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    How the gambling forum should be run - a discussion

    Following on from this post here's a thread to discuss this forum and how it should be run.

    Please use this thread to highlight any issues you guys have or any you can see down the road. It's important we hear what you think. With all the work that's gone into getting the site off the ground this forum has largely been left to evolve naturally, without really many rules and regulations, it was just a place for regulars to discuss shite. Now it's evolved into something slightly different and since things are calming down generally and this forum seems to be gathering steam (although just hitting it's first inevitable speed-bump), we do need to look at it properly now, especially as we begin to gather more members that may not be known from boards.ie.

    I know you guys have already mentioned adding a mod in here, this is something we could do if necessary, what sort of role would they do, up until now there hasn't been much hassle out of this forum, is there an actual need for one??
    Last edited by Ste05; 19-02-10, 00:09.

    #2
    I suppose it's true that there wouldn't be much a mod could do. possibly the only thing they could do would be to keep a tally of all people who have sent/recieved. Spoofingjam mentioned in the other thread that lee_arama owed him money also which i never knew about so the mod would have to be someone who follows all threads.

    One rule there definately should be is that if you owe money to anyone. You shouldnt be allowed to place any further bets until that debt is paid.

    Also before a bet is made, if you don't happen to have money online at that moment in time. You must state exactly when the other person will be paid with 3 days being the maximum imo.

    Another possible thing you could do would be the same as some stakeing forums have. If the person is honest then he has a green mark under his username, then there are different colours all the way up to red. Red could mean that this person in untrustworthy in the transfers/gambling section. Not sure if you could apply that to this forum but as you asked, it's just a few ideas.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Eddie Durkin View Post
      I suppose it's true that there wouldn't be much a mod could do. possibly the only thing they could do would be to keep a tally of all people who have sent/recieved. Spoofingjam mentioned in the other thread that lee_arama owed him money also which i never knew about so the mod would have to be someone who follows all threads.
      No mod could do this, this forum is strictly at your own risk, and we couldn't appoint someone to do a tally of this kind, (a) cos it's too much work; and (b) people have to look after themselves.

      A way around this might be for there to be a post/thread where money owed is posted and recorded, it would then be upto people that are owed money to make sure that they post in the thread and PM a mod (beit a specific one for here, or one of us) and ask them to update it. This way everyone would be looking out for each other by posting what is owed where, but again it'd very much be a community policing itself, all we'd be able to do is try our best to keep the OP updated, but it would need everyone to do that.

      But generally people need to be savvy enough not to bet with people they don't know or have some way to find out who they are.

      Originally posted by Eddie Durkin View Post
      One rule there definately should be is that if you owe money to anyone. You shouldnt be allowed to place any further bets until that debt is paid.

      Also before a bet is made, if you don't happen to have money online at that moment in time. You must state exactly when the other person will be paid with 3 days being the maximum imo.
      Surely people should say before the bet is placed if they don't have money on-line beforehand. But again this is really down to the individual people to protect themselves.

      The no bets until their balance is cleared could be done, but if someone trusts the person this could easily be waved by consent of both parties, again the tally thread might come in handy for this.
      Originally posted by Eddie Durkin View Post
      Another possible thing you could do would be the same as some stakeing forums have. If the person is honest then he has a green mark under his username, then there are different colours all the way up to red. Red could mean that this person in untrustworthy in the transfers/gambling section. Not sure if you could apply that to this forum but as you asked, it's just a few ideas.
      Again this seems like ALOT of work, the best thing for this would be a vouching thread IMO. Again where the OP could be updated as and when vouches come in. But changing colours and all that would require lots of work installing that and to get it just to work in here is probably not even possible.

      Some feedback for you guys...

      Comment


        #4
        should be rules in place;

        if you transfer you should have money to ship back within 24hours unless both parties agree otherwise. if this is broken, post it publicly. let others no. from this point on, they shouldnt get bets placed by anyone (unless you dont like money)
        perhaps anyone new to the forum can ask people sum1 the know to pledge for them, this would appease the worries of others.
        if they are completely unknown they should be around the forum for awhile, and people should limit bet sizes with them until more trusted.

        All these are just suggestions. At the end of it all, the risk lies with those placing the bets. There's no real way for mods to control this - just make people aware of possible ways to avoid getting their fingers burned.
        GAA News Website

        Comment


          #5
          Like i said. They were just ideas.

          How about we get a list of all people who have done bets on here and transfered when they said they would. That would be a good start. As i said before i don't follow all threads but from what i have seen, people so far with a 100% record are...

          Myself
          Semibluff
          Tommygunne

          Im sure there are more but i have only been following the football thread.

          And just to make clear to people who possibly didn't see my first post about all this. I AM NOT applying to be the mod as i wouldn't have the time to commit. The ideal candidates for me would be Semibluff as he's well known and respected in the real world. And Tommygunne also who is 100% reliable imo even tho i don't know him.

          But as Ste said it would be alot to ask for someone to do it and there's not really enough people making regular bets that we need someone to police it.

          Comment


            #6
            Pretty sure there is an Itrader hack for Vbb which is essentially a one line feedback score under the username with the number of transactions completed and a link to their betting profile (like ebay ratings)

            IDK if it expensive or free or a route ye want to take etc.. Just throwing it out there.
            It is alot neater and clearer than I described.

            Comment


              #7
              I think the mods and the rules side of things should be kept out of it. It's a case of Caveat Bettor, only bet with those your trust.

              Obviously, shit still happens and maybe the reported post function could be used. If it continues, mods lock them out of gambling forum or the whole site

              Comment


                #8
                I do agree that a rule should be in place where if someone has monies outstanding they shouldnt be placing bets with someone else. There also should be a guideline as to when debts are paid up.

                Would some sort of short template help for transparency when placing a bet?

                Eg:
                Bet Details - Dublin Hurlers to beat Waterford
                Price - 6/4
                Amount - $50
                Bet/Lay - Bet
                Any monies outstanding currently - no
                Payment methods - Stars or Monybookers
                Might need to be fine tuned a bit, you guys know better. We can put in some sort of rules that must be followed here when making bets, but as Mellor as laid out above its bettors responsibility (to be fair you all seem aware of this anyway). If someone is shown to have lied when filling out the template however we can take sanctions.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I think limited access to people who provide a once off identity check to the mods, that way there is some recourse.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Howard_Finkel View Post
                    I think limited access to people who provide a once off identity check to the mods, that way there is some recourse.
                    There would still be no recourse in this country. Well legal anyways.
                    'Mental Toughness is doing the right thing for the team when it's not the best thing for you' - Bill Belichick

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by eagle eye View Post
                      There would still be no recourse in this country. Well legal anyways.
                      Lol exactly, would u try screw someone if they knew where u lived

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I suggest that there should be a welshers list stickied on the thread. Have it something like WARNING: Read before you take or make any bets.

                        I understand the mods can't do anything about a guy welshing. And you couldn't expect them to either.

                        I'd make rules regarding putting a name in that thread though. We should have rules regarding what has to be done before somebody can be deemed a welcher. I would suggest that you must pm the alleged welcher three times and wait three weeks, if there is no payment or no contact at that stage then I think its fair to put his name in there. If somebody does get back to you in that time period then he may ask for up to an extra week. At the end of the extra week then you can put his name in there if he hasn't paid up.

                        I also think that every bet that is taken should be quoted and the word booked underneath so that there is no question about it. The PM thing can get tricky so its best to have it in the thread and quoted so that its clear to everybody that the bet was taken.
                        'Mental Toughness is doing the right thing for the team when it's not the best thing for you' - Bill Belichick

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Howard_Finkel View Post
                          Lol exactly, would u try screw someone if they knew where u lived
                          I have never welshed on a bet in my life.

                          I wouldn't care if somebody knew where I lived though, I fear no man!
                          'Mental Toughness is doing the right thing for the team when it's not the best thing for you' - Bill Belichick

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Howard_Finkel View Post
                            I think limited access to people who provide a once off identity check to the mods, that way there is some recourse.
                            Originally posted by eagle eye View Post
                            There would still be no recourse in this country. Well legal anyways.
                            Originally posted by Howard_Finkel View Post
                            Lol exactly, would u try screw someone if they knew where u lived
                            Even IF we implemented some sort of identity check (which personally I'd be very against) under no circumstances would we give out personal details to anyone else.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by KevIRL View Post
                              Even IF we implemented some sort of identity check (which personally I'd be very against) under no circumstances would we give out personal details to anyone else.
                              I see what your doing here, you have the address so you lot plan on being debt collectors for a significant percentage

                              Your probably right about the identity checks, perhaps make a 50 post minimum for access or something similar

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Can we start up our own BBV in here?
                                'Mental Toughness is doing the right thing for the team when it's not the best thing for you' - Bill Belichick

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by KevIRL View Post
                                  I do agree that a rule should be in place where if someone has monies outstanding they shouldnt be placing bets with someone else. There also should be a guideline as to when debts are paid up.

                                  Would some sort of short template help for transparency when placing a bet?

                                  Eg:


                                  Might need to be fine tuned a bit, you guys know better. We can put in some sort of rules that must be followed here when making bets, but as Mellor as laid out above its bettors responsibility (to be fair you all seem aware of this anyway). If someone is shown to have lied when filling out the template however we can take sanctions.
                                  good idea - benefit is that it was state where some1 hs the money and the period of time itl take them to transfer in advance . . . and if this isnt met first off - then you can bring it up. Also recommend that people be willing to accept transfers on boyles/stars and tilt

                                  Originally posted by eagle eye View Post
                                  I suggest that there should be a welshers list stickied on the thread. Have it something like WARNING: Read before you take or make any bets.

                                  I understand the mods can't do anything about a guy welshing. And you couldn't expect them to either.

                                  I'd make rules regarding putting a name in that thread though. We should have rules regarding what has to be done before somebody can be deemed a welcher. I would suggest that you must pm the alleged welcher three times and wait three weeks, if there is no payment or no contact at that stage then I think its fair to put his name in there. If somebody does get back to you in that time period then he may ask for up to an extra week. At the end of the extra week then you can put his name in there if he hasn't paid up.

                                  I also think that every bet that is taken should be quoted and the word booked underneath so that there is no question about it. The PM thing can get tricky so its best to have it in the thread and quoted so that its clear to everybody that the bet was taken.
                                  three weeks is way too long and lenient. think of the other punters who could be getting pm'd and bets placed in the meantime whilst your not saying anything
                                  GAA News Website

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by KevIRL View Post

                                    Bet Details - Dublin Hurlers to beat Waterford
                                    Price - 6/4
                                    Amount - $50
                                    Bet/Lay - Bet
                                    Any monies outstanding currently - no
                                    Payment methods - Stars or Monybookers
                                    Racist

                                    I do think the above is a good idea. Another rule for the gambling forum perhaps should be that under no circumstance are you allowed to edit a post. If you make a mistake then post another post underneath it straight away. I assume the mods will take all suggestions on board and then put up some sort of a sticky?

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Semibluff View Post
                                      three weeks is way too long and lenient. think of the other punters who could be getting pm'd and bets placed in the meantime whilst your not saying anything
                                      3 weeks is dumb. 3 days imo as 3 days is more than enough. If it was going to take you longer then you should not be making bets in the first place.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Eddie Durkin View Post
                                        Racist

                                        I do think the above is a good idea. Another rule for the gambling forum perhaps should be that under no circumstance are you allowed to edit a post. If you make a mistake then post another post underneath it straight away. I assume the mods will take all suggestions on board and then put up some sort of a sticky?
                                        Editing is fine, we can check edit histories and so can check what was written previously and what was changed.

                                        I think Kev's idea is a really good one and could go a huge way to making things better...

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          I thought these threads were for trying to find a good bet and sharing, looking for second opinions/advice and so on and on, as regards to punting between each other I dont see the point.
                                          If someone is cash stuck or whatver and u know him and trust him, just place the bet for him rather than standing it urself.
                                          I fear from experience that theres only one way this can go if theres regular layers taking on regular punters.
                                          Disputes over $50-$100 can not be beneficial to anybody. More trouble than its worth surely.

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Its a good idea in theory. One person like chelsea. One person like United. They bet with each other, saves them going to bookie, and also means the winner will make an extra 10% or so on the bet.

                                            It works in 2+2, and placing bets with people you know is the same theory as playing poker versus people you now.as much as you like them, you dont really mind who's money you take.

                                            I honestly cant see many/any more bets being made in the near future. Doubt ill bother myself, hassle like this aint worth it - and the people who i know from here/trust, dont seem to have taken to it. So as good as setting some sort of process for settling bets etc, i think its pretty irrelevant as it will die off.

                                            IF it were to work, small group of people who are well respected or have been vouched by someone who is, would place bets amongst themselves. It would be hassle free then. only when its at that stage will it work.
                                            GAA News Website

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Semibluff View Post
                                              Its a good idea in theory. One person like chelsea. One person like United. They bet with each other, saves them going to bookie, and also means the winner will make an extra 10% or so on the bet.

                                              It works in 2+2, and placing bets with people you know is the same theory as playing poker versus people you now.as much as you like them, you dont really mind who's money you take.

                                              I honestly cant see many/any more bets being made in the near future. Doubt ill bother myself, hassle like this aint worth it - and the people who i know from here/trust, dont seem to have taken to it. So as good as setting some sort of process for settling bets etc, i think its pretty irrelevant as it will die off.

                                              IF it were to work, small group of people who are well respected or have been vouched by someone who is, would place bets amongst themselves. It would be hassle free then. only when its at that stage will it work.
                                              Only problem with this is that those without a big roll couldn't take part. i myself have a solid enough roll these days that i can do 400-500 worth of football bets a week but i know ill get a return on some so it's not that much.

                                              However if we did that group thing, for example me, you and tommygunne. there's no way i could lay big bets on horses, golf etc. Not just because i don't know much about them. But because i wouldn't have a roll to pay out if you won big. Know what i mean.

                                              I also understand that placing the odd bet with someone on here might not be fair. i might do one with them and one with a bookie and ill lose every one to the bookie but ill win every one with the poster on here. That's why im now going to do ALL my football bets on here provided someone wants to lay them. If semibluff and Tommygunne want to go haffers and lay me all my football bets id have no problem with that. Id even transfer a decent sum of moeny to a 'bank' so to speak, and use the money from that. Was it luckyllyoyd who said we could use his account on stars? You two could then go haffers on any losses/winnings. Like i said, if im going to lose id much rather give my money to someone i half know than a scumbag bookie. And fwiw i would be doing AT LEAST 400e worth of bets each week. A good bit more when there is events on such as 6 nations, weeknight football etc.

                                              Im very tired so i hope some of that made sense
                                              Last edited by Eddie Durkin; 20-02-10, 01:11.

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by Semibluff View Post
                                                I honestly cant see many/any more bets being made in the near future. Doubt ill bother myself, hassle like this aint worth it - and the people who i know from here/trust, dont seem to have taken to it. So as good as setting some sort of process for settling bets etc, i think its pretty irrelevant as it will die off.

                                                .
                                                For me its great. I refuse to ever bet in bookies because I think its very unlikely that my opinion is better than theirs, given they are experts at at and they rig it to take a vig. However I'm more than happy to bet straight up against another human. Its like the difference between Holdem and Bonus Holdem.

                                                If I was betting for a significant amount I would only do it with escrow, or someone I know for a long time from here.


                                                edit: Also, as someone mentioned above, id rather lose my money to TommyGunne than a bookies!

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post
                                                  For me its great. I refuse to ever bet in bookies because I think its very unlikely that my opinion is better than theirs, given they are experts at at and they rig it to take a vig. However I'm more than happy to bet straight up against another human. Its like the difference between Holdem and Bonus Holdem.

                                                  edit: Also, as someone mentioned above, id rather lose my money to TommyGunne than a bookies!
                                                  I can't tell if this was a serious post or you where just making fun of what i said

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    Why bet with someone you dont know!?
                                                    If you want to bet with someone you dont know use a bookie or Betfair
                                                    Will get the prices at Betfair you will get here + its secure

                                                    I Dont blame the mods tbh, its yer own fault, I looked at SOME of the bets being made here and it was like looking at a bunch of kids at lunch time in school

                                                    Yer man Lee may show up (hope he does!) but his bets seemed to be very much based on getting as much business as quickly as possible (was going to send a post to the the mods saying this at the time)

                                                    I wont be betting with any of ye (no offence) unless I spot a serious rick/mug (im looking at you Eddie )



                                                    Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post
                                                    edit: Also, as someone mentioned above, id rather lose my money to TommyGunne than a bookies!
                                                    Personally, if I lose I couldnt care who gets the money be it a bookie or Bertie the cnut Ahern
                                                    Last edited by Elshambles; 20-02-10, 09:52. Reason: another of these :)
                                                    PMA

                                                    Comment


                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by Eddie Durkin View Post
                                                      I can't tell if this was a serious post or you where just making fun of what i said
                                                      serious post

                                                      Comment


                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by Elshambo View Post
                                                        [COLOR="Red"]im looking at you Eddie )
                                                        How am i a mug? I always have an edge

                                                        Comment


                                                          #29
                                                          I like the idea of a small group of regular punters who have access only to place/lay bets with each other. Perhaps work on the criteria of a minimum of 5/10 bets traded without any payment issues being allowed access or as a starting point regular guys who have been posting 2+ years from here and the other place.

                                                          Comment


                                                            #30
                                                            Just registered today and hope to post here a bit as the boards gambling forum is septic to say the least.

                                                            Just a quick opinion:

                                                            I have no intention of getting involved in bets with other posters but i would really like to contribute to this forum as a sports gambling discussion/opinion board.

                                                            Introducing things like ID checks or banning editing (just 2 examples of suggestions made so far) will be off putting to somebody like myself who hopefully has something constructive to offer and maybe can help others make some money.

                                                            While the inter-poster bets may well be a continuing and positive thing in the forum, I personally think it will aid the growth of this place to take into accounts the needs of those of us looking only for discussion/debate. Allowing it purely to be a forum for putting up lays/bets is simply setting up an exchange without the software or the security.

                                                            Comment


                                                              #31
                                                              There will be no ID checks as they place too much responsibility on the mods which we don't want for something like this, and editing isn't something we can ban imo so that won't happen either.

                                                              There may well be guidelines, but at the end of the day, as said above it is really at the punters risk here, but if there is a way of reducing the risk somehow that is easy to do, then it should probably be done.

                                                              Comment


                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by 5starpool View Post
                                                                but if there is a way of reducing the risk somehow that is easy to do, then it should probably be done.
                                                                Ive already started making a list for myself to follow.

                                                                #1 - Don't bet with people from Cork and/or the surrounding area

                                                                Comment


                                                                  #33
                                                                  People are way over-reacting to the situation.

                                                                  An incident like this was always going to happen, but it shouldn't change the way the forum is run, or need any LOL id checks or other bizarre ideas.

                                                                  It's pretty simple, only bet with people you trust, or escrow first if at all worried about anything. It's your own responsibility to ensure you don't get scammed. Remember kids, safety first.

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    #34
                                                                    Good points being raised and as kamran akmals fanclub points out, IPB is, first and foremost, a discussion forum and that always has to come first, if something is putting people off discussing stuff then it's a bad thing. So all these ID checks and the likes are defo non runners as it stifles discussion.

                                                                    Comment


                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by The C Kid View Post
                                                                      Remember kids, safety first.

                                                                      Comment

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