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PLO - probably a common situation

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    PLO - probably a common situation

    6 handed live €1-€2. I have €150, villain easily covers.

    Villain is very good PLO player I think. He is well in profit and has been frequently (re-) raising pre... maybe in a gambling mood...

    UTG raises 3 to 5 (pot 8)
    Villain in late position reraises pot to 18 (26)
    I am in BB with AQQTss and I pot it again to 60 (84) (??)
    UTG folds
    Villain goes all in for another 90 on top (in fact he has >> this but it puts me all in)

    Now I know he very likely has AA here but I am getting 7/3 so I have to call if I am over 30% to win (I checked later and I am > 30% even against AAKKss)

    So, the mistake I made here was the 4 bet? Should I have just called pre-flop? If so, what then?
    Why - stack size? pot size?
    Is this just a feature of PLO due to the closeness of hands pre-flop or is there something fundamentally wrong with the way I played the hand?

    #2
    Don't play short stacked.
    I would generally just call this OOP but getting it in against an aggro villain is OK too.
    Obviously don't fold now.

    Comment


      #3
      I'm guessing the SS gives you the nfd?
      I would generally just call the 3bet but once you raise you are committed to the hand
      your stack is too shallow for 4bet folding.
      I dont mind short stack PLO as optimum stratedgy can give you an edge.
      However, you shouldnt be putting anythint into the pot without being ready to commit your stack
      People say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
      Get a shiny metal Revolut card! And a free tenner!
      https://revolut.com/referral/jamesb8!G10D21

      Comment


        #4
        You should never be in this spot where you make a 4 bet and then have to ask after the fact should you call the shove...

        I dont play games like this but my intuition would be that the 4 bet is close given the small open, 3 bet by frequent 3 bettor...I think its fine

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by eoghan104 View Post
          Don't play short stacked.
          I would generally just call this OOP but getting it in against an aggro villain is OK too.
          Obviously don't fold now.
          100BB minimum?... If I had had 200 I would have been getting 360/140 and needed 35% to call rather than 30%... still a call here so still the same problem imo.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by DeadParrot View Post
            I'm guessing the SS gives you the nfd?
            I would generally just call the 3bet but once you raise you are committed to the hand
            your stack is too shallow for 4bet folding.
            I dont mind short stack PLO as optimum stratedgy can give you an edge.
            However, you shouldnt be putting anythint into the pot without being ready to commit your stack
            Sorry shd have said double suited...

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Valor View Post
              You should never be in this spot where you make a 4 bet and then have to ask after the fact should you call the shove...

              I dont play games like this but my intuition would be that the 4 bet is close given the small open, 3 bet by frequent 3 bettor...I think its fine
              I wasn't asking after the fact about the shove... my question related to the 4 bet only and I agree it is close but probably ok.....

              Maybe this question is really about optimal stack size for PLO and the fact that a stack is in the wrong space: too big to benefit from short stack advantages and too small to allow me to get away in this type of situation...

              Maybe this is just feature of PLO that you have to live with? i.e. hands close in value pre-flop so a raising war will almost inevitably end up all in for short-medium stack

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by EssEll View Post
                Sorry shd have said double suited...
                Ok i flat pre and re- asess after the flop . You shouldn't be 4 betting here pre unless you are willing to commit your whole stack without question and as you know the villain here you know your up against the nuts most of the time.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by DAMO72 View Post
                  Ok i flat pre and re- asess after the flop . You shouldn't be 4 betting here pre unless you are willing to commit your whole stack without question and as you know the villain here you know your up against the nuts most of the time.
                  ... but I didn't know he was that strong until he shoved... I thought his range for the original 3 bet was fairly wide.

                  Having said that I think ur prob right that I shd have just flatted

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by EssEll View Post
                    I wasn't asking after the fact about the shove... my question related to the 4 bet only and I agree it is close but probably ok.....

                    Maybe this question is really about optimal stack size for PLO and the fact that a stack is in the wrong space: too big to benefit from short stack advantages and too small to allow me to get away in this type of situation...

                    Maybe this is just feature of PLO that you have to live with? i.e. hands close in value pre-flop so a raising war will almost inevitably end up all in for short-medium stack
                    the way you phrased the question in the OP belies this fact though, and even though its a subtle thing, the way you approach these situations is very important..

                    .if you were not only asking the question after the fact, the phrasing in the OP would have been more, Raise, 3 bet , I have AQQT, whats the best play here? Rather than, well I made this 4 bet, I suppose I have to call? Was is a mistake or not? Why?..etc

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Valor View Post
                      the way you phrased the question in the OP belies this fact though, and even though its a subtle thing, the way you approach these situations is very important..

                      .if you were not only asking the question after the fact, the phrasing in the OP would have been more, Raise, 3 bet , I have AQQT, whats the best play here? Rather than, well I made this 4 bet, I suppose I have to call? Was is a mistake or not? Why?..etc
                      Fair observation but not quite the thought process... it was more like: "I think I should 4bet here... I know that if he shoves then I will have to call... Then he does indeed shove and I know I have to call but I'm not happy because I think I'm behind ... I knew I could end up here because of the 4bet... was there a better alternative?"
                      Last edited by EssEll; 15-12-10, 10:35.

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