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    Originally posted by V for Vendetta View Post
    Looks like we'll struggle to stay in the game for 60 minutes and then get killed. Ireland team here

    Taking SA to beat the 15.5 point handicap as well.
    15.5? Seriously? Think you're way off to be honest. This game is going to be duked out up front for the most part and depending on how both kickers go, how the scrum & breakdown are reffed and a few other factors, I expect it to be a tight enough game. The backrow battle will be crucial and we really need a big game out of Heaslip. If that happens and Henry and POM perform to any extent we have a chance.

    All IMO of course.
    "Ne jamais perdre sa passsionne...ou s'en, éloigner vite!!!!..EC

    Comment


      Originally posted by V for Vendetta View Post
      Looks like we'll struggle to stay in the game for 60 minutes and then get killed. Ireland team here

      Taking SA to beat the 15.5 point handicap as well.
      Holy shit tho an actual 7 in a sevens Jersey. Really excited to see Henry in action and delighted for Heaslip partly for the captaincy but also getting to play with a 7 will allow him to be an 8 for the day.

      Obv would have preferred Redden to start as with Murray we get the extra bulk but lose speed and reading of the game. Loosing POC and Touhy being injured at the same time is a big pity and I think we will be lucky to get a half out of Healy since the boks seem to lining up for some good old fashioned 10 man rugby.

      Meh I give it 50 mins before the Sexton O'Gara axis is back in play with mass kicking at a team that is beating us up front and in the line out.

      Heroic Irish stay tight for 60 and then get beasted out of it due to strange sub choices. Would have licked to have seen Marshall and Jackson in he team as I think it is a really exciting half back pairing in place of Rog and Murray would have given us a more attacking setup going into the final quarter.

      I am mad tho and would pick guys just because they are the inform players. Either way Kidney will see the game becoming a kicking and pack encounter on their side and rather than try an impose our own pattern will be happy to stick with theirs.

      I would say that we will stay within the handicap but this will be mainly due to a heroic back row performance in defense and less to do with us using possession particularly well.
      If they play 10 man rugby I think it will be more penalties and less tries on their side so will keep us in the handicap.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Emmet View Post
        ROG 10, Sexton at 12 for 18mins 36 seconds imo.
        well no sign of a first center on the bench so fair bet indeed.

        Comment


          Originally posted by RichieM View Post
          well no sign of a first center on the bench so fair bet indeed.
          McFadden is on the bench...

          Comment


            Originally posted by Emmet View Post
            McFadden is on the bench...
            He will never play McFadden at first center. We all know this so dont pretend. He may get thrown on to the wing in place of trimble but not in the center

            Comment


              Some of you seem to be getting carried away with the Springbok team...just re: the bench for example - Bok bench has very little impact on it IMO, Brits will get a few mins no doubt and he will be chomping at the bit having just got back into the squad, but apart from that..maybe De Jongh might have some effect in midfield if the game has broken up somewhat..but otherwise there is nothing to worry us there. Some of them are distinctly average.

              On the Irish bench, the logic with selecting McFadden at 22 was clear. He can come on anywhere from in the 3/4 line (11-14) and Earls can cover 15 plus anywhere else...Zebo will clearly be tested under the high ball early and I am quite confident he will deal with it well. The problem THEN in that possible scenario for the Boks is what to do other than kick the leather off the ball? They have picked 2 bosh merchants in midfield and even if they get the ball to the wings Bowe/Trimble are more than a match for Hougaard/Pietersen. Kirchner at 15, is a player I've never rated that highly TBH.

              All bias and blinkers aside, can see us winning this one if we get the set pieces right and the backrow is up to the task....and Murray plays more like in the Edinburgh game not the Racing game...

              Ireland to win a tight game IMO.
              "Ne jamais perdre sa passsionne...ou s'en, éloigner vite!!!!..EC

              Comment


                hmm +15.5 seems big alright anyways a very good piece by kurt mcQuilkin

                Mattie McGrath wanna-be

                Comment


                  ire/sa total points line at 42.5 think the unders might be worth a look,anyone know if there's a man of the match market for this game anywhere?
                  Mattie McGrath wanna-be

                  Comment


                    4 pt spread with backing SA is easy money IMO. Should be 8 IMO

                    Comment


                      the boks getting banged of the boards at this stage in to 4/11 with some firms and 4/9 gen. for the match win.the handicap line is now at -6 with most,sexy johnnys total match points is drawn at 10.5 with overs @ 1/1 (unders @ 8/11.)with laddies,the sin bin is 8/13 yes and no @ 6/5 with pp.ended up sticking a few quid on the total points with under 42.5.
                      Mattie McGrath wanna-be

                      Comment


                        Cashed out both bets for a decent profit. Fucking hate betting against Ireland.
                        ‘IF YOU had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.” Genghis Khan

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by V for Vendetta View Post
                          Cashed out both bets for a decent profit. Fucking hate betting against Ireland.
                          YA can feel bad with the early price was great opportunity to lay off and profit.

                          Comment


                            Was looking bad for even the straight up win market but as any irish fan knows the inevitable happened and we couldnt score in the last 40.

                            Delighted for Macarthy some of his tackles were huge deserves more caps great connacht servant.
                            Rog kicking the ball away when we had to keep possession give the man his watch Zebo played well
                            Handicap was -3 midweek and shortened always good to get on early long term makes huge difference.
                            thats 6 losses in a row garden gnome kidney please go.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by SICKPUPPY View Post
                              Was looking bad for even the straight up win market but as any irish fan knows the inevitable happened and we couldnt score in the last 40.

                              Delighted for Macarthy some of his tackles were huge deserves more caps great connacht servant.
                              Rog kicking the ball away when we had to keep possession give the man his watch Zebo played well
                              Handicap was -3 midweek and shortened always good to get on early long term makes huge difference.
                              thats 6 losses in a row garden gnome kidney please go.

                              From a betting perspective SA were much weaker then I thought they would be. I was glad I traded out as Ireland had to run out of steam and leadership to lose. Kidney has to go but he won't be pushed.
                              ‘IF YOU had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.” Genghis Khan

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by V for Vendetta View Post
                                From a betting perspective SA were much weaker then I thought they would be. I was glad I traded out as Ireland had to run out of steam and leadership to lose. Kidney has to go but he won't be pushed.
                                Just a guess but the beast not playing with cardiac problems would surely have upset the players.
                                They were asleep in first half obv bollocking half time worked and Lambie was poor at 10.
                                Frogs to scrum the ozzies off the park and get the only scalp from southern hempishpere.

                                Comment


                                  bent played well when he came in,would obviously like to see a home grown but what can you do at least this time it was the right decision i think,game against the pumas will be interesting they played really well against wales with plenty of attacking platforms and strategys(grubbers,garryowens,dropgoals)made hard to read and defend against,at least i got the unders up,was thinking of the second half being the highest scoring @ 4/5 with pp could be worth a few quid in the sco/nz tomorrow,reckon the scots could be all heart before sticking up the white flag.the hcp is 26 and the total points is around 50 reckon the second half being the highest scoring half looks the best of the trio.
                                  Mattie McGrath wanna-be

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by amberleaf View Post
                                    bent played well when he came in,would obviously like to see a home grown but what can you do at least this time it was the right decision i think,game against the pumas will be interesting they played really well against wales with plenty of attacking platforms and strategys(grubbers,garryowens,dropgoals)made hard to read and defend against,at least i got the unders up,was thinking of the second half being the highest scoring @ 4/5 with pp could be worth a few quid in the sco/nz tomorrow,reckon the scots could be all heart before sticking up the white flag.the hcp is 26 and the total points is around 50 reckon the second half being the highest scoring half looks the best of the trio.
                                    Think if you fancy the second half then the handicap -13pts for NZ has to be taken at Will hill and Betfred.
                                    Scotland like ourselves may have a good 40 even 50 mins in them but will tire in second half.
                                    Nick de luca in the center is a god awful player im sure Manu Nonu will look forward to facing him at some stage.

                                    Jim Hamilton and Richie gray both at 6 feet 8 will tire and have had injuries the all blacks fitness is unreal allowing them to dominate bigger packs esp later in games.
                                    Places are up for grabs in all balaks team so complacency will not be an issue.

                                    Weather is promised sunny and calm surely suiting the silky blacks off loading high tempo game.


                                    Tip stolen from planet rugby.
                                    Last edited by Guest; 11-11-12, 00:11.

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by SICKPUPPY View Post
                                      Just a guess but the beast not playing with cardiac problems would surely have upset the players.
                                      They were asleep in first half obv bollocking half time worked and Lambie was poor at 10.
                                      Frogs to scrum the ozzies off the park and get the only scalp from southern hempishpere.
                                      Nearly scrummed them back home demolished them up front very impressive looking french side.
                                      The lions will be heavy favs for a series win unless oz can find some scrummagers

                                      Comment


                                        So what's the bet this weekend sportsfans?
                                        ‘IF YOU had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.” Genghis Khan

                                        Comment


                                          What price France for the 6N?

                                          Comment


                                            Originally posted by KevIRL View Post
                                            What price France for the 6N?
                                            3/1 best price with Sky Bet and Totesport.

                                            Comment


                                              Originally posted by thedini View Post
                                              3/1 best price with Sky Bet and Totesport.
                                              Snappage imo, streets ahead of the rest. Away game with England isnt great though

                                              Comment


                                                Originally posted by KevIRL View Post
                                                Snappage imo, streets ahead of the rest. Away game with England isnt great though
                                                I would fancy England this season I have to admit but a 3to1 it is certainly nice odds.

                                                Price on us getting the wooden spoon. Wales, france and England I think will all take us with ease. Heroic scotland at home with laidlow fit will take us. Italy in Rome grinding us down and we fail to turn up - could be tight.

                                                Comment


                                                  was thinking of the second half being the highest scoring @ 4/5 with pp could be worth a few quid in the sco/nz tomorrow,reckon the scots could be all heart before sticking up the white flag.the hcp is 26 and the total points is around 50 reckon the second half being the highest scoring half looks the best of the trio.

                                                  meh 13 missed tackles in the first half by the scots put this one well out of reach,suppose when you think of it the all blacks were always going to put 40+ on the board,just didn't think they would do in the first half.some crazy looking stats from opta,with Possession & Territory given the final score of 22-51 then again the offloads/tackles missed tell the story

                                                  scotland New Zealand
                                                  50% Possession 50%
                                                  57% Territory 43%
                                                  3(2) Scrums won (lost) 8(0)
                                                  11(4) Line-outs won (lost)7(1)
                                                  8 Pens conceded 12
                                                  13 Turnovers conceded 13
                                                  74/82 Rucks won 75/79
                                                  20 Possession kicked 21
                                                  71(21) Tackles made (missed) 114(11)
                                                  1 Offloads 14
                                                  2 Line breaks 7
                                                  Mattie McGrath wanna-be

                                                  Comment


                                                    Originally posted by KevIRL View Post
                                                    Snappage imo, streets ahead of the rest. Away game with England isnt great though
                                                    i hope you're right, but i would hold off tbh. This team once again is a work in progress, there's going to be a lot of chopping and changing in the next few months, so whether they will get it right for the six nations is pretty uncertain.

                                                    Definitely going in the right direction and plenty of new blood there but you'll see good and bad days, and the years where their tough games are abroad, they usually slip up.

                                                    3/1 seems on the skinny side after just one good result, and i'd be surprised if that didn't drift by the time the six nations comes around

                                                    Comment


                                                      World rankings calculator.



                                                      Looks like our game with Argentina will be a straight shoot out for the last place in the top 8.

                                                      Although wins for Scotland over SA or Argentina over France could make it even more complicated

                                                      Comment


                                                        Originally posted by KevIRL View Post
                                                        World rankings calculator.



                                                        Looks like our game with Argentina will be a straight shoot out for the last place in the top 8.

                                                        Although wins for Scotland over SA or Argentina over France could make it even more complicated
                                                        You're reading it wrong.

                                                        Argies are 8th and we are 7th. Provided the Scots lose against SA we're fine and the game between us and the Argies will be academic for who is 8th and who is 7th.
                                                        ‘IF YOU had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.” Genghis Khan

                                                        Comment


                                                          Originally posted by V for Vendetta View Post
                                                          You're reading it wrong.

                                                          Argies are 8th and we are 7th. Provided the Scots lose against SA we're fine and the game between us and the Argies will be academic for who is 8th and who is 7th.
                                                          Nope

                                                          Our game v Fiji isnt included on that list.

                                                          If you enter
                                                          Scotland losing to SA by 1-15
                                                          Argentina losing to Fra by 1-15
                                                          Argentina beating Ireland by 1-15
                                                          Scotland beating Tonga by more than 15

                                                          It returns

                                                          6. Argentina 81.22302
                                                          7. Wales 80.597
                                                          8. Scotland 77.99216
                                                          9. Ireland 77.83278

                                                          Obv Wales are a bit lower as I've left our their games completely

                                                          EDIT - A Scottish loss by more than 15 v SA would put us into 8th

                                                          Comment


                                                            Originally posted by KevIRL View Post
                                                            Nope

                                                            Our game v Fiji isnt included on that list.

                                                            If you enter
                                                            Scotland losing to SA by 1-15
                                                            Argentina losing to Fra by 1-15
                                                            Argentina beating Ireland by 1-15
                                                            Scotland beating Tonga by more than 15

                                                            It returns

                                                            6. Argentina 81.22302
                                                            7. Wales 80.597
                                                            8. Scotland 77.99216
                                                            9. Ireland 77.83278

                                                            Obv Wales are a bit lower as I've left our their games completely

                                                            EDIT - A Scottish loss by more than 15 v SA would put us into 8th
                                                            Ah i'm sorry you're projecting it forward I see. Personally I think the Scots might take a hammering from SA in which case we're fine. If not then a shoot out looks likely alright. Meh I'd prefer to be 9th going into the WC and playing well then how we're currently playing.

                                                            Whatever hastens the change over of personnel at this stage as new bodies and voices are badly needed and the more time they have to grow at international level the better.
                                                            ‘IF YOU had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.” Genghis Khan

                                                            Comment


                                                              Originally posted by V for Vendetta View Post
                                                              So what's the bet this weekend sportsfans?
                                                              Can feel like talking to ones self here at times.

                                                              France were a joy to behold at the weekend the power and pace they have is frightening
                                                              and also real strength in depth the new guys really stepped up. Michalak played great stuff and the quality in the front row is awesome.

                                                              Its a real shame there not playing the all blacks would be up for revenge for the way they were robbed in the world cup final.
                                                              Lucky for us Argentina are up next for the french in what will be a massively physical game while we play fiji possibly kidney could pick a strong team for this even if its not a cap match.

                                                              Australia had no answer to the French scrum getting penalised and giving away a penalty try.

                                                              Graham Rowntree will be walking a round with a horn all week after seeing the job France done of oz front row.
                                                              England will make hay at the scrum and id fancy then -5 or 6 points to win.

                                                              Dont think South Africa will be asleep in the first 40 against Scotland and will be gunning for revenge after tasting defeat last they played there.
                                                              Scots have a big backrow who can compete so wait for teams before betting.

                                                              We play Fiji who were terrible against England these men are born to run not scrum and lineout watch them play sevens rugby. Whatever team we put out should beat them convincinly.

                                                              Hard know know with France and Argies what teams are picked Argies wont capitulate like oz and will be buoyed by big win in Cardiff id say spread will be France -13 - 14 .

                                                              Italy V New zealand god help Italy possibly with Read and Messam to partner Macaw in the backrow. Adam Thompson for his retarded foot on a scots head probably wont get any more game time.

                                                              The new guys for all blacks played great id fancy them to score 60 pts in this one provided its not bucketing rain cant see Italy scoring trys and id have a punt at up to minus -33 -34.
                                                              regardless whos picked places are there to be won and these guys dont do complacency.
                                                              Handicap for scots game was -26 this one 33 or 34 if Carter plays its puntable.
                                                              9 from 10 kicks last week and his overall play was super too.

                                                              Comment


                                                                Patrick's h-caps are just up, Mick.
                                                                Fra -10
                                                                SA -11
                                                                Eng -5
                                                                NZ -31
                                                                all 10/11 either side

                                                                Comment


                                                                  Originally posted by kpnuts View Post
                                                                  Patrick's h-caps are just up, Mick.
                                                                  Fra -10
                                                                  SA -11
                                                                  Eng -5
                                                                  NZ -31
                                                                  all 10/11 either side
                                                                  Sunny in Rome on saturday max bet all blacks esp if can get better than -31 Nothing better than seeing them guys run in lots of trys Italy struggled against Tonga set piece bailed them out gonna get ravaged on sat.Blacks by 40

                                                                  Fancy France too was great to see French crowd in full voice weather 10celcius with 50% chance light rain.

                                                                  Wondering possibly Argies might rest some players playing us the week after they hate us with a passion it was england not us in the Falklands. I fancy that price to decrease France achieved a near perfect mix of power and flair saturday its good for the game.
                                                                  Frogs by 16

                                                                  And england Oz will get scrumed to death considering we done it to them England at home will the oz team really looks tired and like ourselves have to small of a squad.
                                                                  England by 11.
                                                                  Last edited by Guest; 12-11-12, 21:32.

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    Originally posted by KevIRL View Post
                                                                    What price France for the 6N?
                                                                    Originally posted by thedini View Post
                                                                    3/1 best price with Sky Bet and Totesport.
                                                                    france are as big as 8/1 for the grand slam,(7/1 most firms)italy away first with wales at home before england away,was thinking of buying in before hand with a possible lay off of the stake before or even during the england game.they then face ireland away before scotland at home.france will beat italy and should beat wales at home reckon they'll be half the price or less by the time they play in Twickenham.

                                                                    right now on pp you can get france/wales/england all to win @ 5/4 for next weekend matches(given the reasoning from the lads above,not too shabby)

                                                                    not at all sure about the scot/bok one tbh,scotland at least had 50% Possession and 4 lost line out from 11,they'll work on that cant see that happening again.dont think the boks will be any where close in the running/off load game as n/z were last sunday.which with the number of missed tackles was scotlands down fall,as s/p posted have to wait for the teams but if robinson gives the full whack 10/3 could be a little value to me...any opinion on this
                                                                    Mattie McGrath wanna-be

                                                                    Comment


                                                                      Originally posted by amberleaf View Post
                                                                      france are as big as 8/1 for the grand slam,(7/1 most firms)italy away first with wales at home before england away,was thinking of buying in before hand with a possible lay off of the stake before or even during the england game.they then face ireland away before scotland at home.france will beat italy and should beat wales at home reckon they'll be half the price or less by the time they play in Twickenham.

                                                                      right now on pp you can get france/wales/england all to win @ 5/4 for next weekend matches(given the reasoning from the lads above,not too shabby)

                                                                      not at all sure about the scot/bok one tbh,scotland at least had 50% Possession and 4 lost line out from 11,they'll work on that cant see that happening again.dont think the boks will be any where close in the running/off load game as n/z were last sunday.which with the number of missed tackles was scotlands down fall,as s/p posted have to wait for the teams but if robinson gives the full whack 10/3 could be a little value to me...any opinion on this
                                                                      Scotland are very poor though there two tries one an intercept other ball flew outta a ruck when nz were down to 14.
                                                                      Boks backline besides Pietersen lacks creativity but i couldnt back the Scots with someone elses money even.

                                                                      If youd a big tank id back the crap outta France for a slam at 8/1 they will annialate Italy and should have way to much for Wales at home big price drop then and can green up or go for the gamble.
                                                                      Last edited by Guest; 12-11-12, 23:49.

                                                                      Comment


                                                                        seems pocock wont be back for oz v england,Douglas also not playing(due to knee and mother illness) and Simmons due to be cited tomorrow for a tip tackle,england -6 now from 5.5 and pp the only firm holding 4/9 according to oc.
                                                                        Mattie McGrath wanna-be

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          Originally posted by SICKPUPPY View Post
                                                                          Scotland are very poor though there two tries one an intercept other ball flew outta a ruck when nz were down to 14.
                                                                          Boks backline besides Pietersen lacks creativity but i couldnt back the Scots with someone elses money even.

                                                                          If youd a big tank id back the crap outta France for a slam at 8/1 they will annialate Italy and should have way to much for Wales at home big price drop then and can green up or go for the gamble.

                                                                          Scotland scored 3 tries. They pressurised the kiwi defence and enjoyed lots of territory and posession. There's a bit of lazy thinking in saying that Scotland were given their scores although Carter's intercept pass was an uncharacteristic brainfart. That being said I agree with you in regard to Scotland's defence. I predicted before the match that they would struggle to contain the NZ attack and I wasn't disappointed. I had NZ backed to beat a 25.5 handicap and they made me sweat for it.
                                                                          Scotland v South Africa will be a different game though. If the sweatie front row stand up to the saffas as well as they did to the kiwis, if they can get their maul working well again and lineout delivers then I believe it will be a close game. Scotland have big game players now in Gray and Denton and match winners in Hogg and McVisser. We must also consider that South Africa dont have a 10 of the calibre of Carter or the outside backs to exploit Scotland the way NZ did. 11 points is a decent sized handicap and we can usually rely on Scotland to keep going for 80 minutes. I dont think South Africa showed much on Saturday to make me believe they will beat anyone convincingly. The only thing that match proved was how weak in attack Ireland are.
                                                                          Assuming full strength sides on Saturday I'm going to back Scotland to beat the 11 point handicap
                                                                          Last edited by conspicuous; 13-11-12, 14:12.

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            Originally posted by conspicuous View Post
                                                                            Scotland scored 3 tries. They pressurised the kiwi defence and enjoyed lots of territory and posession. There's a bit of lazy thinking in saying that Scotland were given their scores although Carter's intercept pass was an uncharacteristic brainfart. That being said I agree with you in regard to Scotland's defence. I predicted before the match that they would struggle to contain the NZ attack and I wasn't disappointed. I had NZ backed to beat a 25.5 handicap and they made me sweat for it.
                                                                            Scotland v South Africa will be a different game though. If the sweatie front row stand up to the saffas as well as they did to the kiwis, if they can get their maul working well again and lineout delivers then I believe it will be a close game. Scotland have big game players now in Gray and Denton and match winners in Hogg and McVisser. We must also consider that South Africa dont have a 10 of the calibre of Carter or the outside backs to exploit Scotland the way NZ did. 11 points is a decent sized handicap and we can usually rely on Scotland to keep going for 80 minutes. I dont think South Africa showed much on Saturday to make me believe they will beat anyone convincingly. The only thing that match proved was how weak in attack Ireland are.
                                                                            Assuming full strength sides on Saturday I'm going to back Scotland to beat the 11 point handicap
                                                                            Its not lazy its true for all the posession and territory very little return besides two trys from Kiwi mistakes.
                                                                            The scots have the penetration of a limp dick

                                                                            Comment


                                                                              Originally posted by SICKPUPPY View Post
                                                                              Its not lazy its true for all the posession and territory very little return besides two trys from Kiwi mistakes.
                                                                              The scots have the penetration of a limp dick
                                                                              Youre still ignoring the third try they scored and the penalty or maybe I'm imagining them. It's rare a team scores 3 tries or more agaisnt the ABs. Mistakes come from pressure at this level and Scotland did well to force pressure on NZ for sustained periods of the game. Posession and territory will count for a lot more against SA than it did against NZ. Scotland are no world beaters but the dynamics of next weekends match should suit them. Theyve a pretty good recent record against the Boks at Murrayfield too. They have 2 wins over them at this venue in the last decade and ran them very close in 2008. They lost heavily in a warm up match for RWC 07] a tournament SA went on to win and in 2004 when Scottish rugby was at its nadir under Matt Williams.

                                                                              Comment


                                                                                Originally posted by conspicuous View Post
                                                                                Youre still ignoring the third try they scored and the penalty or maybe I'm imagining them. It's rare a team scores 3 tries or more agaisnt the ABs. Mistakes come from pressure at this level and Scotland did well to force pressure on NZ for sustained periods of the game. Posession and territory will count for a lot more against SA than it did against NZ. Scotland are no world beaters but the dynamics of next weekends match should suit them. Theyve a pretty good recent record against the Boks at Murrayfield too. They have 2 wins over them at this venue in the last decade and ran them very close in 2008. They lost heavily in a warm up match for RWC 07] a tournament SA went on to win and in 2004 when Scottish rugby was at its nadir under Matt Williams.
                                                                                http://www.rugbydata.com/scotland/so...ca/gamesplayed
                                                                                No offence dude a penalty woop dee woo.
                                                                                Im not debating on here all and not an expert but scotland are shyte.

                                                                                They also conceded over 50 points are you ignoring that?
                                                                                Watching that match probably be worse than the dire crap we served up.

                                                                                Hogg is a fine young player iand Visser is a flyer getting the ball to them is the problem with there god awful centers nic de luca muck player.

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                  Originally posted by SICKPUPPY View Post
                                                                                  No offence dude a penalty woop dee woo.
                                                                                  Im not debating on here all and not an expert but scotland are shyte.

                                                                                  They also conceded over 50 points are you ignoring that?
                                                                                  Watching that match probably be worse than the dire crap we served up.

                                                                                  Hogg is a fine young player iand Visser is a flyer getting the ball to them is the problem with there god awful centers nic de luca muck player.
                                                                                  Now Mr.Puppy don't be getting upset because a new guy comes along and challenges some of your views. I am Conspicuous and I am here to help Ive been following your posts and you obviously know your stuff and have made soem very good, well reasoned predictions. However I think you might just be dismissing Scotland a bit too quickly here and giving the Boks a bit too mich credit.
                                                                                  I'll ignore the comment on the Scotland penalty as you know well I was referring to Scotland's general potency in attack rather than that score in isolation. You also know I dealt with Scotlands weakness in defence. I certainly didnt ignore the 50 points conceded as you said. Indeed it was the makeup of Scotlands 3/4 line that convinced me to back NZ in the handicap betting last weekend. My reasoning for backing Scotland [+11] is that if tehy enjoy the same amount of posession and territory they wont concede anything close to 50 points. This is a reasonable assumption as SA dont have Dan Carter or outside backs like NZ. They also dont have a recent history of scoring prolifically while their attitude to AIs is often indifferent [as shown against Ireland]
                                                                                  Scotland will be targetting this match as a realistic chance of a SH scalp and they have a decent record in AIs against SH opposition. I wont be putting my house on this match but I'll back Scotland to give it a lash and keep it within 10 points

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                    Yer grand dude thread can be dead at times more opinions the better.
                                                                                    I just do it out of boredom cant watch porn 24/7
                                                                                    I dont post on any other forums but do read others and try get some good info.

                                                                                    My last few predictions ave been really close couple of points difference either way.

                                                                                    Poople even casual punters must realise getting value for your bet is huge any profit is good.
                                                                                    Constantly see on boards.ie rugby guys just bet on one bookmaker cos its handy impossible make money i think if you dont take best price available.

                                                                                    Its obv a leak of mine just rarely back a team as bad as the scots and im trying to get one early if i do have a bet and a good clue about a team.
                                                                                    Like England were -5pts @10/11 now -6 across the board.
                                                                                    Thats going to be probably-8 come kick off Douglas second row is gone his mother had a stroke and Simmons is out for a dangerous tackle and England jingoism will mean they will be punted heavily on.

                                                                                    Must fire up my betfair see if can trade off some stuff if i start to punt any way more than i do.

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                      I've been enjoying the thread a lot in the last few weeks FWIW - you're definitely not talking to yourself!

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                        Originally posted by Keane View Post
                                                                                        I've been enjoying the thread a lot in the last few weeks FWIW - you're definitely not talking to yourself!
                                                                                        +1 always read this thread. i don't watch enough rugby any more (or any other sport for that matter ) to comment too much, but keep a close eye on the French team and press, so that's really all i try and relay

                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                          Originally posted by Keane View Post
                                                                                          I've been enjoying the thread a lot in the last few weeks FWIW - you're definitely not talking to yourself!
                                                                                          Same same

                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                            Originally posted by SICKPUPPY View Post
                                                                                            Yer grand dude thread can be dead at times more opinions the better.
                                                                                            I just do it out of boredom cant watch porn 24/7
                                                                                            I dont post on any other forums but do read others and try get some good info.

                                                                                            My last few predictions ave been really close couple of points difference either way.

                                                                                            Poople even casual punters must realise getting value for your bet is huge any profit is good.
                                                                                            Constantly see on boards.ie rugby guys just bet on one bookmaker cos its handy impossible make money i think if you dont take best price available.

                                                                                            Its obv a leak of mine just rarely back a team as bad as the scots and im trying to get one early if i do have a bet and a good clue about a team.
                                                                                            Like England were -5pts @10/11 now -6 across the board.
                                                                                            Thats going to be probably-8 come kick off Douglas second row is gone his mother had a stroke and Simmons is out for a dangerous tackle and England jingoism will mean they will be punted heavily on.

                                                                                            Must fire up my betfair see if can trade off some stuff if i start to punt any way more than i do.

                                                                                            I've been posting on Planet Rugby for years, you probably recognize my username. I started a betting thread over there and while its been going very well with predictions, we are a bit short on contributers . Like here it feels like you're talking to yourself sometimes .
                                                                                            On the other side of the coin, if the rugby betting market was that big we wouldn't have our friends the other side of the counter making so many mistakes. Saracens[-6] v Racing in the second weekend of the HEC was the sports bet of the year imo. It was backed out to [-9] come kick off and Saracens eventually won by 17. England and Argentina were both wrongly handicapped last weekend too. Both matches seemed very obvious too. The bookies havn't adjusted for Ulster's improvement this year either, I think they've smashed every handicap bar the Munster match.
                                                                                            As regards betting on different sites, its a must given the range of handicaps on offer. Just looking at oddschecker.com now, PP have Argentina at +9 while Laddies have them +11. As I thought, Italy are being nibbled at and are now a solid +30 with all bookmakers having been +32 mostly last night. For all Italy's limitations they are rarely hammered on home turf and the ABs will have most of the second string out. Obviously they will be still very strong but there may have continuity problems and will do well to beat that handicap imo

                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                              Date Venue Score Victor Comments
                                                                                              17 November 2012 Stadio Olimpico, Rome – 2012 Autumn International
                                                                                              14 November 2009 San Siro Stadium, Milan 6 – 20 New Zealand
                                                                                              27 June 2009 AMI Stadium, Christchurch 27 – 6 New Zealand
                                                                                              8 September 2007 Stade Vélodrome, Marseille 76 – 14 New Zealand 2007 Rugby World Cup
                                                                                              13 November 2004 Stadio Flaminio, Rome 10 – 59 New Zealand
                                                                                              11 October 2003 Colonial Stadium, Melbourne 70 – 7 New Zealand 2003 Rugby World Cup
                                                                                              8 June 2002 Waikato Stadium, Hamilton 64 – 10 New Zealand
                                                                                              25 November 2000 Stadio Luigi Ferraris, Genoa 19 – 56 New Zealand
                                                                                              14 October 1999 McAlpine Stadium, Huddersfield 101 – 3 New Zealand 1999 Rugby World Cup
                                                                                              28 October 1995 Stadio Renato Dall'Ara, Bologna 6 – 70 New Zealand
                                                                                              13 October 1991 Welford Road Stadium, Leicester 31 – 21 New Zealand 1991 Rugby World Cup
                                                                                              22 May 1987 Eden Park, Auckland 70 – 6 New Zealand 1987 Rugby World Cup

                                                                                              Besides the last two games they have copped some hidings off all blacks.
                                                                                              I thought Hansen was picking a very strong team for this so will wait and see.

                                                                                              Dont think Italy have improved much over the years besides a decent scrum useless half backs bad imports of kiwis ozzies and south africans and argies.

                                                                                              Its gonna be sunny in Rome on saturday and some heroic scrums and mauls wont be enough to cover 30 point handicap imo of course.
                                                                                              Last edited by Guest; 13-11-12, 21:07.

                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                                Originally posted by SICKPUPPY View Post
                                                                                                Date Venue Score Victor Comments
                                                                                                17 November 2012 Stadio Olimpico, Rome – 2012 Autumn International
                                                                                                14 November 2009 San Siro Stadium, Milan 6 – 20 New Zealand
                                                                                                27 June 2009 AMI Stadium, Christchurch 27 – 6 New Zealand
                                                                                                8 September 2007 Stade Vélodrome, Marseille 76 – 14 New Zealand 2007 Rugby World Cup
                                                                                                13 November 2004 Stadio Flaminio, Rome 10 – 59 New Zealand
                                                                                                11 October 2003 Colonial Stadium, Melbourne 70 – 7 New Zealand 2003 Rugby World Cup
                                                                                                8 June 2002 Waikato Stadium, Hamilton 64 – 10 New Zealand
                                                                                                25 November 2000 Stadio Luigi Ferraris, Genoa 19 – 56 New Zealand
                                                                                                14 October 1999 McAlpine Stadium, Huddersfield 101 – 3 New Zealand 1999 Rugby World Cup
                                                                                                28 October 1995 Stadio Renato Dall'Ara, Bologna 6 – 70 New Zealand
                                                                                                13 October 1991 Welford Road Stadium, Leicester 31 – 21 New Zealand 1991 Rugby World Cup
                                                                                                22 May 1987 Eden Park, Auckland 70 – 6 New Zealand 1987 Rugby World Cup

                                                                                                Besides the last two games they have copped some hidings off all blacks.
                                                                                                I thought Hansen was picking a very strong team for this so will wait and see.

                                                                                                Dont think Italy have improved much over the years besides a decent scrum useless half backs bad imports of kiwis ozzies and south africans and argies.

                                                                                                Its gonna be sunny in Rome on saturday and some heroic scrums and mauls wont be enough to cover 30 point handicap imo of course.
                                                                                                Not being funny but I was actually wondering if you were posting them results to counter my argument or to agree with it. I fail to see how results from 2004 or earlier are relevant to this discussion. The last two encounters produced 14 and 21 point wins for NZ. The hammering inflicted on Italy at RWC 07 can be explained by Italy waving a white flag to stay fresh for the Scotland match, which was their pivotal group qualifier. Anything further back doesn't count imo . More relevant as a form guide is Italy's home internationals over the last couple of years

                                                                                                Here's their recent home results v 6N + TRC Teams

                                                                                                17/5/12 Italy 13 Soctland 6
                                                                                                11/2/12 Italy 15 England 19
                                                                                                12/3/11 Italy 22 France 21
                                                                                                26/2/11 Italy 16 Wales 24
                                                                                                5/2/11 Italy 11 Ireland 13
                                                                                                20/11/10 Italy 14 Australia 32
                                                                                                13/11/10 Italy 16 Argentina 22

                                                                                                Not too many hammerings there in fairness and they have a couple of scalps and moral wins. Obviously NZ are on a different level but the point being shown here is that there's a consistency about them and robustness that they lack away from home. I see their limitations as much as you do and I dont see any major improvements as an attacking side in recent year. However this is handicap betting so our only concern is will they be able to keep the losing margin within 30 points. I'm waiting on team sheets before making any predictions but I can see myself having a punt here
                                                                                                Last edited by conspicuous; 13-11-12, 21:37.

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                                                                                                  FWIW, I think that taking the + side of one-off LONG handicaps has been a pretty decent winner in recent times.

                                                                                                  Italy treat this as a cup game, will slow NZ down for a fair bit. HT + could be an option...

                                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                                    Originally posted by Emmet View Post
                                                                                                    FWIW, I think that taking the + side of one-off LONG handicaps has been a pretty decent winner in recent times.

                                                                                                    Italy treat this as a cup game, will slow NZ down for a fair bit. HT + could be an option...

                                                                                                    http://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-uni...-time-handicap

                                                                                                    Italy have a very impressive record in beating HT handicaps. 15 would be much nicer but 14 seems reasonable. I'm waiting to see teamsheets before doing anything. This is their predicted starting 15 by a kiwi psoter who is usually in the know

                                                                                                    15. Barrett
                                                                                                    14. Jane
                                                                                                    13. c. Smith
                                                                                                    12. Nonu
                                                                                                    11. Gear
                                                                                                    10. Cruden
                                                                                                    9. A. Smith

                                                                                                    8. Read
                                                                                                    7. Cane
                                                                                                    6. Messam
                                                                                                    5. Williams
                                                                                                    4. Rettalick
                                                                                                    3. Faumuina
                                                                                                    2. Mealamu
                                                                                                    1. Woodcock

                                                                                                    No McAwe, Carter or Dagg but still oozing class across their backline and in talisman Read. Italy can hurt them in the tight 5 though and slow the game down to their level. If they succeed they can keep the margin to 18-25. If not it will be 50+. I expect Italy to be committed and follow a highly structured gameplan to stop NZ playing rugby

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                                                                                                      boks line up v scotland

                                                                                                      15-Zane Kirchner 14-JP Pietersen, 13-Juan de Jongh, 12-Jean de Villiers, 11-Francois Hougaard, 10-Pat Lambie, 9-Ruan Pienaar, 8-Duane Vermeulen, 7-Willem Alberts, 6-Francois Louw, 5-Juandre Kruger, 4-Eben Etzebeth, 3-Jannie du Plessis, 2-Adriaan Strauss, 1-Gurthro Steenkamp
                                                                                                      Replacements: 16-Schalk Brits, 17-Heinke van der Merwe, 18-CJ van der Linde, 19-Flip van der Merwe, 20-Marcell Coetzee, 21-Morne Steyn, 22-Jaco Taute, 23-Lwazi Mvovo
                                                                                                      Mattie McGrath wanna-be

                                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                                        Originally posted by amberleaf View Post
                                                                                                        boks line up v scotland

                                                                                                        15-Zane Kirchner 14-JP Pietersen, 13-Juan de Jongh, 12-Jean de Villiers, 11-Francois Hougaard, 10-Pat Lambie, 9-Ruan Pienaar, 8-Duane Vermeulen, 7-Willem Alberts, 6-Francois Louw, 5-Juandre Kruger, 4-Eben Etzebeth, 3-Jannie du Plessis, 2-Adriaan Strauss, 1-Gurthro Steenkamp
                                                                                                        Replacements: 16-Schalk Brits, 17-Heinke van der Merwe, 18-CJ van der Linde, 19-Flip van der Merwe, 20-Marcell Coetzee, 21-Morne Steyn, 22-Jaco Taute, 23-Lwazi Mvovo

                                                                                                        So Steenkamp and De Jong in to the side for VDL and Taute. De Jong has pace and an excellent step so wont weaken the side at all and Steenkamp is accomplished scrummager. Scotland team being announced tomorrow

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                                                                                                          Im very impressed with the team Rob Howley was named to play Samoa on Friday night. Captain Sam Warburton has been dropped and replaced by talented Scarlets openside Justin Tipuric. Ashley Beck and Dan Biggar have also been rewarded for strong club form. These changes should rejuvenate a Welsh side that went down badly to Argentina and I expect a strong showing. Im still trying to get information on the Samoan touring party but Wales[-9] @ evens from Sportingbet is looking very tempting


                                                                                                          Wales: Leigh Halfpenny; Alex Cuthbert, Ashley Beck, Jamie Roberts, George North; Dan Biggar, Mike Phillips; Paul James, Richard Hibbard, Aaron Jarvis, Bradley Davies, Ian Evans, Ryan Jones (Capt), Justin Tipuric, Toby Faletau

                                                                                                          Replacements: Ken Owens, Gethin Jenkins, Scott Andrews, Luke Charteris, Sam Warburton, Tavis Knoyle, Rhys Priestland, Scott Williams

                                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                                            Originally posted by amberleaf View Post
                                                                                                            boks line up v scotland

                                                                                                            15-Zane Kirchner 14-JP Pietersen, 13-Juan de Jongh, 12-Jean de Villiers, 11-Francois Hougaard, 10-Pat Lambie, 9-Ruan Pienaar, 8-Duane Vermeulen, 7-Willem Alberts, 6-Francois Louw, 5-Juandre Kruger, 4-Eben Etzebeth, 3-Jannie du Plessis, 2-Adriaan Strauss, 1-Gurthro Steenkamp
                                                                                                            Replacements: 16-Schalk Brits, 17-Heinke van der Merwe, 18-CJ van der Linde, 19-Flip van der Merwe, 20-Marcell Coetzee, 21-Morne Steyn, 22-Jaco Taute, 23-Lwazi Mvovo
                                                                                                            scotland

                                                                                                            Scotland : Stuart Hogg, Sean Lamont, Nick De Luca, Matt Scott, Tim Visser, Greig Laidlaw, Mike Blair, Ryan Grant, Ross Ford, Euan Murray, Richie Gray, Jim Hamilton, Alasdair Strokosch, Kelly Brown, David Denton.
                                                                                                            Replacements : Dougie Hall, Kyle Traynor, Geoff Cross, Alastair Kellock, John Barclay, Ruaridh Jackson, Peter Murchie.

                                                                                                            murray and denton starting
                                                                                                            Mattie McGrath wanna-be

                                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                                              Take Italy +15 in first half @ 10/11 http://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-uni...-time-handicap (Skybet)

                                                                                                              Take NZ -15 in the second half @ 10/11 http://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-uni...-half-handicap (betfred)

                                                                                                              Take 2nd half @ 4/5 http://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-uni...t-scoring-half (Skybet)

                                                                                                              profit
                                                                                                              Last edited by Emmet; 14-11-12, 21:41.

                                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                                                Originally posted by Emmet View Post
                                                                                                                Cheers for posting that. Makes more sense to back Italy in this market than {+31] for the full match given their history of beating half time caps

                                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                                  Fairplay lads, thread is really cranking up and some solid analysis getting posted.

                                                                                                                  Like Conspic (who has stopped lurking and finally decided to contribute..) I was looking for the Samoan team the minute I saw the Welsh team..Just saw it named on BBC a bit earlier...
                                                                                                                  They are no mugs I can tell you. George Pisi, Lemi and Fotuali'i are all playing decent stuff at the mo...and there is some serious beef in that pack...Census Johnston and his brother James who is sub prop both tip the scales at over 21 stone I believe! Fa'asavalu has been playing good stuff for Quins, Danny Leo is a good player.

                                                                                                                  They don't have enough quality overall to beat Wales though IMO..that -9 on SB is a decent mark I think.

                                                                                                                  Scots are capable of getting within the 11 pts v Boks certainly, but not too enthusiastic about it myself.

                                                                                                                  If that AB team conspic posted is accurate then...hmmm, I don't know actually. Italy were poor for long stretches last week against Tonga and only won by 5...they could get an edge in the scrum if Faumuina starts for NZ, but they will be dismembered in the backline by virtually whoever NZ pick I think...don't think Italy are picking their best team either..Semenzato not getting picked at 9 is ridiculous for example. I just think Italy are in a bit of a dip right now and will probably have a little nibble at NZ -30.

                                                                                                                  Argentina +10 @evens on SB is one I will hit also I think. France just pulverised Aus up front last week..aint going to happen this week though and with a semi-decent outhalf now allowing Hernandez to play fullback, Argentina are a formidable opponent home or away and to be honest I dread their arrival in Dublin. They have a good record against the French and have beaten them in France a few times in recent meetings also.

                                                                                                                  Depending on the team named, Ireland should be good for the -21 against Fiji.

                                                                                                                  Thats my 2 cents so far.
                                                                                                                  "Ne jamais perdre sa passsionne...ou s'en, éloigner vite!!!!..EC

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                                                                                                                    right now on pp you can get france/wales/england all to win @ 5/4 for next weekend matches(given the reasoning from the lads above,not too shabby) still there @ 11/10 think this is a great little bet.
                                                                                                                    have a decent bit on england -6 at this stage,think of all the handicap betting out there really like this,still some -6 there but now mainly -7/8
                                                                                                                    still unsure about scot/sa handicap and will Probably leave it,again like last weekend might have a look at the unders in the total points and have just a tiny nibble on Adriaan Strauss
                                                                                                                    for first try scorer @ 25/1(found € 23.78 in a account)
                                                                                                                    Mattie McGrath wanna-be

                                                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                                                      Originally posted by ciarraithuaidh View Post

                                                                                                                      Argentina +10 @evens on SB is one I will hit also I think. France just pulverised Aus up front last week..aint going to happen this week though and with a semi-decent outhalf now allowing Hernandez to play fullback, Argentina are a formidable opponent home or away and to be honest I dread their arrival in Dublin. They have a good record against the French and have beaten them in France a few times in recent meetings also.


                                                                                                                      just on this Hernandez isn't playing, nor is contepomi, both huge losses. Argentina is one of France's boogeymens but the shift in mental focus in the French squad is quite spectacular.

                                                                                                                      Maestri is back in the 2nd row, and i can see them putting a serious hurt on this Argentinian side. I'll be on the -10 side myself.

                                                                                                                      teams

                                                                                                                      France

                                                                                                                      15 - B. Dulin
                                                                                                                      14 - W. Fofana
                                                                                                                      13 - F. Fritz
                                                                                                                      12 - M. Mermoz
                                                                                                                      11 - V. Clerc
                                                                                                                      10 - F. Michalak
                                                                                                                      9 - M. Machenaud
                                                                                                                      8 - L. Picamoles
                                                                                                                      7 - F. Ouedraogo
                                                                                                                      6 - Y. Nyanga
                                                                                                                      5 - Y. Maestri
                                                                                                                      4 - P. Papé (Cap.)
                                                                                                                      3 - N. Mas
                                                                                                                      2 - D. Szarzewski
                                                                                                                      1 - Y. Forestier

                                                                                                                      Argentina

                                                                                                                      15 - L. Amorosino
                                                                                                                      14 - H. Agulla
                                                                                                                      13 - G. Tiesi
                                                                                                                      12 - M. Bosch
                                                                                                                      11 - J. Imhoff
                                                                                                                      10 - F. Sanchez
                                                                                                                      9 - M. Landajo
                                                                                                                      8 - L. Senatore
                                                                                                                      7 - J. Leguizamon
                                                                                                                      6 - J. Fernandez Lobbe (Cap.)
                                                                                                                      5 - J. Cabello
                                                                                                                      4 - M. Carizza
                                                                                                                      3 - J. Figallo
                                                                                                                      2 - E. Guinazu
                                                                                                                      1 - M. Ayerza

                                                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                                                        Have added to my portfolio

                                                                                                                        Originally posted by emmet02
                                                                                                                        Take Italy +15 in first half @ 10/11 http://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-uni...-time-handicap (Skybet)

                                                                                                                        Take NZ -15 in the second half @ 10/11 http://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-uni...-half-handicap (betfred)

                                                                                                                        Take 2nd half @ 4/5 http://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-uni...t-scoring-half (Skybet)

                                                                                                                        profit


                                                                                                                        Lines are changing btw

                                                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                                                          Originally posted by shrapnel View Post
                                                                                                                          just on this Hernandez isn't playing, nor is contepomi, both huge losses. Argentina is one of France's boogeymens but the shift in mental focus in the French squad is quite spectacular.

                                                                                                                          Maestri is back in the 2nd row, and i can see them putting a serious hurt on this Argentinian side. I'll be on the -10 side myself.

                                                                                                                          teams

                                                                                                                          France

                                                                                                                          15 - B. Dulin
                                                                                                                          14 - W. Fofana
                                                                                                                          13 - F. Fritz
                                                                                                                          12 - M. Mermoz
                                                                                                                          11 - V. Clerc
                                                                                                                          10 - F. Michalak
                                                                                                                          9 - M. Machenaud
                                                                                                                          8 - L. Picamoles
                                                                                                                          7 - F. Ouedraogo
                                                                                                                          6 - Y. Nyanga
                                                                                                                          5 - Y. Maestri
                                                                                                                          4 - P. Papé (Cap.)
                                                                                                                          3 - N. Mas
                                                                                                                          2 - D. Szarzewski
                                                                                                                          1 - Y. Forestier

                                                                                                                          Argentina

                                                                                                                          15 - L. Amorosino
                                                                                                                          14 - H. Agulla
                                                                                                                          13 - G. Tiesi
                                                                                                                          12 - M. Bosch
                                                                                                                          11 - J. Imhoff
                                                                                                                          10 - F. Sanchez
                                                                                                                          9 - M. Landajo
                                                                                                                          8 - L. Senatore
                                                                                                                          7 - J. Leguizamon
                                                                                                                          6 - J. Fernandez Lobbe (Cap.)
                                                                                                                          5 - J. Cabello
                                                                                                                          4 - M. Carizza
                                                                                                                          3 - J. Figallo
                                                                                                                          2 - E. Guinazu
                                                                                                                          1 - M. Ayerza
                                                                                                                          Crap, didn't realise Hernandez was out..massive loss. Contepomi not so much. Makes the spread seem more attractive on the side of Les Bleus alright.
                                                                                                                          "Ne jamais perdre sa passsionne...ou s'en, éloigner vite!!!!..EC

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