Dividing up dealers tips after a torunament?

[MayoPokerTour]

What's the general procedure in Ireland at the moment for one day tournaments? Should the cash dealers get more than the tourney dealers if they generate more tips?

[The Aul Switcharoo]

Divided up equally between in most of the games I have worked in the past

You know how to make an hourly rate from the tips ye?

Some pay more basic rate per hour for cash

[dobby]

What's the general procedure in Ireland at the moment for one day tournaments? Should the cash dealers get more than the tourney dealers if they generate more tips?

Pay your cash dealers €12 an hour if they are good and leave your tourney dealers on whatever rate they are on.

Tips shoukd be split on a per hour basis. Add up all the tips, add up all the hours worked and divide it to get your hourly rate and pay the tips that way.

Dealer 1 works ten hours, tips work out at €2.50 per hour so €25 to him.

Dealer 2 works 15 hours @ €2.50 per hour so gets €37.50 in tips.

Definitely the fairest way imo.

[MayoPokerTour]

Divided up equally between in most of the games I have worked in the past

You know how to make an hourly rate from the tips ye?

Some pay more basic rate per hour for cash

Pay your cash dealers €12 an hour if they are good and leave your tourney dealers on whatever rate they are on.

Tips shoukd be split on a per hour basis. Add up all the tips, add up all the hours worked and divide it to get your hourly rate and pay the tips that way.

Dealer 1 works ten hours, tips work out at €2.50 per hour so €25 to him.

Dealer 2 works 15 hours @ €2.50 per hour so gets €37.50 in tips.

Definitely the fairest way imo.

Well apart from paying cash dealers extra thats the way ive done things previously but have had some complaints from cash dealers that they deserve extra as they are generating most tips. Certainly paying cash dealers a higher hourly rate is one way round this i suppose

[dobby]

Ungrateful bastards. Tell them to quit the whinging, they aren't irreplaceable!

Cash dealers usually get more wages because, like you said, they generate more rake for the house but I never started whinging about it if I didn't get paid extra.

But all the tips should always be paid equally because they are all doing the same job.

[Jim11]

I pay the same rate for both as cash dealers in the end get more hours

[dobby]

I pay the same rate for both as cash dealers in the end get more hours

Yes, they always do. But, if you have good cash dealers whacking out hands quickly and efficiently then they are worth the extra.

[MayoPokerTour]

Ungrateful bastards. Tell them to quit the whinging, they aren't irreplaceable!

Cash dealers usually get more wages because, like you said, they generate more rake for the house but I never started whinging about it if I didn't get paid extra.

But all the tips should always be paid equally because they are all doing the same job.

Unfortunately, around here they are, it's major problem trying to get even a few dealers for a one day tournament

[dobby]

Unfortunately, around here they are, it's major problem trying to get even a few dealers for a one day tournament

Fair enough. If they are good, give them the extra wages. If they're only ok and you think improvement is needed, tell them they have to do a course with yourself, free of charge but if they don't do the course, they don't get the extra cash. I dont mean a week long intensive course. Just a few hours some evening so you get them up to good cash dealer standards.

A good cash dealer benefits everyone. Including the dealer.

[RG67]

My 2c

Cash dealers should earn a slightly larger rate per hour due to the fact that more responsibility falls at their feet.

Tournament dealers are reluctant to go on a cash dealer list if the wage is the same as why would you take on more responsibility for the same money.

Tips should be divided equally, tips are a bonus, tips are not part of your wage and therefore shouldn't be viewed as such.

[Jim11]

Yes, they always do. But, if you have good cash dealers whacking out hands quickly and efficiently then they are worth the extra.

Yes do agree with you

[bohsman]

Most fair would probably be giving cash game tips to cash game dealers and tourney tips to tourney dealers.

[MayoPokerTour]

Most fair would probably be giving cash game tips to cash game dealers and tourney tips to tourney dealers.

Recent tourney i ran, with over €3,200 in prizemoney, the tournament tips amounted to the grand total of €10

[bohsman]

Recent tourney i ran, with over €3,200 in prizemoney, the tournament tips amounted to the grand total of €10

So give the tips to the people that are generating you rake and themselves tips.

[dobby]

So give the tips to the people that are generating you rake and themselves tips.

This would create far more problems. Just pay the cash dealers more and split all tips 50/50

[apokerw]

Tips should be divided equally, tips are a bonus, tips are not part of your wage and therefore shouldn't be viewed as such.

I work as a dealer in a casino but have also done a few events, what exactly do you mean tips aren't a part of the wage? Of course it is it's calculated as and hourly rate at the end and given to you that way, do you honestly think dealers would travel to deal at events for a tenner an hour if tips weren't on top?



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[dobby]

I work as a dealer in a casino but have also done a few events, what exactly do you mean tips aren't a part of the wage? Of course it is it's calculated as and hourly rate at the end and given to you that way, do you honestly think dealers would travel to deal at events for a tenner an hour if tips weren't on top?



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Tips are not wages. Your wage is €10 per hour or 12 an hour if you're good. Tips are a bonus. Not guaranteed income. No player is under any obligation to tip.

[apokerw]

Not saying anyone is obliged, I'm just saying dealers consider them part of their wages...


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[dobby]

Not saying anyone is obliged, I'm just saying dealers consider them part of their wages...


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No, dealers do not consider them part of the wages. I have been dealing for 8 years and have never said to an employer, what's the hourly rate for tips? If you go to a festival on a wage of a tenner an hour, then that is your wages. Any tips you get are graciously accepted as extra.

I really hope your colleagues don't have your thinking. That's why players give out about a lot of dealers. By saying you consider them part of your wages, means you expect players to tip. A horrible mentality.

[Lplate]

There's really no other way to do it than what's described above. It's a pity though. Some dealers are very good, both at keeping the game flowing and at interaction with the players. Some are good at one or the other and some are bad at both. When tipping, I'd love to be able to exclude the final category to the benefit of the first category. Instead, I just settle for letting the organisers know who is in the last category, if I can.

[apokerw]

No, dealers do not consider them part of the wages. I have been dealing for 8 years and have never said to an employer, what's the hourly rate for tips? If you go to a festival on a wage of a tenner an hour, then that is your wages. Any tips you get are graciously accepted as extra.



I really hope your colleagues don't have your thinking. That's why players give out about a lot of dealers. By saying you consider them part of your wages, means you expect players to tip. A horrible mentality.

I'm obviously not putting this right if I got 2.50 an hour in tips for a weekend I would say to myself I earned 12.50 an hour for my weekends work not that I would expect or demand tips off players trust me I get less tips given to me personally than most other dealers at events, joys of been male so I'm happy that the tips are divided in this manner!!


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[Wolves]

Ungrateful bastards. Tell them to quit the whinging, they aren't irreplaceable!

Cash dealers usually get more wages because, like you said, they generate more rake for the house but I never started whinging about it if I didn't get paid extra.

But all the tips should always be paid equally because they are all doing the same job.

Just on this bit I have to disagree completely.

Obvious point of omaha or round of each games in cash requiring much better dealers. Figuring out pot sized bets quickly is something lots can't do. Also some dealers simply don't know which hands win at omaha. Add to this the fact that there are generally a lot more side pots in cash games, and the dealer has to be keeping track of pot sizes to take rake.

Other little differences like keeping track of any straddles in play (including mississippi straddles recently) and generally more tension/arguments in cash games, mean that a good dealer in a cash game is really needed. Nothing worse as a cash player than having a dealer who you don't trust to count pots/stacks correctly. The best dealers should deal cash and should be paid more imo.

Sorry if this was a bit off topic. Re the tips.. no idea what's best.

[RG67]

I'm obviously not putting this right if I got 2.50 an hour in tips for a weekend I would say to myself I earned 12.50 an hour for my weekends work not that I would expect or demand tips off players trust me I get less tips given to me personally than most other dealers at events, joys of been male so I'm happy that the tips are divided in this manner!!


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You're right, you didn't put it correctly and still aren't. I'm sure in the casino you work in has you on an hourly rate yes? I'm sure the events you work at you are also on an hourly rate yes? Whatever calculations you do after the event/weeks work with the total amount of money you made is entirely up to you. Personally speaking when I work an event I know that I am on €10, €11, €12 or €15 per hour and that is what I can count on taking home, if the tip point is then €3 per hour then great, it means for 10 hours @ €10ph I have earned €100 and I received €30 in tips from the generousity of the players totaling €130 fro the event, this does not mean I was on €13 per hour, well not in my view anyway.

[Morihei]

Just on this bit I have to disagree completely.

Obvious point of omaha or round of each games in cash requiring much better dealers. Figuring out pot sized bets quickly is something lots can't do. Also some dealers simply don't know which hands win at omaha. Add to this the fact that there are generally a lot more side pots in cash games, and the dealer has to be keeping track of pot sizes to take rake.

Other little differences like keeping track of any straddles in play (including mississippi straddles recently) and generally more tension/arguments in cash games, mean that a good dealer in a cash game is really needed. Nothing worse as a cash player than having a dealer who you don't trust to count pots/stacks correctly. The best dealers should deal cash and should be paid more imo.

Sorry if this was a bit off topic. Re the tips.. no idea what's best.

Nice post.

The best dealers should deal cash and should be paid more imo..

Yep. And each dealer should keep for themselves the tips they generate. The lethargic, fumbling, numerically challenged dealer who sits in and is rewarded with the grand sum of fuck all from the players.. well they can keep that for themselves as well. I think that's the fairest way.

[JP Poker]

I think the fairest way is to spilt them up on an equal hourly bases.

I've worked at some events in Europe (Austria nearly every casino do this) were the cash dealers pay the house €2 per half hour and keep their own tips.

The €2's go towards the tips for the cash floor managers, cash desk, chip runners and anyone else who works the cash floor.

In America nearly all cash dealers work for free and keep their own tips.

Any dealer I've spoken to who has worked in this system have all told me that they would much prefer to work for FREE and keep their own tips from the cash tables.

In fact most are reluctant to deal cash if their not keeping their own tips even thought I pay my cash dealers more (at festivals).

I must admit I think it's the way forward!

It allows you to lower your rake as your wage bill is lower. The dealers are always on the ball and keep the game moving. Which results in more hands per hour which compensates for some of the lost revenue due to lower rake.

But players must tip! In Austria if you didn't tip, the dealer would tell the floor man when they push off the table which players aren't tipping and the floor man will speak to the players on the side. Any player who continues to not tip is asked to leave!!

[bohsman]

I've worked at some events in Europe (Austria nearly every casino do this) were the cash dealers pay the house €2 per half hour and keep their own tips.

In America nearly all cash dealers work for free and keep their own tips.

Any dealer I've spoken to who has worked in this system have all told me that they would much prefer to work for FREE and keep their own tips from the cash tables.

Both of these were the way it was at a certain Dublin casino years ago. We technically paid the house a nightly rate (never came out of our pocket) and just got paid tips, apparently this wasn't a strong enough loophole for whoever looked into it and eventually they started paying minimum wage.

[rounders123]

Would cash dealers working for free and keeping their own tips not encourage the rake fairies to rake more than the rate?. Whats to stop this other than vigilant players?.

[bohsman]

Would cash dealers working for free and keeping their own tips not encourage the rake fairies to rake more than the rate?. Whats to stop this other than vigilant players?.

Surely the less rake removed from the table the better for dealers getting paid in tips?

[rounders123]

Surely the less rake removed from the table the better for dealers getting paid in tips?

Sorry i put it wrong. Lets say the hourly or half hourly rake is collected by the floor as normal. I assume the floor come and collect an hourly or 1/2 hourly rate at regular intervals. But if dealers know the rest(tips) is for theie self then whats to stop certain dealers 'accidentally' raking more from pots so they can keep more?. Its just that if dealers can keep all 'tips' it only really incentives to rake more. Unless im missing something?.

edit to say that in my experience dealers have always behaved professionally but i have read about incidents of over rakeage so all im saying is it increases incentive for someone inclined to try it on knowing its directly for them and not the accumulated tip pot. Other than that i like the idea as it also encourages a dealer to be enthusiastic and make an action table and feel better knowing they are getting back what they put into their shift.

[pgodkin]

But players must tip! In Austria if you didn't tip, the dealer would tell the floor man when they push off the table which players aren't tipping and the floor man will speak to the players on the side. Any player who continues to not tip is asked to leave!!

surely this is not a tip then, if a dealer is poor and i dont feel like a tip is warrented what's my recourse?

[dobby]

Sorry i put it wrong. Lets say the hourly or half hourly rake is collected by the floor as normal. I assume the floor come and collect an hourly or 1/2 hourly rate at regular intervals. But if dealers know the rest(tips) is for theie self then whats to stop certain dealers 'accidentally' raking more from pots so they can keep more?. Its just that if dealers can keep all 'tips' it only really incentives to rake more. Unless im missing something?.

edit to say that in my experience dealers have always behaved professionally but i have read about incidents of over rakeage so all im saying is it increases incentive for someone inclined to try it on knowing its directly for them and not the accumulated tip pot. Other than that i like the idea as it also encourages a dealer to be enthusiastic and make an action table and feel better knowing they are getting back what they put into their shift.

I understand exactly what you are saying but it would be hard for a dealer to over rake and get away with it. A good TD would know their dealers levels and expect the rake accordingly. Also if one dealer rakes 50 and another 200 then you would know something is up.

I did an event for Stephen McClean before where the rake was 5% per pot. He gave each dealer a target to reach and anything over that target they kept, or something similar, maybe Stephen could clarify if he sees this.

Anyway, my point is nothing out of the ordinary happened that weekend and there were no complaints from players or dealers. Over raking is easily spotted and not worth it for the dealer who would be blacklisted and out of a job.