Pair + Flush Draw v Nitty Brother

[Crow]

Playing a live game in the local casino tonight. The villains are my nitty brother and a loose enough player who will take stabs alot with junk, so i wasn't too concerned about him considering what the flop was and previous hands with him


What's your move here?

Blinds 200/400

Dealt Jc7c in SB with 7500. 3 limpers including the button (8500) who is the loose one.
I make up the blind and the brother (13000) checks.

Flop is 2c 3x 3c (Pot size 2000)
Checked round to the button who bets 1200, I call, the brother calls and the others fold.

Turn is a 7d (Pot size 5600)
I check, the brother looks at his chips (as soon as he did that i was thinking OK im getting away from this) but then he checked. The button bet another 1200.

What's your move here?

EDIT- I was a bit results orientated with the title of the thread

[A_CitizenErased]

Playing a live game in the local casino tonight. The villains are my nitty brother and a loose enough player who will take stabs alot with junk, so i wasn't too concerned about him considering what the flop was.


What's your move here?

Blinds 200/400

Dealt Jc7c in SB with 7500. 3 limpers including the button (8500) who is the loose one.
I make up the blind and the brother (13000) checks.

Flop is 2c 3x 3c (Pot size 2000)
Checked round to the button who bets 1200, I call, the brother calls and the others fold.

Turn is a 7d (Pot size 5600)
I check, the brother looks at his chips (as soon as he did that i was thinking OK im getting away from this) but then he checked. The button bet another 1200.

What's your move here?

If hes loose than it would be right to say he could possibly have A-3 in his hand right? Im calling the bet, hoping for the flush, And if I miss im taking a stab at it anyway.

[Tremolo1]

Fold pre. Donk flop. As played I c/r turn, his sizing is rather weak and we can easily have 3x or boats in our range.

@mahony that line makes no sense and is way too passive

[Fuzzy Logic]

really? fold pre? the pot is 1800 and its 200 for us to call. Never folding pre here unless BB is in shove or fold mode

[fumyname]

Folding pre is not an option

Seems a fairly standard call on turn.

And i prob c/f the river to your brothers bet...and call the loose cannon...:-)

your really in this hand for flush nothing else. Pot is 6k after turn bet so ur getting the value to call the 1.2k neway..

[Caf]

Shove.

[Carl_Morrissey]

C/R flop all in. As played shove turn. Limp pre is ok.

[Crow]

Yeah i shoved. I was never calling the turn and folding to a blank river thats just horrible play especially with my stack.

I was either gonna win it on the turn or hope to hit the flush or another 7 if i got called.

Just was wondering if i could get away from it considering my brother looking at his chips as if he was gonna bet but then checked, and he was BB so could easily have a 3 which he did - 6 3. I missed

[NuckChorris]

[quote=Crow;254807]Dealt Jc7c in SB with 7500. [QUOTE]

C/R flop all in. As played shove turn. Limp pre is ok.

Check-Shoving for 7100 into a 3.2k pot is hardly a profitable play here. You'll get snapped off by any 3, pocket pair or nut-flush draw.

Fold pre.

Never folding pre.

Check-raising all-in on the turn is fine. You're ahead of a whole lot of the loose players range and your brother isn't really that nitty if he's check-called the flop and checked the turn again. Nits would be raising the flop or betting out the turn to get rid of the flush/straight draws. You're just pissed off that you saw his tell of going for the chips but didn't believe him. It's not always a tell, but you have that on him now so just move on and remember it next time

[Crow]

[quote=NuckChorris;255303][quote=Crow;254807]Dealt Jc7c in SB with 7500.

Check-Shoving for 7100 into a 3.2k pot is hardly a profitable play here. You'll get snapped off by any 3, pocket pair or nut-flush draw.



Never folding pre.

Check-raising all-in on the turn is fine. You're ahead of a whole lot of the loose players range and your brother isn't really that nitty if he's check-called the flop and checked the turn again. Nits would be raising the flop or betting out the turn to get rid of the flush/straight draws. You're just pissed off that you saw his tell of going for the chips but didn't believe him. It's not always a tell, but you have that on him now so just move on and remember it next time

Its just a perception of him that i have because i watch him play online alot and he's a nit tbh but he doesnt listen to my advice he just looks at his own cards and doesnt think about what others could have. But anyway.....

[Daragh999]

Shoving turns your hand into a bluff which is pretty bad, you can only get called by better and worse will fold. I lead the flop but as played C/C and lead if you hit a club/7 on the river, C/F otherwise.

[Crow]

lead if you hit a club/7 on the river, C/F otherwise.

I'd never flat the turn

[Flushdraw]

Shove pre

[Donk Magnet]

if i was ur brother i would have been sound and folded to ye

[Denny Crane]

i'd just bet the flop. or c/r if I didn't.

presume brother's going for a turn c/r now?

[Crow]

i'd just bet the flop. or c/r if I didn't.

presume brother's going for a turn c/r now?

No i c/r all in and he called. Lucky he got himself a car last week or he would have been walking home

[Hectorjelly]

your really in this hand for flush nothing else. Pot is 6k after turn bet so ur getting the value to call the 1.2k neway..

Wrong, 7 would be awesome

Fold pre. Donk flop. As played I c/r turn, his sizing is rather weak and we can easily have 3x or boats in our range.

Terrible, we have top pair, what are you trying to bluff off?

If hes loose than it would be right to say he could possibly have A-3 in his hand right? Im calling the bet, hoping for the flush, And if I miss im taking a stab at it anyway.

Again terrible, why bluff? Especially against someone who probably has a 3

Check raising all in is silly. Just call the tiny bet and see what happens on the river.

Whenever you bet you should ask yourself what the purpose of the bet is. If you are bluffing you want better hands to fold, if you are value betting you want worse hands to call. Once you catch the 7 there really is no need to bluff.

Check raising the flop makes sense since you have J hi and would like people to fold. Calling is ok too.

[Caf]

Yeah i shoved. I was never calling the turn and folding to a blank river thats just horrible play especially with my stack.

I was either gonna win it on the turn or hope to hit the flush or another 7 if i got called.

Just was wondering if i could get away from it considering my brother looking at his chips as if he was gonna bet but then checked, and he was BB so could easily have a 3 which he did - 6 3. I missed

If you trust your reads in general then there is no reason not to in this case. Obv if you think you are crushed to a seven then shoving is bad.

Shoving turns your hand into a bluff which is pretty bad, you can only get called by better and worse will fold. I lead the flop but as played C/C and lead if you hit a club/7 on the river, C/F otherwise.

So you turn your hand face up? Bet if you fill a house or a flush when it gets there? How are you getting paid on a seven or a club river?

I play the same as OP and decide the best course of action on the turn, obv folding if I have a read that I'm as good as dead to a 7 or shoving if not.

Shove pre

Is this a level? If not, explain please.

[Flushdraw]

Is this a level? If not, explain please.

There's 2k in the middle and we've a 7500 stack where no-one has showed any strength. We shove and we add over 25% to our stack. I've no idea why you'd think it was a level

[DeadParrot]

There's 2k in the middle and we've a 7500 stack where no-one has showed any strength. We shove and we add over 25% to our stack. I've no idea why you'd think it was a level

this exactly
Loose button, nitty BB
shove all day

[Crow]

Im surprised that some people are happy with calling off another 1200 and just giving up if you miss. Its kind of weak and something I would never do here with my stack and the blind levels.

Yes, it would have saved me the rest of my stack but i dont like that line

[Caf]

There's 2k in the middle and we've a 7500 stack where no-one has showed any strength. We shove and we add over 25% to our stack. I've no idea why you'd think it was a level

I didn't really think it was a level, I just wanted to hear why. I wouldn't have thought of shoving there, tis on my to-do list.

[Hectorjelly]

Im surprised that some people are happy with calling off another 1200 and just giving up if you miss. Its kind of weak and something I would never do here with my stack and the blind levels.

Yes, it would have saved me the rest of my stack but i dont like that line

You can call the river if you like, which may be a bluff, or it might go check check. You are getting direct pot odds to call, there's no need to get fancy. He's betting about 1/4 of the pot, just be glad he's bad at poker. A 7 really is your gin card, you will probably stack a 3 if you play it right

edit: you will never get trips to fold, and its very hard for anyone to have an overpair, so bluffing really is terrible

[blaaaaaaah]

Lead the flop mate, gives you a better perspective on the hand mostly ppl's calling ranges will appear alot easier to read, i'd only be afraid if your bro flatted from big anyone else once i hit the 7 i feel im way ahead and looking for a double up or taking it down.

I don't mind an aggressive shove pre either alot in there to take down and is worth doing in relation to adding to your stack plus if called your always live and that's a big if considering ppl's weak limps.

I'd have made him walk anyway lol

[Kenny]

Lead the flop mate,

when i first read op i thought CR was way to go considering read on villian, shove pre i think is almost best. if we donk at it i think we put ourself in a crappy spot, if we get flatted and club shows up on the turn how do we proceed, you'd have to be wary if he seemed willing to get it in then, if we brick turn how do we proceed? if we get raised on the flop how do we proceed? im tired so maybe im not thinking straight

edit, i know are hand is disguised if club hit but flushdraws make up a good part of his range with call on flop,

[Mellor]

You brother is clearly the one to be concerned about in this hand. I imagine you have reasonable table time with him, so reads are above average.

Turn is a 7d (Pot size 5600)
I check, the brother looks at his chips (as soon as he did that i was thinking OK im getting away from this) but then he checked. The button bet another 1200.

So why didn't you?
When I read the OP, I was thinking you flat the 1200 and the brother CRs.

Given the situation, if you actualy thought that about your brother, I think shoving turn was bad.

[blaaaaaaah]

when i first read op i thought CR was way to go considering read on villian, shove pre i think is almost best. if we donk at it i think we put ourself in a crappy spot, if we get flatted and club shows up on the turn how do we proceed, you'd have to be wary if he seemed willing to get it in then, if we brick turn how do we proceed? if we get raised on the flop how do we proceed? im tired so maybe im not thinking straight

edit, i know are hand is disguised if club hit but flushdraws make up a good part of his range with call on flop,

The reason i lead is to take it down hopefully as the money in der is worth adding to your stack. If your going for check raise you don't really define anyone's hand all your doing is hoping the button bets to ship on him and that leaves you no chance of getting away from this hand as his bro wil snap him off but if you lead and your bro flats with your reads on him and board texture you no where you stand thus allowing you to check fold the turn if you miss your flush and more importantly keeping you in the game. If the flush comes take a min n jam it in these type players will not fold trips anyway (no disrespect). Were only ever in a crappy spot if the bb calls our lead out but we can always hit our club or fold up shop... leading controls action more, most amatures are too happy to check all the time which leaves them most of the time not knowing where they are,leading out will help you read hand ranges better and also confuse your opponents but obviously do not overuse this just mix it up.

Finally drink all the free beer you can get off the casino thats the real victory lol especially off Lucey.