  Comment


                                                    ...
                                                    "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                                    Comment


                                                      Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                                                      Maybe I'm unique (like my mama said) in never having heard of the RIC before this - as a guess they were the state police force before independence? Doesn't seem a particularly notable thing to celebrate - just doing your job - unless its more complicated than that.

                                                      Remember my gran having some medals that her father got in the war of independence but wouldn't know what side he would have been fighting on. They all voted FF as a religion, so maybe that means something about the side?
                                                      Lol my nan would be shocked if she knew I was considering anyone but FF, it's funny how those family allegiances exist.

                                                      On the Greens, it's not a fair representation because I know a few people who work with the candidate down here but a couple of people have responded to my question as though there is no alternative to Green. It seems as though they're unaware that they won 2 seats last time out.

                                                      Comment


                                                        Originally posted by Solksjaer! View Post
                                                        The Civil war no Brits to blame ??? Where they fighting over Kerry Dublin GAA funds ?
                                                        Seems odd you dismiss British accountability.
                                                        The Irish representatives conducted a Treaty with the Brits.
                                                        Two flavours of Irish political opinion then conducted a low intensity but fairly vicious Civil War about the content of that Treaty.

                                                        Much as we love to blame the Brits, that one is on us!
                                                        "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                                                        Comment


                                                          Originally posted by PSV58 View Post
                                                          Second captains podcast on the Black and Tans last week well worth a listen, well worth the subscription in general.

                                                          Did we have a discussion on what the hell FG thought they were up to with there Black and Tan commemoration?
                                                          Originally posted by NoRiverRequired View Post
                                                          Yes, thought this was excellent
                                                          Are they referring to is in any way as a 'Black and Tan commemoration' or is that just PSV's trolling?

                                                          Might give it a spin or just save it for the LOL's when we see the state of the commemorations we'll have after FF go into government with SF/IRA
                                                          Turning millions into thousands

                                                          Comment


                                                            ...
                                                            "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                                            Comment


                                                              Originally posted by PSV58 View Post
                                                              Second captains podcast on the Black and Tans last week well worth a listen, well worth the subscription in general. Not many podcasts you could say that about most of them are rambling , self indulgent poorly researched rambling (eg blind boy) with a healthy dose of shilling and log rolling thrown in.

                                                              Did we have a discussion on what the hell FG thought they were up to with there Black and Tan commemoration? Best I’ve heard was that they were looking for the warm fuzzy feeling and back slapping plaudits certain Irish establishments figures get for being “mature”. Kind of like all the self praise comfortably middle and upwards class people lavished upon themselves for not ripping up seats and rioting when God save the queen was played at a rugby match in croke park
                                                              I subscribe but haven't listened to a show in > 6 months. This has reminded me to cancel. Main reason is McDevitt. He is, by far the least funny broadcaster there is. Problem is. He tries to make a joke with 4 out of every 5 sentences. He really drives me insane. Pure shite.

                                                              He offers absolutely zero when there is something to talk about which is a problem when there are only 3 (and a lot of the time 2) on the Pod.
                                                              I like Early but can't listen to McDevitt anymore. I'm out because of him. Even the head on him on premier sports is annoying.

                                                              Comment


                                                                Originally posted by Silver-Tiger View Post
                                                                I subscribe but haven't listened to a show in > 6 months. This has reminded me to cancel. Main reason is McDevitt. He is, by far the least funny broadcaster there is. Problem is. He tries to make a joke with 4 out of every 5 sentences. He really drives me insane. Pure shite.

                                                                He offers absolutely zero when there is something to talk about which is a problem when there are only 3 (and a lot of the time 2) on the Pod.
                                                                I like Early but can't listen to McDevitt anymore. I'm out because of him. Even the head on him on premier sports is annoying.
                                                                SPOILER

                                                                Comment


                                                                  Any US-based posters that fancy taking 5 mins out to do a small survey on betting interests? No fancy link or anything, i'll just ping you across some questions. Thanks!

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    Originally posted by Solksjaer! View Post
                                                                    Fair point Raoul but why the commemorating?
                                                                    Who has cried out for this ? I presume they got a wage for their labour ? Looking at today's corrupt force , the mind boggles as to what went on then. If you've(not you personally) family that were in the RIC, perhaps light a candle under their picture


                                                                    The Civil war no Brits to blame ??? Where they fighting over Kerry Dublin GAA funds ?
                                                                    Seems odd you dismiss British accountability.
                                                                    a fact that was largely brushed under the carpet as it was easy political points was that all this was organized in 2012.
                                                                    What I found interesting that the same folks so up in arms about this were not too upset about Stormont power sharing.
                                                                    One of those things advanced the process at least emotionally of a united ireland....
                                                                    People say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
                                                                    Get a shiny metal Revolut card! And a free tenner!
                                                                    https://revolut.com/referral/jamesb8!G10D21

                                                                    Comment


                                                                      Originally posted by DeadParrot View Post
                                                                      a fact that was largely brushed under the carpet as it was easy political points was that all this was organized in 2012.
                                                                      What I found interesting that the same folks so up in arms about this were not too upset about Stormont power sharing.
                                                                      One of those things advanced the process at least emotionally of a united ireland....
                                                                      I found Ferriter's reaction uncharacteristically irrational.

                                                                      It was effectively him that got it cancelled by going on the radio and claiming that the minister was using him and the committee of historians to advise on commemorations that he chairs as 'political cover'. But when he was asked if they had recommended commemorations for RIC and DMP he said yes but not like what was planned that it should have been some sort of seminar or academic conference instead. Then when asked what he did recommend he said that they don't make recommendations on what form the commemorations should take.
                                                                      It was all very odd and he came across as genuinely angry but he either couldn't or wouldn't explain why he was so upset. It was almost as if he was annoyed because the advice he didn't give was ignored... so maybe he gave it on the QT or had warned that this wouldn't go down well, I don't know

                                                                      Then the article he wrote for the IT reads to me like a strong argument in favour of commemorating RIC and DMP and obviously a clear understanding of how they were neither Black and Tans or Auxiliaries.

                                                                      All those tricolour wrapped fools who kicked up about this have hugely set back the prospects of bringing Unionism on board towards some sort a workable post brexit all island accommodation.
                                                                      If we can't even talk about commemorating what was at that time a wholly legitimate Irish police force without conflating them with the B&T's how on earth are we going to integrate a million unionists who will want to continue to remember their dead, including those murdered by current members of the Dail and the Assembly!
                                                                      Turning millions into thousands

                                                                      Comment


                                                                        Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post
                                                                        I found Ferriter's reaction uncharacteristically irrational.

                                                                        It was effectively him that got it cancelled by going on the radio and claiming that the minister was using him and the committee of historians to advise on commemorations that he chairs as 'political cover'. But when he was asked if they had recommended commemorations for RIC and DMP he said yes but not like what was planned that it should have been some sort of seminar or academic conference instead. Then when asked what he did recommend he said that they don't make recommendations on what form the commemorations should take.
                                                                        It was all very odd and he came across as genuinely angry but he either couldn't or wouldn't explain why he was so upset. It was almost as if he was annoyed because the advice he didn't give was ignored... so maybe he gave it on the QT or had warned that this wouldn't go down well, I don't know

                                                                        Then the article he wrote for the IT reads to me like a strong argument in favour of commemorating RIC and DMP and obviously a clear understanding of how they were neither Black and Tans or Auxiliaries.

                                                                        All those tricolour wrapped fools who kicked up about this have hugely set back the prospects of bringing Unionism on board towards some sort a workable post brexit all island accommodation.
                                                                        If we can't even talk about commemorating what was at that time a wholly legitimate Irish police force without conflating them with the B&T's how on earth are we going to integrate a million unionists who will want to continue to remember their dead, including those murdered by current members of the Dail and the Assembly!
                                                                        Had you seen this? I just happened to read it this morning.

                                                                        Ferriter, a member of the EAG, told TheJournal.ie today that the group had envisioned an academic event such as a conference or seminar.

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          Jaysis. A poster of Eoghan Murphy was put up on a pole yesterday at the exact spot where the JCB injured that homeless fella.

                                                                          Fuck me the optics of that.
                                                                          I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            Originally posted by Keane View Post
                                                                            Had you seen this? I just happened to read it this morning.

                                                                            https://www.thejournal.ie/diarmaid-f...56212-Jan2020/
                                                                            Leo seems to have been reading the BBV

                                                                            “I remember 10, 15 years ago it was very controversial to commemorate the deaths of soldiers in World War I because some people felt that they shouldn’t be remembered because they fought for the United Kingdom,” he said.

                                                                            “That has changed. We now all accept, or almost everyone accepts, that it is right and proper to remember Irish people, soldiers who died in the first World War,” he continued.
                                                                            "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                                                                            Comment


                                                                              Originally posted by Keane View Post
                                                                              Had you seen this? I just happened to read it this morning.

                                                                              https://www.thejournal.ie/diarmaid-f...56212-Jan2020/
                                                                              “It is not included in the list of events and themes we suggested should be formally commemorated by the state. What we stated was that ‘consideration should be given to the organisation of specific initiatives to commemorate the RIC and the DMP and to acknowledge their place in history’.
                                                                              "I would like some cake and also like to eat it"
                                                                              People say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
                                                                              Get a shiny metal Revolut card! And a free tenner!
                                                                              https://revolut.com/referral/jamesb8!G10D21

                                                                              Comment


                                                                                I think the key point here is that memorialisation of history says a lot about a country and it's relative levels of self-confidence and/or insecurity.

                                                                                Think about how a proposed memorial to, say Archbishop McQuaid, would be debated today compared to thirty or forty years ago.

                                                                                Beware othodoxies.
                                                                                "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                  To put it another way, would anyone agree with the following statement:

                                                                                  "The 1916 Rising was almost completely localised to Dublin with small numbers of Volunteers and Citizens Army combatants briefly seizing isolated strategic landmarks. It had very little popular support at the time and was crushed with ease by British forces. The leader of the rebellion was an eccentric paedophile."
                                                                                  "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                    Right so there were good people on both sides, we have a shared history that we need to recognize blah blah
                                                                                    The Black and Tans and RIC were intertwined and worked together to enforce British rule and suppress “the natives” . By the time war of independence came around anyone still in RIC knew what they were involved in. The proposed commemoration was a monumentally stupid idea and dismissing people who thought so a Wolfe tone loving drooler doesn’t really cut it (though of course throws people were among those with objections)

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                      Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
                                                                                      To put it another way, would anyone agree with the following statement:

                                                                                      "The 1916 Rising was almost completely localised to Dublin with small numbers of Volunteers and Citizens Army combatants briefly seizing isolated strategic landmarks. It had very little popular support at the time and was crushed with ease by British forces. The leader of the rebellion was an eccentric paedophile."
                                                                                      I don't know either way about Pearse being a paedophile but the rest of it is uncontroversial.

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                        Originally posted by Keane View Post
                                                                                        SPOILER
                                                                                        Funny that they are Premier Sports 1/2 punch at anchor.

                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                          Originally posted by Keane View Post
                                                                                          I don't know either way about Pearse being a paedophile but the rest of it is uncontroversial.
                                                                                          Doesn't really tally with the mythology though.
                                                                                          "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                            Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
                                                                                            Leo seems to have been reading the BBV

                                                                                            “I remember 10, 15 years ago it was very controversial to commemorate the deaths of soldiers in World War I because some people felt that they shouldn’t be remembered because they fought for the United Kingdom,” he said.

                                                                                            “That has changed. We now all accept, or almost everyone accepts, that it is right and proper to remember Irish people, soldiers who died in the first World War,” he continued.
                                                                                            Was it really 'very controversial' to commemorate the deaths of soldiers in World War I ten years ago? I can remember isolated grumbling about it here and there, at a push. Maybe I wasn't paying attention.

                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                              Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
                                                                                              Doesn't really tally with the mythology though.
                                                                                              I don't think anybody disputes any of what you said?

                                                                                              EDIT:
                                                                                              Like, I've never seen anyone describe the rising in the opposite terms, eg

                                                                                              "The 1916 Rising was a nationwide rebellion with vast numbers of Volunteers and Citizens Army combatants taking over large tracts of the cities and countryside. It enjoyed huge popular support at the time and brought the British to their knees."
                                                                                              Last edited by Keane; 15-01-20, 14:35.

                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                                Originally posted by Silver-Tiger View Post
                                                                                                Funny that they are Premier Sports 1/2 punch at anchor.
                                                                                                Serious doses the pair of them.

                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                  Originally posted by Keane View Post
                                                                                                  Was it really 'very controversial' to commemorate the deaths of soldiers in World War I ten years ago? I can remember isolated grumbling about it here and there, at a push. Maybe I wasn't paying attention.
                                                                                                  This too shall pass.

                                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                                    POPPYCOCK

                                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                                      I don't think it's particularly controversial for people to refuse to wear the poppy in the context of bullying and aggressive British nationalism. I think it's kind of a tangent on whether or not it was very controversial to suggest commemorating the Irish who fought in WW1 ten years ago anyway.

                                                                                                      So far as I remember there was very little protest around the commemorations in 2014, so unless there was some sea change between 2010 and 2014 I suspect this may be slightly made up.

                                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                                        ...
                                                                                                        "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                                          ...
                                                                                                          "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                                            Originally posted by Keane View Post
                                                                                                            I don't think it's particularly controversial for people to refuse to wear the poppy in the context of bullying and aggressive British nationalism. I think it's kind of a tangent on whether or not it was very controversial to suggest commemorating the Irish who fought in WW1 ten years ago anyway.

                                                                                                            So far as I remember there was very little protest around the commemorations in 2014, so unless there was some sea change between 2010 and 2014 I suspect this may be slightly made up.
                                                                                                            The poppy is another form of memorialisation, and one that has deviated considerably in recent years from its original intent. To the point that if I wanted to memorialise the fallen of WW1, I probably wouldn't wear a poppy for damn sure.

                                                                                                            I think if Leo had said '30/40' years ago he would have been spot on. The maturing of historical memory on the island since the Troubles ended has been one of the greatest features of our increasing confidence as a modern nation.

                                                                                                            I mean this in a good way (you young bastard ) but you're too young to remember otherwise.
                                                                                                            There was certainly a lot of situations growing up for example where I was very aware that it would not be smart to be identified as a Protestant for example. You certainly wouldn't have those concerns now.
                                                                                                            "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                                              Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                                                                                                              Don't really get what the point here is. You seem to be trying to demean something with flippant comments that was ultimately successful and brilliant for the country and its people.
                                                                                                              What's flippant in what I said? (And ty for proving my point btw)
                                                                                                              "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                                                ...
                                                                                                                "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                                  I can see myself spending the afternoon reading arguments about whether or not Pearse was a paedophile now.

                                                                                                                  Anyone have any recommendations for good books about that period in Ireland actually? I don't have much better than a table quiz level knowledge of the facts and dates and things.

                                                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                                                    Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                                                                                                                    That it was some small isolated unpopular movement run by a peado?
                                                                                                                    Are these things untrue?

                                                                                                                    Or 'flippant' in some way. They are statements of historical fact.
                                                                                                                    "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                                                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                                                      Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                                                                                                                      That it was some small isolated unpopular movement run by a peado?

                                                                                                                      Ultimately it worked, so talking about its origins as being unsuccessful misses that point dramatically and that it was a chain in a string of events that fairly quickly led to independence.
                                                                                                                      I mean, in a vacuum the description is totally accurate which I presume is why you don't hear people disputing it much.

                                                                                                                      The gas thing is that within two years public opinion had swonged to the point where Republicans won a landslide in 1918 - the election which gave us a very positive legacy from the Brits as they implemented proportional representation in an attempt to stymie Sinn Fein.

                                                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Keane View Post
                                                                                                                        I mean, in a vacuum the description is totally accurate which I presume is why you don't hear people disputing it much.

                                                                                                                        The gas thing is that within two years public opinion had swonged to the point where Republicans won a landslide in 1918 - the election which gave us a very positive legacy from the Brits as they implemented proportional representation in an attempt to stymie Sinn Fein.
                                                                                                                        Hitch is having an emotional reaction to the historical facts - because they don't fit with the established myths.

                                                                                                                        To put it another way would be to ask how many elected parliamentarians the Rising proponents had at the time of the Rising. Zero. Another fact.

                                                                                                                        So whatever they were up to, at the time it was certainly not on behalf of the Irish people. Who were overwhelmingly in favour of Home Rule of course.
                                                                                                                        "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

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                                                                                                                          Originally posted by Keane View Post
                                                                                                                          I can see myself spending the afternoon reading arguments about whether or not Pearse was a paedophile now.

                                                                                                                          Anyone have any recommendations for good books about that period in Ireland actually? I don't have much better than a table quiz level knowledge of the facts and dates and things.
                                                                                                                          Exactly the same, I'm on the verge of finishing: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...f_the_Troubles not precisely what you're after but relevant nonetheless.

                                                                                                                          Two that popped up repeatedly for me are: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...x0N2BEO&rank=1 and https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...hb13DZV&rank=2

                                                                                                                          Another that I came across but I haven't got a hold of yet is: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...mF3lKlc&rank=1

                                                                                                                          I have the others in hard copy but yet to see this in store.

                                                                                                                          They're next on the list for me this month, I just added them to goodreads so you'll see them.

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