Two hands

[Hectorjelly]

Hand 1 - Unknown guy with full stack raises button. I flat call pre with AJs. HU to the flop.

The flop is K93 rainbow (one of my suit). I check, he bets 3, I make it 8.50. He clicks it back and I shove. Good or bad?

Hand 2 - We are 120bbs deep, 4 handed. Villain is a bad regular. Not awful, but a bit of a retard. Stacked off pre with QQ in a spot where he should have folded kings, never mind queens. I've been annoying him recently, I've raised every hand for a while. The other two players are really bad but aren't involved in this hand.

I raise utg with 67s. Villain makes it 5 from the BB, I call.

The flop is 267r. He bets and I call.

Turn is a Queen, giving me a flush draw to go along with my two pair. He bets big and I shove. (Any raise commits me anyway (not that I would fold!)). Good or bad?

[Line Us]

Hand 1, seems fine vs an unknown, should get enough folds for it to be +ev, you could have clicked it back again as well though on the flop.
Hand 2, I always flat again there and leave him fire his river bluffs as alot of river cards will induce a triple barrell on that type of board run off. You'll also stack all his AA/kk/qx type value hands anyway on most rivers.

[AndyFatBastard]

1 - This is just spew vs an unknown
2 - I flat but shove is fine.

[Bubbleking]

Hand 1; I like it. I think he folds everything but the very top of his range and the very top of his range wouldnt be 3betting such a dry flop. I think he has the airball more than AK/KQ. good shove though

Hand 2. Fine. i think he has put in too much to justify folding now when he obviously likes his hand. A lot of river cards could kill your action

[lowkicker]

Am i missing something about hand 1? That's unbelievably bad vs an unknown, it's not like the pot is huge to justify shoving, especially when you say he's very deep. Fair enough he's raising from the BTN pf and you might not give that much respect, so why not just raise then? But he has now 4bet you, this screams strength to me. Can I ask what were you trying to represent?

Hand 2, I'd play it the exact same way, I think big pairs form a good portion of his range here so they're going in, just unfortunate if he hit the set on turn.

[Hectorjelly]

Am i missing something about hand 1? That's unbelievably bad vs an unknown, it's not like the pot is huge to justify shoving, especially when you say he's very deep. Fair enough he's raising from the BTN pf and you might not give that much respect, so why not just raise then? But he has now 5bet you, this screams strength to me. Can I ask what were you trying to represent?

I'm not really trying to represent anything (bar a bad player with a k or a set) but he can't call with nothing (& what he is repping?), alsoI have pretty much the nut nothing

[lowkicker]

What's he repping? AA and AK a lot here, and less times KK coz of his 4bet but as you said he's an unknown so why bother risk it by taking a stab in the dark? Realistically you're hoping he has a pair and can find the fold, but given the action I think you've played it weak so I'd be inclined to call with 1010-QQ if I was him.. On such a dry board, why would you be 5betting a monster like KK/99/33/K9? You wouldn't unless you knew he would call with worse, like AA, AK, KQ, 1010-QQ, but you don't know that, so your play here is ridiculously flawed.

[Bozzer]

Hand 1, seems fine vs an unknown, should get enough folds for it to be +ev, you could have clicked it back again as well though on the flop.
Hand 2, I always flat again there and leave him fire his river bluffs as alot of river cards will induce a triple barrell on that type of board run off. You'll also stack all his AA/kk/qx type value hands anyway on most rivers.

+1.

I prefer CiB in hand 1

[Moneymaker]

1. Don't like it against an unknown. I see the reasoning but how do you know he's not some monkey who felts it with top pair and you're repping even less then he is.

2. I play the same. Sucks if he has QQ but no way can you fold at any point. I might just call and call any river.

[Hectorjelly]

What's he repping? AA and AK a lot here, and less times KK coz of his 4bet but as you said he's an unknown so why bother risk it by taking a stab in the dark? Realistically you're hoping he has a pair and can find the fold, but given the action I think you've played it weak so I'd be inclined to call with 1010-QQ if I was him.. On such a dry board, why would you be 5betting a monster like KK/99/33/K9? You wouldn't unless you knew he would call with worse, like AA, AK, KQ, 1010-QQ, but you don't know that, so your play here is ridiculously flawed.

All of what you say can be applied to his line, more so because I'm out of position. Also, how could he get to that stage with TT, QQ etc? He never has anything like that

[Kie Diddy]

I thinkk ruling out hands is kind of redundant considering the whole point is he's an unknown.
You have valid logic for the shove but not sure I see the point until you get a feel for the guy...

[colquhom]

Fold pre in hand 2 surely

[Bubbleboy]

Hand 1: ??????????????
Key element is that he is unknown,Ridic shove.
AJ is muck.Why not check fold.

Hand 2: Golden.

[Lplated]

Hand 1 - I assume by 'click back', you mean he min raised [assuming because wording implies you shoved on the flop rather than turn].

So, he bets pot on the flop, you make a decent raise, and he's min raised you. In the absence of any info on his style, his move looks strong to me and I think your taking quite a risk shoving OTT.

On a relatively dry flop, your raise to 8.50 polarises your hand to a good K, a set, k,9 or air. Problem is, so does his min raise to 17.

If he's good enough to play a game of 'i think you think', then shoving ott is dangerous, but equally if he's bad enough not to be using those levels of thinking its possibly worse.

Key bit i think is we dont know the villain, so I'm not that keen on the shove tbh.

Hand 2 - I would think of raising the flop sometimes. You raised utg which should say 'strong hand', he's reraised oop anyway saying 'stronger hand'. He should like a low flop so raising his flop bet gets more for your two pair, even where he only has a,k/a,q, he will like his overcards sometimes.

I think shoving turn is fine, sometimes you'll be paying off his set, but most times your two pair is golden here imo. [and even where his queens have hit, you still have flush outs].

[Hectorjelly]

Hand 1 - I assume by 'click back', you mean he min raised [assuming because wording implies you shoved on the flop rather than turn].

So, he bets pot on the flop, you make a decent raise, and he's min raised you. In the absence of any info on his style, his move looks strong to me and I think your taking quite a risk shoving OTT.

On a relatively dry flop, your raise to 8.50 polarises your hand to a good K, a set, k,9 or air. Problem is, so does his min raise to 17.

If he's good enough to play a game of 'i think you think', then shoving ott is dangerous, but equally if he's bad enough not to be using those levels of thinking its possibly worse.

Key bit i think is we dont know the villain, so I'm not that keen on the shove tbh.

I assume you mean OTF (on the flop) rather than OTT. Yes I'm taking a risk by guessing on what level this player is thinking on, but since I have no evidence otherwise I'm happy to assume he isn't crazy.

The problem with his line is it doesn't make any sense, for any value hand. Neither does mine, but he can't bluff call me.

This is why I don't like clicking it back, a certain percentage of the time he is going to put the last bet in with a hand he would have folded to a shove. I think this is more important than the extra money I lose when I run into a set. Anyway I shoved, he folded.

Hand 2 - I would think of raising the flop sometimes. You raised utg which should say 'strong hand', he's reraised oop anyway saying 'stronger hand'. He should like a low flop so raising his flop bet gets more for your two pair, even where he only has a,k/a,q, he will like his overcards sometimes.

I think shoving turn is fine, sometimes you'll be paying off his set, but most times your two pair is golden here imo. [and even where his queens have hit, you still have flush outs].

Its 4 handed so raising utg doesn't really mean much.

Raising flop has the advantage of making it easier to stack an overpair, however he may fold; and I'm also in the good situation of having a much better idea of what his range is than his of mine. For example if the turn pairs the bottom card I'm no longer ahead of an overpair and can play accordingly. Most importantly though calling keeps all his bluffs in.

On the turn you seem to be thinking whether the question shove or fold, just because a shove is better than a fold doesn't mean its the best line. Since I command so much of the deck, as in there are hardly any cards that substantially unimprove my hand, I think calling is better as it keeps all his bluffs in his range and is more likely to get money in against almost all of his range.

In any case I shoved and he folded. I think I really should have called.