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    Back after some more minor calf issues.

    Today was a nice very very slow 7 miler on snow and trails.

    Delighted to be back on my feet.

    Comment


      Ran my first half of the year today, the Wicklow Gaol Break, in 2:15.07.

      10 mins slower that my last half in November but given the uphill nature of the course (can a course be uphill 80% and downhill 20%?) and being a bit dehydrated and hot early on i was happy enough (i regretted wearing my full winter running gear once i'd started moving that was for sure but i had to plough on regardless).

      The course was a game of two halves: first half running round Wicklow Town's ring roads wondering why i'd paid good money to run uphill in half-built housing estates, the second half was out into the country roads, more long, steep hills but nice views over the Irish Sea.

      Don't know if i'd bother with it again TBH. It was easy enough to get to, just 45 mins from Dublin and well enough organised but wasn't very unique.

      Next up Wexford at the end of April, hopefully a flatter course and maybe sub 2:10 to bring into Clontarf in June.
      Last edited by BennyHiFi; 25-03-18, 19:34.

      Comment


        Originally posted by FeetMagic View Post
        Month of Jan was abysmal - 3 x 8km runs registered. Going to try to do 20km+ tomorrow to shock the system and set the precedent for next 10 weeks or so.
        Originally posted by FeetMagic View Post
        Covered 20/21km in 1:50. Used to be a silent runner but opted to throw on Joe Rogan's recent podcast with Peterson & I think I'll be sticking with the audio support throughout this training cycle. With that said, what cool running apps are out there? I'd like something that can run simultaneously with other apps & give distance updates and possibly pacing updates at controlled intervals - what do you guys use?
        Since then, have logged the following:
        • 3.4 miles @ 25 mins
        • 9.3 miles @ 01:15
        • 12.4 miles @ 01:41
        • 3 miles @ 22mins
        • 10.4miles @ 01:26
        • 13 miles @ 01:54
        • 20 min run
        • 8.6 miles @ 01:13


        I have given up on the notion of hitting sub 3:30 at this attempt. I envisaged a better training schedule when I signed up for the marathon but a combination of my legs generally being wrecked from kickboxing & no great desire or enjoyment from running means I will be happy to complete in 3:45-3:50 which would be my 2nd best time from 5 attempts. 6 weeks til race day.

        Comment


          Originally posted by ArmaniJeans View Post

          2018 targets.

          600K total.
          sub 25m 5K.
          run a 10K.
          do some 'sprinting' for variety purposes.
          drop a dress size or two.
          1. 155K after 3 months so pretty much on target.
          2. Put in a new parkrun pb of 26:42 the week before last so edging towards this.
          3. Did 10K for the first time on Good Friday. Very very wobbly in the last 2K but got there. Initially disappointed with 58:40 but tend to quickly look on the bright side re these things and now see it as a target time which should be easy enough to break.
          4. Abandoned this after one session of 10x100m sprints. Not sure I have a sprinting style which doesn't hurt my knee.
          5. Into a 38 waist now, and have discarded the XXL t-shirts, so progress.

          Comment


            This is gonna be a long one but here goes.

            Dunno why I'm posting this here but lacking motivation so maybe writing it down and getting advice would be good.

            Got injured back in October/November and missed a chunk of soccer. Was in a job with irregular hours so couldn't get into any sort of training routine. Turned into the ultimate couch potato, get home and just eat shite, drink beer and settle down with chocolate and crisps for the evening, told myself I'd get back to it when the injury cleared, then told myself I'd get back into it when Xmas was over, then told myself sure there's no point starting in January etc etc.

            Got back to the soccer, started with the GAA team so all is good now but fitness is gone to shit. I've always had good stamina, played a full 60 minute gaa game last Sunday and even tho I was wrecked after it is was fine on Monday. I just need to lose the belly and the man boobs that are starting to come in, tone up a bit also.

            I'm 29, 6 foot tall, 16 stone 8 (or 140kg) and just ran 3.6km in 19:23.

            I'm actually happy with that pace, it was just over 5 minutes per km which I'm delighted with since I'd say it's over a year since my last run. It also includes stopping during the last km at a couple of exercise machines that were installed near the basketball courts on the estate, just a few upper body exercises so the whole body gets a go. Times per km were 5:01, 4:59, 5:16, 6:39.

            Food seems to be my biggest hurdle but I spoke to the missus about that today and she's gonna start making me nice stuff for lunch besides hitting the deli counter every day when I'm on the road.

            Main goal is just lose the belly, currently a size 38 waist and some 38s are even too tight so getting back down to a 36 is top priority. Anything else is a bonus.

            Any other advice or suggestions?

            Comment


              @dobby - I'm far from a nutritionist and nor do i do any exercise other than run but i have certainly observed a few things over this past few years that have helped me, the key thing being routine:

              1) I keep my breakfast and lunch simple and the same pretty much every day. It means i simply don;t think about what i need to eat, the only question is when. Weetabix or Cornflakes for breakfast. No added sugar. I have a variety of 'salads' for lunch with spanish meat and cheese, avoiding bread but usually with a small amount of pasta/potato/rice. For dinner i can then generally have whatever my wife makes but she tries to stay low carb too usually so that helps overall keep me from adding pounds.

              2) I run 20K a week regardless of the weather of the specific distance of each run - sometime 4 5Ks sometimes 2 10Ks, the odd half marathon. This basically allows me to drop weight by burning maybe 3K calories per week.

              I know Tar.Aldion won a weight loss bet recently and others have had similar success but the bottom line is burn more calories than you take in and if this isn't easy for you to figure out eat the same thing (more or less) for a few weeks so you stabilise the inputs while trying to crank up the exercise and you should see the difference very readily.

              Good luck!

              b.


              PS... i see the London Marathon today seems to be a bit of a killer in 23 degree heat
              Last edited by BennyHiFi; 22-04-18, 21:52.

              Comment


                Thanks Benny. Lunch is where I'm really struggling. Working as a delivery driver it's just too handy and tempting to pop into a deli. Breakfast is usually porridge and tea or tea and toast if I'm in a bit of a rush. Dinner always meat and veg with spuds or rice. We both like cooking so never any problem making something nice.

                It did take a while to get the takeaways under control in the evenings tho.

                I guess if I push that bit harder at training and make myself do a bit on my own the other nights I should be good to go. She already made a big portion of chicken stir fry with a lot of veg and rice for lunches this week so hopefully that makes a difference too. Also haven't had any alcohol this weekend for the first time in i don't know how long.

                Comment


                  My tuppence.

                  Forget weight loss. As a goal anyway. You're in this thread asking so you're obviously seeing running as a solution. It is, but imo it's important not to run with weight loss as your goal. It's a negative, and it makes you lose sight of and ignore the main benefit of running. Your mental health. When weight loss is your goal you're in danger of giving up when you reach it. Running with mental health as your goal is all about maintenance. You reach it but you don't reach it if you know what I mean.

                  Learn how to become a distance runner. Pick a marathon or a half marathon. The Dublin half in September is perfect timing wise.

                  Learn all about the type of training required. Be surprised to learn that pretty much all of your running will be easy paced, slower than 6:15 p/km. Run in the mornings, twice a week (three if you can) on an empty stomach to train your body to burn fat.
                  Do a long run at the weekend, again super slow and super easy, build it up by 10% until you're easily running 30k.

                  Do this and your head will be in great shape, and a side effect will be you'll wear 30" jeans.
                  I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

                  Comment


                    Thanks Lazare, mental health is top notch. The sport takes care of that. I go looking for the 50/50 tackles during games and for hard hits to let the steam and aggression out. Sometimes I get hit harder but that itself gives me an adrenaline rush too so I'm just doing it to lose the weight tbh. Also wouldn't have time to commit like that to running 10ks or marathons or anything like it.

                    I was looking into HIIT that I could do myself, doesn't have to be just running. I just figured this thread was a good place to ask. Have looked into getting a personal trainer but local lads are coming in at around €250 for 10 sessions which isn't bad value imo but it's money I don't have to spend right now.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by dobby View Post
                      Thanks Lazare, mental health is top notch. The sport takes care of that. I go looking for the 50/50 tackles during games and for hard hits to let the steam and aggression out. Sometimes I get hit harder but that itself gives me an adrenaline rush too so I'm just doing it to lose the weight tbh. Also wouldn't have time to commit like that to running 10ks or marathons or anything like it.

                      I was looking into HIIT that I could do myself, doesn't have to be just running. I just figured this thread was a good place to ask. Have looked into getting a personal trainer but local lads are coming in at around €250 for 10 sessions which isn't bad value imo but it's money I don't have to spend right now.
                      Yeah, it is a big time commitment. I would definitely recommend slowing down though in your running, and running on empty as often as you can. It seems counter intuitive but slow easy running will see the lbs fall quicker than pushing it every time. Plus you reduce the injury risk.

                      Good luck bro.
                      I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

                      Comment


                        Half no. two of the season under my belt in Wexford town today in the much more pleasing time of 2:06.21, nine minutes faster than last month's effort in Wicklow.

                        Made the complete rookie mistake of having bacon for breakfast in the hotel and 30 mins later guzzled down nearly a litre of water in a few mins and still couldn't quench my thirst.

                        Ran the first 6k to the first water stop with a full bladder and dry lips. A quick pee stop and couple more small bottles of water and the worst of it had passed.

                        The weather was near perfect, if a little warmer than i'd usually like and the route was mostly nice, out into the country on sun dappled lanes mostly uphill but gentler inclines than Wicklow only returning to a main road and heavy passing traffic for the last 4K or so.

                        Would recommend but between staying overnight and eating out it cost about e250 which isn't really good value so i'll probably look for something closer to Dublin next April.

                        Next up Clontarf in early July.

                        Comment


                          Nice one Benny, well done. Will you run the Dublin half?
                          I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Lazare View Post
                            Nice one Benny, well done. Will you run the Dublin half?
                            At the minute it's unlikely i'd say Lazare.

                            I deliberately swerved last year cos they moved it from the Phoenix Park (where i'd previously done a PB) which was nice and handy for me and, as it turns out after the traffic debacle that ensued, i was very glad i did.

                            It would take a lot to convince me to give it another go but i'll take a look at it i suppose.

                            Might be more likely to stump up for the Rock N' Roll (even though i've been against that one too due to cost) since it started. Hard to justify boycotting it now when i've just blown 250 getting to Wexford and back.

                            Comment


                              Well it's back in the park this year, although I'm sure you know that.

                              Moved back a week though due to the visit of popus maximus.
                              I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

                              Comment


                                Lol.. i just checked it and popped back in to say i figured it might be back on the agenda!

                                Then MrsHiFi piped up that we were going to a hot air balloon festival in Birr that weekend. Hmmmm... i'm sure i could fit in both.

                                To shift the subject slightly if i may...

                                What's your training plan for this years race in October? Will you start training later now? Different program? Do much running over the winter?

                                Comment


                                  After quick consideration i've signed up for the Dublin Half and off to the balloons in Birr afterwards

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by BennyHiFi View Post
                                    Lol.. i just checked it and popped back in to say i figured it might be back on the agenda!

                                    Then MrsHiFi piped up that we were going to a hot air balloon festival in Birr that weekend. Hmmmm... i'm sure i could fit in both.

                                    To shift the subject slightly if i may...

                                    What's your training plan for this years race in October? Will you start training later now? Different program? Do much running over the winter?
                                    I had big ideas for the months after it, wanted to train specifically for the Raheny 5 mile at the end of Jan, and concentrate generally on up to 10k with a view to starting the long stuff again in the summer.

                                    All went to shit for me with a 3 week chest infection in December and then another one in Feb. Have just been plodding along. Have gotten pbs though in 5k, Raheny and a 10k so the block I did last year definitely paid off.

                                    Haven't signed up yet to Dublin but I have decided this week that I am.

                                    I'm looking at an intermediate 14 week plan that has a little more emphasis on speed, last year was pretty much all easy stuff, designed to get you there. Want to target something a little more aggressive this year.

                                    Requires me to be regularly running 65km a week though, so I'm under pressure now to build to that by July.

                                    Not sure I could miss a hot air balloon festival You're right, do both. That's the attitude
                                    I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

                                    Comment


                                      Cheers for the catch up. Always interesting.

                                      Sounds like a rough winter but the PBs are good news and something to build on.

                                      Good luck in the coming weeks. It's a big commitment but worth it if you can make it.

                                      Comment


                                        Did my first 5k road race on Sunday morning, the Spar Streets of Dublin 5K Was as much a fun run as a real race, bit of a windy course around the docklands and not very fast, but was still good craic. Finished in 20.31 net, which was a bit slower than I had hoped, but have been injured a good bit this year and haven't really had any time to run recently, still managing to get to parkruns when I can though, even if I don't do another 1k that week.

                                        Gonna try to amp up the mileage for a few weeks and target the Docklands 5k in late June for a proper sub-20 attempt, supposed to be a much straighter course and the average participant should be faster so won't get as delayed at the start as I did this past weekend.

                                        Comment


                                          Originally posted by BennyHiFi View Post
                                          After quick consideration i've signed up for the Dublin Half and off to the balloons in Birr afterwards
                                          ...Sadly no balloons for me, but I have signed up (well I will in next couple of days) to do the half marathon in September my self...
                                          ...It'll be funny for me to get to half marathon levels...I hadn't done anything since last July.. .I went for a run last week with my brother, who is also doing it and in muxh better condition....I managed 3km in 18 minutes, and also had to walk in between them....I'm so unfit it's scary....
                                          ...Sorry for derailing, but I need to shame my self publicly as motivation ha...

                                          Comment


                                            I was lucky to be shipped to NYC this week for work so managed a 5K up 6th ave and down 5th (from 32nd street ) at 7am yesterday and a 11.5K this morning on the same route but also taking in 6K or so through Central Park.

                                            I was surprised how light both human and vehicular traffic was at that time of the morning so it was a stress free run with light breezes and pleasant temperatures.

                                            Definitely my unexpected running buzz of the year. So far!

                                            Comment


                                              6Runners/Joggers. What's your resting pulse and what do you push it to then how long to recovery. Not looking for optimum just examples

                                              Comment


                                                Dunno TBH. Never taken my pulse for running purposes. I know that's not very helpful.

                                                I'd take it now and let you know but just had a glass of wine and walked along a long hotel corridor as a brisk enough pace so that probably doesn't count as resting!

                                                Comment


                                                  Originally posted by Mike Bullocks View Post
                                                  6Runners/Joggers. What's your resting pulse and what do you push it to then how long to recovery. Not looking for optimum just examples
                                                  World class endurance athlete will have a resting pulse about 40 BPM. Mere mortals about 60 BPM +. Well trained athletes in between these figures.

                                                  Google heart rate training to get more detailed info. The better trained or adapted you are, the quicker you will recover.

                                                  For people training for endurance events, e.g. tri/marathon, most of a training program may be based on low heart-rate work, and building a solid aerobic system over time.

                                                  Best not to go into to much high heart rate work, without building a base, however many recreational runners would likely benefit from a small amount more activity at medium to high intensity ...
                                                  Last edited by colm_leche; 19-06-18, 16:18.

                                                  Comment


                                                    According to my wrist based HRM I'm about 50 at rest, 110 fast walking, 120 - 150 swimming, 150-170 cycling and while running I tick up steadily from 175 - 190
                                                    Typically after a hard run it will be a good few hours before I'm back down to 50 but I'll be down to the 70's within an hour or two.

                                                    Heres an image from a day with a lunchtime run and a busy afternoon evening with lots of moving


                                                    Those numbers from the garmin are all running about 5% faster than the same numbers from a holter monitor.

                                                    Its a long story but I had a weird thing happen last year where I got light headed on a run and ended up having a very thorough heart check up. When I went back to the cardiologists clinic after having all the tests I saw him pick up my file and go through it and then he comes back out and calls my name , as they do. I went in and he looks me up and down, goes back to the file looks at it again and then says to me "If I hadn't seen you and only seen this file I'd have thought you were an athlete in his 30'"

                                                    Anyway we never got to the bottom of what happened that day, it was probably a transient low blood sugar problem but I did get to talk to him about running and I was able to ask him if he was happy for me to be running for two hours , and maybe someday 4 and a half, with the HR over 190. His attitude was that this was a good thing and I should continue to do it 'as long as the orthopedics allow!'
                                                    Turning millions into thousands

                                                    Comment


                                                      Pretty impressive heartwork SP

                                                      Comment


                                                        The heart look in good knick SP. Good stuff.


                                                        Depending on what my training is like my RHR floats around the 50 mark. When I focused on cardio for a bit, it was 48 conssitently. RHR is a good indicator of recovery, and an increased RHR, even if still is the good range can indicate you aren't recovering and should take time off.

                                                        Max HR goes up to increases with activity up to about 190.

                                                        Comment


                                                          Originally posted by ionapaul View Post
                                                          Did my first 5k road race on Sunday morning, the Spar Streets of Dublin 5K Was as much a fun run as a real race, bit of a windy course around the docklands and not very fast, but was still good craic. Finished in 20.31 net, which was a bit slower than I had hoped, but have been injured a good bit this year and haven't really had any time to run recently, still managing to get to parkruns when I can though, even if I don't do another 1k that week.

                                                          Gonna try to amp up the mileage for a few weeks and target the Docklands 5k in late June for a proper sub-20 attempt, supposed to be a much straighter course and the average participant should be faster so won't get as delayed at the start as I did this past weekend.
                                                          Sigh, ran this last night (7.30pm) and just couldn't do it, finished in 20.18 net. Have a good few excuses why yesterday wasn't going to be my sub-20 day but was really disappointed in myself regardless, ran the first 3k along side the 20 minute pacers and the pace just fell away right after the 3k marker was reached. My 1k intervals:

                                                          3:58
                                                          3:54
                                                          3:59
                                                          4:16
                                                          4:16



                                                          I really pushed myself to stay in touch but once they left me, I had nothing left to catch up. Fuck it anyhow.
                                                          Last edited by ionapaul; 29-06-18, 08:06.

                                                          Comment


                                                            Unlucky with the temperature there, if that was 7:30 AM instead of PM you would have easily done it. No bother to you to do it in the next few weeks, it doesn't have to be an event.
                                                            No matter what way you look at it 4 minute K's is a very fast time, Well done.

                                                            These days I'm afraid 6:30 K's are the norm for me and 6:15 is a target
                                                            Turning millions into thousands

                                                            Comment


                                                              Great running Paul in that heat the other night, unlucky to come so close, but a cracking time either way.

                                                              You mentioned in the previous post that you were gonna ramp up the mileage a bit, did you manage to do that?

                                                              If so, what sort of paces were you running?
                                                              I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

                                                              Comment


                                                                Originally posted by ArmaniJeans View Post
                                                                2018 targets.

                                                                600K total.
                                                                sub 25m 5K.
                                                                run a 10K.
                                                                do some 'sprinting' for variety purposes.
                                                                drop a dress size or two.
                                                                Originally posted by ArmaniJeans View Post

                                                                3 months in.
                                                                1. 155K so pretty much on target.
                                                                2. Put in a new parkrun pb of 26:42 the week before last so edging towards this.
                                                                3. Did 10K for the first time on Good Friday. Very very wobbly in the last 2K but got there. Initially disappointed with 58:40 but tend to quickly look on the bright side re these things and now see it as a target time which should be easy enough to break.
                                                                4. Abandoned this after one session of 10x100m sprints. Not sure I have a sprinting style which doesn't hurt my knee.
                                                                5. Into a 38 waist now, and have discarded the XXL t-shirts, so progress.
                                                                6 months in.
                                                                1. 327K so on target with about 2 weeks buffer built up.
                                                                2. 26:02 the new pb since mid May. Haven't been able to match that the last few runs, putting it down to weather being just too hot. 25m still a live possibility I'd say.
                                                                3. Done a second 10K over the June Bank Holiday - felt much more comfortable and managed 55:20 so a big leap from the first one.
                                                                4. No more sprinting attempted.
                                                                5. Veering somewhere between 36<->38 waist.

                                                                Comment


                                                                  Super stuff AJ, fantastic movement on that 5k time.

                                                                  What sort of paces are you at for the bulk of your running, excluding parkrun, your day to day running?
                                                                  I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    Originally posted by Lazare View Post
                                                                    Super stuff AJ, fantastic movement on that 5k time.

                                                                    What sort of paces are you at for the bulk of your running, excluding parkrun, your day to day running?
                                                                    It's all very linear as I'm quite one-paced.
                                                                    I run 6 different distances in a 'rota', though 3K and 4K take up the bulk of the runs with the longer runs reserved for weekends so there's less of them.

                                                                    2K Best is 10:01, generally around 10:10.
                                                                    3K Best is 15:59, generally around 16:20.
                                                                    4K Best is 20:10, generally around 21:00.
                                                                    6K Best is 32:20, generally around 32:50.
                                                                    7K Best is 37:30, generally around 38:00.
                                                                    8K Best is 43:10, generally around 44:00.

                                                                    The 3K is the most difficult course, so its times are a bit out of line with the others.

                                                                    Comment


                                                                      Originally posted by ArmaniJeans View Post
                                                                      It's all very linear as I'm quite one-paced.
                                                                      I run 6 different distances in a 'rota', though 3K and 4K take up the bulk of the runs with the longer runs reserved for weekends so there's less of them.

                                                                      2K Best is 10:01, generally around 10:10.
                                                                      3K Best is 15:59, generally around 16:20.
                                                                      4K Best is 20:10, generally around 21:00.
                                                                      6K Best is 32:20, generally around 32:50.
                                                                      7K Best is 37:30, generally around 38:00.
                                                                      8K Best is 43:10, generally around 44:00.

                                                                      The 3K is the most difficult course, so its times are a bit out of line with the others.
                                                                      Those times seem spot on. Pace falls off very slowly with increased distance. Statistically, doubling the distance typical equals only a 5% increase in pace.

                                                                      https://www.runnersworld.co.uk/rws-race-time-predictor#

                                                                      http://www.runnersworldonline.com.au.../TrainingCalc/
                                                                      Last edited by Mellor; 04-07-18, 10:35.

                                                                      Comment


                                                                        Originally posted by ArmaniJeans View Post
                                                                        It's all very linear as I'm quite one-paced.
                                                                        I run 6 different distances in a 'rota', though 3K and 4K take up the bulk of the runs with the longer runs reserved for weekends so there's less of them.

                                                                        2K Best is 10:01, generally around 10:10.
                                                                        3K Best is 15:59, generally around 16:20.
                                                                        4K Best is 20:10, generally around 21:00.
                                                                        6K Best is 32:20, generally around 32:50.
                                                                        7K Best is 37:30, generally around 38:00.
                                                                        8K Best is 43:10, generally around 44:00.

                                                                        The 3K is the most difficult course, so its times are a bit out of line with the others.
                                                                        With cracking 25 mins in mind, I'll pass on some stellar advice I got last year. Advice was centred around the marathon but the knock on affect of it was I improved greatly at shorter distances, 5k, 10k. In order to become faster at 5k you need to work on endurance, not speed. You have the speed already to do it.


                                                                        You're at 25min pace at 2k (5:00), only 2 seconds off it at 4k but then 12 seconds off it at 5k.

                                                                        So you have the speed, you just need to work on endurance. The advice I got to do this was to slow everything down, by a lot.

                                                                        You need to build your aerobic system, build your lungs and heart and become more efficient at pumping larger volumes of oxygen to the legs.

                                                                        Running slow works this system. If you're doing the bulk of your running at your 5k pace you're crossing the threshold from aerobic into anaerobic training, basically working your muscles rather than your lungs.

                                                                        If you slowed everything down to around 6:50 - 7:30 pace (easy effort, able to hold a conversation) for the vast bulk of your running and raced parkrun every three weeks or longer I guarantee you you will smash 25 minutes before the end of the year.

                                                                        Running slow not only constantly works your aerobic system, it also means less recovery time meaning you can run more often.

                                                                        Your speed will also improve, you'll likely have a 23 min target this time next year.

                                                                        Run slow to run fast basically.
                                                                        I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          Originally posted by Lazare View Post
                                                                          Great running Paul in that heat the other night, unlucky to come so close, but a cracking time either way.

                                                                          You mentioned in the previous post that you were gonna ramp up the mileage a bit, did you manage to do that?

                                                                          If so, what sort of paces were you running?
                                                                          Forgot to answer this, but here we go:

                                                                          Yep, I increased my mileage a good bit since the start of May, that month I logged 13 runs and 65 kilometers, while in June I logged 10 runs and 55 kilometers. I know that doesn't sound like much but is WAY more kms than I've done in any other month in the past few years, the vast majority of my exercise time is just my regular 40 minutes sessions in the gym.

                                                                          Have been adding 'long runs' into the mix, but for me that's anything over 5k. In May I did a few 7.5k runs and a number of times in June and just yesterday I completed a 6.5k course near my work, perfect for lunchtime. Typically run them between 4.30-4.50/km pace. Running a 4.50/km pace 'feels' extremely slow to me, I struggle to slow it down any more.

                                                                          Have also done a few runs where I tried in incorporate fartlek stuff, run at a slow-ish pace for 1k and then sprint at 3.30-3.45/km for 100m, and repeat. I get tired out fairly quickly that way though!

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            MrsHiFi just texted to say it could be 29 degrees for the Clontarf half on Saturday.

                                                                            I've done a fair few 10ks in that kind of heat but never 22k.

                                                                            Looking forward to it with equal parts trepidation and excitement. Should be quite the challenge, albeit a very slow one i'd imagine.

                                                                            Comment


                                                                              Originally posted by BennyHiFi View Post
                                                                              MrsHiFi just texted to say it could be 29 degrees for the Clontarf half on Saturday.

                                                                              I've done a fair few 10ks in that kind of heat but never 22k.

                                                                              Looking forward to it with equal parts trepidation and excitement. Should be quite the challenge, albeit a very slow one i'd imagine.
                                                                              Be a tough one alright, I hope they've a few extra water stations laid on.

                                                                              Stick a bead of vaseline over your eyebrows, stop the sweat running into your eyes.
                                                                              I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

                                                                              Comment


                                                                                I tried to run in the middle of the day today and just wasn't able to do it. After 1500M I was walking and walk / jogged the rest.
                                                                                Turning millions into thousands

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                                                                                  Registered for Tough Mudder in 2.5 weeks.

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                                                                                    Originally posted by Lazare View Post
                                                                                    With cracking 25 mins in mind, I'll pass on some stellar advice I got last year. Advice was centred around the marathon but the knock on affect of it was I improved greatly at shorter distances, 5k, 10k. In order to become faster at 5k you need to work on endurance, not speed. You have the speed already to do it.

                                                                                    You're at 25min pace at 2k (5:00), only 2 seconds off it at 4k but then 12 seconds off it at 5k.

                                                                                    So you have the speed, you just need to work on endurance. The advice I got to do this was to slow everything down, by a lot.
                                                                                    I'd actually disagree with that part (in regards to AJ’s times above). Being able to run a 5min 1km doesn’t mean you have the speed for a 25min 5km.
                                                                                    Take Bekele for example, he does 3.33 for 1,500m which is the pace for 11:50 over 5km…yet his 5km world record is 12:37. But would obvious silly to suggest that endurance his the issue.

                                                                                    Speed and endurance have a linear relationship. The posted calculator above was developed some engineer years ago afaik, and seems to hold reasonable true for all levels.

                                                                                    To break 25min you need a 9:25 2km, 14:30 3km, 19:45 4km, 30:20 6km, 52min 10km

                                                                                    If somebody is ahead of those times over shorter distances, and drifting at the longer end. They need to improve endurance.
                                                                                    If somebody was behind those times over shorter distances, and hitting the longer ones. They need to improve speed.
                                                                                    Most people will be evenly across the range of distance and just to improve both. Endurance and speed.

                                                                                    You need to build your aerobic system, build your lungs and heart and become more efficient at pumping larger volumes of oxygen to the legs.
                                                                                    Running slow works this system. If you're doing the bulk of your running at your 5k pace you're crossing the threshold from aerobic into anaerobic training, basically working your muscles rather than your lungs.
                                                                                    If you slowed everything down to around 6:50 - 7:30 pace (easy effort, able to hold a conversation) for the vast bulk of your running and raced parkrun every three weeks or longer I guarantee you you will smash 25 minutes before the end of the year.
                                                                                    Running slow not only constantly works your aerobic system, it also means less recovery time meaning you can run more often.
                                                                                    Your speed will also improve, you'll likely have a 23 min target this time next year.
                                                                                    Run slow to run fast basically.
                                                                                    That part’s true. Focusing on longer distances and aerobic capacity will always improve times over all distances regardless of where somebody is weak or strong. There will always be a benefit to that, no suggesting to ignore long slow runs (LSR is an acronym for a reason).
                                                                                    I think that aerobic is dominant at any distance from 1500m. So improving 2km-4km will carry over to 5km-8km times.

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                                                                                      I definitely think AJ has the speed, I'm basing that off his 4k time, which is almost bang on.

                                                                                      It's not worthwhile comparing us mere mortals to superhuman elites like Bekele, these guys are at absolute peak fitness and are working off the narrowest of edges. We've all got a far wider scope for improvement in terms of fitness. By fitness I mean aerobic fitness, improvements in which translate to speed and endurance, but mostly the latter.

                                                                                      One eye opener for me last year was the idea that pretty much all your running should be at LSR pace, not just your Sunday long run. In fact I was even running that too fast at 6:00 pace.

                                                                                      My easy pace now is in the range of 6:05 - 6:45, I do the bulk of my running at that and my 5k time is 21:29.

                                                                                      Threshold for me at the moment is 5:19, when I run faster than that I'm no longer working on endurance.

                                                                                      I would guess AJ that your threshold is about 5:48. Run your bulk slower than that and you will see huge gains.
                                                                                      I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

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                                                                                        Originally posted by Lazare View Post
                                                                                        I definitely think AJ has the speed, I'm basing that off his 4k time, which is almost bang on.
                                                                                        I think he could do it too. A good flat course and a big push and it's there. The 4km suggest a 25:16 5km, that's nothing to shave off in one go.

                                                                                        It's not worthwhile comparing us mere mortals to superhuman elites like Bekele, these guys are at absolute peak fitness and are working off the narrowest of edges. We've all got a far wider scope for improvement in terms of fitness. By fitness I mean aerobic fitness, improvements in which translate to speed and endurance, but mostly the latter.
                                                                                        I was comparing Bekele only to Bekele.
                                                                                        It doesn't matter if you are a elite runner or a fun runner. The relationship between pace and distance applies the same at all levels. Nobody can run at their 2km pace for 5km. That's kinda obvious, but it's less obvious that the drop in pace is linear and predictable. The formula is widely known.

                                                                                        I wasn't suggesting that working on endurance won't help. I was talking specifically about target pace over 1km being enough speed for a 5km.

                                                                                        My easy pace now is in the range of 6:05 - 6:45, I do the bulk of my running at that and my 5k time is 21:29.
                                                                                        Out of curiosity what distances? I imagine there's a difference between 2kms and 10kms at a given pace.

                                                                                        Threshold for me at the moment is 5:19, when I run faster than that I'm no longer working on endurance.
                                                                                        Is that Lacate threshold? How do you work that out. I've looked into lactate threshold runs to improve jiu jitsu rounds. But never sure how to pinpoint it.

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                                                                                          Ah here lads . Just run a little every day until you can do more. Then run with a competitive bastards for speed and a distance junkie for endurance. Got a few sub 38min 10ks under my belt back in the day. :》

                                                                                          Back training again and struggling . Done some 2 minute 70% pace fast runs (the widow makers) and a few FAT boy leg wobbling 5 minute jogs. Tough road back. Week 4 . Still FAT but down a kg. No hurry but have a company 12k to run in Paris in Oct. Finishing is the aim. Could die beforehand though. Don't fret tis all good

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                                                                                            Originally posted by Mellor View Post

                                                                                            Out of curiosity what distances? I imagine there's a difference between 2kms and 10kms at a given pace.
                                                                                            Distances are ranging from 3k to 19k at the moment, will increase to about 32k in the build up (to DCM). I do two sessions a week which are peppered with some faster stuff but vast bulk is at that easy pace.

                                                                                            Originally posted by Mellor
                                                                                            Is that Lacate threshold? How do you work that out. I've looked into lactate threshold runs to improve jiu jitsu rounds. But never sure how to pinpoint it.
                                                                                            I've used a chart compiled by Jack Daniels but you can use this. Results are more accurate the longer and the more recent the race distance entered.

                                                                                            I'd suggest racing a 10k then input that result, 5k is too short to get an accurate reading imo.
                                                                                            I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

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                                                                                              Originally posted by Lazare View Post
                                                                                              I've used a chart compiled by Jack Daniels but you can use this. Results are more accurate the longer and the more recent the race distance entered.

                                                                                              I'd suggest racing a 10k then input that result, 5k is too short to get an accurate reading imo.
                                                                                              Cheers.
                                                                                              Give me a threshold of 4:23 - 4:17, and a slow pace of 6:00ish

                                                                                              On the third tab it gives pretty much the same equivalent times that I refered to above.
                                                                                              I could maybe take a short at the 10km, but liking the idea of a half marathon
                                                                                              Last edited by Mellor; 06-07-18, 00:23.

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                                                                                                Ah yeah a half will definitely tell you where you're at.

                                                                                                I'm basing that 5:19 off my marathon time, my 5k time gives me a LT of 4:35 - 4:42 but I know that's way beyond.

                                                                                                True LT at the moment is probably around 5:05.

                                                                                                Which kinda makes me question an aspect of the plan I'm doing. You select your paces based off recent results then for the first six weeks advice is to be conservative and dial them back a couple of notches. Thinking now though that lactate threshold elements of sessions should actually be at true LT to be effective. I'll ask on boards.
                                                                                                I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

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                                                                                                  Looking forward to hearing how you got on Benny. Tough conditions today.
                                                                                                  I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

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                                                                                                    Sure was Lazare, though a race of two halves really (and thankfully).

                                                                                                    The day started off blazing hot, felt like some recent midday heat at 9am.

                                                                                                    It was sold out and looked like everyone turned up! Very crowded compared to some recent Clontarf races.

                                                                                                    Pre-race there were a fair few worried-looking faces and a guy with a loud hailer telling half runners they could drop back to the five mile no problem if they wished.

                                                                                                    I started off with my slowest opening mile in memory and my pace got progressively slower as the race unfolded.

                                                                                                    The beach out was the softest i've experienced it. They seem to have scraped a lot of the soft sand off it and we were running on decomposing seaweed. It was a lot bumpier and more undulating than usual.

                                                                                                    However around the half way point we got some cloud cover and at a few points on the way back we got the faintest of breezes, just enough to lift the sweat off my brow for a brief period.

                                                                                                    Just as i felt i was picking up a bit of pace for a strong-ish finish I pick up an unidentified left foot arch twinge on the last 2-3 miles which was fairly uncomfortable and meant i had to put more pressure on the outside of my foot. I think it was the crappy beach conditions that caused it.

                                                                                                    Also the upper thigh chaffing was the worst it's been for a long time. That'll sting for a day or two.

                                                                                                    Anyway I finished in 2:21.11 (slowest ever half i believe) compared to 2:05.32 in the same race back in November but felt relieved to get round and was thankful not to have heard an ambulance siren for probably the first time in 6 or 7 runnings at that particular race.

                                                                                                    Will probably be back for another crack at it in November but before then i've the Dublin half in Phoenix Park to look forward to in September.

                                                                                                    So far this year i'm on 570Km en route to 1,000km so very pleased with the consistency (if not the speed!).
                                                                                                    Last edited by BennyHiFi; 07-07-18, 14:43.

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                                                                                                      ...Off to do a park run now...Confident of a PB- In fact I can almost guarantee I'll get one today, I just habe that feeling!!!...
                                                                                                      ...I should add, it is my 1st ever park run so I guess just complete it and my prediction will come true 😂😂😂...Aiming for under 30 minutes I guess, but mostly to have as few walking breaks as possible...

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                                                                                                        Originally posted by luckforsome View Post
                                                                                                        ...Off to do a park run now...Confident of a PB- In fact I can almost guarantee I'll get one today, I just habe that feeling!!!...
                                                                                                        ...I should add, it is my 1st ever park run so I guess just complete it and my prediction will come true 😂😂😂...Aiming for under 30 minutes I guess, but mostly to have as few walking breaks as possible...
                                                                                                        ...Completed 1st ever park run...Really enjoyed it, although I was running on my own more than I thought...I'd say there were at least 30 runners, in brickfield park...
                                                                                                        ...I'm very happy to say I didn't stop once, which considering on my last run I had to stop 4 times in 4km is a huge improvement, and I wasn't half as tired either...Timewise I'm not too sure because my fitbit is totally off...My fitbit said 6.45km in 33mimutes, but it was suppose to be a 5km parkrun, so I'm guessing it took 33 minutes to do 5km and I'm happy with that...
                                                                                                        ...My target is the half marathon in September with my brother (who is way ahead of me lol), so it's all about learning and improving...

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                                                                                                          Originally posted by FeetMagic View Post
                                                                                                          Since then, have logged the following:
                                                                                                          • 3.4 miles @ 25 mins
                                                                                                          • 9.3 miles @ 01:15
                                                                                                          • 12.4 miles @ 01:41
                                                                                                          • 3 miles @ 22mins
                                                                                                          • 10.4miles @ 01:26
                                                                                                          • 13 miles @ 01:54
                                                                                                          • 20 min run
                                                                                                          • 8.6 miles @ 01:13


                                                                                                          I have given up on the notion of hitting sub 3:30 at this attempt. I envisaged a better training schedule when I signed up for the marathon but a combination of my legs generally being wrecked from kickboxing & no great desire or enjoyment from running means I will be happy to complete in 3:45-3:50 which would be my 2nd best time from 5 attempts. 6 weeks til race day.
                                                                                                          Realize I never gave an update on this, for good reason. It was my fifth marathon, all over the past 4 years, and definitely the least enjoyable. My training had been really poor primarily due to the realization I don't actually enjoy long distance running. Yet, I had an irrational upsurge in optimism days before the race, thinking that a positive mindset could account for the lack of miles and push me through in under 3:30.

                                                                                                          I had run the same marathon last year with injuries forcing me to walk the majority of the final 7km for a finish around the 4 hour mark. The exact same scenario played out the marathon prior leading to a slightly longer finish again. It is really only the first two marathons I did that I look back on fondly; finishing in 4:02 in my first with little training and finishing in 03:35 in my second with a proper training schedule. It turned out to me a pretty hot day even for the morning start time. Was probably just under 20C from the off and picked up quickly so we ran the majority at 23-25C. This was the case in the previous two also so dehydration definitely played its part.

                                                                                                          I got through the first half on the 1:45 mark but was feeling quite drained. I was still confident of finishing below 3:45 so I reduced my pace slightly. I can't remember what km mark we were at but I started getting calf spasms which I've never experienced before. Basically, a calf would just take off shaking with jolts of pain only eased by laying it down at certain angles. These would last about a minute and I would start slowly jogging again; minute on, minute off for a few km. I slowly came to the realization that walking didn't aggravate it as much so my options with 15km or more to go were to hobble the remainder or accept a DNF. I took the latter option.

                                                                                                          I think there were a number of factors at play for the similar outcomes in the last 3 attempts, e.g. lack of a proper training lead up, heat, etc. But most of the responsibility lies with my body which I don't think is cut out for long distance running. I would definitely be surprised if I ran another one in the next decade but equally surprised if I don't revisit them in my later years. To finish on a more positive note, I ran my fastest 5km earlier this week at 19:41.
                                                                                                          Last edited by FeetMagic; 14-07-18, 17:31.

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                                                                                                            Originally posted by FeetMagic View Post
                                                                                                            . But most of the responsibility lies with my body which I don't think is cut out for long distance running. I would definitely be surprised if I ran another one in the next decade but equally surprised if I don't revisit them in my later years. To finish on a more positive note, I ran my fastest 5km earlier this week at 19:41.
                                                                                                            you don't have to answer obv but what sort of weight / height and age are you?
                                                                                                            Turning millions into thousands

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                                                                                                              Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post
                                                                                                              you don't have to answer obv but what sort of weight / height and age are you?
                                                                                                              28, 5'11'' & usually around 75kg, probably a bit lighter for the run.

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                                                                                                                Originally posted by FeetMagic View Post
                                                                                                                28, 5'11'' & usually around 75kg, probably a bit lighter for the run.
                                                                                                                that frame sounds perfect and time is definitely on your side.
                                                                                                                Turning millions into thousands

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                                                                                                                  Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post
                                                                                                                  you don't have to answer obv but what sort of magic do your feet have?
                                                                                                                  ...Jeez that's a weird question to ask man...

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                                                                                                                    Originally posted by FeetMagic View Post
                                                                                                                    28, 5'11'' & usually around 75kg, probably a bit lighter for the run.
                                                                                                                    Would you consider forgetting the marathon for a few years and concentrating on the shorter stuff?

                                                                                                                    There's a reason the average age of a good amateur marathoner, sub 3 guys is early forties. They were all smashing 10ks when they were 28 and had peak speed.

                                                                                                                    Spend a few years on 5 and 10ks while you're in your prime and you will sub 3 in a decade.
                                                                                                                    Last edited by Lazare; 17-07-18, 19:31.
                                                                                                                    I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

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                                                                                                                      We could set up a group in garmin
                                                                                                                      Turning millions into thousands

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                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post
                                                                                                                        We could set up a group in garmin
                                                                                                                        Good idea, or Strava. Would use the latter a lot more often.
                                                                                                                        I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

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